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SP2 update, Evil?

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April 14, 2005 6:44:27 PM

After reading today's article titled "SP2 And The Damage Done," I had no choice but to place my first post in the forums. Having been a Microsoft OS user for the last 2 decades, I have to say, I've never encountered any SERIOUS problems such as blue screen, etc. Call me lucky but within my expanded circle of acquantances and friends, I cannot recall ever hearing anyone encountering similar fates. I'm as opposed to monopolized business practice as anyone else, but this article is a bit over the top. Coming from an engineering background and avid computer tinker and user, I'm a strong believer that your computer is like your car, it requires maintainance. I would surmise that the majority of 'blue screens' and OS crashes are due to improper maintenance of virus definitions, security updates, and harddrive defrags, rather than inherent coding flaws. I've been using SP2 since its inception and its worked like a charm. I'm able to use old and new software without problems. With that said, I'm obscessive/compulsive about updating drivers and all my software patches. I do agree with the article that if you're an IT specialist and maintain 100+ units, these new SP2 patches can be cumbersome, but doesn't really apply for the 'average' user like myself.

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April 14, 2005 8:04:48 PM

SP2 is ok IF you install it right after a fresh install of windows. Otherwise it is as evil that they get.

I installed SP2 on an old rig once and more than half my apps and functions stoped working and rip/reinstall was nogo.

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
April 14, 2005 9:13:35 PM

Are you sure updating to SP2 was the sole cause of your system crash? I've updated all 3 computers at home (all of which had been running with older apps for at least 1 year) with no problems.
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April 14, 2005 9:34:39 PM

While I personally have successfully installed SP2 on two home computers, the company I used to work for, with several thousand networked computers, recently decided to revert to Windows 2000 from XP rather than update to SP2. I think that's a pretty significant statement.
April 14, 2005 9:35:32 PM

Never had system crashed, just various 3rd-party apps/functions stopped working. They will only work if I do a clean install of windows then SP2 right after.

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
April 14, 2005 10:10:15 PM

One little bug with SP2 is the drifting mouse. Two systems were "upgraded" with SP2, and at random the cursor begins drifting up and left! It stops when you move the mouse. The fix is to uncheck the "Enhance Pointer Precision" box in the mouse settings in Control Panel.

My co-worker and I have come to the conclusion that this could be caused by faulty rounding code in the fixed-point math used for the mouse ballistics.

Nice one Microsoft!
April 14, 2005 10:22:52 PM

We have four (4) Intel PC's running SP2 now:

2 started with fresh SP2 OEM factory disks;

1 started with a fresh SP1 OEM factory disk,
and was upgraded with the MS SP2 update disk
available free at Office Depot;

1 started with Windows 98/SE, was upgraded
with the MS retail XP/Pro upgrade box, and
then upgraded again with the MS SP2 update disk
from Office Depot.

The 2 which were loaded with fresh SP2 OEM disks
experienced almost no problems: all application software
was installed AFTER XP/Pro was installed and working OK.

One of these two was later upgraded from on-board video,
to a Radeon 9200 AGP card, and it was not stable until
we updated the driver -- by automatically accessing
the MS website. Then, that machine became stable:
we think this problem was due to a Radeon factory
video driver that was not compatible with SP2.

The aging Windows 98/SE machine was the most challenging:
for speed, we had moved that OS to a fast hard drive
wired to a Promise PCI ATA/100 controller. We had an
extra copy of the MS XP/Pro upgrade box laying around,
so we tried migrating directly, with no changes to
the boot partition etc.

At this point, the XP/Pro upgrade box failed, right
at the end: we suspect there was a bug in the install
somewhere, due to our use of a Promise PCI controller
to host the system software.

Testing that theory, we re-set the BIOS to boot from
IDE-0 instead of the PCI controller: then, we started
by re-installing Windows 98/SE. We needed to do this,
because our spare XP/Pro was an UPGRADE version only.

