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Dear Bethesda...

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Anonymous
October 28, 2004 8:36:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Dear Bethesda,

When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
consonants in a row.

Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

Thank you for listening.

More about : dear bethesda

Anonymous
October 28, 2004 11:51:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

Heh. Likewise I'm sure.

--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
October 28, 2004 12:28:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your recent feedback. We will be taking your advice and
renaming all of our NPC's "Leslie" - this will eliminate the need to
remember any names at all. Additionally, so as to minimize the need to
remember what they look like, we will make them all identical.

We're also pleased to announce that, with our new FontBlaster2005
rendering engine, we will be able to take advantage of both ATi and
nVidia's latest graphics technology when we render the letters of those
Leslies. Each letter will be lovingly hand-crafted and then traced by
Ray, our in-house letterer before being placed into the exciting new
game that is Elder Scrolls: IV.

Thank you, and please continue purchasing Bethesda products.
Related resources
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 2:18:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I agree with you Opticreep, I complained about this years ago.
I dislike all these long assed names that very few can pronounce
in games too. Especially when you have so many NPCs as
morrowind did. There are tons of easy to remember, easy to
pronounce names out there, but no, Bethesda has to have a
random name generator running to get some of those names
they used... Fatretzulata Kortintuquaipz
lol........


"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 5:11:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> Dear Bethesda,

> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
p'ah, just because you Americans don't like learning new languages. Take an
evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the names and they'll
be easy to remember because they all sound like nearby villages, or that's
what I've found at least.
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 5:11:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

mark foster wrote:
> p'ah, just because you Americans don't like learning new languages.
> Take an evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the
> names and they'll be easy to remember because they all sound like
> nearby villages, or that's what I've found at least.

OMG, you sound just like a linguistics prof I once had, who was convinced
that the only way you could *ever* really understand English language
history was to actually live in Wales for at least a couple of years.

--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 5:30:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"mark foster" <marknospam@jjmotors.co.uk> writes:

> Take an evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the
> names and they'll be easy to remember because they all sound like
> nearby villages,

And by the time you've finished saying the name of the village, we'll
have arrived there.

Nick, with apologies to Black Adder

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 8:15:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"sandtiger" <sandtiger01@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:itmdnUNWHPE4aR3cRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>
> We're also pleased to announce that, with our new FontBlaster2005
> rendering engine, we will be able to take advantage of both ATi and
> nVidia's latest graphics technology when we render the letters of those
> Leslies. Each letter will be lovingly hand-crafted and then traced by
> Ray, our in-house letterer before being placed into the exciting new
> game that is Elder Scrolls: IV.

Ah, I always wondered what ray-traced meant. He must be a busy guy.

Rich
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 8:19:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:clqp2u02fb4@news2.newsguy.com...
> mark foster wrote:
>
> OMG, you sound just like a linguistics prof I once had, who was convinced
> that the only way you could *ever* really understand English language
> history was to actually live in Wales for at least a couple of years.
>
god no, you'll never understand the English language from living in Wales.
Less than half the population now actually speak Welsh fluently but we use
Welsh grammer when speaking in English e.g "town I'm off to now, isn't it".
Maybe if you got a map and started learning Welsh place names it would help,
Llanelli, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch,
Bethesda etc.
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 8:19:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

mark foster wrote:
> god no, you'll never understand the English language from living in
> Wales. Less than half the population now actually speak Welsh
> fluently but we use Welsh grammer when speaking in English e.g "town
> I'm off to now, isn't it". Maybe if you got a map and started
> learning Welsh place names it would help, Llanelli,
> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, Bethesda
> etc.

Heh, it was the prof's notion, not mine.

*My* notion was that if I wanted to learn English etymology what I needed to
do was *study* English etymology--not waste two years trying to decipher
Welsh in Wales. :-)

What I *really* think she was doing was laying the groundwork for a
university-financed extended vacation. :D 
--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 9:58:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
>
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

Dear Bethesda,

Just give us a journal that keeps track of all the individual NPCs
that we've spoken with, what they said and where they're located.
If you do that, we won't need to remember much, it'll all be there
in the journal. You've done a good job with the present journal,
just increase it's capabilities a bit and make it easier to use.
Thanks.
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 11:17:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
possible that you're overstating the issue?

