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Wireless Routers used as Access Points only

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Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 1:20:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Can someone correct my train of thought on this?

I have a wired network in a 2 story block building, I have a wireless router
connected to my internet connection, I have bought another one to replace it
since the new one has several features we need. I would like to take the old
one and place it in the first floor to give it wireless connectivity.

I think I can just changed the IP of the old router and disable DHCP and
just plug a cable from the hardwired into one of the LAN ports and this will
allow wireless units access to the net?

The "old" router is a Linksys WKPC54G and the new router is a SMC
SMC2804WBR.

Any suggestions, ideas or links is appreciated.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 3:22:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"S.C" <schjee@spams.com> wrote in message
news:uMidnUwRcYSMJUXcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> Can someone correct my train of thought on this?
>
> I have a wired network in a 2 story block building, I have a wireless
> router
> connected to my internet connection, I have bought another one to replace
> it
> since the new one has several features we need. I would like to take the
> old
> one and place it in the first floor to give it wireless connectivity.
>
> I think I can just changed the IP of the old router and disable DHCP and
> just plug a cable from the hardwired into one of the LAN ports and this
> will
> allow wireless units access to the net?
>
> The "old" router is a Linksys WKPC54G and the new router is a SMC
> SMC2804WBR.
>
> Any suggestions, ideas or links is appreciated.

You are correct in your wiring scheme, and in your wired configuration. For
the wireless configuration, set the two routers to use different channels.
At least 5 channels apart is ideal, at least 3 channels apart is acceptable.
You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even though you
likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.

Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 8:52:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Ron Bandes <RunderscoreBandes@yah00.com> wrote:

> You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even though you
> likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.

He will be able to roam; he just won't be able to do WDS. But he doesn't
need WDS, because he can connect the two APs via Ethernet.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 11:06:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

> > Can someone correct my train of thought on this?
> >
> > I have a wired network in a 2 story block building, I have a
wireless
> > router
> > connected to my internet connection, I have bought another one to
replace
> > it
> > since the new one has several features we need. I would like to
take the
> > old
> > one and place it in the first floor to give it wireless
connectivity.
> >
> > I think I can just changed the IP of the old router and disable
DHCP and
> > just plug a cable from the hardwired into one of the LAN ports and
this
> > will
> > allow wireless units access to the net?
> >
> > The "old" router is a Linksys WKPC54G and the new router is a SMC
> > SMC2804WBR.
> >
> > Any suggestions, ideas or links is appreciated.
>
> You are correct in your wiring scheme, and in your wired
configuration. For
> the wireless configuration, set the two routers to use different
channels.
> At least 5 channels apart is ideal, at least 3 channels apart is
acceptable.
> You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even though
you
> likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.
>
> Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.

Tis best to use channel 1 and 11 for two co-located aps as there is
some overlap
between 1 and 6 and 6 and 11, just not as much as between 1 and 2 or 3
or 4 etc.
January 3, 2005 5:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Airhead" <campbell@alliancecable.net> wrote in message
news:41d95178$0$22514$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.com...
>
> > > Can someone correct my train of thought on this?
> > >
> > > I have a wired network in a 2 story block building, I have a
> wireless
> > > router
> > > connected to my internet connection, I have bought another one to
> replace
> > > it
> > > since the new one has several features we need. I would like to
> take the
> > > old
> > > one and place it in the first floor to give it wireless
> connectivity.
> > >
> > > I think I can just changed the IP of the old router and disable
> DHCP and
> > > just plug a cable from the hardwired into one of the LAN ports and
> this
> > > will
> > > allow wireless units access to the net?
> > >
> > > The "old" router is a Linksys WKPC54G and the new router is a SMC
> > > SMC2804WBR.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions, ideas or links is appreciated.
> >
> > You are correct in your wiring scheme, and in your wired
> configuration. For
> > the wireless configuration, set the two routers to use different
> channels.
> > At least 5 channels apart is ideal, at least 3 channels apart is
> acceptable.
> > You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even though
> you
> > likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.
> >
> > Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.
>
> Tis best to use channel 1 and 11 for two co-located aps as there is
> some overlap
> between 1 and 6 and 6 and 11, just not as much as between 1 and 2 or 3
> or 4 etc.
>

I'm sorry, this is not correct. There is absolutely no spectrum overlap
between 802.11b/g channels 1, 6 and 11. Check it out for yourself in any
good WiFi book. This is where the "5 channels" rule-of-thumb originated.

-Jonathan
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 5:55:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:55:07 -0500, "Jonathan"
<jonathanNO@SPAMsprintmail.com> wrote:

>I'm sorry, this is not correct. There is absolutely no spectrum overlap
>between 802.11b/g channels 1, 6 and 11. Check it out for yourself in any
>good WiFi book. This is where the "5 channels" rule-of-thumb originated.

Actually there is, because the spectra extends well beyond the alleged
occupied bandwidth. Maybe an explanation will help.

