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Super Upgraded StarCraft AI Still Beat by Humans

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Anonymous
October 20, 2010 11:16:00 AM

remind me of the battles between a grandmaster of chess and an IBM supercomputer
October 20, 2010 11:16:42 AM

Do the AIs cheat?
October 20, 2010 11:22:16 AM

They will always be predictable because they are programmed
October 20, 2010 11:27:53 AM

thats why they are not exactly perfect AI.
I hope that they don't become that intelligent, than some day we may find our self in one of those terminator/Matrix movies like world.
October 20, 2010 11:30:46 AM

And blizzard never sued them for hacking the game?
October 20, 2010 11:42:01 AM

sudeshcthats why they are not exactly perfect AI. I hope that they don't become that intelligent, than some day we may find our self in one of those terminator/Matrix movies like world.


I just watched this last night... if they become self aware and we try to pull the plug, the worst this system can do now is release the Zerg on unsuspecting SCII players online...
October 20, 2010 11:59:36 AM

AI's can never be perfect,as they're programmed by humans.So,Other humans will always be able to beat it
October 20, 2010 11:59:48 AM

DAmn't sudesch stole my terminator reference lol. I was gona say maybe we can actually beat the termintors when they try to take over the world lol. Just send in some starcraft gamers.
October 20, 2010 12:03:15 PM

Well yeah, AI become pretty predictable in almost every game the more you play it.
Anonymous
October 20, 2010 12:07:35 PM

AI should be able to beat humans, if written correctly and efficiently.
AI has the advantage of processing speed, and almost zero delay between actions.

It's obvious that the guys who wrote the AI don't really know how StarCraft is played.
October 20, 2010 12:16:31 PM

cronik93Well yeah, AI become pretty predictable in almost every game the more you play it.

there's a number of AI systems that make sure that they do something slightly different each time. A bot in itself realizes, "I lost using this tactic, so follow tactic #2."
October 20, 2010 12:31:51 PM

wasn't this the plot for Terminator:SCC? We're thinking "Why not directly teach the AI war strategies to beat humans too?"
October 20, 2010 12:32:09 PM

will THEY get sued by Activision Blizzard for hacking StarCraft?
October 20, 2010 12:34:34 PM

icepick314 said:
will THEY get sued by Activision Blizzard for hacking StarCraft?

Of course, because their selling these to people to be used online?
*** off if you're going to post ass-hat comments, it's worse then trolling.
October 20, 2010 12:35:33 PM

stifleThey will always be predictable because they are programmed

Any competitive e-sports game I've ever seen is just as predictable as AIs, sometimes more so. You could probably macro fights at the top tier because the 'winning tactics' are incredibly limited and repetitive. It really only comes down to reflexes.
October 20, 2010 12:57:14 PM

youssef 2010AI's can never be perfect,as they're programmed by humans.So,Other humans will always be able to beat it


That's bull****, remember Deep Blue? AIs have far better clickspeeds and reaction times than humans, on that alone they should be able to best the world champion if they execute a perfect rush. The problem is AIs still lack human tactical intuition so they sometimes make dumb mistakes by not exploiting an undefended backdoor into a base or attacking a line of siege tanks from the front instead of the side.
October 20, 2010 1:09:30 PM

youssef 2010AI's can never be perfect,as they're programmed by humans.So,Other humans will always be able to beat it


The flaw in your logic is that, once an artificial intelligence is as sophisticated as human intelligence and the computer that it is running on is more powerful than a human brain, it will be able to create artificial intelligences that are more sophisticated than human intelligence.
October 20, 2010 1:12:41 PM

Gulli said:
That's bull****, remember Deep Blue? AIs have far better clickspeeds and reaction times than humans, on that alone they should be able to best the world champion if they execute a perfect rush. The problem is AIs still lack human tactical intuition so they sometimes make dumb mistakes by not exploiting an undefended backdoor into a base or attacking a line of siege tanks from the front instead of the side.

Normally, AI's in games like SC2 are programmed to build up their base and stay in a near perfect defensive state, or becoming aggresive at all times and sending rushes with a general increase of units and upgrades for them. If an AI worked like Deep Blue, then it would be increasingly impossible to win, as the AI would read the units outside of their natural FOV(which an AI is not supposedly able to read) and allow themselves to make a perfect counter attack.
October 20, 2010 1:14:23 PM

Quote:
The flaw in your logic is that, once an artificial intelligence is as sophisticated as human intelligence and the computer that it is running on is more powerful than a human brain, it will be able to create artificial intelligences that are more sophisticated than human intelligence.
The flaw in YOUR logic is that artificial intelligence will be as sophisticated as the human intelligence.
October 20, 2010 1:22:04 PM

f4phantom2500The flaw in your logic is that, once an artificial intelligence is as sophisticated as human intelligence and the computer that it is running on is more powerful than a human brain, it will be able to create artificial intelligences that are more sophisticated than human intelligence.


