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blue screen on cold start

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  • Blue Screen
  • Windows
Last response: in Windows 2000/NT
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April 25, 2005 8:04:40 AM

Hi!

I recently had a problem with my win 2k pro system , which is fully up to date (sp4, all patches etc)

I have blue screens after cold start.
There are three cycling message errors
=> K_MODE EXCEPTION
=> PAGE FAULT not in page area
=> NTFS file system

Following these errors, I thought it was a hardware problem but it's strange because after 3 restarts, all is ok!
I can restart many times (completely stop or restart) and it's ok. However, if I wait at least 1 hour, the problem is back again!

my pc is the following:
P4P800 E deluxe
P4 3.0ghz C
1go DDR PC3200, 3-3-8 Kingston (2*256+512)
creative live player 1024 soundcard
leadtek 5900xt 128mo graphic card
1 maxtor hard drive, 8mo cache(120go)
1 western digital hard driver,2mo cache (80 go)

The lastest noticeable stuff:
new installation of a mouse (logitech mx 510) => that's why I tried to reinstall it (properly like it's said in their manual)
update of macaffee viruscan (but I really think that it would be too strange)

I planned to reinstall all the stuff next week-end because I suppose it's not hardware related but windows and I would like to install windows xp home instead (which I never opened and preferred to install my dare windows 2k pro from my previous pc).

However, if somebody has an idea, (and to avoid to reinstall an OS for nothing) it would be great :) 

More about : blue screen cold start

April 25, 2005 8:07:42 AM

I forgot to mention it : of course there is no stuff in the event logs and the K_MODE exception appeared one time when windows started

All the other blue screens appear between the windows 2k logo and the prompt login
April 25, 2005 2:43:17 PM

Your PC will be idle for an hour, without you doing anything, and it will crash?

Temperature ok on the motherboard? Any noises from your hard drive?

Check your temps in Bios if you can, or get a program that will monitor it from there.

Check add/remove programs for anything that is unneeded. It's also possible that a recent Hot Fix is causing this problem.

A program to clean your registry might not be a bad idea either.

Lots of stuff you could do.. but check the temps first.

Riser
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April 25, 2005 11:02:55 PM

it doesn't seem to be temperature (when i play, no pb)
i tried with removing my new logitech mouse and it seemed to be better at the beginning but the problem occurs sometimes..

i scanned my pc with aboutbuster, trend online, mcaffee,.. nothing found (I thought about a virus)

do you think it's possible that my windows became instable?
I would like to try to install windows xp home which i never opened in its box... maybe it could be nice... what do you think??

for details, temperature are 44°C for CPU and 33° for motherboard
April 25, 2005 11:06:53 PM

in fact, i would like to know if you think that it's better to use windows 2k pro or windows xp home for a home pc.

At work, we would never use it but for home... is it enough stable??
April 26, 2005 1:03:00 PM

I'd use the Windows XP Home over Win2k Pro. The pro is basically for corporate/enterprise business types. There is a reason they're making Home and it's for home users..
Win2k is a great OS but WinXP builds on that experience and throws in some fancy stuff that makes it a worthwhile upgrade.

It's possible something caused your OS to become unstable. I'd say in cases like this when you have a problem and you can't figure out what it is, reinstall. Otherwise that problem can come back later if something changes on your PC, plus you might have a bunch of band-aid type fixes that didn't work but are still there.. it's getting messy basically, so a reinstall would probably just suit you better.
With XP, you can create restore points for system files and you can actually use the backup program to backup your system to another partition. You might want to have a 2-5GB partition and backup your system to that. You should be able to pull a restore over your OS I believe. If not, I think it should overwrite every file it can which could save you from reinstalling. haven't fully messed with it yet, but it's a possibility.

Riser
April 27, 2005 2:45:33 AM

I had this same problem with cold boots. It was a defragmented HD. Run defragmentation on your HD. See if this helps.
April 27, 2005 1:51:19 PM

You know what.. you're right. It is a hard drive that needs defragged. Page File errors normally mean the page file is fragmented.

I fix this all the time at work by defragging.. heh.

Riser
April 27, 2005 8:21:42 PM

Don't ya mean 'fragmented'?

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April 28, 2005 3:53:00 AM

Yes. I got ahead of myself. :-)
April 28, 2005 8:30:17 AM

for the memory, i doubt about it: i have the 3ddr which have the same settings/properties but i have 2x256 mo +1x512 mo.
All are kingston 3-3-8, and an hour test (i didn't wait for it entirely) with memtest86 => 0 error


moreover, my config didn't change for months and the problem appeared recently

for the defrag , my pc was often defrag but i think i have the solution!

it seems that my primary hdd is down => i tried to reinstall and i have many copy errors of the file during the first part of install and once i got also a problem with the format tool of windows install.

however i am surprised that SMART didn't see anything if it's the disk and before the reinstall, i made some stuff with checkdisk and no damaged cluster was found...

thinks it's possible that it's motherboard for example?
for the hard drive, i shopped online a 120go western so when i will get it, i will try again to reinstall...

