Can Oblivion be as good as Morrowind?

Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.

Thoughts?
48 answers Last reply
More about oblivion good morrowind
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    DeAnn wrote:
    > I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    > different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    >
    > Thoughts?
    >

    Personally, I would like it if they returned to the Arena and Daggerfall
    way of doing things. I dislike the way that almost All of the artifacts
    of the Empire are available in one small area, that obtaining them is
    trivial, and that once you have them, you have them forever. In Arena
    obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also obtaining a
    full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You could not go
    into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go to a
    very large number of stores buying it piece by piece.
    The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but that isn't enough. There
    needs to be randomness so when you play you don't automatically go to
    tomb X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved having to find the
    rumors of someone who may know something about an artifact. Then having
    to find the map to the actual location of the artifact. It could take
    hours of playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes. And you had
    no idea what artifacts, if any, you could find.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:LNcGe.503848$cg1.176670@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    > In Arena obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also
    > obtaining a full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You could
    > not go into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go to
    > a very large number of stores buying it piece by piece.

    That's one thing that wasn't so great about Morrowind. Part way through the
    game, you can practically ignore loot because there's so much of it.

    > The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but that isn't enough. There
    > needs to be randomness so when you play you don't automatically go to tomb
    > X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved having to find the rumors
    > of someone who may know something about an artifact. Then having to find
    > the map to the actual location of the artifact. It could take hours of
    > playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes. And you had no idea what
    > artifacts, if any, you could find.

    A certain degree of randomness would be nice. Bethesda tends to recreate
    the wheel with each game based on comments about the previous one. Usually,
    some things are improved and others are worsened. Daggerfall players
    complained that the dungeons were too random (a valid complaint) and that
    magic was too overpowering (another valid complaint). So with Morrowind,
    they cut down on randomness and gimped magic. Now the pendulum will swing
    back a little in Oblivion.

    Can Oblivion be as good as or better than Morrowind? Yes--I hope it is. I
    love Morrowind, but there's room for improvement.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:15:07 GMT, Michael W. Ryder
    <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

    > DeAnn wrote:
    >> I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    >> lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    >> all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    >> peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    >> example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    >> different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    >>
    >> Thoughts?
    >>
    >
    > Personally, I would like it if they returned to the Arena and Daggerfall
    > way of doing things. I dislike the way that almost All of the artifacts
    > of the Empire are available in one small area, that obtaining them is
    > trivial, and that once you have them, you have them forever. In Arena
    > obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also obtaining a
    > full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You could not go
    > into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go to a
    > very large number of stores buying it piece by piece.
    > The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but that isn't enough. There
    > needs to be randomness so when you play you don't automatically go to
    > tomb X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved having to find the
    > rumors of someone who may know something about an artifact. Then having
    > to find the map to the actual location of the artifact. It could take
    > hours of playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes. And you had
    > no idea what artifacts, if any, you could find.

    I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a small
    part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable characters,
    like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    skills at triple speed...

    In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is necessary to
    bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In fact, I
    am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually expected
    - even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.

    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    It's all up to you and how you play the game though. If you go consulting
    game guides then you will soon find that the games will get too easy.
    Morrowind had a random item generation in chests and different objects I
    believe? Perhaps this will be incorporated into Oblivion in some manner.
    Also, you do not want rooms/dungeons to be forever changing. One thing that
    I couldn't understand in Morrowind the first time I played it was that when
    I killed a creature, went out of the building to heal and then went back in
    to gather items, the creature was alive again. "How could this be? I killed
    it." I found myself asking. I am very interested to see what Oblivion will
    do, but won't be surprised if they do it all over again.

    Morrowind was also created so that people could play it the way they wanted
    to, and at their own pace. Oblivion is going to reflect that as well. For a
    game such as Oblivion, which has been under construction for a while now, we
    can only trust that the game developers have learned from their mistakes and
    have listened to comments of improvement. I wouldn't worry about such a
    small thing as this, the game should work around it somehow. And if not then
    wack yourself over the head with a frying pan, you might just forget where
    to find item 'Y' or 'X'...


    > > In Arena obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also
    > > obtaining a full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You
    could
    > > not go into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go
    to
    > > a very large number of stores buying it piece by piece.
    >
    > That's one thing that wasn't so great about Morrowind. Part way through
    the
    > game, you can practically ignore loot because there's so much of it.
    >
    > > The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but that isn't enough. There
    > > needs to be randomness so when you play you don't automatically go to
    tomb
    > > X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved having to find the rumors
    > > of someone who may know something about an artifact. Then having to
    find
    > > the map to the actual location of the artifact. It could take hours of
    > > playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes. And you had no idea
    what
    > > artifacts, if any, you could find.
    >
    > A certain degree of randomness would be nice. Bethesda tends to recreate
    > the wheel with each game based on comments about the previous one.
    Usually,
    > some things are improved and others are worsened. Daggerfall players
    > complained that the dungeons were too random (a valid complaint) and that
    > magic was too overpowering (another valid complaint). So with Morrowind,
    > they cut down on randomness and gimped magic. Now the pendulum will swing
    > back a little in Oblivion.
    >
    > Can Oblivion be as good as or better than Morrowind? Yes--I hope it is.
    I
    > love Morrowind, but there's room for improvement.
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:40:20 +1000, "Sabeth" <Sabeth@goaway.com>
    wrote:

    >I killed a creature, went out of the building to heal and then went back in
    >to gather items, the creature was alive again. "How could this be? I killed
    >it." I found myself asking. I am very interested to see what Oblivion will
    >do, but won't be surprised if they do it all over again.

    Where was this? I found this sort of thing in the Giants mod
    concerning zombies and there were of course the spriggans in Bloodmoon
    and the even tougher earth spriggans in Giants that you had to kill
    multiple times but I don't remember any such situation in the base
    game un-modded.

    >> > In Arena obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also
    >> > obtaining a full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You
    >> >could not go into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go

    There certainly was an element of "Monty Hall-ism" in MW - the whole
    point of most of the "House" mods was simply to get a better place to
    display all that excess loot that one couldn't sell. Even with my
    standard Creeper mod which I wrote to give him 50000 gold per day
    instead of 5000 there was a lot of unsaleable stuff.

    BTW my favorite house of all was the one you get when you finished
    Suran Underworld.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    "Sabeth" <Sabeth@goaway.com> wrote in
    news:42ea159a$0$10030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

    > One thing that
    > I couldn't understand in Morrowind the first time I played it was
    > that when I killed a creature, went out of the building to heal and
    > then went back in to gather items, the creature was alive again.

    If you don't use the remove corpse option this problem should go away.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
    computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
    it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
    the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    version - bummer, man!)

    Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).

    Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
    player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
    be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
    When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
    that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
    is a big no-no!

    Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
    game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
    all. I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
    whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
    because they're weapons are too valuable.

    Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
    in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!

    "DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
    news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    > different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    >
    > Thoughts?
    >
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    The Appalling Silence wrote:
    > I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
    > computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
    > it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
    > the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    > version - bummer, man!)
    >
    > Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    > standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    > it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
    >
    > Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
    > player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
    > be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
    > When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
    > that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
    > is a big no-no!
    >

    True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
    Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
    set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
    still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
    corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
    Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
    Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
    Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
    neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
    plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.

    > Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
    > game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
    > all.

    I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
    the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
    enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
    of money.

    > I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    > Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
    > whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
    > because they're weapons are too valuable.
    >

    My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
    you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
    for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.

    > Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    > challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
    > in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
    >

    The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
    random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
    or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
    more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
    boring.

    > "DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
    > news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > > I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > > lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > > all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > > peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > > example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    > > different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    > >
    > > Thoughts?
    > >
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Magnus Itland wrote:
    > On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:15:07 GMT, Michael W. Ryder
    > <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    >
    > > DeAnn wrote:
    > >> I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > >> lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > >> all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > >> peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > >> example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    > >> different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    > >>
    > >> Thoughts?
    > >>
    > >
    > > Personally, I would like it if they returned to the Arena and Daggerfall
    > > way of doing things. I dislike the way that almost All of the artifacts
    > > of the Empire are available in one small area, that obtaining them is
    > > trivial, and that once you have them, you have them forever. In Arena
    > > obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also obtaining a
    > > full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You could not go
    > > into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go to a
    > > very large number of stores buying it piece by piece.
    > > The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but that isn't enough. There
    > > needs to be randomness so when you play you don't automatically go to
    > > tomb X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved having to find the
    > > rumors of someone who may know something about an artifact. Then having
    > > to find the map to the actual location of the artifact. It could take
    > > hours of playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes. And you had
    > > no idea what artifacts, if any, you could find.
    >
    > I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    > useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    > especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    > You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a small
    > part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable characters,
    > like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    > skills at triple speed...
    >
    > In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is necessary to
    > bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    > must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In fact, I
    > am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    > Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    > Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    > planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually expected
    > - even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    >

    Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Sarah wrote:
    > "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    > news:LNcGe.503848$cg1.176670@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > > In Arena obtaining one artifact was a major accomplishment. Also
    > > obtaining a full set of good armor was another accomplishment. You could
    > > not go into tomb X and obtain a full set of ebony armor. You had to go to
    > > a very large number of stores buying it piece by piece.
    >
    > That's one thing that wasn't so great about Morrowind. Part way through the
    > game, you can practically ignore loot because there's so much of it.
    >
    > > The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but that isn't enough. There
    > > needs to be randomness so when you play you don't automatically go to tomb
    > > X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved having to find the rumors
    > > of someone who may know something about an artifact. Then having to find
    > > the map to the actual location of the artifact. It could take hours of
    > > playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes. And you had no idea what
    > > artifacts, if any, you could find.
    >
    > A certain degree of randomness would be nice. Bethesda tends to recreate
    > the wheel with each game based on comments about the previous one. Usually,
    > some things are improved and others are worsened. Daggerfall players
    > complained that the dungeons were too random (a valid complaint) and that
    > magic was too overpowering (another valid complaint). So with Morrowind,
    > they cut down on randomness and gimped magic. Now the pendulum will swing
    > back a little in Oblivion.
    >
    > Can Oblivion be as good as or better than Morrowind? Yes--I hope it is. I
    > love Morrowind, but there's room for improvement.