Also, isn't it a bit strange to expect they'd use Vvardenfell naming
conventions in Cyrodiil?

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
October 28, 2004 11:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> Opticreep wrote:
>
>>
>>Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>>then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>>Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>>all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
>
> What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
> possible that you're overstating the issue?
>
> Also, isn't it a bit strange to expect they'd use Vvardenfell naming
> conventions in Cyrodiil?
>

Anything "foreign" is going to be more difficult to remember, certainly,
but not at all unpronounceable in my opinion.

I imagine someone used to names English speakers might consider exotic
would have a hell of a time remembering the bizarre collection of sounds
that is "Samuel" or "Jonathan" etc.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:44:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>

The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
were/are a nightmare.

Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :-)



--
Edward Cowling - London - UK
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:58:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

sandtiger wrote:
>
> Anything "foreign" is going to be more difficult to remember, certainly,
> but not at all unpronounceable in my opinion.

Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the names
in terms of pronunciation or recollection.

> I imagine someone used to names English speakers might consider exotic
> would have a hell of a time remembering the bizarre collection of sounds
> that is "Samuel" or "Jonathan" etc.

Very possibly.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:58:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181797A.F12B582B@comcast.net>...
>
> Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the names
> in terms of pronunciation or recollection.
>


I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.

As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
where (blah) (blah)".

For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
seconds later.

I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
dsyrxoltt or somesuch.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 3:00:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Edward Cowling wrote:
>
> "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> > then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> > Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> > all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
> >
>
> The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
> were/are a nightmare.
>
> Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
> aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :-)

The Daedric ruins had names that almost have a rhythmic quality to them.
Now, the Dwemer ruins...those were a pain. Mzahnch was one of the easier
ones. :) 

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 4:22:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote:

>Opticreep wrote:
>>
>> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
>What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
>possible that you're overstating the issue?
>

More importantly, even if they were unpronouncable, what does it matter?
Morrowind has no speech recognition capability that I'm aware of. :) 
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 7:45:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:

> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

Of course! It would add so much to the atmosphere of a game to cross
swords with the dreaded fighter-mage Mike Johnson, or the Goblin King
Bill Hancock....

Why must all things be dumbed down to accomodate the dimmest amongst us?
(On a similar note, I'm sure that all the Lefavres way back in Brett
Favre's family tree would be appalled to learn that their family name
has morphed into being pronounced "Farve").
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 9:10:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
>
> Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181797A.F12B582B@comcast.net>...
> >
> > Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the names
> > in terms of pronunciation or recollection.
> >
>
> I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
> the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.

Yeah, 'cause names like Caius Cosades, Nibani Maesa, Ra'Virr, and the
like are so impossible to recall.

> As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
> people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
> There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
> quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> where (blah) (blah)".

Like, no one ever remembered the name Addamasartus? Or places like
Falasmaryon?

> For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
> quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
> have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
> having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
> down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
> seconds later.

That's fine, because there aren't any NPCs named like that in Morrowind.

And those that come within a few football fields of being named like
that are named in the Dunmer language. Since the new game will be taking
place in Cyrodiil, you're most likely to see names that more closely
resemble Latin (like Caius Cosades) and not what you see as gibberish.

> I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
> with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
> find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
> However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
> irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
> of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
> wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
> screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
> go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
> dsyrxoltt or somesuch.

I never had this problem, but while I played Morrowind twice, I
apparently didn't play the same game you did.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 12:01:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On 28 Oct 2004 04:36:53 -0700, opticreep@yahoo.com (Opticreep) wrote:

>Dear Bethesda,

I'd like to break in with a different theory:

In my opinion, the character names in Morrowind aren't that difficult
to pronounce and remember (with the exception of the Daedra, but hey,
they're Daedra...) The problem is just that there's so many NPCs that
its impossible to keep them all straight. It wouldn't matter if they
all had 'boring' American (or whatever your culture is) names. John
Smith is easy to remember, until you put him in with Joe Smith, John
Brown, Joe Brown, Greg Smith, Joe Benson, Jane Smith, Jenny Brown, Tom
Jones, etc, etc.

