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Anonymous
October 30, 2004 2:09:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

chainbreaker wrote:
>
> But there are still plenty of "real" Latin names with no more than a couple
> of syllables. And probably those that did have the tonguetwisters had much
> shorter nicknames.

"Caius Cosades" was a pretty standard Cyrodiilic name in Morrowind. The
polysyballic names are Daedric or Dunmer. That is to say, expecting
non-Dunmer to have Dunmer names is silly, and asking Bethesda to not
give Cyrodiils Morrowindesque names is like asking water to be wet.

None of the Latinesque names were particularly long or "tongue
twisterish", but then, outside some shrine names, none of the Morrowind
names were tongue twisterish, either.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 2:09:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> chainbreaker wrote:
>>
>> But there are still plenty of "real" Latin names with no more than a
>> couple of syllables. And probably those that did have the
>> tonguetwisters had much shorter nicknames.
>
> "Caius Cosades" was a pretty standard Cyrodiilic name in Morrowind.
> The polysyballic names are Daedric or Dunmer. That is to say,
> expecting non-Dunmer to have Dunmer names is silly, and asking
> Bethesda to not
> give Cyrodiils Morrowindesque names is like asking water to be wet.

Oh, I agree that their naming conventions isn't a particularly shattering
problem. And I've already mentioned how I handle names, not just in MW but
anywhere, that I think are a bit much to bite off.

But I do see the point a bit--but IMO that's easily handled by giving the
character in question your own nickname. <shrug>
--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 2:10:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> For myself, it's just part of the adventure, trying out all the new
> names of people and places. I still have to look up how to spell Ald
> Runh (sp?) and I've been keeping my stash there for the last 2 1/2
> years! :) 

Ald'Ruhn. :)  Which is really a corruption of "Old Run," IIRC.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Related resources
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 9:31:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:10:04 GMT, Julie d'Aubigny
<kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote:

>Yeah, 'cause names like Caius Cosades, Nibani Maesa, Ra'Virr, and the
>like are so impossible to recall.

Actually the ones that threw me were places with VERY similar names
like Ainat / Ainab or the Hlervi Ancestral Tomb vs the Hlervu
Ancentral Tomb. Probably the hardest for me to keep straight was
Zaintirari vs Zaintiraris which are two quite different (and
moderately important) places.

The similarity of the two names as opposed to the exoticness of them
in other words.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 9:31:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:58:15 GMT, sethra <azoblue@myrealboxDOT.com>
wrote:

>Back in the good 'ole days, the days of Heart of the Maelstrom, The Bard's
>Tale and the Quest of the Avatar, before the era of giga-whatsit-fast
>machines and automap, when we played our RPGs on 25 *mega*hertz 16-color
>coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been invented yet!) when we
>came across somebody or something important,
>
>We
>
>*GASP*
>
>*Wrote* *It* *Down*
>
>;)

I'm sure I've still got my old maps from Wizardry I somewhere. What I
disliked about that game was that the elevators from levels 1-5 and
5-10 were too easy to access so that in each of my games my characters
got the 5-10 key too early meaning that levels 6-9 didn't get the
attention they probably deserved. I _DID_ play them but mostly I
wanted to get down to the basement to kill Werdna and his hordes which
you were able to do again and again and was a far greater challenge
than the 6-9 monsters.

I remember well the time I got back to the surface having killed
Werdna and having my entire party dead except for one character with
two hit points left...I _really_ felt I ruled that night - certainly
far more than my alchemy induced 27000 strength mage killed Dagoth Ur
in two strokes.
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 11:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4183689C.17A57B5D@comcast.net
> McGrandpa wrote:
>>
>> For myself, it's just part of the adventure, trying out all the new
>> names of people and places. I still have to look up how to spell Ald
>> Runh (sp?) and I've been keeping my stash there for the last 2 1/2
>> years! :) 
>
> Ald'Ruhn. :)  Which is really a corruption of "Old Run," IIRC.

See! You can be an old fart with slipping memory and still enjoy the
game fine :)  Oh I can't wait for Oblivion! Hm...that didn't sound
right...
McG :o \
Anonymous
October 30, 2004 11:45:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:cm020601ogb@news4.newsguy.com
> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>> chainbreaker wrote:
>>>
>>> But there are still plenty of "real" Latin names with no more than a
>>> couple of syllables. And probably those that did have the
>>> tonguetwisters had much shorter nicknames.
>>
>> "Caius Cosades" was a pretty standard Cyrodiilic name in Morrowind.
>> The polysyballic names are Daedric or Dunmer. That is to say,
>> expecting non-Dunmer to have Dunmer names is silly, and asking
>> Bethesda to not
>> give Cyrodiils Morrowindesque names is like asking water to be wet.
>
> Oh, I agree that their naming conventions isn't a particularly
> shattering problem. And I've already mentioned how I handle names,
> not just in MW but anywhere, that I think are a bit much to bite off.
>
> But I do see the point a bit--but IMO that's easily handled by giving
> the character in question your own nickname. <shrug>

Ha! I do that! It's kinda automatic. Ijust think of anyones long or
hard to pronounce name and I come up with a short version. Some RL folk
don't much like that tho.
McG.
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 1:27:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

toolstech scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:

> I can see Bethesda's stance on this, though. The names of most of
> the Imperial characters have Latin(ish) sounding names and much of
> the character style is reminiscent of the Roman empire. So if you
> see a character named Cadisius Whatshisnameisticus or some-such, it
> fits with the setting.

