Where EQ2 stumbles

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Where? The reward structure for soloing.

First a quick comparison.

EQ1 number of kills solo to get through level 43: ~60
EQ2 number of kills solo to get through level 25: ~400

EQ1 was mostly against blue con mobs (near but lower than my
character's level). EQ2 was against mostly yellow con mobs (near but
above).

The disparity is staggering, and this is at barely more than half the
level. Some quest experience in there will help out in EQ2 but not by
much - at that level only the best quests give more than 5% of a
level, and usually its more like 2-3%. As a soloer, and playing more
than casually but not to extremes, I could get a level a day
comfortably in EQ1. If I actually had the patience to do it solo all
the time in EQ2 it would take three times as long and that's at barely
above newbie levels.

Basically, soloing is nonviable in EQ2. Now don't get me wrong,
soloing should not be *better* than grouping like it is in WoW until
its endgame (and in some ways even then). That causes so many problems
of its own its an even worse situation. It caused enough problems in
old days of EQ1 when only two classes could actually solo faster than
group, let alone *all* of them. But it has to be at least worth doing
as an option. In EQ1, soloing rarely got you any loot worthwhile (a
few exceptions but basically it was very rare in comparison to what a
group could get). Your reward tended to be experience. And a group
could get experience faster than anyone outside of a charmsoloing (not
DC) enchanter or swarmkiting bard. But you could still *get*
experience as a soloer and progress well that way.

I fully understand and support the "grouping > soloing" concept. But
when "soloing = 0", it's gone too far. I just don't want to bother
with a group all that often. Too many of the other players are
retards, and that goes for pretty much every online game. I had the
patience to grind my way mostly solo through L59 in EQ1 back when
there was no one in my class at L60 on my server and levels were still
a major part of progression. It took two weeks (for that one level).
So I have the patience if I want to get through it. But that was one
level with the lure of no more leveling after it was done (this was
Velious era, no aa yet). It was not every single level from the end of
the early game on!

I like to twobox too, which would solve this problem. Except EQ2's
requirements are so high I can't run two instances of it on this
computer, and the computer, while not cutting edge, is still not that
shabby, certainly not in the upgrade range.

So I think I will not go past EQ2's free month. That is sad, because
it looked like a pretty cool world. I wanted to see more of it.


--

"Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin

 

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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:49:06 GMT, Ben Sisson
<ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrotCRIVE_E

>So I think I will not go past EQ2's free month. That is sad, because
>it looked like a pretty cool world. I wanted to see more of it.

You might wish to wait for the "more solo quests" promised Real Soon
Now. Real XP in EQ2 isn't from grinding, it's from quests.

Frig, I went from 63%at 16th level to Ding 17 by finishing the three
butterfly collection quests.

Lizard says: Never waste time killing anything you're not being
quested to kill, unless it's in between you and a quest target. (Or
you're helping a guildie do THEIR quests, in which case, try to pick
it up yourself.)
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com

 

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In article <8q8ar0dotttn9vkddt686apv45atcrs3f0@4ax.com>, Ben Sisson wrote:
> First a quick comparison.
>
> EQ1 number of kills solo to get through level 43: ~60
> EQ2 number of kills solo to get through level 25: ~400

Hmm....I seem to remember EQ1 taking more mobs than that at those levels,
but I was soloing a Wizard, and probably couldn't take as high a blue as
you.

Anyway...what about the downtime? From what I've seen so far in EQ2,
downtime between fights is much lower than in EQ1. Given in both games a
place with an ample supply of mobs, in which would it actually take longer
to level? (Again, this will probably be class dependent...my Wizard had a
lot more downtime between mobs than, say, Druids).

--
--Tim Smith

 