Basically, no matter what names they pick, they're not going to be
easy to remember. The problem isn't the names - its the fact that the
human brain can't keep track of that many 'people' being met all at
once. The best solution would be one already mentioned, make sure
that the game has a good journal and map function so we don't need to
remember all those names, because no matter what they are, we're not
going to remember them anyway...
October 29, 2004 12:40:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:

>
>
> I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
> the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.
>
> As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
> people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
> There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
> quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> where (blah) (blah)".
>
> For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
> quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
> have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
> having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
> down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
> seconds later.
>
> I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
> with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
> find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
> However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
> irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
> of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
> wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
> screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
> go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
> dsyrxoltt or somesuch.


Doesn't the game itself, when talking to npc's about
daedric shrines, describe the names as being those long
unpronouncable names? 'You'll recognize a deadric shrine by
the fact that is a long unpronouncable name'. Or some such.
I don't think they are unpronouncable, but hard to
remember, definitely, especially if you play for a long time
in one sitting and end up w/a bunch of new ones to remember
at once, or if ya come back after a long time away only to
find it hard to remember which was which.
Leo
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:18:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181D09E.7F826A36@comcast.net>...
>
> Yeah, 'cause names like Caius Cosades, Nibani Maesa, Ra'Virr, and the
> like are so impossible to recall.
>
> > There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> > characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side


Exactly what part of the sentence "there are exceptions, of course,
especially when it came to main characters" do you *not* understand?
Your logic is utterly flawed. I never claimed that every single
Morrowind NPCs have names that are impossible to remember. So there's
little point in you flaunting the names of a few famous main
characters.


> > quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> > where (blah) (blah)".
>
> Like, no one ever remembered the name Addamasartus? Or places like
> Falasmaryon?
>

Again, your simple-minded interpretation of my message is
dumbfounding. I never said, nor implied, that no single person has
ever remembered these names. The point was that the names were simply
hard to remember for most people, not IMPOSSIBLE to remember by
everyone. Any person with half a brain could understand what I was
saying, I suspect even *you*.


>
> I never had this problem, but while I played Morrowind twice, I
> apparently didn't play the same game you did.
>

No, apparently you did not. The game plays quite differently when
you're sitting in that high and mighty chair of yours.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:32:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<a1jgd.47447$%k.46848@pd7tw2no>...
>
> Of course! It would add so much to the atmosphere of a game to cross
> swords with the dreaded fighter-mage Mike Johnson, or the Goblin King
> Bill Hancock....
>


Well, you *could* give them names like that if you were a moron.

Alternatively, you could use names that are no less exotic, but still
easy to remember. Names like Dupre, Shamino, Iolo, Minsc, Tarzak,
Frodo, Kulgan, Gandalf, Milamber, and so forth. Too many names that
are too difficult to remember, like those in the Elder Scrolls games,
tend to take away from the immersion factor. IMHO, of course.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 2:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:41817A21.D53298B7@comcast.net...
> Edward Cowling wrote:
> >
> > "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult
American,
> > > then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> > > Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough
with
> > > all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
> > >
> >
> > The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
> > were/are a nightmare.
> >
> > Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
> > aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :-)
>
> The Daedric ruins had names that almost have a rhythmic quality to
them.

I found that also with the names of quite a lot of Ashlander Dunmer -
tending to have long and complicated but eminently pronounceable names.

> Now, the Dwemer ruins...those were a pain. Mzahnch was one of the
easier
> ones. :) 

Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
consonants, and kept pretty secret among the Dwarves (who are also
invariably good at metalwork), in god only knows how many different
universes. Was there ever any reason to suppose Tamriel might be
different?

Jonathan.
October 29, 2004 2:41:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

>
> Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
> to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
> consonants

So Dwarves speak Croat?
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 5:28:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
> to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
> consonants, and kept pretty secret among the Dwarves (who are also
> invariably good at metalwork), in god only knows how many different
> universes. Was there ever any reason to suppose Tamriel might be
> different?