Exactly. I enjoyed the variety of names in Morrowind -- it's fun when a
character tells you to find XYZ and you immediately realize what race
XYY is. Nor did I find the names hard to remember, and from what I
remember of my time on the official forums, neither did most others.
(Some of the shrines/ruins are an exception, but I think they are
*meant* to have weird tongue-twister names to emphasize the alien nature
of the Dwemer and the Daedra and their worshippers.) My guess is that
people who write "that guy who blah blah blah" are often just plan lazy,
the type who can't be arsed to read manuals, take notes or use a forum's
search function.



--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life -- music and
cats."
- Albert Schweitzer
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 1:27:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

drocket scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:

> I'd like to break in with a different theory:
>
> In my opinion, the character names in Morrowind aren't that difficult
> to pronounce and remember (with the exception of the Daedra, but hey,
> they're Daedra...) The problem is just that there's so many NPCs
> that its impossible to keep them all straight.

Hmm. I think you have a point, especially since there's a little NPC
characterization. Most people look the same and say exactly the same
things. Still, I don't think it's much of a feat to at least remember
the faction leaders and other important quest givers, at least not more
than in other games.


--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life -- music and
cats."
- Albert Schweitzer
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 2:08:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:

> Ald'Ruhn. :)  Which is really a corruption of "Old Run," IIRC.

It means "Old Home", actually. "Balmora" is "Stone Wood" and Sadrith
Mora means "Forest of Mushrooms". "Vvardenfell", the name of the island
Morrowind takes place on, is the Dwemer term for "City of the Strong
Shield". All in all, there are about twenty Dunmer or Dwemer words in
the game. I love this kind of attention to detail in worldbuilding. :) 


--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
"Real life, while superior in graphics, lacks a reliable and tested
reload option. It is also somewhat slow on most hardware."
- Magnus Itland on alt.games.elder-scrolls
October 31, 2004 2:26:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:46:36 GMT, "Flingel Bunt" <none@none.none>
wrote:

>Yo
>
>"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:9e1f277e.0410290918.69142469@posting.google.com...
>
><snipped>
>
>> No, apparently you did not. The game plays quite differently when
>> you're sitting in that high and mighty chair of yours.
>
>Ooooooooooooooooooh. Handbags at 20 paces!

<twitch>
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 1:40:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

But they have so many NPC's they can't possibly find normal names for them
all...

"joe~V~3838" <jms2@gbronline.com> wrote in message
news:vpKdnTxoKt0UYh3cRVn-tg@gbronline.com...
I agree with you Opticreep, I complained about this years ago.
I dislike all these long assed names that very few can pronounce
in games too. Especially when you have so many NPCs as
morrowind did. There are tons of easy to remember, easy to
pronounce names out there, but no, Bethesda has to have a
random name generator running to get some of those names
they used... Fatretzulata Kortintuquaipz
lol........


"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 2:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> Dear Bethesda,
>
> Just give us a journal that keeps track of all the individual NPCs
> that we've spoken with, what they said and where they're located.
> If you do that, we won't need to remember much, it'll all be there
> in the journal. You've done a good job with the present journal,
> just increase it's capabilities a bit and make it easier to use.
> Thanks.

I could get behind that idea. Also, another suggestion is to do what a lot
of other games do, and for any character who is unimportant, as in, not
related to any quest, doesn't offer any services, doesn't give you any
information you can't get from everyone else, etc., don't bother naming
them. They got this partially right, by not naming all the Ordinators and
other guards in the various cities, but there's still so many useless extras
that they wasted the time to give names to that it does get a bit confusing.
I mean, if I go into some random cave, and there's a bunch of bandits there
that attack me and I kill them all, I don't need to know what their names
were. I don't need to know the names of every slave I free, or every
peasant and every minor noble in every village. Heck, I really don't need
to know the names of most of the merchants, but I'll live with that. Just
label them as "Bandit" or "Slave" or "Peasant", and that would be enough.
Only give names to the characters that matter. It saves time for the
developpers, and saves frustration for the players.
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 2:19:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

Also, if your game world is as huge and widely populated as this one is, and
you're given a quest that says "Find XXX and make him give me back my
pants"*, it would help if you gave the player even a vague clue where one
might go about finding him.

*An actual quest. There's a guy in the river just south of Gnisis whose
pants were stolen. I've searched every building in town and still can't
seem to find the notorious pants thief. I even found what I assumed to be
his house, as it has the same name, but I had to pick the lock to get in,
and neither him nor the pants were anywhere to be found. I finally decided
that it probably just wasn't worth the effort, as I'd probably get
next-to-nothing for it, like most of the side-quests in the game...
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 2:19:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:19:23 -0500, "Darrel Hoffman" <i.dont@think.so>
wrote:

>Also, if your game world is as huge and widely populated as this one is, and
>you're given a quest that says "Find XXX and make him give me back my
>pants"*, it would help if you gave the player even a vague clue where one
>might go about finding him.

That bugs me, too. There are several quests where you have to go to a
town and locate a certain person and sometimes you are given no clue
as to where that person is. The real problem is that you are not
given the option to ask anyone where they are, either. I miss the
"Where is . . . Person" option in Daggerfall.