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In article <8q8ar0dotttn9vkddt686apv45atcrs3f0@4ax.com>,
ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca says...
> Where? The reward structure for soloing.
>
> First a quick comparison.
>
> EQ1 number of kills solo to get through level 43: ~60
> EQ2 number of kills solo to get through level 25: ~400
>
> EQ1 was mostly against blue con mobs (near but lower than my
> character's level). EQ2 was against mostly yellow con mobs (near but
> above).
>
> The disparity is staggering, and this is at barely more than half the
> level. Some quest experience in there will help out in EQ2 but not by
> much - at that level only the best quests give more than 5% of a
> level, and usually its more like 2-3%. As a soloer, and playing more
> than casually but not to extremes, I could get a level a day
> comfortably in EQ1. If I actually had the patience to do it solo all
> the time in EQ2 it would take three times as long and that's at barely
> above newbie levels.
>
> Basically, soloing is nonviable in EQ2. Now don't get me wrong,
> soloing should not be *better* than grouping like it is in WoW until
> its endgame (and in some ways even then). That causes so many problems
> of its own its an even worse situation. It caused enough problems in
> old days of EQ1 when only two classes could actually solo faster than
> group, let alone *all* of them. But it has to be at least worth doing
> as an option. In EQ1, soloing rarely got you any loot worthwhile (a
> few exceptions but basically it was very rare in comparison to what a
> group could get). Your reward tended to be experience. And a group
> could get experience faster than anyone outside of a charmsoloing (not
> DC) enchanter or swarmkiting bard. But you could still *get*
> experience as a soloer and progress well that way.
>
> I fully understand and support the "grouping > soloing" concept. But
> when "soloing = 0", it's gone too far. I just don't want to bother
> with a group all that often. Too many of the other players are
> retards, and that goes for pretty much every online game. I had the
> patience to grind my way mostly solo through L59 in EQ1 back when
> there was no one in my class at L60 on my server and levels were still
> a major part of progression. It took two weeks (for that one level).
> So I have the patience if I want to get through it. But that was one
> level with the lure of no more leveling after it was done (this was
> Velious era, no aa yet). It was not every single level from the end of
> the early game on!
>
> I like to twobox too, which would solve this problem. Except EQ2's
> requirements are so high I can't run two instances of it on this
> computer, and the computer, while not cutting edge, is still not that
> shabby, certainly not in the upgrade range.
>
> So I think I will not go past EQ2's free month. That is sad, because
> it looked like a pretty cool world. I wanted to see more of it.

AS someone who doesn't play EQ2 those numbers are pretty
staggering...but there is a but:

I was under the impression that downtime in EQ2 is virtually
nonexistent. Such that in EQ1, my soloing character spends 75%+ of his
time regenning health/mana. Even at the low levels if I'm not being pok-
buff powerlevelled. Anyway, I'm suggesting that the number of kills you
get per hour soloing in EQ2 is 4x higher... so now its 240:400 instead
of 60:400. 240:400 isn't that bad, better than half, even. Plus you
"know" EQ1... maybe the best spots for soloing in EQ2 aren't known...
perhaps you could drag that 400 down a bit by heading 'elsewhere'. Or
perhaps your equipment isn't as good as it could be. Or you could be
doing more and or better quests.

And most importantly the real question is -why- does it matter if its
400 kills to break 25? Is there enough content that you can do 20 kills
in each of 20 places? Or are have you seen all there is to see of the
25th level game in 40 kills.

In EQ1, levelling has gotten too easy. People gain levels so fast they
miss huge chunks of content that would have been fun if they'd come out
of PC/OT to try them. Perhaps EQ2s approach of slowing it down is a
'good thing'??

 

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A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
name Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com>:

>In article <8q8ar0dotttn9vkddt686apv45atcrs3f0@4ax.com>, Ben Sisson wrote:
>> First a quick comparison.
>>
>> EQ1 number of kills solo to get through level 43: ~60
>> EQ2 number of kills solo to get through level 25: ~400
>
>Hmm....I seem to remember EQ1 taking more mobs than that at those levels,
>but I was soloing a Wizard, and probably couldn't take as high a blue as
>you.

I took that number from one of my logs from a character that never
ever grouped. I do remember it crossing into the 100 range at that
level when I was quadding (so fighting a low dark blue rather than a
high dark blue, just like your wizard). But the 60 number is more
valid - it was the upper limit of what that character could reliably
solo, just like the yellows in EQ2.


>Anyway...what about the downtime? From what I've seen so far in EQ2,
>downtime between fights is much lower than in EQ1. Given in both games a
>place with an ample supply of mobs, in which would it actually take longer
>to level? (Again, this will probably be class dependent...my Wizard had a
>lot more downtime between mobs than, say, Druids).

Its still there in EQ2, just lessoned. Compared to a like level EQ1
character, I don't think I could do much better than two yellows vs
one blue, and now we're talking about TEN TIMES more kills (it was,
iirc, about 30-40 kills per level in the 20s in EQ1).

Soloing in EQ2 just doesn't feel worth doing to me. That means I will
log out rather than solo, which is a mmorpg death sentence (again, for
me).