What about "Tamriel isn't Middle Earth"?

Anway, I had no problems whatsoever with almost all Morrowind
names. I liked them because they are, for the most part, exotic
but pronounceable. And for those that were not, well, I never
needed to pronounce them, I only needed to type them occasionally.
I can see how some people may have had difficulties - after all,
from what people tell me I gather I'm unusally good at remembering
exotic words. Simplifying the names in a way would be OK with me -
but please don't anglicize them. The exotic names were a big plus
in Morrowind and added to immersion quite a lot, especially since
NPC interaction, animation and pose didn't.

Werner





>
> Jonathan.
>
>
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 5:55:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

opticreep@yahoo.com (Opticreep) looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Dear Bethesda,
>
>When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
>of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
>to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
>of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
>letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
>consonants in a row.
>
>Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

Why should they limit themselves and curtail the atmosphere of the game
because YOU have a problem.

What's next, you'll want short American style names in every game
regardless of setting, even if it's in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc.

Since you never have to say them out loud, who cares if it's
pronounceable, all you have to do is a pattern match.

Different cultures have different naming conventions and no doubt
"Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" is as understandable to them as "John Smith" is
to you.
Maybe even more so, since unlike "John Smith" there probably aren't
several guys named "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" in the same village/city.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
October 29, 2004 5:55:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Xocyll wrote:

> Maybe even more so, since unlike "John Smith" there probably aren't
> several guys named "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" in the same village/city.

Well, there are in my town, but we took to callin' 'em "Big Deaxythol
Arsthruoxal" and "Little Deaxythol Arsthruoxal."
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 8:58:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:k0u3o01do378g6rukk00r5vuopc1krtgdg@4ax.com:

[snip]
> Basically, no matter what names they pick, they're not going to be
> easy to remember. The problem isn't the names - its the fact that the
> human brain can't keep track of that many 'people' being met all at
> once. The best solution would be one already mentioned, make sure
> that the game has a good journal and map function so we don't need to
> remember all those names, because no matter what they are, we're not
> going to remember them anyway...
>

Back in the good 'ole days, the days of Heart of the Maelstrom, The Bard's
Tale and the Quest of the Avatar, before the era of giga-whatsit-fast
machines and automap, when we played our RPGs on 25 *mega*hertz 16-color
coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been invented yet!) when we
came across somebody or something important,

We

*GASP*

*Wrote* *It* *Down*

;) 
--
~sethra
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 9:46:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Yo

"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410290918.69142469@posting.google.com...

<snipped>

> No, apparently you did not. The game plays quite differently when
> you're sitting in that high and mighty chair of yours.

Ooooooooooooooooooh. Handbags at 20 paces!

;o)

All the best

Fling
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 10:11:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

drocket wrote:
>
> On 28 Oct 2004 04:36:53 -0700, opticreep@yahoo.com (Opticreep) wrote:
>
> >Dear Bethesda,
>
> I'd like to break in with a different theory:
>
> In my opinion, the character names in Morrowind aren't that difficult
> to pronounce and remember (with the exception of the Daedra, but hey,
> they're Daedra...) The problem is just that there's so many NPCs that
> its impossible to keep them all straight. It wouldn't matter if they
> all had 'boring' American (or whatever your culture is) names. John
> Smith is easy to remember, until you put him in with Joe Smith, John
> Brown, Joe Brown, Greg Smith, Joe Benson, Jane Smith, Jenny Brown, Tom
> Jones, etc, etc.
>
> Basically, no matter what names they pick, they're not going to be
> easy to remember. The problem isn't the names - its the fact that the
> human brain can't keep track of that many 'people' being met all at
> once. The best solution would be one already mentioned, make sure
> that the game has a good journal and map function so we don't need to
> remember all those names, because no matter what they are, we're not
> going to remember them anyway...

I actually buy this one more than the other one.

Except for the Daedra names - I think they're just as easy to recall.
It's the Dwemer place names that actually are hard to pronounce due to
an excess of consonants.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 10:12:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > The Daedric ruins had names that almost have a rhythmic quality to
> them.
>
> I found that also with the names of quite a lot of Ashlander Dunmer -
> tending to have long and complicated but eminently pronounceable names.