    I don't think you have much to worry about. It's a lot larger than
    Morrowind (smaller than Daggerfall) and the NPCs have life-cycles. The
    main thing I heard it will have less of will be total number of NPCs,
    but then again most of Morrowind's NPCs simply stood there, even if you
    went upstairs and looted their house. I'm really looking forward to
    the stealth aspect.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > Magnus Itland wrote:

    >> I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    >> useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    >> especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    >> You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a
    >> small
    >> part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable
    >> characters,
    >> like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    >> skills at triple speed...
    >>
    >> In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is necessary
    >> to
    >> bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    >> must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In
    >> fact, I
    >> am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    >> Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    >> Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    >> planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually
    >> expected
    >> - even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    >
    > Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    > out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    > different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    > life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.

    The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with Oblivion. But of course
    they can just make a less dramatic ending than what has been implied so
    far, and continue to make new games.

    As for the game engine improvements, however, you can always make new
    improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in capacity, so things that
    are impossible this year are possible next year. So the longer you work
    until you release a new game, the more stunning it will be. You need to
    time it so that you release the new game just before people are fed up
    with the old. With all the new content made by fans, Morrowind could
    probably have lasted another year, and who knows what Oblivion could have
    been by then.

    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1122795394.632236.192290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > The Appalling Silence wrote:
    >> I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through
    >> a
    >> computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without
    >> making
    >> it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know
    >> whether
    >> the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    >> version - bummer, man!)
    >>

    No mods is one of the reasons that I've never liked consoles. That and
    their pathetic resolution.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Magnus Itland wrote:
    > On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Magnus Itland wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    >>> useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    >>> especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    >>> You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a
    >>> small
    >>> part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable
    >>> characters,
    >>> like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    >>> skills at triple speed...
    >>>
    >>> In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is
    >>> necessary to
    >>> bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    >>> must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In
    >>> fact, I
    >>> am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    >>> Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    >>> Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    >>> planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually
    >>> expected
    >>> - even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    >>
    >>
    >> Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    >> out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    >> different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    >> life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    >
    >
    > The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with Oblivion. But of course
    > they can just make a less dramatic ending than what has been implied so
    > far, and continue to make new games.
    >
    > As for the game engine improvements, however, you can always make new
    > improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in capacity, so things
    > that are impossible this year are possible next year. So the longer you
    > work until you release a new game, the more stunning it will be. You
    > need to time it so that you release the new game just before people are
    > fed up with the old. With all the new content made by fans, Morrowind
    > could probably have lasted another year, and who knows what Oblivion
    > could have been by then.
    >

    The problem with their "improvements" is that they broke a lot of the
    things people liked in Arena/Daggerfall and added nothing in return.
    They have not added any new maneuvers such as being able to mantle up a
    wall such as Thief, but removed almost all of the randomness. The game
    is more like an oversize Doom than a RPG. Now you know where all the
    "power ups" are, armor and wounds get repaired instantly, etc.
    One of the major things I liked about Arena/Daggerfall was that no two
    games were the same. The people had different rumors, most dungeons
    were different, and the location of almost everything was different. If
    you needed weapon or armor repairs, unless you were a Knight, you had to
    find an armorer and wait days for the repair.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > The Appalling Silence wrote:
    >
    >>I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
    >>computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
    >>it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
    >>the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    >>version - bummer, man!)
    >>
    >>Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    >>standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    >>it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
    >>
    >>Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
    >>player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
    >>be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
    >>When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
    >>that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
    >>is a big no-no!
    >>
    >
    >
    > True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
    > Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
    > set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
    > still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
    > corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
    > Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
    > Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
    > Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
    > neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
    > plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.
    >
    >
    >>Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
    >>game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
    >>all.
    >
    >
    > I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
    > the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
    > enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
    > of money.
    >

    That was one thing I liked about Arena. My character made it through
    the game buying no training and having no items enchanted. Any
    enchanted potions or items were purchased or looted, and finding an
    ebony pauldron of levitation, for example, was a real bonus.


    >
    >>I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    >>Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
    >>whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
    >>because they're weapons are too valuable.
    >>
    >
    >
    > My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
    > you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
    > for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    > sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    > your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    > Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
    >
    >
    They took away the weight of gold from Arena/Daggerfall and eliminated
    the banks, letters of credit, buying houses and ships. It does not seem
    like a fair trade. They also added a number of new metals, Daedric and
    glass among others, and took out others, such as mithril and elven. I
    still can't figure out why they changed so much of the series. If they
    wanted a new game, label it a new game, not a continuation of an
    established series.


    >>Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    >>challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
    >>in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
    >>
    >
    >
    > The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
    > random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
    > or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
    > more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
    > boring.
    >
    >
    >>"DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
    >>news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >>
    >>>I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    >>>lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    >>>all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    >>>peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    >>>example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    >>>different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    >>>
    >>>Thoughts?
    >>>
    >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    The Appalling Silence wrote:

    > I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through
    > a computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without
    > making it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know
    > whether the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods
    > in my version - bummer, man!)

    They get better and better at this as time goes by. You think Morrowind
    freezes a lot? In Daggerfall, CTD was pretty much something you had to deal
    with. You saved every couple minutes or so, or you were sorry. I expect
    Oblivion will improve over Morrowind in much the same way.

    > Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    > standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    > it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).

    Given artifacts are supposed to be unique items with an extensive backstory,
    I doubt random generation would work well. I don't see how you could
    generate a random backstory. One thing I could see is having the artifact
    be randomly placed, and placing a rumor in the nearest village. It could
    then spread by the standard NPC conversation channels, until you stumbled
    across the rumor. As the game went by, the rumor would spread, making it
    progressively more likely you would encounter the rumor.

    > Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to
    > your player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that
    > would be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level
    > one! When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up.
    > Finding that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're
    > level 20, is a big no-no!

    All treasure is going to be generated according to treasure and class in
    Oblivion, so you ought to be happy.

    > Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into
    > the game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with
    > it all. I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    > Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when
    > you're whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as
    > you like because they're weapons are too valuable.

    Horses and houses will be your money drain. Enjoy!

    > Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    > challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the
    > scenery in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!

    Though the guild progression quests sound as if they are going to be an
    elaborate linear progression similar to the main quest (though it is
    possible that the main quest is less linear!), at least getting the highest
    rank will unlock gameplay this time around. The commoner quests sound like
    they will be, not so much "randomly" generated, as "procedurally." NPCs
    will have needs, and I'm hoping they'll occasionally need the PC to meet
    them. They did say most quests could be gotten from anyone, which reminds
    me of the "merchant quests" of Daggerfall.

    So, all in all, it sounds like you will be pleased with Oblivion.

    - Tarvok
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 00:30:58 GMT, Michael W. Ryder
    <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

    > The problem with their "improvements" is that they broke a lot of the
    > things people liked in Arena/Daggerfall and added nothing in return.
    > They have not added any new maneuvers such as being able to mantle up a
    > wall such as Thief, but removed almost all of the randomness. The game
    > is more like an oversize Doom than a RPG. Now you know where all the
    > "power ups" are, armor and wounds get repaired instantly, etc.
    > One of the major things I liked about Arena/Daggerfall was that no two
    > games were the same. The people had different rumors, most dungeons
    > were different, and the location of almost everything was different. If
    > you needed weapon or armor repairs, unless you were a Knight, you had to
    > find an armorer and wait days for the repair.

    Also in Daggerfall, if I was a member of the Mages Guild and had done a
    certain number of quests, I could travel to Grayidge, Tulune, and buy a
    life-stealing dagger. But if I did so early in my career, the dagger was
    gold or light blue. I would have to come back later to get the
    higher-grade dagger. And even then, it would wear down and break
    eventually, and I would have to trek back for another (or use another
    weapon). Likewise with various pieces of armor - some of them I would hear
    about from other adventurers, some I would find out by myself, and some
    seemed to always be in the same shop on one machine, but not on another.
    It was a mix of regularity and randomness which was just right with me.
    Morrowind is less random, but it still has random creature spawn and some
    random loot spawn. I am sure many people like the game better with less
    randomness. This is the kind of people who buy "clue books" for role
    playing games. But the thing I enjoy most in the Elder Scrolls is the
    freedom to create my own fate. It is still there, but it is somewhat
    diminished. I hope it is not reduced again in Oblivion. I don't want to
    be the Avatar (or even the Nerevarine), I just want to be some guy who
    makes his way in a world filled to the rim with magic and weird creatures.