If I could still take group mobs at that level (green ^^ for example)
it would be a different story, since those gave enough exp to be worth
doing. It would still be over 100 kills I think, but you'd see the
progress. But I can't do it reliably, not without running out of
power. Perhaps I am doing something wrong, but that is not my
impression at all from what other people are saying.


--

"Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin

 

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Ben Sisson wrote:
> Where? The reward structure for soloing.
>

[snip]

>
> Basically, soloing is nonviable in EQ2.

Your analysis is basically correct, perhaps exaggerated just a
little -- I've been doing a little better soloing for exp than it
sounds like you have -- but only a little. However that's true
only if we solely considere adventuring (killing mobs).

The other side of the game -- tradeskilling -- is by definition a
solo activity, and it's already clear how much richer and better
developed that is than it was in EQ1. One clever way that it is
well thought-out is that it successfully involves even players
like me who have zero interest in actual tradeskilling [the idea
of spending recreation time virtually fashioning clothing and
potions via onscreen mouseclicks is to me preposterous]. It does
this through the harvesting of components for the actual
tradeskillers.

Tradeskillers need components which must be harvested out in the
wilds of the gameworld, something which is most easily done
by...adventurers like me. There is a dizzying variety of such
components, and knowing that tradeskillers will buy some of them
for quite high prices makes harvesting into sort of a solo
treasure hunt for us adventuring-oriented players. When I get into
a good group, I happily spend an evening adventuring and earning
experience levels. In between finding nice groups, I'll spend a
little time exploring the same zones harvesting, finding stuff
which I then sell and use to buy armor, spells, weapons, etc. So
I'm getting fun group playtime and fun solo playtime, without
actually becoming a tradeskiller. And I'm getting popular with my
tradeskiller clients too, which can't be a bad thing...


P.S. At release, this system had a bottleneck, which was needing
to level up your harvesting skills in the newbie zones too high in
order to start harvesting in the real hunting zones. So a couple
of weeks ago a few key newbie zones were getting crowded with
20something adventurers doing tedious harvesting in zones where
all the mobs were grayed out to them. However SOE has quickly
grasped the problem and cut the Tier 2 harvesting-skills threshold
in half, so that harvesting-leveling and experience-leveling now
advance together more or less -- I am harvesting in and around the
same mobs that when grouped I hunt for good experience.

 

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A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
name 42 <nospam@nospam.com>:

>I was under the impression that downtime in EQ2 is virtually
>nonexistent. Such that in EQ1, my soloing character spends 75%+ of his
>time regenning health/mana. Even at the low levels if I'm not being pok-
>buff powerlevelled. Anyway, I'm suggesting that the number of kills you
>get per hour soloing in EQ2 is 4x higher... so now its 240:400 instead
>of 60:400. 240:400 isn't that bad, better than half, even. Plus you
>"know" EQ1... maybe the best spots for soloing in EQ2 aren't known...
>perhaps you could drag that 400 down a bit by heading 'elsewhere'. Or
>perhaps your equipment isn't as good as it could be. Or you could be
>doing more and or better quests.

I don't agree with the amount of downtime you're suggesting for low
level EQ1 characters, but that aside, yes, EQ2 has less downtime, but
even if it had no downtime at all (which is not true) it would still
be taking way more than twice as long per level and I'm still talking
about a L25 EQ2 character vs a L43 EQ1.


>And most importantly the real question is -why- does it matter if its
>400 kills to break 25? Is there enough content that you can do 20 kills
>in each of 20 places? Or are have you seen all there is to see of the
>25th level game in 40 kills.

Remember its not a completely new game after I ding. I may not see all
of it in just L25, but believe me I have seen all of it from L20-30.

>
>In EQ1, levelling has gotten too easy. People gain levels so fast they
>miss huge chunks of content that would have been fun if they'd come out
>of PC/OT to try them. Perhaps EQ2s approach of slowing it down is a
>'good thing'??

I agree, make it slow enough so that they will 1. see the content, and
2. learn to play well enough to build on later, but EQ2 takes it too
far. Much too far.


--

"Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin

 

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A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
name Paul Botts <pauldotbotts@gmailspamthis.dotcom>:

>The other side of the game -- tradeskilling -- is by definition a
>solo activity, and it's already clear how much richer and better
>developed that is than it was in EQ1.