I should add that we re-formatted C: before re-installing
Windows 98/SE, so the latter did not have to worry about
any existing application software.

Then, we installed the XP/Pro UPGRADE retail version,
and to my great surprise, IT INSTALLED PERFECTLY,
with no apparent problems. We then re-loaded all
necessary application software, and that aging machine
(vintage 1997) is now running XP/Pro SP2 perfectly.

One of the application packages we installed was
PowerQuest Partition Magic 8.0: this software
was used to convert all partitions from FAT32 to NTFS
with the correct offsets.

We'll use this older machine as a storage server,
until we can afford to upgrade the motherboard, CPU
and RAM with modern stuff.

In summary, the one major problem we had was most
probably due to our "weird" configuration booting
from a PCI controller on an aging SuperMicro motherboard;
this problem was fixed by re-verting to "vanilla" booting
from IDE0 on that old motherboard.

The other problem was an apparent conflict between
SP2 and the factory driver sold with a Radeon 9200
AGP video card: the MS website automatically updated
the necessary driver, and after that, stability returned.

Another surprise benefit of SP2 is that it fixed a
minor bug in the Gigabit LAN drivers: with SP2
networked to SP2, our Gigabit LAN moves files much
faster, as measured by Windows Task Manager.

We have found SP2 to be quite superior in the area of
Internet security, which is the main reason why we
bothered to upgrade. We do our virus checking manually,
using V-Com's SystemSuite 5, but we have turned on the
Windows XP/Pro firewall on all network connections,
and we can access the Internet and our local LAN
without any apparent security problems.

I don't think it's fair to blame Microsoft for
the existence of so many destructive viruses and
worms on the Internet. Their response was quite
professional and appropriate, given the overall
complexity of the problems they were asked to solve.

Sincerely yours,
/s/ Paul Andrew Mitchell
Webmaster, Supreme Law Library
April 15, 2005 2:47:18 PM

I just realized that I've seen less than 5 BSoD on a Windows XP computer.. I'm one of 3 in my network department and we support over 1500 computers. We've never had a problem with SP2 upgrade from SP1.
I have seen major problems with the upgrade from 98 or 2000.. I have seen a lot of problems with the original SP2, but things are good now.

I highly recommend using SpyBoy S&D with latest defs to clean up any junk on your PC before you even attempt SP2. Also a defrag, remove any temp. files using the Windows tools, and just clean up any junk that doesn't need be there. It's a good time for spring cleaning before you do a major upgrade.
otherwise, it's a gamble.

SP2 is safe and without the problems any more.. Regular maintanence of your computer is good...

Just remember, just because it's the latest, doesn't mean it's the greatest. I don't jump to the newest OS or just on the newest drivers for a short time.. I think I was still using 98 when 2000 came out.. I didn't move from DOS until 98 came out.. I had a 95 computer, but DOS is great.
Let someone else have the headache of figuring out all the problems.. I don't have time to waste to be a beta tester for my computer.
Likewise, I never buy the first year new model of a car. My current vehicle is the 3rd year of the same model and all the problems that plagued the earlier versions are worked out.

Just my 2 cents..

Riser
April 15, 2005 3:49:32 PM

Quote:
then, we started by re-installing Windows 98/SE. We needed to do this, because our spare XP/Pro was an UPGRADE version only.


No, you didn't need to do this. All you had to do is set up XP Pro as usual, then insert the Win 98 CD when prompted.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
April 15, 2005 5:06:30 PM

I installed SP2 - the day the network install d/l was released ... the only thing it did was make my PC run faster and with much more security ... this SP2 crap has been discussed here since last year ... you people need to do some research ... if you know how ...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
April 15, 2005 5:26:14 PM