Human consciousness is small, but the processing required to create consciousness is vast. When we get to a point where we can actually create a machine more powerful then the human mind, we will probably have also had the technology to create a more powerful mind long before that point.
October 20, 2010 1:27:19 PM

chunkymonster said:
Quote:
The flaw in your logic is that, once an artificial intelligence is as sophisticated as human intelligence and the computer that it is running on is more powerful than a human brain, it will be able to create artificial intelligences that are more sophisticated than human intelligence.
The flaw in YOUR logic is that artificial intelligence will be as sophisticated as the human intelligence.

Just wait when someone creates an AI that reads data from everything online and filters it out to understand each thing. We'll get a psyciopathic AI that's smarter then humans.
In the sense that you stated, a high end AI built and programmed by one of the greatest minds in history at the time, wouldn't be able to outsmart an infant because the human mind is stronger then anything computer hardware can manage, even if the child is young and doesn't know how to read.
October 20, 2010 1:41:44 PM

IF StarCraft AI realized it can beat humans by hacking Starcraft servers.
what is Activision Blizzard going to do? sue themself?
October 20, 2010 1:54:07 PM

king_solomon said:
IF StarCraft AI realized it can beat humans by hacking Starcraft servers.
what is Activision Blizzard going to do? sue themself?

I would be damn impressed if Starcraft's AI was that much better then Starcraft's 2 AI.
October 20, 2010 1:55:01 PM

coodyremind me of the battles between a grandmaster of chess and an IBM supercomputer

I don't wanna be a douche, I just want to complement on your comment. You're talking about Garry Kasparov and Deep Blue in 1996 where the former won 4-2. You may be surprised to learn that they made a rematch the following year where Deep Blue won 3½ to 2½.

I'm still amazed of the progress we make in AI. I have to admit it scares me a bit (damn you Skynet), but I still want the progress to go on!
October 20, 2010 1:58:22 PM

dormantreignAnd blizzard never sued them for hacking the game?


Pretty poor attempt to spin. But your fail to recognize one tincy wincy little thing, there is no malicious modification of code AND there is no intent to profit from said malicious modification. Maybe next time Gadget?
October 20, 2010 2:07:44 PM

Most games have a random chance of luck. For instance, will the PC be rushing this time or teching? It can be impossible to foresee events. Besides, in most games between users of nearly the same calibur, no one gamer will win every time. Was this "best of 3?" or did he just happen to beat the AI one out of 10 games?
October 20, 2010 2:24:21 PM

Someone tell John Connor to keep an eye on this =DoGo=, he could be useful.
October 20, 2010 2:25:59 PM

The original StarCraft AI was a notoriously bad cheater. And when I say it cheated, I mean it CHEATED. We're talking AI zerg rushes to your base, predictably, without exploring to find you, after just 5 minutes of play. AI units on different, locked teams completely ignoring each other and working together to wipe out enemy units one at a time. AI individually micromanaging buildings and units simultaneously all over the field. And that's just on standard difficulty!

I don't know if Blizzard is capable of writing an AI that doesn't cheat. I haven't thoroughly tested SC II yet, but even WarCraft III cheated like crazy, by knowing where all the creeps were and killing them all for XP while simultaneously building a base and raiding yours.

In the end, even beating the Insane AI is just a process of learning its patterns and building a defense against them. Or learning how to out-rush the computer. That's it. Until AI can actually think outside the box, like humans do, it will always ultimately lose.
October 20, 2010 2:43:11 PM

Whether it was beaten by a human or not, I think Blizzard should absorb this into Starcraft II. The AI is pretty bad in it.
October 20, 2010 3:02:14 PM

youssef 2010AI's can never be perfect,as they're programmed by humans.So,Other humans will always be able to beat it


Seriously? That makes absolutely no sense. Why does the fact that humans program the AI mean humans will always be able to beat it? In something like SC, it's about speed and quick simple decision making, both of which computers are better at. Your comment is like saying humans built cars, therefore humans will always be faster than cars.
October 20, 2010 3:13:13 PM

Reading all this just makes me want to go play more Starcraft II.
October 20, 2010 3:30:40 PM

The key is always finding a shortcoming in the AI and exploiting it limitlessly. That's what I usually do to other people too :) 
October 20, 2010 3:55:17 PM

power overwhelming!
October 20, 2010 3:55:19 PM

University programmers are noobs. Let's see what some professional engineers who have 10+ years of experience can do.
October 20, 2010 4:32:19 PM