That may be true. I never have been a tradeskiller, in any game. In
game or in real life, if I want something, I tend to buy it, not make
it. Buying it takes a few seconds, making it... well, rather longer.



--

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"Ben Sisson" <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:qacar094752tbhvknlatbl5jic4iqhlff8@4ax.com...

>>The other side of the game -- tradeskilling -- is by definition a
>>solo activity, and it's already clear how much richer and better
>>developed that is than it was in EQ1.
>
> That may be true. I never have been a tradeskiller, in any game. In
> game or in real life, if I want something, I tend to buy it, not make
> it. Buying it takes a few seconds, making it... well, rather longer.

Take another look at Paul's message. It's not so much about the
tradeskilling itself, it's about the meta game of resource collecting. That
still may not be your thing but it is a whole other world of activity that
has its own significant rewards and rules of engagement, and definitely and
easily soloable. There's something very satisfying about working up each of
your respective gathering skills to enable finding the resources that are in
demand. And when you happen upon one of the really valuable rares, you have
the choice of profitting enormously (you can sell most of them for multiple
gold) or having a very powerful item made up for yourself by a crafter.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie

 

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A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
name Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>:

>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:49:06 GMT, Ben Sisson
><ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrotCRIVE_E
>
>>So I think I will not go past EQ2's free month. That is sad, because
>>it looked like a pretty cool world. I wanted to see more of it.
>
>You might wish to wait for the "more solo quests" promised Real Soon
>Now. Real XP in EQ2 isn't from grinding, it's from quests.
>
>Frig, I went from 63%at 16th level to Ding 17 by finishing the three
>butterfly collection quests.
>
>Lizard says: Never waste time killing anything you're not being
>quested to kill, unless it's in between you and a quest target. (Or
>you're helping a guildie do THEIR quests, in which case, try to pick
>it up yourself.)

All well and good but you'll run out of soloable quests in TS or Nek
*real* fast that way right now, other than the repeatable ones that
give almost nothing for reward.

We'll see how that patch coming Soon (tm) does then.


--

"Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin

 

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In article <fobar0157vbfb32onj5fm5bneca87ddnc4@4ax.com>,
ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca says...
> A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
> name 42 <nospam@nospam.com>:
>
> >I was under the impression that downtime in EQ2 is virtually
> >nonexistent. Such that in EQ1, my soloing character spends 75%+ of his
> >time regenning health/mana. Even at the low levels if I'm not being pok-
> >buff powerlevelled. Anyway, I'm suggesting that the number of kills you
> >get per hour soloing in EQ2 is 4x higher... so now its 240:400 instead
> >of 60:400. 240:400 isn't that bad, better than half, even. Plus you
> >"know" EQ1... maybe the best spots for soloing in EQ2 aren't known...
> >perhaps you could drag that 400 down a bit by heading 'elsewhere'. Or
> >perhaps your equipment isn't as good as it could be. Or you could be
> >doing more and or better quests.
>
> I don't agree with the amount of downtime you're suggesting for low
> level EQ1 characters,

Hmmm... I agree at the super low levels that's a bit high. But even in
my mid teens I'd fight for 15-20 seconds and then regen for 2 minutes.
(~15 mana per tic regen for 20 tics is only 300 mana... I'd easily burn
that in an 18 second solo fight in my teens)

> but that aside, yes, EQ2 has less downtime, but
> even if it had no downtime at all (which is not true) it would still
> be taking way more than twice as long per level

I was only guessing at your eq2 kill rate. But it sounds like you'd be
able to kill 150+ mobs in the amount of time it takes to kill 60 in EQ1?
Still leaves you a long way short of matching your EQ1 progress... but
its not quite the picture you originally painted.

> and I'm still talking
> about a L25 EQ2 character vs a L43 EQ1.

That a good point that was never clarified: Is that level progression
assumed or real? Do you perhaps need only 400 yellows at 43 in EQ2 too?
Or do you have reason to beleive that at 43 you'll need 800 or 1600
yellows to progress?
>
> >And most importantly the real question is -why- does it matter if its
> >400 kills to break 25? Is there enough content that you can do 20 kills
> >in each of 20 places? Or are have you seen all there is to see of the
> >25th level game in 40 kills.
>
> Remember its not a completely new game after I ding. I may not see all
> of it in just L25, but believe me I have seen all of it from L20-30.