    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Magnus Itland wrote:
    > On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 00:30:58 GMT, Michael W. Ryder
    > <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    >
    >> The problem with their "improvements" is that they broke a lot of the
    >> things people liked in Arena/Daggerfall and added nothing in return.
    >> They have not added any new maneuvers such as being able to mantle up
    >> a wall such as Thief, but removed almost all of the randomness. The
    >> game is more like an oversize Doom than a RPG. Now you know where all
    >> the "power ups" are, armor and wounds get repaired instantly, etc.
    >> One of the major things I liked about Arena/Daggerfall was that no two
    >> games were the same. The people had different rumors, most dungeons
    >> were different, and the location of almost everything was different.
    >> If you needed weapon or armor repairs, unless you were a Knight, you
    >> had to find an armorer and wait days for the repair.
    >
    >
    > Also in Daggerfall, if I was a member of the Mages Guild and had done a
    > certain number of quests, I could travel to Grayidge, Tulune, and buy a
    > life-stealing dagger. But if I did so early in my career, the dagger
    > was gold or light blue. I would have to come back later to get the
    > higher-grade dagger. And even then, it would wear down and break
    > eventually, and I would have to trek back for another (or use another
    > weapon). Likewise with various pieces of armor - some of them I would
    > hear about from other adventurers, some I would find out by myself, and
    > some seemed to always be in the same shop on one machine, but not on
    > another. It was a mix of regularity and randomness which was just right
    > with me. Morrowind is less random, but it still has random creature
    > spawn and some random loot spawn. I am sure many people like the game
    > better with less randomness. This is the kind of people who buy "clue
    > books" for role playing games. But the thing I enjoy most in the Elder
    > Scrolls is the freedom to create my own fate. It is still there, but it
    > is somewhat diminished. I hope it is not reduced again in Oblivion. I
    > don't want to be the Avatar (or even the Nerevarine), I just want to be
    > some guy who makes his way in a world filled to the rim with magic and
    > weird creatures.
    >

    What I really liked about Arena/Daggerfall is that most magical items
    had a charge that did not regenerate. You either used the item up and
    it disappeared or you tried to get it recharged. The later took time
    and money. If you used all the charges on your artifact it disappeared
    just like in the legends about the item.
    Also, in Arena/Daggerfall you were just a person that happened to be in
    the right place at the right time. No prophecies to fulfill or
    expectations to meet. And when you were done most people never knew
    what you had done.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Magnus Itland wrote:
    > On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > > Magnus Itland wrote:
    >
    > >> I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    > >> useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    > >> especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    > >> You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a
    > >> small
    > >> part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable
    > >> characters,
    > >> like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    > >> skills at triple speed...
    > >>
    > >> In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is necessary
    > >> to
    > >> bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    > >> must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In
    > >> fact, I
    > >> am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    > >> Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    > >> Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    > >> planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually
    > >> expected
    > >> - even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    > >
    > > Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    > > out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    > > different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    > > life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    >
    > The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with Oblivion. But of course
    > they can just make a less dramatic ending than what has been implied so
    > far, and continue to make new games.
    >

    I'd think they'd be dumb to drop it at Oblivion without seeing where
    sales leads. There's still a lot of places in that world to explore,
    like Elsweyr and the Black Marsh. I'd like to see all of Nirn
    eventually.

    > As for the game engine improvements, however, you can always make new
    > improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in capacity, so things that
    > are impossible this year are possible next year. So the longer you work
    > until you release a new game, the more stunning it will be. You need to
    > time it so that you release the new game just before people are fed up
    > with the old. With all the new content made by fans, Morrowind could
    > probably have lasted another year, and who knows what Oblivion could have
    > been by then.
    >

    I'm pretty bored with Morrowind, actually. I've done the MQ more than
    a few times, all factions, the expansions, and tried many mods.
    Oblivion could be put off for a decade and look a lot better than it
    would if they put it off a year. From what I've read and seen of this
    game, I think it's going to be a game that blows many people away.
    Besides, new single player CRPGs right now are pretty scarce, with
    Neverwinter Nights 2 being the only other one I'm looking forward to in
    the forseeable future.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    John Doe wrote:
    > <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1122795394.632236.192290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > > The Appalling Silence wrote:
    > >> I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through
    > >> a
    > >> computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without
    > >> making
    > >> it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know
    > >> whether
    > >> the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    > >> version - bummer, man!)
    > >>
    >
    > No mods is one of the reasons that I've never liked consoles. That and
    > their pathetic resolution.

    Xbox 360 will not have pathetic resolution. It's one powerful machine.
    Maybe not as good resolution wise as a totally new top of the line
    system, but the differences will be small when one sees Xbox 360 games
    on an HDTV. And with Xbox Live and the harddrive, some mods may make
    it onto the consoles in this generation.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    > Magnus Itland wrote:
    > > On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Magnus Itland wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>> I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    > >>> useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    > >>> especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    > >>> You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a
    > >>> small
    > >>> part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable
    > >>> characters,
    > >>> like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    > >>> skills at triple speed...
    > >>>
    > >>> In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is
    > >>> necessary to
    > >>> bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    > >>> must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In
    > >>> fact, I
    > >>> am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    > >>> Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    > >>> Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    > >>> planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually
    > >>> expected
    > >>> - even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    > >> out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    > >> different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    > >> life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    > >
    > >
    > > The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with Oblivion. But of course
    > > they can just make a less dramatic ending than what has been implied so
    > > far, and continue to make new games.
    > >
    > > As for the game engine improvements, however, you can always make new
    > > improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in capacity, so things
    > > that are impossible this year are possible next year. So the longer you
    > > work until you release a new game, the more stunning it will be. You
    > > need to time it so that you release the new game just before people are
    > > fed up with the old. With all the new content made by fans, Morrowind
    > > could probably have lasted another year, and who knows what Oblivion
    > > could have been by then.
    > >
    >
    > The problem with their "improvements" is that they broke a lot of the
    > things people liked in Arena/Daggerfall and added nothing in return.

    Really? Improved depth was always a good thing.

    > They have not added any new maneuvers such as being able to mantle up a
    > wall such as Thief, but removed almost all of the randomness. The game
    > is more like an oversize Doom than a RPG. Now you know where all the
    > "power ups" are, armor and wounds get repaired instantly, etc.

    Then don't get them until you feel like it. Elder Scrolls games are
    known for freedom and nobody but yourself can force you to get those
    artifacts.

    > One of the major things I liked about Arena/Daggerfall was that no two
    > games were the same. The people had different rumors, most dungeons
    > were different, and the location of almost everything was different. If
    > you needed weapon or armor repairs, unless you were a Knight, you had to
    > find an armorer and wait days for the repair.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Michael W. Ryder wrote:

    > Also, in Arena/Daggerfall you were just a person that happened to be in
    > the right place at the right time. No prophecies to fulfill or
    > expectations to meet. And when you were done most people never knew
    > what you had done.

    Actually, that was one thing I really liked about Morrowind--the fact that,
    once something major was accomplished, people actually *knew* about it. I
    rather enjoyed being greeted like a savior.
    --
    - Tarvok
    http://weeklyramble.blogspot.com
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    > hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > > The Appalling Silence wrote:
    > >
    > >>I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
    > >>computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
    > >>it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
    > >>the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    > >>version - bummer, man!)
    > >>
    > >>Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    > >>standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    > >>it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
    > >>
    > >>Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
    > >>player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
    > >>be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
    > >>When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
    > >>that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
    > >>is a big no-no!
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
    > > Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
    > > set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
    > > still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
    > > corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
    > > Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
    > > Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
    > > Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
    > > neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
    > > plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.
    > >
    > >
    > >>Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
    > >>game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
    > >>all.
    > >
    > >
    > > I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
    > > the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
    > > enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
    > > of money.
    > >
    >
    > That was one thing I liked about Arena. My character made it through
    > the game buying no training and having no items enchanted.

    I'm not complaining, just mentioning it in response to the guy.
    There's plenty of things to spend money on for the first 40-50 hours at
    least. Once maxed out and decked with great enchanted items, there's
    not much else to spend gold on, but at that point you're basically a
    walking god. One character of mine has something like 750K gold and a
    whole bunch of items stashed away in a house. At least in Oblivion
    they're allowing houses to be purchased.

    > Any
    > enchanted potions or items were purchased or looted, and finding an
    > ebony pauldron of levitation, for example, was a real bonus.
    >
    >
    > >
    > >>I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    > >>Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
    > >>whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
    > >>because they're weapons are too valuable.
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
    > > you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
    > > for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    > > sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    > > your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    > > Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
    > >
    > >
    > They took away the weight of gold from Arena/Daggerfall and eliminated
    > the banks, letters of credit, buying houses and ships. It does not seem
    > like a fair trade. They also added a number of new metals, Daedric and
    > glass among others, and took out others, such as mithril and elven.

    Mithril is coming back:

    http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_conceptart.htm

    Click the picture in the middle and right.


    > I
    > still can't figure out why they changed so much of the series. If they
    > wanted a new game, label it a new game, not a continuation of an
    > established series.
    >

    That pretty much defies their whole philosophy. The designers said
    they want to change things that didn't work last time or that the
    fanbase really doesn't like. They spend a lot of time talking to
    people interested in the game and listen to complaints. They heard
    magic was overpowered in Daggerfall, for example, and gimped it for
    Morrowind. Now they're trying to make magic more balanced for Oblivion
    since so many people found magic to be weak in MW (and they're mostly
    right, it had its utilities but you needed to invest a lot in
    melee/marksman to get through it). And believe it or not, a lot of
    people wanted more depth to the game rather than a huge map with
    shallow NPCs. Daggerfall had like 750K+ NPCs while MW is far more
    focused. They make changes according what they feel will make a better
    game.

    I liked Morrowind a lot. Played at least a few hundred hours of it.
    But I think it's time for a change and much of it seems for the better.
    The Radient AI system they're using sounds pretty damn good and it
    brings a random element to the system.

    >
    > >>Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    > >>challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
    > >>in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
    > > random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
    > > or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
    > > more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
    > > boring.
    > >
    > >
    > >>"DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
    > >>news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > >>
    > >>>I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > >>>lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > >>>all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > >>>peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > >>>example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    > >>>different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    > >>>
    > >>>Thoughts?
    > >>>
    > >
    > >
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:00:35 GMT, Daryl Sawyer <tarNOSPAMvok@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    > The thing that worries me is the fact that, in every interview, the
    > number
    > of guilds seems to get smaller and smaller. Initially, you had fighters,
    > thieves, mages, dark brotherhood, arena guild, and Nine Divines. In
    > recent
    > interviews, Nine Divines and arena guild seem to have been cut. I worry
    > that their "all voiced dialogue" thing will end up cutting dialogue
    > content
    > severely. In truth, I hate the "all voiced dialogue" fad in the same
    > way I
    > hate the old "3d everything" fad that ruined a good number of great 2d
    > franchises.

