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15000 foot home

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  • Wireless Network
  • Linksys
  • Wireless Networking
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Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 7:27:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
did NOT do anything at all.

Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
wireless.

More about : 15000 foot home

December 17, 2004 7:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

Hi
I doubt that under the condition described by you a regular Wireless would
work (the booster/repeaters are solution to extract few feet here and
there).

Basically 15000' might be achieved with clear line of sight and two good
directional Antennae.

Since you do not have Line of Site you have to create one with Towers or
Relay Stations.

In other words it can be done special expensive installation.

Look at the following pages it would explain the basic ideas of Bridging.

Extending Distance: http://www.ezlan.net/Distance.html

Wireless Bridging: http://www.ezlan.net/bridging1.html

Jack (MVP-Networking).



"KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote in message
news:o etwd.843$iC4.705@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
> (Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
PLENTY
> of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but
it
> did NOT do anything at all.
>
> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
> wireless.
>
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 7:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

Try this idea: http://techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51071

Carey

"KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote in message
news:o etwd.843$iC4.705@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
>of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
>did NOT do anything at all.
>
> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
> wireless.
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 7:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:27:26 GMT, "KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote:

>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
>of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
>did NOT do anything at all.

Power amps don't work. Let's say you install the worlds biggest
illegal overpowered amplifier on the sole access point. It now
transmits huge amounts of RF and has fantastic transmit range. Just
one problem. It can't hear any better than the original access point,
which is already at the limit of receiver sensitivity. So, the
wireless client radios (laptops and PDA's) are still running an
insipid +15dBm and have no more range than before. The clients can
hear the overpowered access point, but the access point can't hear
them. Range is exactly the same as without the amplifier.

>Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
>wireless.

1. Lots of access points with a wired (CAT5) backbone. If the wired
backbone is a problem, look into AC power line backbone.
http://www.homepna.org
The catch is that such a backbone is very slow.

2. Wireless store and forward repeaters using WDS (wireless
distribution something). Each box can act as an access point and a
repeater simultaneously. Big problem is that each hop cuts your
bandwidth in half.

3. CATV antenna system. I'm not very proud of this install, but it
did sorta work. Customer had duplex RG-6/u coax in the walls. Since
they only needed one coax cable, I borrowed the 2nd coax for wireless.
I made some cute little 2.4GHz antennas with F connectors, and shoved
them into the wall plate receptacles. The coax cables went a central
location when they came together at two access points and a rather
ugly power splitter. The longest run was about 50ft. The losses were
horrible but the numbers showed that it should work at close range (<
15ft). It worked.

4. HVAC waveguide. Another of my butcher jobs that should not have
worked, but did. This was a hospital that required 17 signatures and
divine intervention to make any mechanical or electrical changes. I
decided that since each room had a nice convenient sheet metal HVAC
duct, I could use the whole HVAC system as a wireless distribution
system. I built a rather ugly horn antenna and used it to feed the
ducting. Useable range limit was about 500ft plus about 10ft in each
room. The grills forced horizontal polarization. It worked fairly
well for about 9 months until the safety people decided that I might
be ionizing the air or something and demanded that I remove the horn.
However, by that time, a proper access point and CAT5 backbone system
was approved and budgeted.

5. Illuminate from outside. Big houses tend to have big picture
windows. I lit up one large mansion, by placing a single access point
and directional sector antenna on a nearby garage roof. The other
side of the house was similarly illuminated from a storage shed in the
yard. I had to add a few access points inside for hallways,
stairwells, and inside storage areas. It's so much easier to go
through outside glass, than through inside walls. Watch out for metal
venetian blinds that will force horizontal polarization.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
December 17, 2004 7:27:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

Jack wrote:

> Hi
> I doubt that under the condition described by you a regular Wireless
> would work (the booster/repeaters are solution to extract few feet
> here and there).
>
> Basically 15000' might be achieved with clear line of sight and two
> good directional Antennae.
>
> Since you do not have Line of Site you have to create one with Towers
> or Relay Stations.
>
> In other words it can be done special expensive installation.
>
> Look at the following pages it would explain the basic ideas of
> Bridging.
>
> Extending Distance: http://www.ezlan.net/Distance.html
>
> Wireless Bridging: http://www.ezlan.net/bridging1.html
>
> Jack (MVP-Networking).
>
>
>
> "KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:o etwd.843$iC4.705@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless
>> network (Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE
>> HOME with
> PLENTY
>> of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater,
>> but
> it
>> did NOT do anything at all.
>>
>> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must
>> be wireless.
>>
>>

In addition to what Jack said, I also had a client recently where we
installed a wireless router. Their house wasn't quite as big as your
client's - "only" 11,000 sq. ft. Really, really big. We looked into
getting an omni directional antenna. The one we looked at for the
client was a 4 ft. high "stick" that attached to one of the router's
antennas (you need a router where you can unscrew the existing one).
You can either build a stand for the antenna or hang it from the
ceiling. Our client wasn't interested in that, so we dropped it.

Here's the one we were looking at, but there are others (and of course I
don't know where you live - I'm in the US):
http://www.radiolabs.com/products/antennas/2.4gig/11dbo...

If you Google for "omni directional antenna", you'll get some more
ideas. Charge a lot, and make sure not to make *any* guarantees because
no one will guarantee that the wireless signal will get everywhere in
the house because it is so dependent on location, what the signal has
to pass through, etc.

Good luck.
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"
December 17, 2004 7:27:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

Jack wrote:
> Hi
> I doubt that under the condition described by you a regular Wireless would
> work (the booster/repeaters are solution to extract few feet here and
> there).
>
> Basically 15000' might be achieved with clear line of sight and two good
> directional Antennae.
<snip>

I think he meant "square feet".
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 8:03:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

You will probably need to install a number of access points in various parts
of the house and hardwire them together.

Mike Schumann

"KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote in message
news:o etwd.843$iC4.705@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with PLENTY
>of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but it
>did NOT do anything at all.
>
> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
> wireless.
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 8:27:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

Wow, I been looking at something like this...but here's a question. Based
on that suggestion for Powerline networking or extending, does it require a
PC dedicated for the powerline adapters? Or is it required just to
configure them then you can turn of that machine you used to configure?

What I plan is this -

(1) Install an wireless access point/router to the cable modem
(2) Install 2-3 powerline adapters
(3) On the third powerline adapter (other end of the house), hang off the
second wireless access point.

The main thing here is that hopefully that you do not need the machine to
stay on (the one used to configure the powerline adapters). Can someone
clarify this?



"Carey Holzman" <carey@careyholzman.com> wrote in message
news:%23bpWtd$4EHA.3828@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Try this idea: http://techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51071
>
> Carey
>
> "KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:o etwd.843$iC4.705@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
>>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
>>PLENTY of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys
>>Booster/Repeater, but it did NOT do anything at all.
>>
>> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
>> wireless.
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 8:27:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

I don't know enough about it, but in the forums where that article is posted
you can leave a question and perhaps the author of that article will answer
it.

Or maybe someone here knows...

"Alan Wen" <alan.wen@apachecorp.com> wrote in message
news:l7uwd.854$iC4.383@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> Wow, I been looking at something like this...but here's a question. Based
> on that suggestion for Powerline networking or extending, does it require
> a PC dedicated for the powerline adapters? Or is it required just to
> configure them then you can turn of that machine you used to configure?
>
> What I plan is this -
>
> (1) Install an wireless access point/router to the cable modem
> (2) Install 2-3 powerline adapters
> (3) On the third powerline adapter (other end of the house), hang off the
> second wireless access point.
>
> The main thing here is that hopefully that you do not need the machine to
> stay on (the one used to configure the powerline adapters). Can someone
> clarify this?
>
>
>
> "Carey Holzman" <carey@careyholzman.com> wrote in message
> news:%23bpWtd$4EHA.3828@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Try this idea: http://techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51071
>>
>> Carey
>>
>> "KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:o etwd.843$iC4.705@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>>>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
>>>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
>>>PLENTY of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys
>>>Booster/Repeater, but it did NOT do anything at all.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
>>> wireless.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
December 17, 2004 10:07:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

What do you guys think of this?
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/reviews/article.php/3401501


"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:lqr4s019329jpjuf1uh4g4t031s2fqsli3@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:27:26 GMT, "KT" <kt@mail.com> wrote:
>
>>I have a client who wants to be able to use his existing wireless network
>>(Linksys 54G) from one end of his house to the other (HUGE HOME with
>>PLENTY
>>of barrier). We have tried putting in the Linksys Booster/Repeater, but
>>it
>>did NOT do anything at all.
>
> Power amps don't work. Let's say you install the worlds biggest
> illegal overpowered amplifier on the sole access point. It now
> transmits huge amounts of RF and has fantastic transmit range. Just
> one problem. It can't hear any better than the original access point,
> which is already at the limit of receiver sensitivity. So, the
> wireless client radios (laptops and PDA's) are still running an
> insipid +15dBm and have no more range than before. The clients can
> hear the overpowered access point, but the access point can't hear
> them. Range is exactly the same as without the amplifier.
>
>>Any suggestions to get Wireless to work this way? And please it must be
>>wireless.
>
> 1. Lots of access points with a wired (CAT5) backbone. If the wired
> backbone is a problem, look into AC power line backbone.
> http://www.homepna.org
> The catch is that such a backbone is very slow.
>
> 2. Wireless store and forward repeaters using WDS (wireless
> distribution something). Each box can act as an access point and a
> repeater simultaneously. Big problem is that each hop cuts your
> bandwidth in half.
>
> 3. CATV antenna system. I'm not very proud of this install, but it
> did sorta work. Customer had duplex RG-6/u coax in the walls. Since
> they only needed one coax cable, I borrowed the 2nd coax for wireless.
> I made some cute little 2.4GHz antennas with F connectors, and shoved
> them into the wall plate receptacles. The coax cables went a central
> location when they came together at two access points and a rather
> ugly power splitter. The longest run was about 50ft. The losses were
> horrible but the numbers showed that it should work at close range (<
> 15ft). It worked.
>
> 4. HVAC waveguide. Another of my butcher jobs that should not have
> worked, but did. This was a hospital that required 17 signatures and
> divine intervention to make any mechanical or electrical changes. I
> decided that since each room had a nice convenient sheet metal HVAC
> duct, I could use the whole HVAC system as a wireless distribution
> system. I built a rather ugly horn antenna and used it to feed the
> ducting. Useable range limit was about 500ft plus about 10ft in each
> room. The grills forced horizontal polarization. It worked fairly
> well for about 9 months until the safety people decided that I might
> be ionizing the air or something and demanded that I remove the horn.
> However, by that time, a proper access point and CAT5 backbone system
> was approved and budgeted.
>
> 5. Illuminate from outside. Big houses tend to have big picture
> windows. I lit up one large mansion, by placing a single access point
> and directional sector antenna on a nearby garage roof. The other
> side of the house was similarly illuminated from a storage shed in the
> yard. I had to add a few access points inside for hallways,
> stairwells, and inside storage areas. It's so much easier to go
> through outside glass, than through inside walls. Watch out for metal
> venetian blinds that will force horizontal polarization.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
December 17, 2004 10:07:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:07:36 GMT, "Randy" <rcrose@varco.com> wrote:

>What do you guys think of this?
>http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/reviews/article.php/3401501

I think you mean:
http://www.cantenna.com
(The pigtail for $8 looks nice and cheap).

If you build or buy a properly designed coffee can antenna, you'll get
about 8dBi of gain:
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/pics/antennas/coffee24...
with about a -3dB beamwidth of about 90 degrees. This makes for a
great parabolic dish feed but not what I would consider a great
antenna.

If you're going to burn $50 for 8dBi ($6.25 per decibel), then you can
do better with a panel antenna at $45 for 13dBi ($3.46/dB). See:
http://www.fab-corp.com/J1.htm
Maybe $53 for 19dBi ($2.79/dB) is even a better deal.

If you like building antennas, a proper biquad antenna:
http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
will get you 11dBi for perhaps $10 in parts.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
!