LORD_ORIONHuman consciousness is small, but the processing required to create consciousness is vast. When we get to a point where we can actually create a machine more powerful then the human mind, we will probably have also had the technology to create a more powerful mind long before that point.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity#...
October 20, 2010 5:01:53 PM

I'm able to beat the very hard AI most of the time (though I still suck as Zerg), I haven't tried Insane yet, but if its much harder I think it will take some time before I can beat it more than 50:50.
Anonymous
October 20, 2010 5:07:15 PM

@hurfburf

this has nothing to do with hacking or years of experience, this is a highly specialized field, using stacked queues of simplistic algorithms to generate complex behavior pattern in the most efficient manner, your typical professional hacker/computer engineer would not even come close to this kind of sophistication in their whole career, the majority of the works remains theoretical, something that universities excel at

the difference between academic and professional is stark, the fact that most professionals would only ever use 5% of anything there were ever taught academically is telling
October 20, 2010 5:09:08 PM

The AI for chess has nothing in common with the AI for a variable game like war/starcraft. While the AI should win almost every evenly matched battle against a human it cannot properly scout and see patterns like humans can. For example, when have you seen an AI march a worker into your base to see what kind of units you're building?

Maybe I'm talking out of my a$$ here but I don't think the starcraft AI has the capacity to detect types of units and report back to the master brain. This is probably why humans can still reliably beat it.

Chess is a very constrained game, starcraft isn't.
October 20, 2010 5:12:28 PM

Bah, I checkout out the source videos and its all SC1, I was really hoping to see which tactics the AI would use in SC2.
October 20, 2010 5:13:11 PM

Maybe we just stop fighting wars and killing each other.. Then no need for super robot soldiers.
October 20, 2010 5:14:06 PM

If it can be created by humans, it can be destroyed by humans.
October 20, 2010 5:35:58 PM

i for one welcome our future machine overloards.
October 20, 2010 6:05:19 PM

NivaThe AI for chess has nothing in common with the AI for a variable game like war/starcraft. While the AI should win almost every evenly matched battle against a human it cannot properly scout and see patterns like humans can. For example, when have you seen an AI march a worker into your base to see what kind of units you're building? Maybe I'm talking out of my a$$ here but I don't think the starcraft AI has the capacity to detect types of units and report back to the master brain. This is probably why humans can still reliably beat it.Chess is a very constrained game, starcraft isn't.

It's the pattern recognition that gives humans the edge. Even the most crazy, super-complicated, supercomputer protein structure algorithms have been bested by humans (just look up Foldit and its corresponding Nature article if you have access).

Honestly, RTS AI's are predictable and generally pretty inflexible, once you learn how the computer responds to a given situation, you can learn how to exploit it, all it takes is time. I don't believe RTS games will ever create a SkyNet, my guess it'll be spammers trying to come up with a program to get past all the image recognition things/questions you have to do/answer to register for a forums account nowadays... they'll be the ones to destroy the world.
October 20, 2010 6:11:02 PM

JOSHSKORNIf it can be created by humans, it can be destroyed by humans.


If there's one thing we're really good at, it's killing stuff. lol
October 20, 2010 6:25:23 PM

dalta centauriOf course, because their selling these to people to be used online?*** off if you're going to post ass-hat comments, it's worse then trolling.


shut up jackass
it's not an asshat comment, but you're definitely an asshole
October 20, 2010 6:27:38 PM

chunkymonsterThe flaw in YOUR logic is that artificial intelligence will be as sophisticated as the human intelligence.

there is no flaw in his logic

now shut your mouth
October 20, 2010 6:30:41 PM

xero9200Seriously? That makes absolutely no sense. Why does the fact that humans program the AI mean humans will always be able to beat it? In something like SC, it's about speed and quick simple decision making, both of which computers are better at. Your comment is like saying humans built cars, therefore humans will always be faster than cars.


it makes sense.
just because you're too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.
it just means it doesn't make sense to you
but that's because you're stupid
October 20, 2010 6:40:30 PM

maestintaoliusIt's the pattern recognition that gives humans the edge. Even the most crazy, super-complicated, supercomputer protein structure algorithms have been bested by humans (just look up Foldit and its corresponding Nature article if you have access). Honestly, RTS AI's are predictable and generally pretty inflexible, once you learn how the computer responds to a given situation, you can learn how to exploit it, all it takes is time. I don't believe RTS games will ever create a SkyNet, my guess it'll be spammers trying to come up with a program to get past all the image recognition things/questions you have to do/answer to register for a forums account nowadays... they'll be the ones to destroy the world.

There was actually a bot in that competition called Skynet. It didn't win though, there were a couple of other bots that beat it.
October 20, 2010 7:07:04 PM

@james_lankford: Congratz on your Obnoxious Jerk award.
!