>*An actual quest. There's a guy in the river just south of Gnisis whose
>pants were stolen. I've searched every building in town and still can't
>seem to find the notorious pants thief. I even found what I assumed to be
>his house, as it has the same name, but I had to pick the lock to get in,
>and neither him nor the pants were anywhere to be found. I finally decided
>that it probably just wasn't worth the effort, as I'd probably get
>next-to-nothing for it, like most of the side-quests in the game...
>
Actually the guy is walking around outside not far from the river.
Though he can wander pretty far, he is usually somewhere between the
river and the merchants' stalls. You don't get much for the quest --
some Hackle-Lo leaves, I think.
--
Nyctolops
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 2:52:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Darrel Hoffman wrote:
> know the names of most of the merchants, but I'll live with that.
> Just label them as "Bandit" or "Slave" or "Peasant", and that would
> be enough. Only give names to the characters that matter. It saves
> time for the developpers, and saves frustration for the players.

Great idea.

--
chainbreaker
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 3:35:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Matthew Shaw" <matted@[REMOVETHIS]bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:D i3hd.5341$K7.4848@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> But they have so many NPC's they can't possibly find normal names for
> them all...
>

Ahh you mean unlike the 240 million people in the USA
with (mostly) pronounceable names :-)

Funny enough there is a guy at Molag Mar with a really plebby
name like Bill Jones or similar. It made me do a double take.



--

Edward Cowling - London - UK
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 4:27:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

>> Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
>> to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
>> consonants
>
> So Dwarves speak Croat?

Actually Croat (particularly the dalmatian dialect) is the most vocal of all
former Yugoslav languages. It has a definite melodic accent ;-)

Btw. I was recently playing around with an online name generator. My goal
was to simulate the feel of the Shona language spoken in Zimbabwe. Some of
the How about names like this:

(Note that in Shona you pronounce 'sv' as 'sh', and 'zv' is its voiced
counterpart. A,e,i,o,u like in Latin/Spanish).

Zvasembwore
Chimangwisenda
Mungwevisire
Chatebira
Mungoforai
Kutobore
Tavagire
Munotirwenda
Ndivopora
Musekorwai
Mufatidze
Kwatedoranga
Kuzejorwa
Chibukora
Chipikororwa
Chasatirwai
Chanabidzai
Chimopisire
Vasowidzire
Musabisenda
Kutinabe
Zvagofirenda
Chaduma
Tingopabe
Tideporai
Ndasvinga
Vanegwai
Chapuka
Tavekire
Tsvajude
Tsvakwopai
Chizide
Mufosa
Charafidze
Chabangwise
Vakege
Vawure
Tabeweshe
Tamugora
Tigwinorai
Ndapinge
Chajokwa
Ndisafai
Chagome
Chinatabe
Tigwasai
Zvamopanga
Kuwapore
Tividai
Ndatifanga
Muvakwa
Ndabosvire
Vawapwa
Kudimanga
Tamojire
Zvaferanga
Chigere
Vamofai
Tadima
Chakiborai
Zvapoma
Kutepe
Kusvingwa
Tsvamuda
Kwafarire
Zvajupirwai
Vadubwai
Kwadisva
Kunagwai
Tsvavekirwa
Tirofise
Mutuvirai
Tizafenda
Vatunge
Kunudabe
Tivegidza
Tasaga
Zvajogwe
Mugwesire
Kukwazvirai
Tinaja
Chifasirwa
Ndazana
Ndimanwa
Tigomisa
Chawikorora
Kwarasai
Tikanisa
Tifankwa
Chatuve
Chisiridze
Zvasembwa
Vawasai
Kwawaranga
Mugifai
Ndisoka
Tibankwira
Kufegai
Tadonkwa
Tingwape
Tazovire
Zvabuka
Ndizegwe
Kusurai
Tanumenda
Ndingapira
Tibuzvanga
Zvasifai
Kugwosve
Chisoda
Zvanegwisai
Chisingwai
Vadarwa
Zvabasire
Chiwaneshe
Chizinge
Chibezve
Kumedenda
Tagewanga
Chikuda
Kwarewai
Zvaneme
Tsvavanise
Timankwire
Chizabe
Ndavoga
Kumifanga
Chidede
Chakasenda
Chabaneshe
Ndivarabe
Tasvugai
Kwasakanga
Tsvamite
Titunge
Vajewe
Kuroja
Chikozvirire
Chinevabe
Chiwenkwai
Timadenda
Vapuja
Chasvikwai
Mufena
Chavewanga
Murigwai
Kwasvuma
Chiwowe
Chakwife
Tamasvidzwe
Kuriwe
Tamozvisa
Tibakidza
Kugwewai
Chigasire
Chakava
Chaguridzai
Tapesire
Chizigorai
Tafobai
Tsvadara
Kujapanga
Chimenabe
Tingwovore
Kupodire
Vaneme
Tavedai
Vakogwa
Kwabate
Chiwereshe
Tinkwisorwai
Tsvatungwe
Chajamisai
Chabera
Ndasverai
Kuzokai
Musirenda
Chimakwa
Zvajanwenda
Tameme

That's all folks!

Szczepan Holyszewski
(pronounce THAT!)
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 8:10:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Edward Cowling" <ec015g7081@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9_4hd.20199$cn.7729@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> "Matthew Shaw" <matted@[REMOVETHIS]bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:D i3hd.5341$K7.4848@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> But they have so many NPC's they can't possibly find normal names for
>> them all...
>>
>
> Ahh you mean unlike the 240 million people in the USA
> with (mostly) pronounceable names :-)
>
> Funny enough there is a guy at Molag Mar with a really plebby
> name like Bill Jones or similar. It made me do a double take.

Hey, what about Gentleman Jim, he's in there! That's the one that woke
me up :) 
McG.
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 9:44:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:35:17 GMT, "Edward Cowling"
<ec015g7081@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Ahh you mean unlike the 240 million people in the USA
>with (mostly) pronounceable names :-)

And all unique, yes? Oh, wait...