802.11b/g direct sequence channels are 5 MHz wide[1]. 802.11b/g
direct sequence spread spectrum (DSSS) modulation looks like a
sin(x)/x curve, with a big major "lump" in the middle, a drop to zilch
on either side of the lump, and then smaller lumps going of into
infinity. See tutorial at:
http://www.sss-mag.com/ss.html#tutorial
The photo of the DS spectra is what I'm muttering about.

The width of the "lump" in the middle is about 22MHz wide. The bulk
of the RF is concentrated in this 22MHz or about 4+ channels wide. 5
channels per signal is a good average.

However, much of the RF on the slope of the "lump" is relatively low
level when compared to the peak power. If you have sufficient
physical seperation to reduce the signal even more, it is possible to
run a system on perhaps every 3 or 4 channels seperation instead of 5.
However, if the radios are in the same "air space" and can hear each
other, every 5 channels is considered safe.

[1] Frequency hopping spread spectrum channels a 1MHz wide.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 6:18:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jonathan" <jonathanNO@SPAMsprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:--udnWWjUeldP0TcRVn-og@speakeasy.net...
>
> "Airhead" <campbell@alliancecable.net> wrote in message
> news:41d95178$0$22514$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.com...
> >
> > > > Can someone correct my train of thought on this?
> > > >
> > > > I have a wired network in a 2 story block building, I have a
> > wireless
> > > > router
> > > > connected to my internet connection, I have bought another one
to
> > replace
> > > > it
> > > > since the new one has several features we need. I would like
to
> > take the
> > > > old
> > > > one and place it in the first floor to give it wireless
> > connectivity.
> > > >
> > > > I think I can just changed the IP of the old router and
disable
> > DHCP and
> > > > just plug a cable from the hardwired into one of the LAN ports
and
> > this
> > > > will
> > > > allow wireless units access to the net?
> > > >
> > > > The "old" router is a Linksys WKPC54G and the new router is a
SMC
> > > > SMC2804WBR.
> > > >
> > > > Any suggestions, ideas or links is appreciated.
> > >
> > > You are correct in your wiring scheme, and in your wired
> > configuration. For
> > > the wireless configuration, set the two routers to use different
> > channels.
> > > At least 5 channels apart is ideal, at least 3 channels apart is
> > acceptable.
> > > You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even
though
> > you
> > > likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.
> > >
> > > Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.
> >
> > Tis best to use channel 1 and 11 for two co-located aps as there
is
> > some overlap
> > between 1 and 6 and 6 and 11, just not as much as between 1 and 2
or 3
> > or 4 etc.
> >
>
> I'm sorry, this is not correct. There is absolutely no spectrum
overlap
> between 802.11b/g channels 1, 6 and 11. Check it out for yourself
in any
> good WiFi book. This is where the "5 channels" rule-of-thumb
originated.

I have checked it out. (found it in some good wi-fi books) It happens
in co-located APs.
The reason is due to the fact that they are transmitting at
approximately
the same degree of power and are close to each other. This will cause
a small overlap
between 1 and 6 and 6 and 11 around the 2.427 and 2.447 freq area
and will typically decrease the throughput from approximatley 5mbs to
around 4mbs.
Theoretically there is no overlap but in reality there has shown to be
some.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 7:59:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Just a question I have about this, since I started the thread. Does it
really matter since the first wireless router cannot even reach the first
floor? I get "0" signal strength and no connection at all. I have tried
several different laptops with different cards and I get nothing at all on
the first floor, so I am to believe that the signal from the one on the
first floor will not reach the second floor either.

Thanks
Steve




"Jonathan" <jonathanNO@SPAMsprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:--udnWWjUeldP0TcRVn-og@speakeasy.net...
>
> "Airhead" <campbell@alliancecable.net> wrote in message
> news:41d95178$0$22514$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.com...
> >
> > > > Can someone correct my train of thought on this?
> > > >
> > > > I have a wired network in a 2 story block building, I have a
> > wireless
> > > > router
> > > > connected to my internet connection, I have bought another one to
> > replace
> > > > it
> > > > since the new one has several features we need. I would like to
> > take the
> > > > old
> > > > one and place it in the first floor to give it wireless
> > connectivity.
> > > >
> > > > I think I can just changed the IP of the old router and disable
> > DHCP and
> > > > just plug a cable from the hardwired into one of the LAN ports and
> > this
> > > > will
> > > > allow wireless units access to the net?
> > > >
> > > > The "old" router is a Linksys WKPC54G and the new router is a SMC
> > > > SMC2804WBR.
> > > >
> > > > Any suggestions, ideas or links is appreciated.
> > >
> > > You are correct in your wiring scheme, and in your wired
> > configuration. For
> > > the wireless configuration, set the two routers to use different
> > channels.
> > > At least 5 channels apart is ideal, at least 3 channels apart is
> > acceptable.
> > > You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even though
> > you
> > > likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.
> > >
> > > Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.
> >
> > Tis best to use channel 1 and 11 for two co-located aps as there is
> > some overlap
> > between 1 and 6 and 6 and 11, just not as much as between 1 and 2 or 3
> > or 4 etc.
> >
>
> I'm sorry, this is not correct. There is absolutely no spectrum overlap
> between 802.11b/g channels 1, 6 and 11. Check it out for yourself in any
> good WiFi book. This is where the "5 channels" rule-of-thumb originated.
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 7:59:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:59:58 -0500, "S.C" <schjee@spams.com> wrote:

>Just a question I have about this, since I started the thread. Does it
>really matter since the first wireless router cannot even reach the first
>floor? I get "0" signal strength and no connection at all. I have tried
>several different laptops with different cards and I get nothing at all on
>the first floor, so I am to believe that the signal from the one on the
>first floor will not reach the second floor either.

Y'er 98.7% correct. If you can't hear the potential source of
interference, you will not have a problem and can use the same
channel. However, if there is a location, where a real user might
hear BOTH access points, you'll have an interference problem. In my
limited experience, unless you have a very well isolated system, there
will usually be some place on the premisis that can/will hear both
access points.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 3, 2005 8:34:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

S.C wrote:
> Just a question I have about this, since I started the thread. Does it
> really matter since the first wireless router cannot even reach the
> first floor? I get "0" signal strength and no connection at all. I
> have tried several different laptops with different cards and I get
> nothing at all on the first floor, so I am to believe that the signal
> from the one on the first floor will not reach the second floor
> either.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
It depends on the construction. I have run into things like metal beams in
floors, firewalls etc that really screw up propogation. Depends on your
needs on the other floor. Not sure of your setup, but have seen a hardwire
from one floor building to another, with multiple AP's. Wasn't meant to get
into AP stuff, but more to mention that it is very typical to find "dead
spots". The strangest I ran across was what I thought was a simple square
brick pole, turned out to be metal inside with a brick facade, and just to
make it stranger, the room had plastered walls (turned out there was a metal
mesh under the plaster!) (older building, guess that's the way they
constructed stuff then).
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 4, 2005 2:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

S.C <schjee@spams.com> wrote:

> Just a question I have about this, since I started the thread. Does it
> really matter since the first wireless router cannot even reach the first
> floor? I get "0" signal strength and no connection at all. I have tried
> several different laptops with different cards and I get nothing at all on
> the first floor, so I am to believe that the signal from the one on the
> first floor will not reach the second floor either.

That doesn't matter if you're going to run a cable from the wireless
router on one floor to the wireless router on the other floor. Or does
that *not* describe what you were thinking of doing? If you want to have
the two floors connected by a wireless link, that can't be done using
the two routers you currently have.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 4, 2005 5:00:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

My intent was to have a AP on the first floor since the WirelessRouter on
the second floor will not reach the first floor, The router and AP on the
first floor will be hardwired to each other, I have had two laptops running
side by side walking thru the first floor and I get no signal at all at the
places people will be using the laptops.

Thanks for the info guys!!!


"Neill Massello" <neillmassello@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gptl5y.4346v31r9spcnN%neillmassello@earthlink.net...
> S.C <schjee@spams.com> wrote:
>
> > Just a question I have about this, since I started the thread. Does it
> > really matter since the first wireless router cannot even reach the
first
> > floor? I get "0" signal strength and no connection at all. I have tried
> > several different laptops with different cards and I get nothing at all
on
> > the first floor, so I am to believe that the signal from the one on the
> > first floor will not reach the second floor either.
>
> That doesn't matter if you're going to run a cable from the wireless
> router on one floor to the wireless router on the other floor. Or does
> that *not* describe what you were thinking of doing? If you want to have
> the two floors connected by a wireless link, that can't be done using
> the two routers you currently have.
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 7, 2005 2:55:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Neill Massello" <neillmassello@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gps9qu.1xseu4w1qsh9pgN%neillmassello@earthlink.net...
> Ron Bandes <RunderscoreBandes@yah00.com> wrote:
>
>> You probably want to use the same SSID on both routers, even though you
>> likely won't be able to roam due to the different manufacturers.
>
> He will be able to roam; he just won't be able to do WDS. But he doesn't
> need WDS, because he can connect the two APs via Ethernet.

I believe this is wrong. There is no standard for any Distribution System,
not just Wireless Distribution Systems. IEEE 802.11F is in trials, but it's
not standardized yet.

Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
January 7, 2005 10:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Ron Bandes <RunderscoreBandes@yah00.com> wrote:

> I believe this is wrong. There is no standard for any Distribution System,
> not just Wireless Distribution Systems. IEEE 802.11F is in trials, but it's
> not standardized yet.

I believe you don't understand that the term "roaming" normally refers
to multiple access points connected to the same wired network and having
the same SSID and encryption key. Whether or not it's standardized, it
works with access points of different brands, as they don't need to
communicate with one another wirelessly.
!