I hope that it's not motherboard (or CPU) but do you think it's possible?

I saw on windows 2k support page that K_MODE exceptions are cpu/motherboard/memory related but I suspect that this explanation is generic and if my primary hard drive went crazy, maybe it could explain the stuff
April 28, 2005 5:13:03 PM

My system was running fine for awhile, then it just suddently started happening. Once I login to Windows, after a few blue screens, the system would run fine. After defragging the disk, my system worked flawlessly. I think the HD takes some time to warm up. If HD is spinning fast enough it will overcome the fragmented files or maybe you have a HD that is starting to go on you.
April 28, 2005 5:50:42 PM

Hard drive spinning fast enough to over come a fragmented drive?? I must be out of touch with things because you sound crazy to me. 5,400 RPMs, 7,200RPM, 10k, 15k..
It doesn't just spin and need to reach a certain speed, or the max speed, to hit that spot and skip over it..

As far as HD warming up.. yeah I've heard some people say it works, I've heard a lot say it makes no difference.. I've heard of a people putting their computers in freezers with dehumidifiers to keep them old..

I think you might want to brush up on the simple mechanics of a hard drive before you try passing that kind of odd stuff along.

Now, in the past I have fixed hard drive problems by putting them in a freezer bag and storing them in the freezer over night. This tends to work with HDs that are making a loud clicking.. but it doesn't repair the drive, it'll give you a good amount of time to pull any needed files off the drive.
May 2, 2005 8:24:58 AM

I should receive my new hard drive today or tomorrow, so I will tell you if the problem is still present after a reinstallation + new hard drive (hope not because it could be some other hardware stuff)
May 2, 2005 8:09:08 PM

I don't get any errors with memtest86. All I know is after I defrag my disk, I never got another blue screen. I am not exactly sure why a fragmented disk during cold boots causes a blue screen to appear. I am only thinking outloud and guessing as to why it could happen.
May 4, 2005 11:54:52 PM

i didn't receive my new hard drive yet...(postal efficiency in france is incredible.)

however I tried to install windows xp home on it
it's very very strange, maybe can you confirm me if it's normal:
1. I had many reading errors when trying to install it with my PX 716 A dvd drive, so I put an old DVD LG drive, loaded bios default and now, the copy of the files works... but only if I format completely my boot partition when I want to install.

I noticed that when I plug a USB keyboard and a USB mouse, my pc doesn't start (can't see even the bios logo)

it's ok if I plug a PS2 keyboard and a USB mouse.

so, now, it's better (further than before) but it didn't succeed completely yet.

In fact, I succeed to launch the installation of windows but it freezes randomly when detecting/installing new hardware/peripherals. The furthest was network detection.
I tried again with disabling firewire, onboard lan in the bios but it freezed before.

3 or 4 times I also got a nice error but it was after a freezed install => windows says "restarting installation" or something like that =>> blue screen : page fault not in page area, another time it was "the system component cannot be installed" and twice, just a popup with "uncoverable error".

I would like to know if there are recommandation for the install!! (disabling stuff like onboard lan, onboard firewire or forcing some basic UDMA settings)

other point: if the installation freezed, is it useless to try to continue the installation (reboot and let it windows try itself) or is it better to format ?

is it also possible that it's hardware related? if yes, do you know soft that I could use (boot cd or other else) to check?

it's making me crazy and killing my spare time :-(
i think i will get no other choice to send back my pc to the shop and try to see if it's motherboard/processor or something else
May 5, 2005 10:30:59 AM

i have a antec SLK3700 box, with a antec smartpower 350W
i tried again to install windows 10 minutes ago and I got error when formating my first partition et many copy errors... so I am afraid that it could be a problem on the hard drive and/or on the motherboard IDE controller...
May 5, 2005 1:05:33 PM

It sounds like a motherboard problem.. If you have another PC, try updating to the newest firmware on your mobo.. or look at the past updates and see what they correct. Sometimes they put out updates to fix stupid thing and inturn create new problems. You might want to revert back one or two firmwares.

If you're having problems installing Windows.. it's not Windows screwing up. It's your hardware. While I'd like to say it's your hard drive.. I'm going to say your motherboard is the culprit.

Your hard drive will give you problems formating and stuff.. but with the amount of problems you're having, I'll bet it's the motherboard having some kind of problem.

It's autodetecting the hard drive right? You didn't try to configure the HD yourself in bios?:) 

Reset BIOS to fail-safe.. you could always check to see if your north/southbridges are over heating. The northbridge should have a heat sink or fan on it, the southbridge probably has nothing on it.. But if it's really hot, almost too hot to touch, you might have a problem with it. Or, it might just burn you, but you'll at least know it's bad. :) 

I doubt it's a memory problem.. doubt it's the power supply.