    I really don't see the point of the computer speaking to you if you can't
    speak to it. It seems unnatural.

    As for the disappearing guilds, I feel pretty confident that they will
    return once the modders get their hands on it.

    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    >
    >>Magnus Itland wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Magnus Itland wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    >>>>>useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    >>>>>especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    >>>>>You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a
    >>>>>small
    >>>>>part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable
    >>>>>characters,
    >>>>>like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    >>>>>skills at triple speed...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is
    >>>>>necessary to
    >>>>>bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    >>>>>must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In
    >>>>>fact, I
    >>>>>am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    >>>>>Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    >>>>>Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    >>>>>planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually
    >>>>>expected
    >>>>>- even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    >>>>out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    >>>>different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    >>>>life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with Oblivion. But of course
    >>>they can just make a less dramatic ending than what has been implied so
    >>>far, and continue to make new games.
    >>>
    >>>As for the game engine improvements, however, you can always make new
    >>>improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in capacity, so things
    >>>that are impossible this year are possible next year. So the longer you
    >>>work until you release a new game, the more stunning it will be. You
    >>>need to time it so that you release the new game just before people are
    >>>fed up with the old. With all the new content made by fans, Morrowind
    >>>could probably have lasted another year, and who knows what Oblivion
    >>>could have been by then.
    >>>
    >>
    >>The problem with their "improvements" is that they broke a lot of the
    >>things people liked in Arena/Daggerfall and added nothing in return.
    >
    >
    > Really? Improved depth was always a good thing.
    >

    Where are you seeing this improved depth? They improved the graphics
    and took out most of the scenery. The interaction with NPCs is much
    worse than Arena or Daggerfall. There is no option for asking for jobs
    to raise money, nor is there any option to adapt a certain attitude when
    talking to an NPC. You can either bribe them or taunt them, nothing else.
    There is no weight to gold, nor is there any banks, notes of credits,
    houses or ships to buy, or horses or carts for transportation. All of
    these things would have migrated to Vardenfell as people would want the
    things they are familiar with.


    >
    >>They have not added any new maneuvers such as being able to mantle up a
    >>wall such as Thief, but removed almost all of the randomness. The game
    >>is more like an oversize Doom than a RPG. Now you know where all the
    >>"power ups" are, armor and wounds get repaired instantly, etc.
    >
    >
    > Then don't get them until you feel like it. Elder Scrolls games are
    > known for freedom and nobody but yourself can force you to get those
    > artifacts.
    >
    >
    But after a short time there is Nothing else to do in Morrowind except
    collect all the artifacts. In Arena/Daggerfall there was always new
    quests and dungeons to explore and there were No walkthroughs for any of
    them. Morrowind is more like a Doom game in that everything is always
    in the same place. In Arena I usually spent up to an hour in each town
    looking for goods, rumors, etc. In Morrowind, after the first run
    through it was time for the discard pile unless you wanted to take your
    chances with the various mods.

    >>One of the major things I liked about Arena/Daggerfall was that no two
    >>games were the same. The people had different rumors, most dungeons
    >>were different, and the location of almost everything was different. If
    >>you needed weapon or armor repairs, unless you were a Knight, you had to
    >>find an armorer and wait days for the repair.
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    >
    >>hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    >>
    >>>The Appalling Silence wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
    >>>>computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
    >>>>it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
    >>>>the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    >>>>version - bummer, man!)
    >>>>
    >>>>Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    >>>>standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    >>>>it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
    >>>>
    >>>>Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
    >>>>player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
    >>>>be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
    >>>>When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
    >>>>that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
    >>>>is a big no-no!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
    >>> Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
    >>>set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
    >>>still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
    >>>corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
    >>>Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
    >>>Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
    >>>Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
    >>>neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
    >>>plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
    >>>>game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
    >>>>all.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
    >>>the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
    >>>enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
    >>>of money.
    >>>
    >>
    >>That was one thing I liked about Arena. My character made it through
    >>the game buying no training and having no items enchanted.
    >
    >
    > I'm not complaining, just mentioning it in response to the guy.
    > There's plenty of things to spend money on for the first 40-50 hours at
    > least. Once maxed out and decked with great enchanted items, there's
    > not much else to spend gold on, but at that point you're basically a
    > walking god. One character of mine has something like 750K gold and a
    > whole bunch of items stashed away in a house. At least in Oblivion
    > they're allowing houses to be purchased.
    >
    >
    In Arena, I finished the game with less than 10% of that amount in cash,
    plus no stash of weapons and armor. The characters were essentially
    mercenaries who only owned what they could carry on their back. What
    little cash I could scrape together went to new weapons and armor, when
    they were available, plus a very large number of healing potions.
    Morrowind seemed more "Monty Haul" like in that enormous amounts of very
    powerful weapons, armor, and magic items were available for the taking.
    Plus the value of these items was so out of line as to totally ruin
    the struggling adventurer mind set. After only a very short time I had
    far more cash than I could ever use, even without using any of the loop
    holes or mods.


    >>Any
    >>enchanted potions or items were purchased or looted, and finding an
    >>ebony pauldron of levitation, for example, was a real bonus.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>>I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    >>>>Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
    >>>>whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
    >>>>because they're weapons are too valuable.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
    >>>you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
    >>>for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    >>>sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    >>>your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    >>>Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>They took away the weight of gold from Arena/Daggerfall and eliminated
    >>the banks, letters of credit, buying houses and ships. It does not seem
    >>like a fair trade. They also added a number of new metals, Daedric and
    >>glass among others, and took out others, such as mithril and elven.
    >
    >
    > Mithril is coming back:
    >
    > http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_conceptart.htm
    >
    > Click the picture in the middle and right.
    >
    >
    >
    >>I
    >>still can't figure out why they changed so much of the series. If they
    >>wanted a new game, label it a new game, not a continuation of an
    >>established series.
    >>
    >
    >
    > That pretty much defies their whole philosophy. The designers said
    > they want to change things that didn't work last time or that the
    > fanbase really doesn't like. They spend a lot of time talking to
    > people interested in the game and listen to complaints. They heard
    > magic was overpowered in Daggerfall, for example, and gimped it for
    > Morrowind. Now they're trying to make magic more balanced for Oblivion
    > since so many people found magic to be weak in MW (and they're mostly
    > right, it had its utilities but you needed to invest a lot in
    > melee/marksman to get through it). And believe it or not, a lot of
    > people wanted more depth to the game rather than a huge map with
    > shallow NPCs. Daggerfall had like 750K+ NPCs while MW is far more
    > focused. They make changes according what they feel will make a better
    > game.
    >

    My comment was based on Arena and Daggerfall which were basically the
    same game in the same world. Morrowind is more like a alternate
    universe than the same as the first two in the Elder Scrolls. Most of
    the wildlife, vegetation, weapons, armor, and magic items are completely
    different. Yet supposedly Morrowind takes place in one of the provinces
    Arena takes you to. In Arena the artifacts were scattered across the
    continent, rather than all on one island. The artifacts also had a
    limited lifetime you could use them before they left for a new owner.
    Not now.
    I have no problem with Bethesda bringing out new games, thats how they
    make their money. I do think a lot of people would complain if they
    tried to make a Pirates of the Caribbean type game and called it and
    Elder Scrolls game. Morrowind is Not a Elder Scrolls game to me as it
    does not follow the rules set down in the first releases of the series.


    > I liked Morrowind a lot. Played at least a few hundred hours of it.
    > But I think it's time for a change and much of it seems for the better.
    > The Radient AI system they're using sounds pretty damn good and it
    > brings a random element to the system.
    >
    >
    >>>>Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    >>>>challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
    >>>>in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
    >>>random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
    >>>or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
    >>>more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
    >>>boring.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
    >>>>news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    >>>>>lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    >>>>>all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    >>>>>peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    >>>>>example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    >>>>>different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Thoughts?
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1123134651.104062.279380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

    >> Yes, which can be difficult to pull off.
    >
    > Which is why they've spent a lot of time with it. It's their job :-)

    And all their games come out bug free with everything working wonderfully
    well; everybody pleased with how everything was implemented. ;-)

    >> The only reason I worry is that
    >> Bethesda usually improves certain things and breaks certain things with
    >> each
    >> game. So the question is what will they break (or make worse) in
    >> Oblivion?
    >
    > Alright, the main things I've read of developer quotes is that:
    <snip>

    It doesn't matter what's been said in interviews. Until we see the game, we
    won't know what actually works well and what doesn't. Yes, I'm jaded. I've
    read too many interviews with designers and developers (not just Bethesda)
    that make it sound like every change they've made is fantastic and raises
    the bar, blah, blah, blah. Then the game comes out and it ends up making a
    nice coaster. So until I get a chance to play it, I'll reserve judgement.

    > There is, but then again it's a subjective value judgement. Unless the
    > mechanisms are totally broken, people will like/dislike the game on
    > personal taste. I think I'll like it a lot. There will be some
    > grognards who will dislike it a lot just because it's not
    > Arena/Daggerfall.

    Well, I liked Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind, but with every game, there
    was room for improvement, and some things I loved in the previous game had
    been removed (or didn't work as well) in the next one. That's why I'll
    reserve judgement until I actually play Oblivion. The original question was
    Can Oblivion be as good as Morrowind. The answer is yes. It could also be
    better--or worse.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:xFeHe.53573$5N3.41959@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    >> for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    >> sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    >> your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    >> Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.