Fair enough. Is this something you'd expect to be corrected in 2
expansions or perhaps, as some others have mentioned a few patches? Most
new release MMOGs are light on content particularly when compared to the
now venerable EQ1.

> >In EQ1, levelling has gotten too easy. People gain levels so fast they
> >miss huge chunks of content that would have been fun if they'd come out
> >of PC/OT to try them. Perhaps EQ2s approach of slowing it down is a
> >'good thing'??
>
> I agree, make it slow enough so that they will 1. see the content, and
> 2. learn to play well enough to build on later, but EQ2 takes it too
> far. Much too far.

As I see it, the real problem isn't that it takes a long time to level,
but rather that you've consumed all the content for you're level, and
will need to kill 400 mobs per level for the next five levels, before
you can consume new content... and the prospect of killing 2000 'same-
old' mobs is ... unattractive to say the least??

 

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"42" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c1ed8b953860594989901@shawnews...

> As I see it, the real problem isn't that it takes a long time to level,
> but rather that you've consumed all the content for you're level, and
> will need to kill 400 mobs per level for the next five levels, before
> you can consume new content... and the prospect of killing 2000 'same-
> old' mobs is ... unattractive to say the least??

This isn't a problem for people who group, they clearly have far more
choices at every stage but I can see that it's going to be a problem for the
soloer. I think it's true that EQ2 is even tougher on the soloer than EQ1,
at least at this stage in its evolution. This might change as they tweak
things but I wouldn't expect to see anything dramatic. EQ2 was clearly
designed with the grouped player in mind, despite SOE's claims of ample
soloability. It's not really viable if it requires killing the same thing
1000 times. I know I'd never put up with that.

That being said, I can't say enough about the amount of content in this game
for the grouped player. I just finished up some quests in Stormhold, a place
I thought I'd explored pretty thoroughly in beta. I'm now at the same level
I hit in beta at my highest (24) and just discovered a system of tunnels
below the armory that I never knew existed. Our group spent all night there,
making progress on two quests that had been rather elusive and mysterious,
and discovering a whole new world. We also hit the Tomb of Valor, an
instanced zone that I never got flagged for in beta. We wiped at the
entrance and there's an 8-hour lockout after exiting, so we'll have to try
it again tomorrow. At level 24 I haven't even been through this one dungeon
yet, let alone off the continent, and at 25 I can begin access quests that
will take me off the continent. And everything I'm experiencing on my
starting continent has an analog on the evil side of the world, so at best
I've hit some portion of only half the world.

Maybe SOE will introduce more content for soloers as the game evolves. Right
now it looks like the choice is either group up or face the 400 mobs at 25
syndrome. It's not a problem for me, but I can see how it will affect others
who want more pptions for soloing. God knows there are lots of morons out
there playing and every time I try a pickup group I'm reminded of why I'm
so lucky to be part of a group that has been together since EQ, DAoC, SWG,
and even CoH for some of us.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie

 

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"Ben Sisson" <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:qacar094752tbhvknlatbl5jic4iqhlff8@4ax.com...
> A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
> name Paul Botts <pauldotbotts@gmailspamthis.dotcom>:
>
> >The other side of the game -- tradeskilling -- is by definition a
> >solo activity, and it's already clear how much richer and better
> >developed that is than it was in EQ1.
>
> That may be true. I never have been a tradeskiller, in any game. In
> game or in real life, if I want something, I tend to buy it, not make
> it. Buying it takes a few seconds, making it... well, rather longer.
>
>
>
> --
>
> "Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin

I group for xp, solo to do certain quests (other quests fly by in a group),
and to tradeskill. Solo xp at my level (16 brawler) is not great, but i do
know heroic opportunities seem to solve the power issue. Of course, it would
also help to be able to see exactly the effect of different food drink to
regen rates.

I tend to like wandering about harvesting and bashing ... e.g. i have to
kill orc scouts, there's a line of nodes, i'll wander down the line
harvesting and slaying. The harvested items i've been trading straight away
for items or skills i need, using the crafters channel, although due to the
aforementioned lack of food/drink stats, no-one seems to be specialising in
it, so those items tend to get chucked.

If you want to make money and nothing else, you can make a lot solo, by
crafting and doing tasks for your wholesaler, but i am lazy. Collectables
and so forth do sell well.

Another thing about soloing in eq1 was that there used to be a lot of high
level mobs in low level zones... fighting orcs in the oasis, and being
trained by spectres! Now, if you are trained, who cares, leave the mobs
alone and they wander away. They have relatively short aggro radius so far.