Seriously, do you really want to have to figure out which one of 5
John Smiths you're supposed to talk to in any one given town? It
would certainly be more realistic, but from a gameplay perspective, it
would drive me crazy...
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 10:31:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Darrel Hoffman wrote:
>
> *An actual quest. There's a guy in the river just south of Gnisis whose
> pants were stolen. I've searched every building in town and still can't
> seem to find the notorious pants thief. I even found what I assumed to be
> his house, as it has the same name, but I had to pick the lock to get in,
> and neither him nor the pants were anywhere to be found. I finally decided
> that it probably just wasn't worth the effort, as I'd probably get
> next-to-nothing for it, like most of the side-quests in the game...

Hainab stole his pants, and Hainab's not in any building. I found him
wandering around near the silt strider.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
October 31, 2004 10:31:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

McGrandpa wrote:
>
> "Edward Cowling" <ec015g7081@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:9_4hd.20199$cn.7729@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> > "Matthew Shaw" <matted@[REMOVETHIS]bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> > news:D i3hd.5341$K7.4848@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> But they have so many NPC's they can't possibly find normal names for
> >> them all...
> >>
> >
> > Ahh you mean unlike the 240 million people in the USA
> > with (mostly) pronounceable names :-)
> >
> > Funny enough there is a guy at Molag Mar with a really plebby
> > name like Bill Jones or similar. It made me do a double take.
>
> Hey, what about Gentleman Jim, he's in there! That's the one that woke
> me up :) 

Gentleman Jim Stacey is great. :) 

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 12:33:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:

> Try having someone read the words "Adondasi Sadalvel" and "Athyn
> Sarethi" today. Try having them say the same words tomorrow from
> memory. See if they can pronounce it properly.

Try having someone read the names of two random "real life" people and
then have them say the same words tomorrow. 99% of people won't even
remember anything vaguely about the names. What's your point again?
--

-Bill
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 12:41:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Alan wrote:

> Then there are neighborhoods in the US with street names like Blackberry Ln, Blackberry
> Cir, Blackberry Pl, Blackberry Av, and Blackberry St all within a few blocks of each other.
> Throw in the E W N S variants and you've got quite a maze of twisty little passages, all
> alike. What's a FedEx delivery person to do?

Get fricking confused. I live on White Bridge Lane which was built off
of what used to be White Bridge Road before they tore down the actual
White Bridge and built a new bridge a mile thataway. They renamed the
White Bridge Road near me to 125th Street and the bit of it up the road
a ways to 19th Avenue and I forget what the bit on the other side of the
river is named. And the road over the new bridge is now White Bridge
Road although the bridge is anything but white.

And over in town there is a 1st Street NW and NE and SW and SE and
there's a 1st Avenue NW and NE and SW and SE.
--

-Bill
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 12:44:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny wrote:

> Darrel Hoffman wrote:
>
>>*An actual quest. There's a guy in the river just south of Gnisis whose
>>pants were stolen. I've searched every building in town and still can't
>>seem to find the notorious pants thief. I even found what I assumed to be
>>his house, as it has the same name, but I had to pick the lock to get in,
>>and neither him nor the pants were anywhere to be found. I finally decided
>>that it probably just wasn't worth the effort, as I'd probably get
>>next-to-nothing for it, like most of the side-quests in the game...
>
>
> Hainab stole his pants, and Hainab's not in any building. I found him
> wandering around near the silt strider.
>

About 100 feet from the guy in the river actually, probably less.
--

-Bill
Anonymous
November 1, 2004 9:40:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> chainbreaker wrote:
>
>>But there are still plenty of "real" Latin names with no more than a couple
>>of syllables. And probably those that did have the tonguetwisters had much
>>shorter nicknames.
>
>
> "Caius Cosades" was a pretty standard Cyrodiilic name in Morrowind. The
> polysyballic names are Daedric or Dunmer. That is to say, expecting
> non-Dunmer to have Dunmer names is silly, and asking Bethesda to not
> give Cyrodiils Morrowindesque names is like asking water to be wet.

I had difficulty with the Dunmer/Daedric/Dwemer names as well. While
they certainly were pronounceable, I found them very hard to remember
without writing down.

Having the different cultures of Tamriel have different types of names
is internally consistent. Having one culture choose names that are
extremely hard for English speakers to remember - well, maybe that's
"realistic", but it can be very frustrating for the player.

b*
November 1, 2004 12:21:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Bill Seurer wrote:

> And over in town there is a 1st Street NW and NE and SW and SE and
> there's a 1st Avenue NW and NE and SW and SE.

This, in most towns, is usually done in a way that's very
organized actually. All streets are east/west, all avenues
are north/south, w/'blvd's', 'place' and others for more
weird type roads/directions.

Same w/the NW, NE, SW, and SE ya mention, usually
indicating the quadrant of the town the street is in -
everything north of x is 'whatever st. N', and at point 'x'
the numbers reset (so yet another 1st street, but this being
the first street north of point x is '1st st. N'),
everything west of z is 'whatever avenue W' and again the
numbers reset (so yet another 1st ave, but this one being
1st ave W). You don't even really need to know where point
x and z are (and sometimes rather than points, a natural or
artificial barrier will be used, such as a river or freeway).

Once you know this you can find anyone's house or any place
of business by simply having an address, even in areas
you've never been and w/out having consulted a map.
Assuming they've properly used this system.