    And how much should a dai-katana weigh? Ever held a sword? Like, a
    properly made one, not some cheap knock-off replica bought at a knife shop
    or something like that. A katana is a heavy piece of metal. and they're
    only about 3.5 feet long with a thin blade, and can be wielded
    single-handed. Give it a bigger, broader blade and heavier grip to balance
    it like you'd have in a dai-katana and you'd have a monster.
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    > hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > > Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    > >
    > >>Magnus Itland wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Magnus Itland wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>>I must say that the toolbox that came with Morrowind have proved really
    > >>>>>useful. But I also agree that the game lacks randomness. In Daggerfall
    > >>>>>especially, it would not be possible to write a traditional walkthrough.
    > >>>>>You could do that with the main quest, but the main quest was such a
    > >>>>>small
    > >>>>>part of the experience. And you could make the most improbable
    > >>>>>characters,
    > >>>>>like a linguist with an allergy to certain metals but able to learn new
    > >>>>>skills at triple speed...
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set for Morrowind is
    > >>>>>necessary to
    > >>>>>bring back some of the randomness that was in the earlier games. And I
    > >>>>>must admit they've done some really impressive things with it. In
    > >>>>>fact, I
    > >>>>>am worried that having Oblivion come out this soon may put a stop to the
    > >>>>>Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start from scratch again with
    > >>>>>Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in the series, as it was
    > >>>>>planned from the very beginning. For that reason, I had actually
    > >>>>>expected
    > >>>>>- even hoped - that they would take some more time making it.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half as good as the stuff
    > >>>>out there says it is (with perks being granted for each skill at
    > >>>>different levels), real physics, NPCs with actual character and
    > >>>>life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with Oblivion. But of course
    > >>>they can just make a less dramatic ending than what has been implied so
    > >>>far, and continue to make new games.
    > >>>
    > >>>As for the game engine improvements, however, you can always make new
    > >>>improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in capacity, so things
    > >>>that are impossible this year are possible next year. So the longer you
    > >>>work until you release a new game, the more stunning it will be. You
    > >>>need to time it so that you release the new game just before people are
    > >>>fed up with the old. With all the new content made by fans, Morrowind
    > >>>could probably have lasted another year, and who knows what Oblivion
    > >>>could have been by then.
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>The problem with their "improvements" is that they broke a lot of the
    > >>things people liked in Arena/Daggerfall and added nothing in return.
    > >
    > >
    > > Really? Improved depth was always a good thing.
    > >
    >
    > Where are you seeing this improved depth? They improved the graphics
    > and took out most of the scenery. The interaction with NPCs is much
    > worse than Arena or Daggerfall.

    That's a subjective value judgement. If you like the earlier two
    better, cool. I thought Morrowind was more unique and that each major
    town had a distinct flavor. Never got that from Daggerfall from what I
    remember. It's been 8 years since I played it.

    > There is no option for asking for jobs
    > to raise money, nor is there any option to adapt a certain attitude when
    > talking to an NPC. You can either bribe them or taunt them, nothing else.
    > There is no weight to gold, nor is there any banks, notes of credits,
    > houses or ships to buy, or horses or carts for transportation. All of
    > these things would have migrated to Vardenfell as people would want the
    > things they are familiar with.
    >

    There were ships and silt striders in MW. The weight to gold being
    nixed isn't all that bad, IMO.

    >
    > >
    > >>They have not added any new maneuvers such as being able to mantle up a
    > >>wall such as Thief, but removed almost all of the randomness. The game
    > >>is more like an oversize Doom than a RPG. Now you know where all the
    > >>"power ups" are, armor and wounds get repaired instantly, etc.
    > >
    > >
    > > Then don't get them until you feel like it. Elder Scrolls games are
    > > known for freedom and nobody but yourself can force you to get those
    > > artifacts.
    > >
    > >
    > But after a short time there is Nothing else to do in Morrowind except
    > collect all the artifacts. In Arena/Daggerfall there was always new
    > quests and dungeons to explore and there were No walkthroughs for any of
    > them. Morrowind is more like a Doom game in that everything is always
    > in the same place. In Arena I usually spent up to an hour in each town
    > looking for goods, rumors, etc. In Morrowind, after the first run
    > through it was time for the discard pile unless you wanted to take your
    > chances with the various mods.
    >

    Again, this is subjective. I just thought MW was deeper. I'm one of
    those who prefers quality over quantity. Daggerfall is far larger
    (never played Arena) but MW just felt more immersive to me.

    > >>One of the major things I liked about Arena/Daggerfall was that no two
    > >>games were the same. The people had different rumors, most dungeons
    > >>were different, and the location of almost everything was different. If
    > >>you needed weapon or armor repairs, unless you were a Knight, you had to
    > >>find an armorer and wait days for the repair.
    > >
    > >
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    > hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > > Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    > >
    > >>hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>The Appalling Silence wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
    > >>>>computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
    > >>>>it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
    > >>>>the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
    > >>>>version - bummer, man!)
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
    > >>>>standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
    > >>>>it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
    > >>>>player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
    > >>>>be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
    > >>>>When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
    > >>>>that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
    > >>>>is a big no-no!
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
    > >>> Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
    > >>>set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
    > >>>still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
    > >>>corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
    > >>>Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
    > >>>Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
    > >>>Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
    > >>>neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
    > >>>plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
    > >>>>game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
    > >>>>all.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
    > >>>the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
    > >>>enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
    > >>>of money.
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>That was one thing I liked about Arena. My character made it through
    > >>the game buying no training and having no items enchanted.
    > >
    > >
    > > I'm not complaining, just mentioning it in response to the guy.
    > > There's plenty of things to spend money on for the first 40-50 hours at
    > > least. Once maxed out and decked with great enchanted items, there's
    > > not much else to spend gold on, but at that point you're basically a
    > > walking god. One character of mine has something like 750K gold and a
    > > whole bunch of items stashed away in a house. At least in Oblivion
    > > they're allowing houses to be purchased.
    > >
    > >
    > In Arena, I finished the game with less than 10% of that amount in cash,
    > plus no stash of weapons and armor. The characters were essentially
    > mercenaries who only owned what they could carry on their back. What
    > little cash I could scrape together went to new weapons and armor, when
    > they were available, plus a very large number of healing potions.
    > Morrowind seemed more "Monty Haul" like in that enormous amounts of very
    > powerful weapons, armor, and magic items were available for the taking.
    > Plus the value of these items was so out of line as to totally ruin
    > the struggling adventurer mind set. After only a very short time I had
    > far more cash than I could ever use, even without using any of the loop
    > holes or mods.
    >

    There was a "Monty Haulism" aspect to MW, I agree. That's one reason
    why I built up one super powerful character and then a whole bunch of
    minor ones. Oblivion levels enemies up according to you and the combat
    system has become more tactical with staggers and such. But at a
    certain level, you'll hit an "unkillable" amount of power.

    >
    > >>Any
    > >>enchanted potions or items were purchased or looted, and finding an
    > >>ebony pauldron of levitation, for example, was a real bonus.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>>I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
    > >>>>Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
    > >>>>whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
    > >>>>because they're weapons are too valuable.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
    > >>>you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
    > >>>for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    > >>>sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    > >>>your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    > >>>Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>They took away the weight of gold from Arena/Daggerfall and eliminated
    > >>the banks, letters of credit, buying houses and ships. It does not seem
    > >>like a fair trade. They also added a number of new metals, Daedric and
    > >>glass among others, and took out others, such as mithril and elven.
    > >
    > >
    > > Mithril is coming back:
    > >
    > > http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_conceptart.htm
    > >
    > > Click the picture in the middle and right.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>I
    > >>still can't figure out why they changed so much of the series. If they
    > >>wanted a new game, label it a new game, not a continuation of an
    > >>established series.
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > That pretty much defies their whole philosophy. The designers said
    > > they want to change things that didn't work last time or that the
    > > fanbase really doesn't like. They spend a lot of time talking to
    > > people interested in the game and listen to complaints. They heard
    > > magic was overpowered in Daggerfall, for example, and gimped it for
    > > Morrowind. Now they're trying to make magic more balanced for Oblivion
    > > since so many people found magic to be weak in MW (and they're mostly
    > > right, it had its utilities but you needed to invest a lot in
    > > melee/marksman to get through it). And believe it or not, a lot of
    > > people wanted more depth to the game rather than a huge map with
    > > shallow NPCs. Daggerfall had like 750K+ NPCs while MW is far more
    > > focused. They make changes according what they feel will make a better
    > > game.
    > >
    >
    > My comment was based on Arena and Daggerfall which were basically the
    > same game in the same world. Morrowind is more like a alternate
    > universe than the same as the first two in the Elder Scrolls. Most of
    > the wildlife, vegetation, weapons, armor, and magic items are completely
    > different. Yet supposedly Morrowind takes place in one of the provinces
    > Arena takes you to. In Arena the artifacts were scattered across the
    > continent, rather than all on one island. The artifacts also had a
    > limited lifetime you could use them before they left for a new owner.
    > Not now.
    > I have no problem with Bethesda bringing out new games, thats how they
    > make their money. I do think a lot of people would complain if they
    > tried to make a Pirates of the Caribbean type game and called it and
    > Elder Scrolls game. Morrowind is Not a Elder Scrolls game to me as it
    > does not follow the rules set down in the first releases of the series.
    >
    >
    > > I liked Morrowind a lot. Played at least a few hundred hours of it.
    > > But I think it's time for a change and much of it seems for the better.
    > > The Radient AI system they're using sounds pretty damn good and it
    > > brings a random element to the system.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
    > >>>>challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
    > >>>>in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
    > >>>random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
    > >>>or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
    > >>>more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
    > >>>boring.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>"DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
    > >>>>news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > >>>>>lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > >>>>>all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > >>>>>peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > >>>>>example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
    > >>>>>different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>Thoughts?
    > >>>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Sarah wrote:
    > <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1123134651.104062.279380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > >> Yes, which can be difficult to pull off.
    > >
    > > Which is why they've spent a lot of time with it. It's their job :-)
    >
    > And all their games come out bug free with everything working wonderfully
    > well; everybody pleased with how everything was implemented. ;-)
    >

    Well, we're not talking about bugs. There will be some like anywhere
    else, but I don't think they're going to release it totally broken.
    They've improved, and this title has way too much hype to let people
    down by doing that.