Consider yourself lucky

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
April 15, 2005 5:58:25 PM

No ... I consider myself smart ...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
April 15, 2005 6:24:37 PM

i do accept that there are cases where it causes in compatibility with some programs, i may have come accross one. i built a computer for a freind last weekend, patched it with everything ms had including sp2. then i went to install an old corporate version of nortons and it blue screened everytime i went to shutdown the computer. heres the funny thing. the same nortons is on my computer with sp2 but it was on my computer BEFORE i installed sp2. the install does tell you before you install it that it has a known compatibility issue with xp (this is before sp2 was even a thought) but it has worked fine on several computers of mine. i havent tested this but its probly the problem. anyway, back to the point, i would say at least 50% of all the problems people are having are due to old drivers or old hardware on their computers. most of which could be resolved by updated drivers or updated software. there are bound to be some cases where a device or piece of software that doesnt work anymore with sp2 installed. but you know what, thats progress. its amazing that a program written 10 years ago can still run on a computer today. its stupid really. just like a car that can no longer pass smog tests, it should be retired or fixed.

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>
April 15, 2005 6:41:48 PM

ROFL

May wanna review my prior post before replying back...

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
April 15, 2005 7:24:29 PM

I read your posts ... what's ur point? That SP2 is a good thing done right ... but it screws up some systems poorly maintained with old software ... perhaps ... I've read enough of SP2 diatribes ... I posted the original download link ...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
April 15, 2005 7:43:08 PM

I've installed SP2 the day it was available.
Installed it on my home pc. No problems encountered.
overclocked my pc, changed screencard, overclocked screencard, .... still no problem.

At my work (IT/Helpdesk) I've installed SP2 in more than 100 pc's. I've downloaded SP2 in English, Dutch and French and placed them on a networkshare. (so we don't have to download these things everytime)
Untill today I have not seen one Pc making problems. In fact, all the users are happy because the popups disappeared.

To be hounest, I found 1 program which did not want to start. The company, who provided the software, said that they haven't found a solution yet. But I did. Rename a file and the problem was over. (Strange, no?)

I recommend SP2.

I use my Computer as a heater, it adds 4°C to the current room temp, really!
April 15, 2005 8:01:56 PM

Poorly maintained with old software....

You just made my point that I conveyed and millions of other IT pros are saying... People that follow microshaft's standards are just mindless lapdogs in microsoft will burn trying to manipulate the indutry in their image... Geesh

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
April 15, 2005 8:26:24 PM

Many thanks: I wasn't aware that was possible.
I usually don't read every manual from cover
to cover, so I appreciate the tip.


Sincerely yours,
/s/ Paul Andrew Mitchell
Webmaster, Supreme Law Library
April 15, 2005 8:42:42 PM

What, a poorly maintained system ... or old, outdated software ... oh, you thought software would last forever ... how the hell do you think the industry sustains it'self ... you don't need to upgrade/update anything ... just keep your old stuff and windows 95 ... and be happy - see how easy that was ...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
April 16, 2005 2:49:31 AM

In over twenty years of using computers of various types, the one constant I have seen besides change is that upgrading anything, expecially an operating system, is likely to cause some kind of problem. However, SP is not an OS upgrade, it is an update to an existing product. It should not break existing other software. It should not break existing hardware drivers. It should not take over control of your computer, as Microsoft seems to want to do, and make decisions for you. It should * ask * you whether you want to have changes made, and it should tell you what it is doing. The one thing Microsoft has done for me with SP2 is guarantee that I will continue to use Linux as my primary operating system, and leave Windows as the OS for my gaming computer only...without SP2 installed.

As for all the comments about "thinking software would last forever", well, some things work fine the way they are, and I refuse to accept being given something with one hand and having something taken away with the other. Especially when the person doing the giving and taking believes they have the right to force me to accept what they are trying to do to * my * computer. When Microsoft pays for my computer and gives me its OS and software for free, then they can have a say in what I do and how I do it; however, if they want my money for software, they had damn well better earn it.
April 16, 2005 3:11:58 AM

SP2 was essentially a new OS ... for the better ...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
April 16, 2005 12:34:44 PM

Quote:
if they want my money for software, they had damn well better earn it.


You mean like offering free security updates and operating system improvements?