Of course, there are the occasional towns that don't adhere
to this system which is real annoying. And even w/those
that do, there's named streets 'white bridge street N.' -
its a street so still east/west, but is it the first or the
8th or 50th street north of point x? Ya don't know. So ya
pick an avenue and drive north of point X for you don't know
how long till ya come across it.

And of course there are cities that adhere to the system,
but have unique oddities/exceptions, such as my city of
Seattle (at yesler, suddenly everything is at an angle to
everything north of it. And its all because when the city
was originally being platted out of the wilderness by 3
people, the one doing the southern part was *drunk*, and for
some reason they just kept it the way he did it anyhow).
Another oddity in seattle that,this time, is shared by many
other places is - one way streets. Sure ya know by the
address right where to go, but once ya get there ya find it
kinda fun to get right in front of the building as ya never
seem to be able to turn the direction ya want to turn
because the one way streets are always going the *wrong*
way, hehe.

Now, do cities in video games use such an organized method
for their streets? Probably not, though I do remember a mud
once that did.
Leo
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 1:24:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4181D09E.7F826A36@comcast.net...
> Opticreep wrote:

>> go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
>> dsyrxoltt or somesuch.

I don't remember any names with Aztec or Mayan roots in the game...
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 3:18:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"sethra" <azoblue@myrealboxDOT.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959165A1B5587be83ec93f4a@68.1.17.6...
> drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in

> coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been invented yet!) when we
> came across somebody or something important,
>
> We
>
> *GASP*
>
> *Wrote* *It* *Down*

Not to mention the reams and reams of graph paper spent on meticulously
drawing out maps of dungeons so we could find the way out again... Or back
in if the location was important...
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 7:21:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

To each his (or her) own....

The names didn't bother me at all, in fact I kind of liked the way
they did it. Anyway, I always keep a written journal handy when
role-playing and there is the in-game journal for that, too. Ever
been to a foreign country? Or, Hawaii even? Try pronouncing, or
remembering those long crazy, all-consonant Hawaiian road names,
especially those that are abbreviated! I was just as confused there
as I've ever been in Morrowind.

To me, there are other more puzzling design decisions in the game,
than the naming conventions. Although, not nearly as many as there
were in Daggerfall. DF almost seemed to be designed/programmed by a
group of people who never talked to each other.

Anode
*** Yes, I'm positive! ***


Leo <Anonymous@Anonymous.com> wrote in message news:<henhd.4549$pY6.1921@trnddc04>...
> Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> > And over in town there is a 1st Street NW and NE and SW and SE and
> > there's a 1st Avenue NW and NE and SW and SE.
>
> This, in most towns, is usually done in a way that's very
> organized actually. All streets are east/west, all avenues
> are north/south, w/'blvd's', 'place' and others for more
> weird type roads/directions.
>
> Same w/the NW, NE, SW, and SE ya mention, usually
> indicating the quadrant of the town the street is in -
> everything north of x is 'whatever st. N', and at point 'x'
> the numbers reset (so yet another 1st street, but this being
> the first street north of point x is '1st st. N'),
> everything west of z is 'whatever avenue W' and again the
> numbers reset (so yet another 1st ave, but this one being
> 1st ave W). You don't even really need to know where point
> x and z are (and sometimes rather than points, a natural or
> artificial barrier will be used, such as a river or freeway).
>
> Once you know this you can find anyone's house or any place
> of business by simply having an address, even in areas
> you've never been and w/out having consulted a map.
> Assuming they've properly used this system.
>
> Of course, there are the occasional towns that don't adhere
> to this system which is real annoying. And even w/those
> that do, there's named streets 'white bridge street N.' -
> its a street so still east/west, but is it the first or the
> 8th or 50th street north of point x? Ya don't know. So ya
> pick an avenue and drive north of point X for you don't know
> how long till ya come across it.
>
> And of course there are cities that adhere to the system,
> but have unique oddities/exceptions, such as my city of
> Seattle (at yesler, suddenly everything is at an angle to
> everything north of it. And its all because when the city
> was originally being platted out of the wilderness by 3
> people, the one doing the southern part was *drunk*, and for
> some reason they just kept it the way he did it anyhow).
> Another oddity in seattle that,this time, is shared by many
> other places is - one way streets. Sure ya know by the
> address right where to go, but once ya get there ya find it
> kinda fun to get right in front of the building as ya never
> seem to be able to turn the direction ya want to turn
> because the one way streets are always going the *wrong*
> way, hehe.
>
> Now, do cities in video games use such an organized method
> for their streets? Probably not, though I do remember a mud
> once that did.
> Leo
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 10:58:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Paul Fedorenko wrote:
> "sethra" <azoblue@myrealboxDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns959165A1B5587be83ec93f4a@68.1.17.6...
>> drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in
>
>> coal-burning computers (electricity hadn't been invented yet!) when
>> we came across somebody or something important,
>>
>> We
>>
>> *GASP*
>>
>> *Wrote* *It* *Down*
>
> Not to mention the reams and reams of graph paper spent on
> meticulously drawing out maps of dungeons so we could find the way
> out again... Or back in if the location was important...


Yeah, and I hated those days too, may they be lost forever. Blah.

I always felt that the main reason most of that stuff was there was simply
to artificially make the game last longer.

You run out of decent content?

No problem--just add a couple of mazes. Yuck.

Very few games did mazes "right" IMO--one that did was Lands of Lore. Great
game, that.

--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 10:54:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

"Szczepan Holyszewski" <rulatir@wp.pl> skrev i meddelelsen
news:cL5hd.47073$z77.27582@news.chello.at:

> Szczepan Holyszewski
> (pronounce THAT!)