    But who knows?

    > >> The only reason I worry is that
    > >> Bethesda usually improves certain things and breaks certain things with
    > >> each
    > >> game. So the question is what will they break (or make worse) in
    > >> Oblivion?
    > >
    > > Alright, the main things I've read of developer quotes is that:
    > <snip>
    >
    > It doesn't matter what's been said in interviews. Until we see the game, we
    > won't know what actually works well and what doesn't. Yes, I'm jaded. I've
    > read too many interviews with designers and developers (not just Bethesda)
    > that make it sound like every change they've made is fantastic and raises
    > the bar, blah, blah, blah.

    They're trying to build hype, sure. I'm just talking about what the
    changes will be and whether they sound good or not.

    > Then the game comes out and it ends up making a
    > nice coaster. So until I get a chance to play it, I'll reserve judgement.
    >
    > > There is, but then again it's a subjective value judgement. Unless the
    > > mechanisms are totally broken, people will like/dislike the game on
    > > personal taste. I think I'll like it a lot. There will be some
    > > grognards who will dislike it a lot just because it's not
    > > Arena/Daggerfall.
    >
    > Well, I liked Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind, but with every game, there
    > was room for improvement, and some things I loved in the previous game had
    > been removed (or didn't work as well) in the next one. That's why I'll
    > reserve judgement until I actually play Oblivion. The original question was
    > Can Oblivion be as good as Morrowind. The answer is yes. It could also be
    > better--or worse.

    Indeed.
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Paul Fedorenko wrote:
    > "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    > news:xFeHe.53573$5N3.41959@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > >> for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    > >> sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    > >> your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    > >> Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
    >
    > And how much should a dai-katana weigh? Ever held a sword?

    Yes. And very few of them outside of ceremonial ones weigh more than
    10 pounds or so. Think about it: you're swinging around a piece of
    metal for and have to make cuts within a second or so, and do so
    accurately. Even in Europe (where the swords are stereotyped to be
    huge hunks of metal), it took a good ammount of skill to use a sword
    effectively. They didn't just hack and slash.

    > Like, a
    > properly made one, not some cheap knock-off replica bought at a knife shop
    > or something like that.

    The replicas are usually heavier than the ones used by swordsmen.
    Especially swords used in combat, since utility was important. Nobody
    would use a weapon too heavy to wield.

    >A katana is a heavy piece of metal. and they're
    > only about 3.5 feet long with a thin blade, and can be wielded
    > single-handed. Give it a bigger, broader blade and heavier grip to balance
    > it like you'd have in a dai-katana and you'd have a monster.

    Alright, you might want to look elsewhere than a D&D manual for weights
    of swords. Very few ever hit 10 pounds or above. Lift up a 50 pound
    barbel. Imagine trying to swing that around and trying to move it with
    skill to the point where you got maybe a second or so to deal a killing
    strike with accuracy against another skilled opponent. While in armor.
    A wielder would have to be incredibly strong and have superhuman
    endurance to do it. I know Morrowind is fantasy, but the weight is
    just ridiculous.

    It's highly debated just how heavy they are (and I'm no expert), but
    every time I see this show up in places like rec.games.frp.dnd, the
    ones who know it well talk about how weights in fantasy books of
    weapons are way off. They're a lot lighter than you think (nowhere
    close to 60 pounds):

    http://www.knight2day.com/weapons.html

    http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/shield_and_weapon_weights.html

    http://www.thehaca.com/essays/weights.htm
    Quote:

    >From ordinary hands-on experience we know full well that swords were
    not excessively heavy nor did they weigh 10 or 15 pounds and more.
    There is only so many ways we can repeat how these weapons were not at
    all heavy or ungainly. Remarkably, while one would think a crucial
    piece of information as the weight of swords would be of great interest
    to arms curators and arms historians, there is no major reference book
    that actually lists the weights of different types. Perhaps this vacuum
    of documented evidence is part of the very problem surrounding the
    issue. However, there are a few respected sources that do give some
    valuable statistics. For example, the lengthy catalog of swords from
    the famed Wallace Collection Museum in London readily lists dozens of
    fine specimens among which it is difficult to find any weighing in
    excess of 4 pounds. Indeed, the majority of specimens, from arming
    swords to two-handers to rapiers, weigh much less than three pounds.


    Katanas that were used for combat also are very light, around 1-4
    pounds, as many sites which sell them will show:

    http://www.mantisswords.com/iaito_katanas.htm

    As well as the experts:

    http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm
    Quote:

    Knightly blades could be excellent swords, but are often denigrated
    merely as crude hunks of iron while samurai swords are venerated and
    exalted sometimes to the point of absurdity by collectors and
    enthusiasts (something the Japanese themselves do not discourage). Bad
    films and poorly trained martial artists reinforce this myth. The
    bottom line is that Medieval swords were indeed well-made, light, agile
    fighting weapons equally capable of delivering dismembering cuts or
    cleaving deep into body cavities. They were far from the clumsy, heavy
    things they're often portrayed as in popular media and far, far more
    than a mere "club with edges." Interestingly, the weight of katanas
    compared to longswords is very close with each on average being less
    than 4 pounds.
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1123202953.076612.211040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

    > They're trying to build hype, sure. I'm just talking about what the
    > changes will be and whether they sound good or not.

    I've been reading the interviews with interest. Some of the changes sound
    great if they're implemented properly; a couple have me worried but I'm
    willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I get my hands on the
    game.
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On 4 Aug 2005 17:35:21 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > Michael W. Ryder wrote:

    >> Where are you seeing this improved depth? They improved the graphics
    >> and took out most of the scenery. The interaction with NPCs is much
    >> worse than Arena or Daggerfall.
    >
    > That's a subjective value judgement. If you like the earlier two
    > better, cool. I thought Morrowind was more unique and that each major
    > town had a distinct flavor. Never got that from Daggerfall from what I
    > remember. It's been 8 years since I played it.

    Well, in terms of architecture etc, Daggerfall had 4 climates: Mountain,
    temperate, desert and jungle. Morrowind has 3 factions with distinct
    architecture. But Daggerfall had dozens of cities in each such zone,
    while Morrowind only has a couple. There are more unique NPCs in
    Morrowind (only the main quest NPCs were unique in Daggerfall) but this is
    not always a good thing. They are scripted, so once you're done with them,
    they become less than the cardboard characters in DF, who would at least
    give you jobs and keep you oriented on the faction wars that always
    plagued the lands.

    The Radiant AI of Oblivion promises to put an end to pure scripting, and
    we may see traveling rumors. This is good, if they manage to implement
    it. It could easily be better than any of the earlier games, but I reserve
    my optimism until I see a serious preview rather than a trailer that is
    mostly art display.

    > There were ships and silt striders in MW. The weight to gold being
    > nixed isn't all that bad, IMO.

    The ships and silt striders were basically teleport devices except they
    did subtract some hours.


    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Sarah wrote:
    > <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1123202953.076612.211040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > > They're trying to build hype, sure. I'm just talking about what the
    > > changes will be and whether they sound good or not.
    >
    > I've been reading the interviews with interest. Some of the changes sound
    > great if they're implemented properly; a couple have me worried but I'm
    > willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I get my hands on the
    > game.

    I know what you're saying. I remember the hype before Fable about how
    that was going to be the most "open ended" RPG and it turned out to be
    a really short game (according to those who bought it and were
    dissapointed).
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Magnus Itland wrote:
    > On 4 Aug 2005 17:35:21 -0700, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > > Michael W. Ryder wrote:
    >
    > >> Where are you seeing this improved depth? They improved the graphics
    > >> and took out most of the scenery. The interaction with NPCs is much
    > >> worse than Arena or Daggerfall.
    > >
    > > That's a subjective value judgement. If you like the earlier two
    > > better, cool. I thought Morrowind was more unique and that each major
    > > town had a distinct flavor. Never got that from Daggerfall from what I
    > > remember. It's been 8 years since I played it.
    >
    > Well, in terms of architecture etc, Daggerfall had 4 climates: Mountain,
    > temperate, desert and jungle. Morrowind has 3 factions with distinct
    > architecture. But Daggerfall had dozens of cities in each such zone,
    > while Morrowind only has a couple. There are more unique NPCs in
    > Morrowind (only the main quest NPCs were unique in Daggerfall) but this is
    > not always a good thing. They are scripted, so once you're done with them,
    > they become less than the cardboard characters in DF, who would at least
    > give you jobs and keep you oriented on the faction wars that always
    > plagued the lands.
    >
    > The Radiant AI of Oblivion promises to put an end to pure scripting, and
    > we may see traveling rumors. This is good, if they manage to implement
    > it. It could easily be better than any of the earlier games, but I reserve
    > my optimism until I see a serious preview rather than a trailer that is
    > mostly art display.
    >

    The trailers are more about showing off the graphics than the gameplay.
    It will be a tough call to see just how good the Radiant AI is until
    you put a few hours in game observing it. I think the talk I heard
    about enemies picking up swords and attacking sounds just too cool.