I think the one derives from the other.

> > Now, the Dwemer ruins...those were a pain. Mzahnch was one of the
> easier
> > ones. :) 
>
> Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
> to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
> consonants, and kept pretty secret among the Dwarves (who are also
> invariably good at metalwork), in god only knows how many different
> universes. Was there ever any reason to suppose Tamriel might be
> different?

Perhaps, although there is a world of difference between Moria and
Mzahnch.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 10:22:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
>
> Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181D09E.7F826A36@comcast.net>...
> >
> > Yeah, 'cause names like Caius Cosades, Nibani Maesa, Ra'Virr, and the
> > like are so impossible to recall.
> >
> > > There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> > > characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
>
> Exactly what part of the sentence "there are exceptions, of course,
> especially when it came to main characters" do you *not* understand?
> Your logic is utterly flawed. I never claimed that every single
> Morrowind NPCs have names that are impossible to remember. So there's
> little point in you flaunting the names of a few famous main
> characters.

I realize that you're just being contrary because you want to have a
point, but. What is so unpronouncable about Adondasi Sadalvel or Athyn
Sarethi? Or Ervesa Romandas? Hannat Zainsunabi?

> > > quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> > > where (blah) (blah)".
> >
> > Like, no one ever remembered the name Addamasartus? Or places like
> > Falasmaryon?
> >
>
> Again, your simple-minded interpretation of my message is
> dumbfounding. I never said, nor implied, that no single person has
> ever remembered these names. The point was that the names were simply
> hard to remember for most people, not IMPOSSIBLE to remember by
> everyone. Any person with half a brain could understand what I was
> saying, I suspect even *you*.

Ooh, descending to ad hominem. You *don't* have a point, you're just
being bitchy.

Why didn't you just say so? Seriously, in all the time that Morrowind
has been out, you're the only person I've seen who bothered to complain
about the names. Clearly, your illiteracy must be catered to over all
else, right?

> >
> > I never had this problem, but while I played Morrowind twice, I
> > apparently didn't play the same game you did.
> >
>
> No, apparently you did not. The game plays quite differently when
> you're sitting in that high and mighty chair of yours.

Well, a few other people posted to say similar things, so it must be a
big high and mighty chair to fit everyone but you.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 10:22:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> Why didn't you just say so? Seriously, in all the time that Morrowind
> has been out, you're the only person I've seen who bothered to
> complain
> about the names. Clearly, your illiteracy must be catered to over all
> else, right?

Uh, well . . . I've never really felt it was worth making a big deal about,
but I think he does kinda have a point there.

Just think about the main character's name(s) in just about any novel. Now
I know there are plenty of exceptions, but at the moment I'm having a hard
time remembering many with more than a three-syllable first name--at least
as the other characters in the book know them. Seems like most only have
one or two syllables.

Wonder why that is?
--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 10:22:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<41828A61.1C6E5F00@comcast.net>...
>
> I realize that you're just being contrary because you want to have a
> point, but. What is so unpronouncable about Adondasi Sadalvel or Athyn
> Sarethi? Or Ervesa Romandas? Hannat Zainsunabi?
>

Try having someone read the words "Adondasi Sadalvel" and "Athyn
Sarethi" today. Try having them say the same words tomorrow from
memory. See if they can pronounce it properly. In practice,
pronunciation and memory go hand-in-hand. It's a little hard to
pronounce a name when I can't remmeber that same name without looking
at it. And yes, Julie, we all know that you can allegedly remember
these names from Morrowind without looking up the spelling on a FAQ.
We believe you. We'll take your word for it. But the rest of us
mere mortals usually look up the spelling for most Morrowind names
first, before typing it on usenet.


>
> Ooh, descending to ad hominem. You *don't* have a point, you're just
> being bitchy.
>

I started the thread as a humorous take on Morrowind's long-winded
names (people don't actually write open letters to Bethesda on the
usenet, y'know). It takes a certain kind of person to nitpick and
flame someone from having made an on-topic but humorous message. That
word you refer to --- "bitch" --- should only be applied to one person
here. And it ain't me.