Well - Stefan? :-)

--
"We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they
who need public cures for their private ails." Eric Hoffer
Med venlig hilsen
Georg
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 9:16:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> Or, Hawaii even? Try pronouncing, or
> remembering those long crazy, all-consonant Hawaiian road names,
> especially those that are abbreviated!

Aren't most Hawaiian words made of mostly vowels, not consonants?
Anonymous
November 14, 2004 6:35:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Darrel Hoffman wrote:
>>Or, Hawaii even? Try pronouncing, or
>>remembering those long crazy, all-consonant Hawaiian road names,
>>especially those that are abbreviated!
>
>
> Aren't most Hawaiian words made of mostly vowels, not consonants?

Dredging up my vague memories from phonology class, I think that
Hawaiian syllables are all either vowel or constant-vowel, with a very
short list of them to choose from. If I recall correctly, it is
phonetically one of the simplest languages in the world.

MSH
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 7:23:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Opticreep wrote:
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

While I am an American myself, I really don't see why you think the
names should cater to Americans.
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 7:28:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

mark foster wrote:
> "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
>
>>Dear Bethesda,
>
>
>>Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>>then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>>Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>>all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>>
>
> p'ah, just because you Americans don't like learning new languages. Take an
> evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the names and they'll
> be easy to remember because they all sound like nearby villages, or that's
> what I've found at least.
>
>

LOL, Although my ancestors were from Wales, I haven't dared attempt
Welsh. I have tried to teach myself Gaelic. Not an easy task. I have
found Japanese easier to learn. :) 
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 7:30:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

sandtiger wrote:
> Opticreep wrote:
>
>> Dear Bethesda,
>>
>> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
>> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
>> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
>> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
>> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
>> consonants in a row.
>>
>> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>>
>> Thank you for listening.
>
>
> Dear Valued Customer,
>
> Thank you for your recent feedback. We will be taking your advice and
> renaming all of our NPC's "Leslie" - this will eliminate the need to
> remember any names at all. Additionally, so as to minimize the need to
> remember what they look like, we will make them all identical.
>
> We're also pleased to announce that, with our new FontBlaster2005
> rendering engine, we will be able to take advantage of both ATi and
> nVidia's latest graphics technology when we render the letters of those
> Leslies. Each letter will be lovingly hand-crafted and then traced by
> Ray, our in-house letterer before being placed into the exciting new
> game that is Elder Scrolls: IV.
>
> Thank you, and please continue purchasing Bethesda products.

LOL! Makes me want to rush out and buy it. :) 
Anonymous
November 19, 2004 7:33:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Edward Cowling wrote:
> "Matthew Shaw" <matted@[REMOVETHIS]bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:D i3hd.5341$K7.4848@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>But they have so many NPC's they can't possibly find normal names for
>>them all...
>>
>
>
> Ahh you mean unlike the 240 million people in the USA
> with (mostly) pronounceable names :-)
>
> Funny enough there is a guy at Molag Mar with a really plebby
> name like Bill Jones or similar. It made me do a double take.
>
>
>

We may have 240 million unique names in the USA...Heck, 140 million are
probably John or James Smith. :) 
November 22, 2004 4:12:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Darrel Hoffman" <i.dont@think.so> skrev i en meddelelse
news:Cf6dnYONX8fpkRjcRVn-hg@giganews.com...
> > Dear Bethesda,
> >
> > Just give us a journal that keeps track of all the individual NPCs
> > that we've spoken with, what they said and where they're located.
> > If you do that, we won't need to remember much, it'll all be there
> > in the journal. You've done a good job with the present journal,
> > just increase it's capabilities a bit and make it easier to use.
> > Thanks.
>
> I could get behind that idea. Also, another suggestion is to do what a
lot
> of other games do, and for any character who is unimportant, as in, not
> related to any quest, doesn't offer any services, doesn't give you any
> information you can't get from everyone else, etc., don't bother naming
> them. They got this partially right, by not naming all the Ordinators
and
> other guards in the various cities, but there's still so many useless
extras
> that they wasted the time to give names to that it does get a bit
confusing.
> I mean, if I go into some random cave, and there's a bunch of bandits
there
> that attack me and I kill them all, I don't need to know what their
names
> were. I don't need to know the names of every slave I free, or every
> peasant and every minor noble in every village. Heck, I really don't
need
> to know the names of most of the merchants, but I'll live with that.
Just
> label them as "Bandit" or "Slave" or "Peasant", and that would be
enough.
> Only give names to the characters that matter. It saves time for the
> developpers, and saves frustration for the players.
>
>

You might get used to the idea, because Oblivion will very possibly have
even more individual names. It add to the real-world feeling.

merlin
November 22, 2004 4:19:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Werner Arend" <nefar@arcor.de> skrev i en meddelelse
news:clt9p8$lrf$1@news1.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de...
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> >
> > Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely
difficult
> > to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
> > consonants, and kept pretty secret among the Dwarves (who are also
> > invariably good at metalwork), in god only knows how many different
> > universes. Was there ever any reason to suppose Tamriel might be
> > different?
>
> What about "Tamriel isn't Middle Earth"?
>
> Anway, I had no problems whatsoever with almost all Morrowind
> names. I liked them because they are, for the most part, exotic
> but pronounceable. And for those that were not, well, I never
> needed to pronounce them, I only needed to type them occasionally.
> I can see how some people may have had difficulties - after all,
> from what people tell me I gather I'm unusally good at remembering
> exotic words. Simplifying the names in a way would be OK with me -
> but please don't anglicize them. The exotic names were a big plus
> in Morrowind and added to immersion quite a lot, especially since
> NPC interaction, animation and pose didn't.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Jonathan.
> >
> >