    > > There were ships and silt striders in MW. The weight to gold being
    > > nixed isn't all that bad, IMO.
    >
    > The ships and silt striders were basically teleport devices except they
    > did subtract some hours.
    >

    Sometimes that isn't bad. I'm glad they got a fast travel map this
    time around because I don't want to have to walk everywhere. I also
    hope they have the ability to use mark/recall in more than one spot.
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    I completely agree with your comments. Just wanted to add a link to a "real"
    swordsmith --- http://www.thaitsuki.com/ktn1.shtml

    hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:

    :
    :Paul Fedorenko wrote:
    :> "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    :> news:xFeHe.53573$5N3.41959@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    :>
    :> >> for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
    :> >> sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
    :> >> your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
    :> >> Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
    :>
    :> And how much should a dai-katana weigh? Ever held a sword?
    :
    :Yes. And very few of them outside of ceremonial ones weigh more than
    :10 pounds or so. Think about it: you're swinging around a piece of
    :metal for and have to make cuts within a second or so, and do so
    :accurately. Even in Europe (where the swords are stereotyped to be
    :huge hunks of metal), it took a good ammount of skill to use a sword
    :effectively. They didn't just hack and slash.
    :
    :> Like, a
    :> properly made one, not some cheap knock-off replica bought at a knife shop
    :> or something like that.
    :
    :The replicas are usually heavier than the ones used by swordsmen.
    :Especially swords used in combat, since utility was important. Nobody
    :would use a weapon too heavy to wield.
    :
    :>A katana is a heavy piece of metal. and they're
    :> only about 3.5 feet long with a thin blade, and can be wielded
    :> single-handed. Give it a bigger, broader blade and heavier grip to balance
    :> it like you'd have in a dai-katana and you'd have a monster.
    :
    :Alright, you might want to look elsewhere than a D&D manual for weights
    :of swords. Very few ever hit 10 pounds or above. Lift up a 50 pound
    :barbel. Imagine trying to swing that around and trying to move it with
    :skill to the point where you got maybe a second or so to deal a killing
    :strike with accuracy against another skilled opponent. While in armor.
    : A wielder would have to be incredibly strong and have superhuman
    :endurance to do it. I know Morrowind is fantasy, but the weight is
    :just ridiculous.
    :
    :It's highly debated just how heavy they are (and I'm no expert), but
    :every time I see this show up in places like rec.games.frp.dnd, the
    :ones who know it well talk about how weights in fantasy books of
    :weapons are way off. They're a lot lighter than you think (nowhere
    :close to 60 pounds):
    :
    :http://www.knight2day.com/weapons.html
    :
    :http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/shield_and_weapon_weights.html
    :
    :http://www.thehaca.com/essays/weights.htm
    :
    Quote:

    :>From ordinary hands-on experience we know full well that swords were
    :not excessively heavy nor did they weigh 10 or 15 pounds and more.
    :There is only so many ways we can repeat how these weapons were not at
    :all heavy or ungainly. Remarkably, while one would think a crucial
    :piece of information as the weight of swords would be of great interest
    :to arms curators and arms historians, there is no major reference book
    :that actually lists the weights of different types. Perhaps this vacuum
    :of documented evidence is part of the very problem surrounding the
    :issue. However, there are a few respected sources that do give some
    :valuable statistics. For example, the lengthy catalog of swords from
    :the famed Wallace Collection Museum in London readily lists dozens of
    :fine specimens among which it is difficult to find any weighing in
    :excess of 4 pounds. Indeed, the majority of specimens, from arming
    :swords to two-handers to rapiers, weigh much less than three pounds.
    :

    :
    :Katanas that were used for combat also are very light, around 1-4
    :pounds, as many sites which sell them will show:
    :
    :http://www.mantisswords.com/iaito_katanas.htm
    :
    :As well as the experts:
    :
    :http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm
    :
    Quote:

    :Knightly blades could be excellent swords, but are often denigrated
    :merely as crude hunks of iron while samurai swords are venerated and
    :exalted sometimes to the point of absurdity by collectors and
    :enthusiasts (something the Japanese themselves do not discourage). Bad
    :films and poorly trained martial artists reinforce this myth. The
    :bottom line is that Medieval swords were indeed well-made, light, agile
    :fighting weapons equally capable of delivering dismembering cuts or
    :cleaving deep into body cavities. They were far from the clumsy, heavy
    :things they're often portrayed as in popular media and far, far more
    :than a mere "club with edges." Interestingly, the weight of katanas
    :compared to longswords is very close with each on average being less
    :than 4 pounds.
    :
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1123204619.932414.199490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

    > Alright, you might want to look elsewhere than a D&D manual for weights
    > of swords. Very few ever hit 10 pounds or above. Lift up a 50 pound
    > barbel. Imagine trying to swing that around and trying to move it with

    I'm not looking in a D&D manual. I'm going on personal experience from
    trying out a katana in a kendo class. The thing was heavy. You're grossly
    underestimating with your guess of 10 pounds.
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Paul Fedorenko wrote:
    > I'd like to retract my previous post. It appears that I remembered the
    > katana feeling heavier than it actually was. I called my sensei and asked
    > him about the sword, he told me it weighed about four pounds. So it appears
    > my most humble of apologies are in order. Definitely less than ten pounds.
    > I guess, in hindsight, it makes sense.

    It probably seems heavier than 4 pounds if you wield it for a while.
    It also may have seemed heavier due to the sturdiness of the material.
    When I was in the US Army in basic, the Drill Daddies would have us
    hold out our boots in front of us for about 10 minutes a clip. They're
    only a couple pounds, but after two minutes or so your arms would start
    to ache.

    It's no biggy.
  39. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    I'd like to retract my previous post. It appears that I remembered the
    katana feeling heavier than it actually was. I called my sensei and asked
    him about the sword, he told me it weighed about four pounds. So it appears
    my most humble of apologies are in order. Definitely less than ten pounds.
    I guess, in hindsight, it makes sense.
  40. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    DeAnn wrote:
    > I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    > lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    > all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    > peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    > example--have only recently come out.

    Links?
  41. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:22:59 -0400, ToolPackinMama
    <laura@lauragoodwin.org> wrote:
    > DeAnn wrote:
    >> I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
    >> lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
    >> all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
    >> peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
    >> example--have only recently come out.
    >
    > Links?

    These should help (there may be others)

    Constance: http://lovkullen.net/Emma/Constance.htm
    Children: http://rethan-manor.net/Emma/Mirror/kids.htm
    (also take a look at the cute cats while you're there, OK?)
    Wizard's Islands: http://www.wizards-islands.com/wifeatures.htm

    --
    "When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
    good sign." -G
  42. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 06:50:46 +0200, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:

    >
    > John Doe wrote:
    >> <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1122795394.632236.192290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >> >
    >> > The Appalling Silence wrote:
    >> >> I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit
    >> through
    >> >> a
    >> >> computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without
    >> >> making
    >> >> it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know
    >> >> whether
    >> >> the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in
    >> my
    >> >> version - bummer, man!)
    >> >>
    >>
    >> No mods is one of the reasons that I've never liked consoles. That and
    >> their pathetic resolution.
    >
    > Xbox 360 will not have pathetic resolution. It's one powerful machine.
    > Maybe not as good resolution wise as a totally new top of the line
    > system, but the differences will be small when one sees Xbox 360 games
    > on an HDTV. And with Xbox Live and the harddrive, some mods may make
    > it onto the consoles in this generation.
    >

    That all depends on the compatibility between Construction Set for PC and
    xbox 360.
    The Construction Set will not be released for xbox 360. They will have to
    be made on PCs.


    --
    The turtle moves!
  43. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    Lasse B wrote:
    > On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 06:50:46 +0200, <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > John Doe wrote:
    > >> <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:1122795394.632236.192290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > >> >
    > >> > The Appalling Silence wrote:
    > >> >> I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit
    > >> through
    > >> >> a
    > >> >> computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without
    > >> >> making
    > >> >> it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know
    > >> >> whether
    > >> >> the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in
    > >> my
    > >> >> version - bummer, man!)
    > >> >>
    > >>
    > >> No mods is one of the reasons that I've never liked consoles. That and
    > >> their pathetic resolution.
    > >
    > > Xbox 360 will not have pathetic resolution. It's one powerful machine.
    > > Maybe not as good resolution wise as a totally new top of the line
    > > system, but the differences will be small when one sees Xbox 360 games
    > > on an HDTV. And with Xbox Live and the harddrive, some mods may make
    > > it onto the consoles in this generation.
    > >
    >
    > That all depends on the compatibility between Construction Set for PC and
    > xbox 360.
    > The Construction Set will not be released for xbox 360. They will have to
    > be made on PCs.
    >

    This is true, but I was talking more or less official things like
    patches and expansions. I don't see how it can't be done though given
    how Action Replay saves modded by computers can be used on Xbox without
    modding the 'box itself. It all depends on how much people know how to
    convert it.
  44. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    A little off topic, but the previous comment about "3d everything" fad
    just made me feel like shedding another tear for my beloved R-Type and
    Gradius games... And then there was what they did to Metroid... ouch.
    Don't get me wrong, I loved the first two 3d Zelda games, but they were
    about more than being 3D ZELDA GAMES... which I think is the first
    point of this whole post. a trend is rarely entirely a good or bad
    thing. Pokemon brought a new audience to RPGs, Morrowind brought a new
    audience to The Elder Scrolls. A large part of that audience were
    casual roleplayers and FPS gamers. Where do you think a lot of the
    knowledge of skinning and modifying 3d games game from? and where would
    Morrowind be without all those coveted beauty packs? Uglysville.

    I wish they'd just lose the completely voiced dialogue. Voice-overs in
    video games (games based on movies and voiced by the movie actors
    non-withstanding) were a bad idea in the first place. Cuts down so much
    on plot elements that it just isn't worth it. In that regard, I think
    morrowind was as much of a success in terms of interactive dialogue as
    it could have been. The characters talked, but most of the interactive
    dialogue was text. What would be cool in Oblivion or other games would
    be an evolution on that. let characters talk amongst themselves
    audible, heck even have them talk to you, but under no circumstances
    should the main character talk... I have never played any Final
    Fantasies beyond Nine for this reason alone. I tend to prefer my
    imagination to anyone's idea of what player characters should sound
    like.