No one is forcing you to do anything. Unplug your machine and take up knitting.

I like some of the things MS has been doing lately to protect the rest of us from dillrods that refuse to update or properly protect their operating systems.

Read the licensing agreement you agreed to when you installed it...if you have a problem with anything in it then I suggest you uninstall Windows.


....WW (5.0)
April 18, 2005 3:07:24 PM

I've also been running SP2 since release. I didn't even bother waiting for it to be available on Windows Update; I downloaded the network version and installed it both at work and at home. Absolutely no issues. I've only had one computer give me grief with SP2... but that computer was already having problems.

Nothing is stopping you from switching to Linux. You DO have a choice. The entire reason SP2 was released was due to the multitudes of idiots that did not keep up with security updates. When a virus / worm that exploits a Windows vulnerability is still getting passed around <b>two months</b> after a fix was issued, there is a problem.

Either suck it up and get SP2 or switch to Linux. The choice is yours.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
May 7, 2005 11:27:17 PM

Well J_B gave us his take on SP2, just gotta luv his expression of contempt he displays for this community. Well Mr.Barnes plz take a look out of your lofty citidel and enlighten poor ignorant ol'me as to why I had no probs of ANY sort till I D/Ld SP2....
Its posted under
"Did SP2 kill my games?"

Well actually you are most likely tied up pondering the deeper thoughts of mans existence, After all...you consider yourself 'smart'. But at the risk of becoming a troll, are you Smart enough to know that 'smart' is a relative term :) 
So I ask the huddled masses who lack such an imperious attitude, just what did happen?

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/software/modules.php?nam...


Thanxz 4 the time


If I only knew an 1/8th of what I think I know
May 8, 2005 5:48:46 PM

Sorry, can't help you ... I'm too busy "pondering the deeper thoughts of mans existence" ...


<b>"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."</b> <b>Hunter S. Thompson, <b><i> Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas</i>, 1965.</b>
May 8, 2005 5:57:03 PM

Webuhll Dg_B gabe us his take on SP2, dgust gotta lub his expresshun of contempp he displays f' dis commuty. Webuhll Mr.Barnes plz take a look out of your lofty citidel 'n enliteen poor ignorant ol'me as t' errrr, why I had no probs of ANY sort till I D/Ld SP2.... Its postid undeh "Did SP2 kill my games, duh...uh...?" Webuhll ackual you are most like tiid up pondehigg the, uhhh, deepeh doughts of mans existess, Afteh all...you consideh yourself 'smehts'. But at de risk of becomigg a troll, are you Smehts enough t' know dat 'smehts' is a relatibe tehm :)  So I ask de hubbled masses who lack such an ipehious attitude, uh uh uh, dgust what did happen, duh...uh...? http://www.commuty.tomsharware.com/f'um/showflat.m, duh...uh...?Cat=&Board=soft_winxp&Numbeheh=506168&page=0&biew=collapsed&sb=5 Danxz 4 the, duh uhh, time If I on knew an 1/8d of what I dink I know




<pre><font color=red>A64 3200+ Winchester
DFI Lan Party NF4 Ultra-D
1GB Corsair 4400C25PT
WD740GD, WD2000JB, WD1200JB
ATI X800XL
Dell 2405FPW</pre><p>
May 8, 2005 6:00:43 PM

ROFLMAO ... :lol: 


<b>"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."</b> <b>Hunter S. Thompson, <b><i> Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas</i>, 1965.</b>
May 8, 2005 7:48:32 PM

So thats what an AOL user's post looks like.
Now I get it !!

Well I'm glad I didn't take anybody away from thier mental exercises, cuz my prob has been resolved WooT w00t !!

Was the L8est Nvidia driver, but it was unsigned and that gave SP2 a bit of a brain-fart with certain titles.

But I do stand corrected and have to agree with Mr. barnes in regards to SP2....for the moment

Hope yall can sleep better now
cheers

If I only knew an 1/8th of what I think I know
!