1) Motherboard
2) Hard drive.

We'll know once you get that hard drive though...

Riser
May 5, 2005 3:51:09 PM

i have updated to the last bios which seems to correct some stuff with usb... why not?

It's currently running for new install(format step)
we'll see!

argh it's better than dallas with infinite episodes :-)
May 5, 2005 4:03:21 PM

copy error at 9% :-(

i try another stuff: try to copy the windows cd locally on another fat32 partition and try to launch the install from there...we'll see!
May 5, 2005 4:49:55 PM

not so clever... installation not like win98 (as I made when I was young, copy locally) and cannot launch the install

but I successfully copied all the stuff on an old FAT 32 go partition. so does it mean that my motherboard could be in good health...

seems that you are right, we have to wait the new hard drive for the next episode!
May 6, 2005 8:37:06 AM

received my hard drive today... I will try this weekend and will update my state but I suspect really the mobo :-(
May 6, 2005 12:53:42 PM

Wait.. why are you trying to install it on FAT32 and not NTFS?
That probably isn't causing the problem.. but that's a little odd unless you're trying to do something else.

You might want to make a small boot partition... 5MB C: drive, Fat32, do a D: drive with a larger amount and install with NTFS.. and use another partition if you have anything that you want to run on FAT32.\

That's a pain.. but fill me in on why you want to use FAT32 instead of NTFS?
May 7, 2005 9:59:05 AM

no no I use NTFS but with on old boot cd which only works with FAT32 partitions, I tried to copy windows xp stuff on it but it was useless (manual copy not with the install)

by the way, i tried this morning (it's 11:48AM in France now) and the new hard drive is nice but doesn't correct my pb :-(

I have the same: copy errors between 5 and 10% (not the same file at each try)

I tried with my PX 716A DVD writer connected alone
I tried with my old LG DVD reader connected with the plextor

Is it possible that it's incompatibility for install? (need to find a basic cd rom drive?) or shall I modify UDMA settings (force to PIO mode for ex)??? At the moment, everything is by default. (AUTO)

Very strange also: when I disconnected the alim of the LG DVD drive (which was still connected with the DMA cable), I had a nice freeze of the IDE detection and also a "Overclocking detected message. press F2 to load setup default"
So I disconnected the DMA cable, restarted and went into the setup menu and the temp were ok (43°C / 35 °C for CPU/mobo)

hmmm I really suspect the mobo now and I will go the shop next weekend. (I promised my wife to spare 1 hour maximum on the PC this weekend... )

Whatever, thanks all for your answers and your help, especially for Riser :) 

I will update you next week (I said it was like Dallas :)  )

nice week and weekend for everybody
May 25, 2005 10:51:51 PM

the shop where i bought my pc found what was wrong:
the problem was due to the three DDR rams! it seems that they were not working very well even if they were all Kingston!

maybe I got a poor serie (I bought them about in the same time)

now I have two 512MO@2.5 Corsair 3200 DDR in dual channel mode and it works very well :-)

I am quite for sure that my memory wasn't working properly since the beginning because my system is now far more effecient and really faster than in these last months (before the blue screens) =>> maybe some the chips were not working properly and it was slower but not stucking all the time

however, I can confirm you that when you can't copy the file s during windows installation, there are heavy chances that it's linked to memory!!
May 25, 2005 10:54:33 PM

other stuff that now works and wasn't working very well before: dvd burning!

not the plextor dvd burner works really well => buffer doesn't go under 96% and burnproof is not used anymore (even with 12x DVD burning). before the blue screen period, it was making "up and go", so it was using burn proof about 140 times per DVD burning (at 12x)
May 26, 2005 1:47:44 PM

You have a dual channel motherboard but you were running 3 chips? That never goes around good.. dual channel means you have 2 chips in 2 slots.. probably 4 slots for the memory.. you should always have 2 chips at least when using a dual channel motherboard..

if you do otherwise it causes your memory to perform slower and can cause problems..

and when using dual channel you need to buy your memory at the same time so you get the memory clocks to be the closest possible.. if you bought memory at 2 different times.. they might be identical but really the clocks speed will differ with each batch... which will eventually over long enough running times or heavy loads, will cause problems.
May 26, 2005 11:42:03 PM

I recognize that I didn't listen and was sure that it was not DDR because it was Kingston, the CAS latencies were the same and no error with MemTest but I didn't try with MemTest for each memory module (test with the 3 in the same time) so my test was not relevant.

for the fact of putting 3 ddr module for a dual channel mobo, the shop guy also told me that it was possible to work properly but not recommended...in fact, it told me that it was stupid :-)

for the future I will not be so sure about memory
no better test to change them by other modules to check!
May 26, 2005 11:44:56 PM

wusy: to sum up, you merit your "Honorary Master of THGC" title :-)
!