>
> Well, a few other people posted to say similar things, so it must be a
> big high and mighty chair to fit everyone but you.


Interestingly, in this thread of 35+ messages, you can only recall "a
few other people" that agree with you. So how do you go from that to
having "everyone" but me side with you?


We must've been reading different threads, I guess. The *one* I'm
reading has plenty of people with differing opinions, many saying they
agreed with me, other saying they don't. Apparently, that high and
mighty chair of yours must be letting you selectively omit usenet
messages that run contrary to your narrow-minded nitpickiness.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:02:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Xocyll wrote:
>
> Different cultures have different naming conventions and no doubt
> "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" is as understandable to them as "John Smith" is
> to you.
> Maybe even more so, since unlike "John Smith" there probably aren't
> several guys named "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" in the same village/city.

I think what got me about his complaint was that he couldn't be arsed to
present actual examples of what bothered him, he had to invent some to
exaggerate his point.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:02:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

sethra wrote:
>
>
> Back in the good 'ole days, the days of Heart of the Maelstrom, The Bard's
> Tale and the Quest of the Avatar, before the era of giga-whatsit-fast
> machines and automap, when we played our RPGs on 25 *mega*hertz 16-color
> coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been invented yet!) when we
> came across somebody or something important,
>
> We
>
> *GASP*
>
> *Wrote* *It* *Down*

Heh!

And we made our own maps. Very carefully. On graph paper.

;-)
October 29, 2004 11:02:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Briarroot wrote:
> sethra wrote:
>
>>
>>Back in the good 'ole days, the days of Heart of the Maelstrom, The Bard's
>>Tale and the Quest of the Avatar, before the era of giga-whatsit-fast
>>machines and automap, when we played our RPGs on 25 *mega*hertz 16-color
>>coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been invented yet!) when we
>>came across somebody or something important,
>>
>>We
>>
>>*GASP*
>>
>>*Wrote* *It* *Down*
>
>
> Heh!
>
> And we made our own maps. Very carefully. On graph paper.
>
> ;-)

Ha! In my day, we had to discover Map Making first!

Usually we could just trade something like Pottery for it, though.
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:26:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:clu2ve0qeg@news2.newsguy.com...
> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>> Why didn't you just say so? Seriously, in all the time that Morrowind
>> has been out, you're the only person I've seen who bothered to
>> complain
>> about the names. Clearly, your illiteracy must be catered to over all
>> else, right?
>
> Uh, well . . . I've never really felt it was worth making a big deal
> about, but I think he does kinda have a point there.
>
> Just think about the main character's name(s) in just about any novel.
> Now I know there are plenty of exceptions, but at the moment I'm having a
> hard time remembering many with more than a three-syllable first name--at
> least as the other characters in the book know them. Seems like most only
> have one or two syllables.
>
> Wonder why that is?
> --

I can see Bethesda's stance on this, though. The names of most of the
Imperial characters have Latin(ish) sounding names and much of the character
style is reminiscent of the Roman empire. So if you see a character named
Cadisius Whatshisnameisticus or some-such, it fits with the setting.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 11:26:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

toolstech wrote:
> "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:clu2ve0qeg@news2.newsguy.com...
>> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>>> Why didn't you just say so? Seriously, in all the time that
>>> Morrowind has been out, you're the only person I've seen who bothered to
>>> complain
>>> about the names. Clearly, your illiteracy must be catered to over
>>> all else, right?
>>
>> Uh, well . . . I've never really felt it was worth making a big deal
>> about, but I think he does kinda have a point there.
>>
>> Just think about the main character's name(s) in just about any
>> novel. Now I know there are plenty of exceptions, but at the moment I'm
>> having a hard time remembering many with more than a three-syllable
>> first name--at least as the other characters in the book know them. Seems
>> like most only have one or two syllables.
>>
>> Wonder why that is?
>> --
>
> I can see Bethesda's stance on this, though. The names of most of the
> Imperial characters have Latin(ish) sounding names and much of the
> character style is reminiscent of the Roman empire. So if you see a
> character named Cadisius Whatshisnameisticus or some-such, it fits
> with the setting.