I don't find the people on antonia bayle to be hard to group with at all, at
least in the commonlands. There is always someone starting up a group, and
if you don't have a perfect mix, it doesn't really matter. So long as you
have someone in the healing group of classes, someone to tank (as a brawler
i do ok, but i miss the eq1 feign death, eq2 watered it down), it's nothing
like eq1 where i might get turned down from a group.

The fact that a lot of people have as a quest "kill 30 orc pawns" means they
want as many people as possible, because whatever the individual xp is from
the pawn, it's the quest xp that is not divided. Besides, people get
obsessed with finishing quests and clearing out the journal. I do, anyhow.
The way you can rez a priest class if they cast this spell before hand is
funky, so if things wipe, i can fd, then rez the priest. This makes groups
very flexible and desirable.

If you don't like the people you are grouping with, try getting to know ppl
on the chat channels first, then grouping with them.

Good luck anyway, and use feedback politely with positive suggestions, and
they will listen and not dismiss you as a ratbag.

Eski 16 brawler 15 outfitter Antonia Bayle

 

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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 04:27:01 GMT, Ben Sisson
<ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrotCRIVE_E

>That may be true. I never have been a tradeskiller, in any game. In
>game or in real life, if I want something, I tend to buy it, not make
>it. Buying it takes a few seconds, making it... well, rather longer.
>

Ah. I love TSing. I played a tailor in UO and a weaponsmith in SWG,
and I'm torn between going for carpenter or cook in EQ2. Because of
the way the various buffs work in EQ2 TSing, it's a lot more like
combat than drag/click/repeat. (There's nothing like sitting there,
making your jum-jum pie, and seeing message like "So-and-so was hit
for 250 points of damage due to Frayed Material!" I've seen more
people die at sewing tables than at forges. Tragic.)
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com

 

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On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:16:51 -0800, Bob Perez wrote:

> "Ben Sisson" <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:qacar094752tbhvknlatbl5jic4iqhlff8@4ax.com...
>
>>>The other side of the game -- tradeskilling -- is by definition a
>>>solo activity, and it's already clear how much richer and better
>>>developed that is than it was in EQ1.
>>
>> That may be true. I never have been a tradeskiller, in any game. In
>> game or in real life, if I want something, I tend to buy it, not make
>> it. Buying it takes a few seconds, making it... well, rather longer.
>
> Take another look at Paul's message. It's not so much about the
> tradeskilling itself, it's about the meta game of resource collecting. That
> still may not be your thing but it is a whole other world of activity that
> has its own significant rewards and rules of engagement, and definitely and
> easily soloable. There's something very satisfying about working up each of
> your respective gathering skills to enable finding the resources that are in
> demand. And when you happen upon one of the really valuable rares, you have
> the choice of profitting enormously (you can sell most of them for multiple
> gold) or having a very powerful item made up for yourself by a crafter.

Eh, I don't buy that. It may be a metagame but that's not what I (or a
significant amount of others in my opinion) signed on for. It just smacks
of boring and taking the whack-a-mole gameplay to the extreme. Where is the
challenge of going from plains berry bush to sandwashed rock formation?
Granted, if there are baddies nearby you might have a challenge but isn't
that what the killing is for? In my opinion if you're falling back to this
excuse for a game you might as well wrap it up and hit cancel now. JMO
--
RJB
12/7/2004 9:21:23 AM

Sometimes the need to mess with their heads outweighs the millstone of
humiliation.
--Fox Mulder (X-Files)

 

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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:49:06 GMT, Ben Sisson
<ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>Basically, soloing is nonviable in EQ2.

Yep, a lot of the quests aren't completable solo, even when you're a
good few levels above the things you'll be killing.

In my case this isn't a problem - every Friday night my Guild gets
together, and we team up and do the quests we need teams for.

When alone, I'm usually OK, though - you just need to know where to go
in order to hunt. As a Rogue, however, I had a very hard time soloing
green++, who were the common target for people wanting loot, as they
were a lot more likely to drop chests.

I'm still undecided on the 'forced to group' thing - it's annoying,
and ties me into a gameplaying style I might not choose, but I DO have
fun when I team up with guildmates, and the loot drops fast and
furious when I do.