I haven't had cause to remember any name yet, let alone pronounce it.
I very seldom pay attention to the names of the npc,s I tallk to anyway.
And if I do need to keep them apart, I remember the location and not
their name

merlin
November 22, 2004 4:23:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:iECgd.12970$lM1.46@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9e1f277e.0410290932.374bc888@posting.google.com
> > Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<a1jgd.47447$%k.46848@pd7tw2no>...
> >>
> >> Of course! It would add so much to the atmosphere of a game to cross
> >> swords with the dreaded fighter-mage Mike Johnson, or the Goblin King
> >> Bill Hancock....
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well, you *could* give them names like that if you were a moron.
> >
> > Alternatively, you could use names that are no less exotic, but still
> > easy to remember. Names like Dupre, Shamino, Iolo, Minsc, Tarzak,
> > Frodo, Kulgan, Gandalf, Milamber, and so forth. Too many names that
> > are too difficult to remember, like those in the Elder Scrolls games,
> > tend to take away from the immersion factor. IMHO, of course.
>
> It looks that it's the rythm of the names/words that's giving you
> problems. Morrowind does seem to use a basic rythm throughout.
> Then, there's Maik the Liar. Several peoples, and several semblances to
> languages, the differences seem distinct. Orcish names in Morrowind
> seem similar to what you asked for and gave a few examples to. And the
> Elvish and Dwarven names the problems.
> Frankly, I like the variety of names, all the differences. Even those I
> know I wouldn't pronounce right.
> It's a game. It's about a world and its populace, all of which only
> exist in imagination of the people who develop and play it. It's far
> better than television! It is, to me, as good as a good fantasy
> adventure novel.
> If Bethesda were to ask a vote on it, I'd say just keep on like you are.
> It's great like it is. But I'm only one voice, and millions bought and
> play the game.
> Still and all, I do understand your irritation with the naming scheme.
> McG.
>
>

If you need company, I am all behind you there

merlin
November 22, 2004 4:34:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Sarah Jaernecke" <nightfire.udic@web.de> skrev i en meddelelse
news:8il6o05qfkvga8tobvlh6cbbhv3fhqfo09@4ax.com...
> drocket scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:
>
> > I'd like to break in with a different theory:
> >
> > In my opinion, the character names in Morrowind aren't that difficult
> > to pronounce and remember (with the exception of the Daedra, but hey,
> > they're Daedra...) The problem is just that there's so many NPCs
> > that its impossible to keep them all straight.
>
> Hmm. I think you have a point, especially since there's a little NPC
> characterization. Most people look the same and say exactly the same
> things. Still, I don't think it's much of a feat to at least remember
> the faction leaders and other important quest givers, at least not more
> than in other games.
>
>
> --
> Sarah Jaernecke
> Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
> "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life -- music and
> cats."
> - Albert Schweitzer

I am curious. Have you at any time had a problem with progressing in a
quest because you couldn't pronounce the questgivers name, or because
you had forgotten it? Remembering their location, which they never leave,
is good enough for me.
There will be other, more disconcerting problems in Oblivion. Most
npc's will have a schedule of their own. Which means, that they will
not always be 'at home' when you need them, so you have to search
for them. I think, remembering or pronouncing their names will be
the least of our problems then

merlin
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 5:27:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Todd Carnes <tcarnes@tds.net> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>mark foster wrote:
>> "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
>>
>>>Dear Bethesda,
>>
>>
>>>Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>>>then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>>>Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>>>all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>>>
>>
>> p'ah, just because you Americans don't like learning new languages. Take an
>> evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the names and they'll
>> be easy to remember because they all sound like nearby villages, or that's
>> what I've found at least.
>>
>>
>
>LOL, Although my ancestors were from Wales, I haven't dared attempt
>Welsh. I have tried to teach myself Gaelic. Not an easy task. I have
>found Japanese easier to learn. :) 

It's funny that you mention Gaelic and Japanese together.
A while back I heard a demo recording of a song in Gaelic (O Ro Se Do
Bheata Bhaile by Cruachan.)
Maybe it's just the tone of voice and the rhythm the singer was using,
but it sounded Japanese to me (like on an Anime soundtrack.)

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
November 24, 2004 12:57:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Merlin scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:

> I am curious. Have you at any time had a problem with progressing
> in a quest because you couldn't pronounce the questgivers name, or
> because you had forgotten it?

Nope. I have a pretty good memory for such things ... in games, at least
.... I always have to think for a second or three to remember the last
name of one of our neighboring families. :p  Besides, there's the
journal, and a thing called "taking notes".

> Remembering their location, which they never leave, is good enough
> for me. There will be other, more disconcerting problems in Oblivion. Most
> npc's will have a schedule of their own. Which means, that they will
> not always be 'at home' when you need them, so you have to search
> for them.

Good! The more "alive" a game is, the better. I really enjoyed KotOR,
but in many ways it's utterly static, dead and boring. It's just a game.
The old Ultimas, however, created a dynamic, unique world. I grew up
with those games and others with similar features, and have missed them
in the newer games.

Oblivion looks promising. I'd better hold off upgrading my rig for
awhile or I'll have to upgrade *again* when it comes out. ;) 


--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
"Pre-menstrual syndrome: The five days a month when women act the way
men act all the time."
- Robert Heinlein
Anonymous
November 25, 2004 1:56:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Merlin wrote:
>
> There will be other, more disconcerting problems in Oblivion. Most
> npc's will have a schedule of their own. Which means, that they will
> not always be 'at home' when you need them, so you have to search
> for them. I think, remembering or pronouncing their names will be
> the least of our problems then

I think that's a good thing personally, and adds to the realism. I'm
running the NPCSchedules mod in Morrowind to add that functionality in
atm.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 8:13:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Pete MC <nomorespam@youbastids.com> wrote in message news:<41A5BA61.6ACD3D11@youbastids.com>...
> Merlin wrote:
> >
> > There will be other, more disconcerting problems in Oblivion. Most
> > npc's will have a schedule of their own. Which means, that they will
> > not always be 'at home' when you need them, so you have to search
> > for them. I think, remembering or pronouncing their names will be
> > the least of our problems then
>
> I think that's a good thing personally, and adds to the realism. I'm
> running the NPCSchedules mod in Morrowind to add that functionality in
> atm.

Yes, well, about the 108th time you have to wander around looking for
an NPC, you will get tired of this.

I've already done it 108 times in other games and am already tired of
it.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 4:36:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

DeAnn wrote:
>
> Pete MC <nomorespam@youbastids.com> wrote in message news:<41A5BA61.6ACD3D11@youbastids.com>...
> > Merlin wrote:
> > >
> > > There will be other, more disconcerting problems in Oblivion. Most
> > > npc's will have a schedule of their own. Which means, that they will
> > > not always be 'at home' when you need them, so you have to search
> > > for them. I think, remembering or pronouncing their names will be
> > > the least of our problems then
> >
> > I think that's a good thing personally, and adds to the realism. I'm
> > running the NPCSchedules mod in Morrowind to add that functionality in
> > atm.
>
> Yes, well, about the 108th time you have to wander around looking for
> an NPC, you will get tired of this.
>
> I've already done it 108 times in other games and am already tired of
> it.

Nah, I prefer it. Anyway, if I'm in a rush there's always "placeatpc"
November 26, 2004 7:45:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

DeAnn wrote:
> Pete MC <nomorespam@youbastids.com> wrote in message news:<41A5BA61.6ACD3D11@youbastids.com>...
>
>>Merlin wrote:
>>
>>> There will be other, more disconcerting problems in Oblivion. Most
>>> npc's will have a schedule of their own. Which means, that they will
>>> not always be 'at home' when you need them, so you have to search
>>> for them. I think, remembering or pronouncing their names will be
>>> the least of our problems then
>>
>>I think that's a good thing personally, and adds to the realism. I'm
>>running the NPCSchedules mod in Morrowind to add that functionality in
>>atm.
>
>
> Yes, well, about the 108th time you have to wander around looking for
> an NPC, you will get tired of this.
>
> I've already done it 108 times in other games and am already tired of
> it.


So maybe they need to extend the reality by being able to ask the NPC's
friends and neighbours where they are? Or, as you imply, have them stay
in one place.
Anonymous
November 26, 2004 7:45:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

> So maybe they need to extend the reality by being able to ask the NPC's
> friends and neighbours where they are? Or, as you imply, have them stay
> in one place.

That would be really helpful, actually. I'm really sick of missions where
somebody says "Find XXX and get him to give me back my YYY" or something
like that, and they only give you a hopelessly vague clue where the
character can be found. It's even worse when it's an escort mission, and
you have to bring somebody to find somebody else, but the person you're
escorting has no idea where they are, and will just follow you around
forever until you find them. (BTW, never agree to do an escort mission when
you're already escorting somebody else. It really screws up the AI.) I had
one mission where I found this woman in a Daedric ruin somewhere, and you
had to escort her back to her husband, and the only thing she said was "He's
east of here.", without giving the slightest clue how FAR east he was. (And
it was VERY far.) I kept thinking I'd missed him, because I walked for so
far without finding him. (Which was especially tedious because the stupid
woman kept getting lost and wandering all over the place instead of
following me the way she's supposed to. They really need to fix that.) My
character's Speed attribute is so high that I had to take off my Boots of
Blinding Speed and walk instead of running in order not to keep losing her
every 5 seconds. I finally told her to wait somewhere, placed a marker on
the map so I could find her again, put my boots back on and searched at full
running speed. Even then it took ages to find the guy, and when I did, it
gave me a quest success entry, even though I hadn't actually reuinited the
couple. (She was miles back where I left her, but when I went back she
still thanked me for bringing them together, and then proceeded to just sit
around there forever instead of actually going back to the guy. She waits
there still, but I got my quest success, so I'm satisfied.)
November 26, 2004 9:34:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

"Pete MC" <nomorespam@youbastids.com> wrote in message
news:41A73179.ECCFD6C1@youbastids.com...
> DeAnn wrote:
>> Yes, well, about the 108th time you have to wander around looking for
>> an NPC, you will get tired of this.
>>
>> I've already done it 108 times in other games and am already tired of
>> it.
>
> Nah, I prefer it. Anyway, if I'm in a rush there's always "placeatpc"

I sort of agree with DeAnn. As long as the NPC schedules aren't buggy then
it might work out. But if they're buggy in any way, it could turn out to be
a nightmare. I read a short article about Oblivion in Computer Games in
which Todd Howard stated that they've already had to turn down the AI a
notch because:

1. NPCs were buying up all the goods in town
2. Guards were starting to arrest each other.

It sounds funny, but if they don't get the NPC schedules and AI right, it
could ruin the game. Between NPCs that are up 24 hours a day or a screwed
up game, I'll take the first, though I'm hoping they'll have worked out all
the kinks by the time it ships.
!