But there are still plenty of "real" Latin names with no more than a couple
of syllables. And probably those that did have the tonguetwisters had much
shorter nicknames.
--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 12:46:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

drocket wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2004 04:36:53 -0700, opticreep@yahoo.com (Opticreep) wrote:
>
>
>>Dear Bethesda,
>
>
> I'd like to break in with a different theory:
>
> In my opinion, the character names in Morrowind aren't that difficult
> to pronounce and remember (with the exception of the Daedra, but hey,
> they're Daedra...) The problem is just that there's so many NPCs that
> its impossible to keep them all straight. It wouldn't matter if they
> all had 'boring' American (or whatever your culture is) names. John
> Smith is easy to remember, until you put him in with Joe Smith, John
> Brown, Joe Brown, Greg Smith, Joe Benson, Jane Smith, Jenny Brown, Tom
> Jones, etc, etc.
>
> Basically, no matter what names they pick, they're not going to be
> easy to remember. The problem isn't the names - its the fact that the
> human brain can't keep track of that many 'people' being met all at
> once. The best solution would be one already mentioned, make sure
> that the game has a good journal and map function so we don't need to
> remember all those names, because no matter what they are, we're not
> going to remember them anyway...
>
iawd
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 5:41:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"sandtiger" <sandtiger01@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n-ydnQ_NbpHZwhzcRVn-iA@comcast.com
> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>> Opticreep wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>>> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>>> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>>> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>>
>>
>> What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
>> possible that you're overstating the issue?
>>
>> Also, isn't it a bit strange to expect they'd use Vvardenfell naming
>> conventions in Cyrodiil?
>>
>
> Anything "foreign" is going to be more difficult to remember,
> certainly, but not at all unpronounceable in my opinion.
>
> I imagine someone used to names English speakers might consider exotic
> would have a hell of a time remembering the bizarre collection of
> sounds that is "Samuel" or "Jonathan" etc.

Well, like the one guy said, he could try Welsh. Or Gaelic. Or better
still, Chinese. If the guy is an American, I'd say he'd really
appreciate Bethesdas choices :) 

For myself, it's just part of the adventure, trying out all the new
names of people and places. I still have to look up how to spell Ald
Runh (sp?) and I've been keeping my stash there for the last 2 1/2
years! :) 
McGrandpa
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 5:43:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410282030.6bb5a736@posting.google.com
> Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<4181797A.F12B582B@comcast.net>...
>>
>> Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the
>> names in terms of pronunciation or recollection.
>>
>
>
> I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
> the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.
>
> As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
> people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
> There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
> quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> where (blah) (blah)".
>
> For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
> quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
> have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
> having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
> down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
> seconds later.
>
> I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
> with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
> find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
> However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
> irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
> of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
> wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
> screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
> go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
> dsyrxoltt or somesuch.

We're all strangers in a strange land. Enjoy the adventure! :) 
McG.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 5:50:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:41817A21.D53298B7@comcast.net
> Edward Cowling wrote:
>>
>> "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>>> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>>> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>>> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>>>
>>
>> The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
>> were/are a nightmare.
>>
>> Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
>> aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :-)
>
> The Daedric ruins had names that almost have a rhythmic quality to
> them. Now, the Dwemer ruins...those were a pain. Mzahnch was one of
> the easier ones. :) 

Ah! Dear Mr. Drunken Mudcrab!
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 6:03:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410290932.374bc888@posting.google.com
> Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:<a1jgd.47447$%k.46848@pd7tw2no>...
>>
>> Of course! It would add so much to the atmosphere of a game to cross
>> swords with the dreaded fighter-mage Mike Johnson, or the Goblin King
>> Bill Hancock....
>>
>
>
> Well, you *could* give them names like that if you were a moron.
>
> Alternatively, you could use names that are no less exotic, but still
> easy to remember. Names like Dupre, Shamino, Iolo, Minsc, Tarzak,
> Frodo, Kulgan, Gandalf, Milamber, and so forth. Too many names that
> are too difficult to remember, like those in the Elder Scrolls games,
> tend to take away from the immersion factor. IMHO, of course.