    I myself never played Daggerfall and played Arena for the first time
    when it became public domain. AFTER I first played Morrowind. As long
    as Bethesda never forgets its fans or its roots, I think we'll all be
    quite pleased with Oblivion.

    R-Type... may ye rest in peace...
  45. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
    news:1123130830.698773.78690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Magnus Itland wrote:
    >> On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700,
    <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    >> > Magnus Itland wrote:
    >>
    >> >> I must say that the toolbox that came with
    Morrowind have proved really
    >> >> useful. But I also agree that the game lacks
    randomness. In Daggerfall
    >> >> especially, it would not be possible to write a
    traditional walkthrough.
    >> >> You could do that with the main quest, but the
    main quest was such a
    >> >> small
    >> >> part of the experience. And you could make the
    most improbable
    >> >> characters,
    >> >> like a linguist with an allergy to certain
    metals but able to learn new
    >> >> skills at triple speed...
    >> >>
    >> >> In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set
    for Morrowind is necessary
    >> >> to
    >> >> bring back some of the randomness that was in
    the earlier games. And I
    >> >> must admit they've done some really impressive
    things with it. In
    >> >> fact, I
    >> >> am worried that having Oblivion come out this
    soon may put a stop to the
    >> >> Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start
    from scratch again with
    >> >> Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in
    the series, as it was
    >> >> planned from the very beginning. For that
    reason, I had actually
    >> >> expected
    >> >> - even hoped - that they would take some more
    time making it.
    >> >
    >> > Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half
    as good as the stuff
    >> > out there says it is (with perks being granted
    for each skill at
    >> > different levels), real physics, NPCs with
    actual character and
    >> > life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    >>
    >> The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with
    Oblivion. But of course
    >> they can just make a less dramatic ending than
    what has been implied so
    >> far, and continue to make new games.
    >>
    >
    > I'd think they'd be dumb to drop it at Oblivion
    without seeing where
    > sales leads. There's still a lot of places in that
    world to explore,
    > like Elsweyr and the Black Marsh. I'd like to see
    all of Nirn
    > eventually.
    >
    >> As for the game engine improvements, however, you
    can always make new
    >> improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in
    capacity, so things that
    >> are impossible this year are possible next year.
    So the longer you work
    >> until you release a new game, the more stunning it
    will be. You need to
    >> time it so that you release the new game just
    before people are fed up
    >> with the old. With all the new content made by
    fans, Morrowind could
    >> probably have lasted another year, and who knows
    what Oblivion could have
    >> been by then.
    >>
    >
    > I'm pretty bored with Morrowind, actually. I've
    done the MQ more than
    > a few times, all factions, the expansions, and
    tried many mods.
    > Oblivion could be put off for a decade and look a
    lot better than it
    > would if they put it off a year. From what I've
    read and seen of this
    > game, I think it's going to be a game that blows
    many people away.
    > Besides, new single player CRPGs right now are
    pretty scarce, with
    > Neverwinter Nights 2 being the only other one I'm
    looking forward to in
    > the forseeable future.
    >

    There is no need to close the elderscrolls saga
    completely. As you said, we haven't been in Elsweyr
    or Black Marsh yet. We haven't been at Sumurset
    Island
    either - or in Hammerfell, for that matter

    merlin
  46. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    <hayes13@fadmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
    news:1122795852.264152.149870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Sarah wrote:
    >> "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net>
    wrote in message
    >>
    news:LNcGe.503848$cg1.176670@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >>
    >> > In Arena obtaining one artifact was a major
    accomplishment. Also
    >> > obtaining a full set of good armor was another
    accomplishment. You could
    >> > not go into tomb X and obtain a full set of
    ebony armor. You had to go to
    >> > a very large number of stores buying it piece by
    piece.
    >>
    >> That's one thing that wasn't so great about
    Morrowind. Part way through the
    >> game, you can practically ignore loot because
    there's so much of it.
    >>
    >> > The graphics in Morrowind are much better, but
    that isn't enough. There
    >> > needs to be randomness so when you play you
    don't automatically go to tomb
    >> > X and get ring Y, all at first level. I loved
    having to find the rumors
    >> > of someone who may know something about an
    artifact. Then having to find
    >> > the map to the actual location of the artifact.
    It could take hours of
    >> > playing to get an artifact, rather than minutes.
    And you had no idea what
    >> > artifacts, if any, you could find.
    >>
    >> A certain degree of randomness would be nice.
    Bethesda tends to recreate
    >> the wheel with each game based on comments about
    the previous one. Usually,
    >> some things are improved and others are worsened.
    Daggerfall players
    >> complained that the dungeons were too random (a
    valid complaint) and that
    >> magic was too overpowering (another valid
    complaint). So with Morrowind,
    >> they cut down on randomness and gimped magic. Now
    the pendulum will swing
    >> back a little in Oblivion.
    >>
    >> Can Oblivion be as good as or better than
    Morrowind? Yes--I hope it is. I
    >> love Morrowind, but there's room for improvement.
    >
    > I don't think you have much to worry about. It's a
    lot larger than
    > Morrowind (smaller than Daggerfall) and the NPCs
    have life-cycles. The
    > main thing I heard it will have less of will be
    total number of NPCs,
    > but then again most of Morrowind's NPCs simply
    stood there, even if you
    > went upstairs and looted their house. I'm really
    looking forward to
    > the stealth aspect.
    >
    Both in DF and in MW the npc's and guards seems to
    have a problem with stairs. It might have presented a
    programming problem. And in MW we have used the
    'out of sight - out of mind' thing in order to steal
    some
    object from right under their noses. Maybe the AI
    only works on the horisontal level

    merlin
  47. Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:44:53 +0200, Merlin <bech_dokNOSPAM@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >
    > <hayes13@fadmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
    > news:1123130830.698773.78690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > > Magnus Itland wrote:
    > >> On 31 Jul 2005 00:40:31 -0700,
    > <hayes13@fadmail.com> wrote:
    > >> > Magnus Itland wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >> I must say that the toolbox that came with
    > Morrowind have proved really
    > >> >> useful. But I also agree that the game lacks
    > randomness. In Daggerfall
    > >> >> especially, it would not be possible to write a
    > traditional walkthrough.
    > >> >> You could do that with the main quest, but the
    > main quest was such a
    > >> >> small
    > >> >> part of the experience. And you could make the
    > most improbable
    > >> >> characters,
    > >> >> like a linguist with an allergy to certain
    > metals but able to learn new
    > >> >> skills at triple speed...
    > >> >>
    > >> >> In a way, the Elder Scrolls construction set
    > for Morrowind is necessary
    > >> >> to
    > >> >> bring back some of the randomness that was in
    > the earlier games. And I
    > >> >> must admit they've done some really impressive
    > things with it. In
    > >> >> fact, I
    > >> >> am worried that having Oblivion come out this
    > soon may put a stop to the
    > >> >> Morrowind mods, and then we will have to start
    > from scratch again with
    > >> >> Oblivion. Hopefully this will be the last in
    > the series, as it was
    > >> >> planned from the very beginning. For that
    > reason, I had actually
    > >> >> expected
    > >> >> - even hoped - that they would take some more
    > time making it.
    > >> >
    > >> > Why should it be the last? If Oblivion is half
    > as good as the stuff
    > >> > out there says it is (with perks being granted
    > for each skill at
    > >> > different levels), real physics, NPCs with
    > actual character and
    > >> > life-cycles, it should be a vast improvement.
    > >>
    > >> The Elder Scrolls was planned to conclude with
    > Oblivion. But of course
    > >> they can just make a less dramatic ending than
    > what has been implied so
    > >> far, and continue to make new games.
    > >>
    > >
    > > I'd think they'd be dumb to drop it at Oblivion
    > without seeing where
    > > sales leads. There's still a lot of places in that
    > world to explore,
    > > like Elsweyr and the Black Marsh. I'd like to see
    > all of Nirn
    > > eventually.
    > >
    > >> As for the game engine improvements, however, you
    > can always make new
    > >> improvements. Every 18 months the chips double in
    > capacity, so things that
    > >> are impossible this year are possible next year.
    > So the longer you work
    > >> until you release a new game, the more stunning it
    > will be. You need to
    > >> time it so that you release the new game just
    > before people are fed up
    > >> with the old. With all the new content made by
    > fans, Morrowind could
    > >> probably have lasted another year, and who knows
    > what Oblivion could have
    > >> been by then.
    > >>
    > >
    > > I'm pretty bored with Morrowind, actually. I've
    > done the MQ more than
    > > a few times, all factions, the expansions, and
    > tried many mods.
    > > Oblivion could be put off for a decade and look a
    > lot better than it
    > > would if they put it off a year. From what I've
    > read and seen of this
    > > game, I think it's going to be a game that blows
    > many people away.
    > > Besides, new single player CRPGs right now are
    > pretty scarce, with
    > > Neverwinter Nights 2 being the only other one I'm
    > looking forward to in
    > > the forseeable future.
    > >
    >
    > There is no need to close the elderscrolls saga
    > completely. As you said, we haven't been in Elsweyr
    > or Black Marsh yet. We haven't been at Sumurset
    > Island
    > either - or in Hammerfell, for that matter
    >
    > merlin
    >

    Nowhere does it say that games set in Tamriel is not a possibility. The
    Elderscrolls Saga was set to close with Oblivion. Two different things.
    There's loads of lore and backstory for a ton of games. ;)


    --
    The turtle moves!
  48. played it and it is much better
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