So far, so fun. I'm staying for another month, at least.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

 

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"Ben Sisson" <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
> name 42 <nospam@nospam.com>:
>
> >I was under the impression that downtime in EQ2 is virtually
> >nonexistent. Such that in EQ1, my soloing character spends 75%+ of his
> >time regenning health/mana. Even at the low levels if I'm not being pok-
> >buff powerlevelled. Anyway, I'm suggesting that the number of kills you
> >get per hour soloing in EQ2 is 4x higher... so now its 240:400 instead
> >of 60:400. 240:400 isn't that bad, better than half, even. Plus you
> >"know" EQ1... maybe the best spots for soloing in EQ2 aren't known...
> >perhaps you could drag that 400 down a bit by heading 'elsewhere'. Or
> >perhaps your equipment isn't as good as it could be. Or you could be
> >doing more and or better quests.
>
> I don't agree with the amount of downtime you're suggesting for low
> level EQ1 characters, but that aside, yes, EQ2 has less downtime, but
> even if it had no downtime at all (which is not true) it would still
> be taking way more than twice as long per level and I'm still talking
> about a L25 EQ2 character vs a L43 EQ1.

Thing is, though, what if you were comparing leveling a L25 EQ2 character
now to leveling a L25 EQ1 character 5 years ago? Can you honestly say that
5 years ago, less than ONE MONTH after the game opened, that people were
breezing through Level 25, and some people were already up to Level 40?

Problem is that I doubt you can answer the above question. I honestly doubt
that anyone can, unless they start up a bona-fide original-code server and
allow only true newbies (well, say, newbies with UO and M59 experience) onto
it.

Honestly, I think your comparison here is an apples / oranges thing.

 

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"dontemailme" <dontemailme@dontemailme.com> wrote

> Another thing about soloing in eq1 was that there used to be a lot of high
> level mobs in low level zones... fighting orcs in the oasis, and being
> trained by spectres! Now, if you are trained, who cares, leave the mobs
> alone and they wander away. They have relatively short aggro radius so
far.

Actually, I *liked* that in EQ1. Nothing keeps you on your toes at a boring
Orc1 camp in E Commons like knowing that there's not 1, but *2* griffons
currently flying around.


> Good luck anyway, and use feedback politely with positive suggestions, and
> they will listen and not dismiss you as a ratbag.

Optimist.

 

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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:47:49 GMT, "Ken Andrews" <gobble@degook.com>
wrotCRIVE_E

>Actually, I *liked* that in EQ1. Nothing keeps you on your toes at a boring
>Orc1 camp in E Commons like knowing that there's not 1, but *2* griffons
>currently flying around.

And there are similair hazards in the newbie zones in EQ2...I've seen
two Big Bads in the Peat Bog, one in the caves, and one in Oakmyst.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com

 

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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg Bob Perez <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledshadowpike> wrote:
: Take another look at Paul's message. It's not so much about the
: tradeskilling itself, it's about the meta game of resource collecting. That
: still may not be your thing but it is a whole other world of activity that
: has its own significant rewards and rules of engagement, and definitely and
: easily soloable. There's something very satisfying about working up each of
: your respective gathering skills to enable finding the resources that are in
: demand. And when you happen upon one of the really valuable rares, you have
: the choice of profitting enormously (you can sell most of them for multiple
: gold) or having a very powerful item made up for yourself by a crafter.

This reminds me considerably of the most recent changes to Horizons where
collection fields and initial processing machines are, for the most part,
swarmed with hordes of same Teir mobs. It's beyond me why SOE would want
to copy something as fubar as a Horizons design decision but this is
SOE.

K

 

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"Ben Sisson" <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:8q8ar0dotttn9vkddt686apv45atcrs3f0@4ax.com...
> Where? The reward structure for soloing.
>
> First a quick comparison.
> "Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin

Are you comparing to a twinked character in EQ1? Did you have gear, buffs,
potions etc.... that made soloing easier? That would come close to making
them comparable in terms of the time.

I guess you have to average out the time over all to level a character solo,
not simply compare one level to another. I know it's FAR easier to level a
character to 10 in EQ2 than in EQ1. I leveled my first character in EQ2 to
10th level in about 6 hours. Part of that time was spent looking around and
figuring out the various commands and wondows and stuff. I could NEVER have
levelled a non-twinked (not that I ever had the resources to do major
twinking anyway) character to 10 in 6 hours in EQ1.

Does it really slow THAT significantly when you hit 20 in EQ2?