It looks that it's the rythm of the names/words that's giving you
problems. Morrowind does seem to use a basic rythm throughout.
Then, there's Maik the Liar. Several peoples, and several semblances to
languages, the differences seem distinct. Orcish names in Morrowind
seem similar to what you asked for and gave a few examples to. And the
Elvish and Dwarven names the problems.
Frankly, I like the variety of names, all the differences. Even those I
know I wouldn't pronounce right.
It's a game. It's about a world and its populace, all of which only
exist in imagination of the people who develop and play it. It's far
better than television! It is, to me, as good as a good fantasy
adventure novel.
If Bethesda were to ask a vote on it, I'd say just keep on like you are.
It's great like it is. But I'm only one voice, and millions bought and
play the game.
Still and all, I do understand your irritation with the naming scheme.
McG.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 6:06:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"sethra" <azoblue@myrealboxDOT.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959165A1B5587be83ec93f4a@68.1.17.6
> drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:k0u3o01do378g6rukk00r5vuopc1krtgdg@4ax.com:
>
> [snip]
>> Basically, no matter what names they pick, they're not going to be
>> easy to remember. The problem isn't the names - its the fact that
>> the human brain can't keep track of that many 'people' being met all
>> at once. The best solution would be one already mentioned, make sure
>> that the game has a good journal and map function so we don't need to
>> remember all those names, because no matter what they are, we're not
>> going to remember them anyway...
>>
>
> Back in the good 'ole days, the days of Heart of the Maelstrom, The
> Bard's Tale and the Quest of the Avatar, before the era of
> giga-whatsit-fast machines and automap, when we played our RPGs on 25
> *mega*hertz 16-color coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been
> invented yet!) when we came across somebody or something important,
>
> We
>
> *GASP*
>
> *Wrote* *It* *Down*
>
> ;) 

and drew up and printed out maps ourselves. Passed them around. Yeah,
that was fun too. But Morrowind can have its places where you can go
and just relax and watch the sunset and moons rise :)  And the rain. :) 
User namable saved games are wonderful.
McG.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 6:09:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:418293C1.78E8675F@comcast.net
> Xocyll wrote:
>>
>> Different cultures have different naming conventions and no doubt
>> "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" is as understandable to them as "John Smith"
>> is to you.
>> Maybe even more so, since unlike "John Smith" there probably aren't
>> several guys named "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal" in the same village/city.
>
> I think what got me about his complaint was that he couldn't be arsed
> to present actual examples of what bothered him, he had to invent
> some to exaggerate his point.

Well, it made for some of the most active posting in here in some time
:) 
McG.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 7:24:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<418293C1.78E8675F@comcast.net>...
>
> I think what got me about his complaint was that he couldn't be arsed to
> present actual examples of what bothered him, he had to invent some to
> exaggerate his point.


Well, I would've presented those actual examples of irrememberable
names if I actually did remember them. Don't you love the irony in
that?

Of course, I could try cuting n' pasting names off of a FAQ (as
*certain* people have done), but that wasn't necessary. Even without
specific examples, just about everyone who didn't have a stick up
their arse understood what I meant. Unlike you, they can forgive a
little exagerration in a joke, because they know exagerration and
humor almost always go hand in hand.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 7:49:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Jonathan Ellis" <jonathan@franz-liszt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<clt393$sfv$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
> Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
> to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
> universes. Was there ever any reason to suppose Tamriel might be
> different?
>


Well, like most works of fiction, Tolkien often reserved the long
winded names for peripheral characters that appear only once or twice
in the course of a novel. Main characters have names that are no less
exotic, but are easier to remember. There are plenty of exceptions,
of course, but that's the general pattern for most fantasy fiction.
Maybe if Morrowind used shorter, easier names for *all* quest-related
characters and places (ie Cassius, Ra'Virr, etc) then it wouldn't be a
problem. Long windedness and uniqueness are NOT mutually exclusive.
Names can be exotic and still be easy to remember.
!