What is wrong with Intel???

[igottaknife]

These guys at intel are friggin stupidity champions. They had the P3 with PC100/PC133, it was ok no one complained, then they went to P3 with RDRAM and no one was too excited, then the P4 comes with RDRAM and every one isn't too thrilled, then for some unknown reason they pair the P3 with DDR (Maybe good for the Tualatin later, but cummon), and now the record for Intels dumbest move is to put PC-133 in the P4 based machines. OK OK this is by far the best reason why I ain't buying an Intel based machine anytime soon. The question that eats at me is, what about the P4 and DDR?!?!? I mean they took a step back instead of one forward. DDR is cheap as hell, why don't they use it for the P4??

Your Signature Sucks

 

[stonerboy]

Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but Intel didn't develop a DDR chipset for the P3. It was a third party vendor. PC-133 was/is being developed for the P4 for those who want a cheaper platform and that don't require the performance of RDRAM. DDR for the P4 is scheduled to work with the new P4 (Northwood).

"These guys at intel are friggin stupidity champions"

I would like to see you develop a microprocessor better than the engineers at Intel?

 

[Crashman]

Your name is obvious stonerboy, as Intel has great engineers but poor maketing strategy. There marketing strategy is indeed "stupid".

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[stonerboy]

LOL, considering their market share and the amount of money they have made and are making, I would consider their marketing strategy as spectacular.

 

[Crashman]

Spectacular? A LOT of high end users do not know that much about what goes on INSIDE their machines. Now say you bought a P4 system from Dell (as many high-end users do, Dell carries bath high and low end computers), then plugged it in and found it to be specatacularly slow compared to your old Athlon system, and as slow as your PIII. What would you think of Intel? How would you rate the P4?
Or, say your a typical customer and you want something a little faster that you won't have to upgrade for a LONG TIME. YOur using a P233MMX and thinking "Hey, it was state of the art and went 5 years, I'll get state of the art again and go another 5." So you open up a consumer review mag like Cunsumer Reports. Inside it shows a comparison in which an Athlon system is 50% faster than a P4 system and several hundred dollars cheaper. Being your typical ignoramous, you wouls have accepted it if it was a LITTLE slower, because you are conviced that Intel is the way to go, but 50% is JUST ENOUGH to convince you that the P4 is garbage so you go with the Athlon.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[lhgpoobaa]

like PC vendors cutting costs on the P4 by equipping it with speedy PC600 ram and a TNT2 graphics card?

i wonder what intel will try next?
PC66? EDO?
or better yet... i bet RAMBUS will make intel cripple the DDR chipset...somehow
i can just see that happening soooo much!
thats how! i got it... fixing the system bus to what it is now (100Mhz) and equipping it with the slower PC1600 DDR.

i bet you a years supply of my Hamster poo that im right

My Hamster doesnt like sarcasm. He may very well bite you in your hard to reach places!

 

[stonerboy]

If you want to talk about "high end" systems, then there are applications where Intel rules and where AMD rules. To simply say the AMD rules the high end market is ignorance. We have bench marked both Intel and AMD machines at my work doing stress analysis on aircraft parts and the Intel machines (which happen to be Dell dual 933 xeons with RDRAM) completely destroy AMD machines.

"Athlon system is 50% faster than a P4 system " lol, where are you pulling that from. Looking at the latest benchmarks on the I845, looks like the P4 and Athlon are neck to neck (on the 850).

 

[stonerboy]

"like PC vendors cutting costs on the P4 by equipping it with speedy PC600 ram and a TNT2 graphics card?"

I haven't seen Intel sale a P4 with a TnT2????? I have seen Dell do it but not Intel.

"i wonder what intel will try next?"

maybe they will develop a technology and sale it to a clone knock off like AMD.....oh wait, they already did that. Sorry, my bad.

 

[kaz]

Why would Intel expect anyone to buy a crippled product with absolutely no upgrade path?
Why would you pay for a product like this when an AMD 1.4Ghz will offer much higher performance and the possibility of upgrading, and the SIS and nVidia chipsets are still to come.

 

[Guest]

It seems Intel employed some managers from digital.

 

[igottaknife]

Well they couldn't play in my field as I couldn't in thiers but any idiot can see that they should latch on to DDR. I forgot that VIA were the ones to put DDR on P3 boards which is still a dumb idea though, unless the tualatin will benefit.

Your Signature Sucks

 

[igottaknife]

oh I forgot to ask what the dual xeon went up against that showed how poor AMD is. Cuz when I do FEA I see my 1.4 T-bird pulling away from my old boss's P4 1.7 in Mech desktop 4

Your Signature Sucks

 

[FatBurger]

I haven't seen Intel sale a P4 with a TnT2????? I have seen Dell do it but not Intel.

INTEL DOESN'T SELL COMPUTERS, EINTSTEIN!!

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My Athlon can beat your Ferrari off the line.

 

[Guest]

Yeah stonerboy read a book.

! Member of the Intel Triple Threat w/ Fugger and AMDmeltdown !

 

[Guest]

This is obviously in response to Dell and other OEMS wanting a very cheap P4. You'll have to pour through the specs to find the PC133 instead of RDRAM. Hell, they aren't touting P4 with RAMBUS now, so who will notice. People who pay attention to Toms and Anand or Pc-Mag may know it's a lame deal, but how many people are we really talking about. Most are buying the processor!, the rest of the machine doesn't really matter except the size of the hard drive and size of the monitor.
Go to DELL right now!

Featured System:
Intel® Pentium®  4 processor at 1.3Ghz
40GB1 Hard Drive
Choose a FREE DVD Upgrade or $150 mail-in rebate! Click here for details
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2 lines about the computer (more below admittedly, but not laid out for the avg. joe to determine what's good or bad) and the rest promo!

RAMBUS, PC133 who cares??

This was a pretty smart move to get P4s into the hands of people or businesses that feel like its time for that computer upgrade.

Once P4s get out there more, RAMBUS will be used as a step up to get more margin out of it. P3s will replace the celeron.

AMD might remain the great alternative, but still not so obviously better to keep everyone talking about it like they did 6 months ago. Being cheaper actually fits with an image of not being as good as Chipzilla.

 

[khha4113]

"like <b>PC vendors</b> cutting costs on the P4 by equipping it with speedy PC600 ram and a TNT2 graphics card?"

I haven't seen Intel sale a P4 with a TnT2????? I have seen Dell do it but not Intel.

Of course you haven't because <font color=blue>INTEL</font color=blue> is not a <b>PC Vendor</b>!

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[stonerboy]

ok, maybe you guys should read though the post carefully.........

"Of course you haven't because INTEL is not a PC Vendor!"

THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

igottaknife was implying that Intel sells crippled machines with TnT2 cards, my point was the Intel does not but Dell does. Therefore you cannot say Intel is stupid for something that Dell does. I know Intel doesn't sale computers.

 

[stonerboy]

see above post

 

[Guest]

Regardless of intel-ligence(or lack thereof) survival, market share and profit will ultimately determine the outcome. Business that can't make rational decisions will fail. Isn't that the way capitalism is supposed to work? At any rate, kudo's to Tom's Hardware for having the brains to report honestly what they think.

Bill R

 

[hmg57]

LOL, who needs a marketing strategy when you're alone on the market ? Intel has been losing part of its market share for a few years and let me tell you that the Brookdale won't reverse the momentum. DDR is the way to go man !!!

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair...

 

[Crashman]

The 50% came from speculation that by the time this board gets reviewed, AMD will have a chip of mathching speed, and that the reviewed AMD would have DDR while the P4 had SDRAM. Since companies like Consumer Reports uses low end testing, the AMD at an equal clock speed with DDR could potentially be 50% faster in those benchmarks.
Also, for all you other guys, Intel DOES sell computers, it's just that we don't see them. They do sell low end Commercial PC's with a processor, motherboard, RAM, case, and integrated graphics. A few large venders repackage them as complete units. Ocasionally they pop up on sites like Compgeeks.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[stonerboy]

"AMD at an equal clock speed with DDR could potentially be 50% faster in those benchmarks."

Since we are talking about what could be and what potential a chip "might" have, then hey, I guess the P4 could potentially be 150% faster than an AMD right? I mean, who knows. You are basing your info. on complete speculation and no real data. Therefore it is useless information.

 

[Gog]

Is he? do a bit of digging and you'll find benchmarks for P4 1.4 GHz and AMD 1.4 GHz Athlons, which do you think are quicker? Clock for clock the Athlon blows it away.

Every PC I've owned since my first 286 has been Intel but right here and now they don't have the performance of AMD chips and are also being strangled by RAMBUS. When I get my next PC in the course of the next couple of months there's a very high probaility it'll be AMD. The price difference in RAM alone makes AMD a better proposition AMD with 512M of DDR SDRAM or P4 with 128M 800M RDRAM, not a difficult choice is it?

P4's will still sell because
a) they have been market leader for so long and people go for a brand
b) a high % of PC's are bought from stores by people with no PC knowledge, advised by shop assistants with little or no PC knowledge.

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Look at the size of that thing!

 

[Guest]

I find myself questioning Intel's business decisions more and more these days, although I must admit that I still prefer their products over AMD's.

There is a word that isn't used very often on this site, as this site is more geared towards performance. The word I am talking about is stability.

While I will admit that AMD based platforms tend to out perform Intel based platforms on a clock-for-clock basis, the performance gain is not worth the price paid in downtime due to instability in the chipsets found on the motherboards.

Intel based chipsets on motherboards, specifically the BX chipset and the i815e chipset, are rock solid.

I don't fault the AMD processor - it is a superior product in many instances. However, until a chipset comes out that is time-tested like the BX and the i815, I will ALWAYS choose Intel over AMD. VIA? While they make decent performing chipsets that are very price competitive (much like AMD), I don't trust them very much.. at least not enough to hinge my job on them.

The very word "stability" is the reason Intel retains a strong market share. Look at these very forums - there are more problems related to AMD based platforms than Intel based platforms. That may be because this is an AMD friendly website, hence a higher population of AMD users may post here... but it also might be because AMD platforms are inferior in terms of stability.

Anyway... until AMD gets the monkey off their back that their platforms are unstable, I will not buy one, nor will I allow my company to purchase them.

-Supa