What about finding a good solo camp? Since there are multiple instances is
it easier to get a good camp without waiting around or travelling so much?

What about MOB aggro? At lower levels at least there are far fewer MOBs that
aggro, so is it easier to find MOB's to solo like it is at low levels?

In the lower levels there are all those random exp bonuses, like "You have
found the Stone of Kaladim!" DING! Do you still get those into the teens and
20's?

So far I really like EQ2. I hope you are wrong about soloing because I
really like to solo and so far that's one of the things I like best about
the game at the lower levels.

 

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"Slapfish" <slapfish@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Nsntd.9692$714.392@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

>
> "Ben Sisson" <ilkhanikeDIESPAM@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:8q8ar0dotttn9vkddt686apv45atcrs3f0@4ax.com...
>> Where? The reward structure for soloing.
>>
>> First a quick comparison.
>> "Why stop now, just when I'm hating it?" - Marvin
>
> Are you comparing to a twinked character in EQ1? Did you have gear,
> buffs, potions etc.... that made soloing easier? That would come close
> to making them comparable in terms of the time.
>
> I guess you have to average out the time over all to level a character
> solo, not simply compare one level to another. I know it's FAR easier
> to level a character to 10 in EQ2 than in EQ1. I leveled my first
> character in EQ2 to 10th level in about 6 hours. Part of that time was
> spent looking around and figuring out the various commands and wondows
> and stuff. I could NEVER have levelled a non-twinked (not that I ever
> had the resources to do major twinking anyway) character to 10 in 6
> hours in EQ1.
>
> Does it really slow THAT significantly when you hit 20 in EQ2?
>
> What about finding a good solo camp? Since there are multiple
> instances is it easier to get a good camp without waiting around or
> travelling so much?
>
> What about MOB aggro? At lower levels at least there are far fewer
> MOBs that aggro, so is it easier to find MOB's to solo like it is at
> low levels?
>
> In the lower levels there are all those random exp bonuses, like "You
> have found the Stone of Kaladim!" DING! Do you still get those into
> the teens and 20's?
>
> So far I really like EQ2. I hope you are wrong about soloing because I
> really like to solo and so far that's one of the things I like best
> about the game at the lower levels.
>

Levelling to 10 in EQ1 is actually trivial since they changed the xp per
mob, and removed all death penalties below level 10.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont in <Bane of Evil>
Graeme, 17 Dwarven Shaman, 14 Scholar

 

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On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Ben Sisson wrote:

> Where? The reward structure for soloing.
>
> First a quick comparison.
>
> EQ1 number of kills solo to get through level 43: ~60
> EQ2 number of kills solo to get through level 25: ~400

My husband was soloing so that he could catch up to my level and we were
aghast at the disparity between "group" (ie, duo) xp and solo xp. As a
soloer he got .25% per solo encounter, encounters that were challenges for
a 19 bard, and he regularly came within a breath of dying. As a duo, able
to take on green "group" encounters, we got 2% per encounter and it took
us no more time to kill than his solo encounters.

Same amount of time...but .25% to 2%. That is ABSURD. SOE is going much
much too far on this.


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jerelyn Foxeye -- http://www.foxeye-art.com

On Antonia Bayle (EQ):
[20 Iksar Templar] Viizanafyaeth
[6 High Elf Fighter] Foxeye

On Order (Horizons):
[10 Monk/Druid Saris] Foxeye

 

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On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Bob Perez wrote:

> Redbeard
> <Veritas>
> Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
> Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
> Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
> http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Heyyy, you have Ixiss in your guild! She was the first iksar templar on
the server (I believe I was second), so she's sorta my hero right now. ^_^

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jerelyn Foxeye -- http://www.foxeye-art.com

On Antonia Bayle (EQ):
[20 Iksar Templar] Viizanafyaeth
[6 High Elf Fighter] Foxeye

On Order (Horizons):
[10 Monk/Druid Saris] Foxeye

 

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"Foxeye Vaeltaja" <foxeye@EEKSPAM.com> wrote in message
newsine.LNX.4.58.0412071337500.30395@bolt.sonic.net...

> Heyyy, you have Ixiss in your guild! She was the first iksar templar on
> the server (I believe I was second), so she's sorta my hero right now. ^_^

Aye, Ixiss is a great lass, we love her much.

Nice to see you tonight in the Crypt. We were just finishing up some AQ4 for
some guild folks when you ran by.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie