Bitch Session

[4Ryan6]

Personally I think Microsoft dropping improvement support for Win2K Pro really sucks, any of us that know just how good Win2K Pro is, should be upset about this, Win2K Pro w SP4 actually performs better than Microsoft had expected it to, and is seriously cutting into their expectations of WinXP becoming the OP/SYS of choice.

Too many companies today are using Win2K Pro and their systems are running just fine, so obviously they're not too keen on changing to another OP/SYS when the one they're using is doing the job, not to mention the money involved, downtime, and possible problems with switching over to another OP/SYS.

Why drop improvement support on a perfectly good OP/SYS thats performing as well as Win2K Pro does, I know its about money, but sometimes Microshaft just doesn't make sense!

What do you think?






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[Ned_Flanders]

I think Windows 2000 is 5 and a half years old. Let it die!

_____________________
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[RichPLS]

Both my mother and father are still running WinNT 2000, but they are old and resist change
XP is much better, and hey, if 2000 floats yer boat, sail away

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

 

[RichPLS]

XP does not run on 486 systems anyway

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

 

[4Ryan6]

Oh Great! The only replies I get, are from Dumb and Dumber!

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[Ned_Flanders]

Cry me a river.

@ RichPLS - You are SO dumber! :lol:

_____________________
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[4Ryan6]

ROFL How've you been doing Ned? I did give you prestige over Rich

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[4Ryan6]

Just cracking on you guys, I don't think either one of you is dumb, thats for sure!



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[4Ryan6]

I think Windows 2000 is 5 and a half years old.

Its probably the best of Microsofts accomplishments besides XP, for the business world its still seriously hanging in there, and would stay a threat to XP if Microsoft hadn't dropped improvement support for it.

Which will cause problems in the long run security wise because some business owners just aren't going to spend the money to change to a new OP/SYS.

Let it die!

That surely isn't up to me Ned, but I do dual boot with Win2K Pro and WinXP Pro, Win2K is my business end and XP is my play end of things.

Using both OP/SYS really gives me the opportunity to see the best and worst of both of them and 2K is still really good, especially after SP4 was released.

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[4Ryan6]

From what you posted there really wasn't anything worth replying to, So have a nice day! OK.

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[riser]

2k is good. XP has slight improvements over it, but until there is a major improvement over 2k, let it live. It uses AD and works with XP and Server nicely.

They're looking for the money, but it's also expensive to keep people around supporting that system. They want to use their talent that created 2k to update XP also.. which also requires a lot of time. I understand what you're saying and agree. I think 95/98/NT should die off.

But at my work.. we're still using things back to Win 3.11 on a very few computers. We have a huge amount of 95/98/ME..

I'm in the IT department. My boss doesn't want to move to VLK because he doesn't understand the benefits.

I'm glad that Microsoft is dropping support because that causes people to update their systems.. Crazy as it is, my IT department doesn't hold sway in telling users what OS they're going to be using.

This causes my company to get updated at least.

 

[4Ryan6]

I understand your point its amazing to me just how many major corporations are still using even Win95 on their systems that do not have internet capabilities, and they're like "Hey Its Working Just Fine For What We're Using It For.".

We're fooling ourselves if we think even dropping 2Ks improvement support, is the end of it, I do wonder when Microsoft was first pushing the heck out of XP, did they even realize how many corporations were still using systems like 95, 98, and NT, and had no intentions of changing?

It is a money thing as you said and Microsoft will be wanting to drop XP support, shortly after Longhorn is marketed, and I'll bet you some of these stubborn companies will still be running 95. ROFLMAO





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[riser]

Microsoft is trying to move from a feast/famine type market.. where they make huge surges of money in one year when they release a new OS or Office product.. then for 2-3 years they don't make any money.. that's where the VLK comes into play where you buy for 3 years.. they know their revenue for the next 3 years.. you can't blame them on that front.. by doing that, everyone would get XP.. business-wise.. if you don't go with that then they have to support older systems..

I see where they're coming from.. Bally's Total Fitness does the same thing.. you have to sign up for a 2-3 year contract at a set amount because they're on the public stock exchange.. investors want to know they're yearly revenue and know it'll hold steady.

Now, for my company.. we have more money than anyone knows what to do with.. its insane how much extra capital this company has.

But for some reason they don't want to upgrade computers until it dies.. and my manager really isn't up to date in the business world of computers.. he moved the company from a domain to a workgroup as it expanded.. he made things harder instead of easier.. because he didn't want to learn how to use 2k or XP in a domain.

Yet he won't push to make everyone update to at least 2000 and he won't push for a VLK agreement with microsoft.. so we spend ungodly amounts of money buying new versions of office.. we buy dell desktops and ibm laptop for some reason.. office versions are licenses while laptop and desktop OSs are per machine.. but we keep buying more and more office copies after a machine is dead.. when with the VLK we would already have it and not need to buy new..

it's crazy and it gives me a headache when I think about it.. heh.

Kudos to microsoft for taking a stance though.. but 2k should stick around... though having 1 OS to support would be much easier.. as most company IT departments find that ideal too.

 

[riser]

Win2k3 has huge improvements in Active Directory over Win2k's. There is a lot more customization/scalability in 2k3 over 2k.

Security improvements are the biggest I notice. 2k3 comes locked down and with basic security setup, while 2k comes unlocked.

For beginners, 2k3 requires a complex password. That's the first major noticable thing. 2k3's security has been overhauled.

If you don't notice an improvement from 2k to 2k3, it's about the same as saying you didn't notice an improvement from win2k to winxp?

Remote Desktop along is worthwhile.. it's the upgraded version of TC and it works so much better and a lot faster.

 

[4Ryan6]

It's Bills way of showing kindness to people like me.

What do you mean?






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[riser]

He's referring to VLK copies of Windows.

But it's all recorded by Microsoft.. so when the agreement comes up for renewing (3 years) and you don't get the update from Microsoft, your Windows with VLK supposed is no longer supported..

 

[4Ryan6]

VLK meaning? Volume License Keyed copies I assume?

I don't have any experience with VLK copies or their restrictions, only OEM.

But it's all recorded by Microsoft.. so when the agreement comes up for renewing (3 years) and you don't get the update from Microsoft, your Windows with VLK supposed is no longer supported..

Now that does seem seriously inconvenient to me, when you say no longer supported, are you actually saying the OP/SYS will not function anymore after the 3 yr time period?






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[riser]

Not sure how exactly it's not supported anymore.. it's what microsoft says.

I know the Keys expire after the contract. Maybe they won't allow updates or something to that effect. I don't know any companies that have hit their 3 year mark yet.. I don't think the 3 year mark ends (since the incorporation of the VLK) until the end of 2005 or 2006.

OEM is on a per computer basis, meaning if you buy a Dell computer, you can't install that OS on any other computer regardless. Retail means you own 1 legitimate copy per license purchased, like out of the store.

VLK means you can install as much as you want, but when it comes around, they have record of how many current are installed and the company pays a set price per piece of software.

For example.. you have 100 computers, that need 100 copies of 2003 office pro. M$ says you get a volumn discoun if you buy more.. so you agree to pay for 100 copies of each.. let's say for fun it's 10,000. You only use 90 of each.. so 180 out of your 200 you paid for.. you lose that money.
Let's say you use 120 on each, so 240, 40 over your 200. You pay a reduced amount for those extra 40.. could be 20 dollars a license. really cheap.. It basically ensures that after 3 years M$ will have no less than X amount but possibly Y amount more in revenue, but no less.

It's a marketing thing where they want their investors to know they have a solid revenue.. so for at least 3 years you know that Microsoft has money coming in. With people signing up for 3 years at a time, they easily over lap and money is constantly coming in.


But I think that after a certain time your VLK expires and you're issued new ones.. and your older ones are no longer supported for updates and such - based on a key code and installation date. I'm sure there will be a way to get around it though.

 

[riser]

Enterprise edition is just corporate. It means there are unlimited installs on that license. It can be installed unlimited and will never need to validate. I don't exactly know what happens after the 3 year term.. if they force a change in the key or if the company is fined if found out to be using that key code after it's expired.

 

[jihiggs]

as i understand it they will still patch security holes as they come up. they just wont be making any improvements. how do you have a problem with this? do you expect the company that made your car to continue updating the engine after you have bought it just to make it a little better?

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>

 

[4Ryan6]

Thats really a lousy comparison [car and engine] to a software operating system, and I'm fully aware they will patch security holes, in Win2K its just since the release of SP4, 2K has really become an extremely dependable OP/SYS probably the best Microsoft has released yet, but it did take them to SP4 to get there.

I know Microsoft isn't full of stupid people they realize many more improvements and 2K will exceed XP, but they sure as hell don't want that now do they, although there are quite a lot of business's out there that already know this.

IMO 2K's continued improvements will seriously impeed Microsofts future sales because companies don't like giving up something thats working for them, and thats completely understandable because we're talking major amounts of money here, Microsoft wants it but a hell of a lot of companies don't want to spend it to upgrade Operating systems.

Microsoft would be rolling in the money if every company out there still running Win95, 98, 98SE, ME, and 2K, decided now, to switch to XP, but theres still companies today running XP SP1 that don't trust going to SP2 no matter how much hype and threats Microsoft has pitched on that one, because it cost money just to switch to SP2 in tech support, and if something goes wrong with a major corporation, it could be quite a financial disaster.

So I guess as a personal gripe, we've waited so long for operating systems from Microsoft to really be good and worth spending your money on, without having to reload your Operating system every couple of months because it turns to crap, that I'd like to see a really good operating system stick around for a while, is that really that hard for you to understand?

I dual boot Win2K Pro, and WinXP Pro so I get to see the two in operation every day and Microsoft can drop everything today, and I will still use Win2K Pro and so will a lot of others, and so do a lot of others!





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[riser]

I like 2k but I like XP also. As a tech, I find XP gives me more security and about the same control that 2k does. They're both good.

It's stupid for Microsoft to drop 2k support from an end user's view. But then again, they don't have a team of 10-15-20 people doing security for 2k. They have 100s, if 1000s doing security on it. It's getting tedious for them to keep putting the updates out.

As far as the money for Microsoft goes.. they came out with VLK Agreements and Open Agreements for this exact reason.

Currently, if you agree to a 3 year term with Microsoft for a set fee.. which a license is far cheaper with VLK than buying individually like one would do before.
Now the VLK does 2 major things that is very smart on Microsoft side.

1) Under VLK agreement, the company is entitled to any and all upgrades for any software covered in their agreement. If you have all Windows 2000 machines, you can upgrade to Windows XP for no cost. This goes for 3 years until the contract is up for renewal. If you signed up at the right time, you might be lucky enough to have started with Win2k, then get WinXP free and MAYBE even get Vista free before you have to renew your contract. That means, you pay 1 price, you get access to all agreed software and a set amount of licenses.

2) VLK keeps Microsoft stable financially. Every year they can guarentee companies to resign for 3 years. Financial security for 3 years becaue of that contract and after it expires, probably all or a large majority will sign up again for another 3 years. Financial security.

The last company I worked for went through 2 major upgrades. First, we were on Win NT workstation. We joined the VLK and moved up to 2000 which was awesome. Then under that same contract when XP came out, we staged an upgrade for that. I left just before the WinXP roll-out happened. The best part was we never had to pay an extra dime to go from NT, to 2000, to XP. Even with our servers to go from NT to 2000 to 2003.

You buy 1 license, you get the latest software for the next 3 years for that 1 fee. It won't cost you anything more.. it's actually a perk.

Which is why Microsoft can say they're not going to support 2k any more, because it's mainly companies that are getting effected, but they better be on VLK otherwise they're wasting a lot of money. They can upgrade to XP SP2 for free and it's very stable and shouldn't cause any problems. If they need something older, they're free to use anything since they actually own ALL version of whatever software they purchased with their VLK.

 

[jihiggs]

So I guess as a personal gripe, we've waited so long for operating systems from Microsoft to really be good and worth spending your money on, without having to reload your Operating system every couple of months because it turns to crap, that I'd like to see a really good operating system stick around for a while, is that really that hard for you to understand?

ITS 5 FREAKIN YEARS OLD! xp is just as good when you scale down the services you dont need. that is an eternity in the computer biz. is it so hard for you to understand that you can only make old technology better to a point, after that its pointless to keep modifying old code to make it do somthing it wasnt meant to, just make a new os from the bottom up. its not like xp is bad at all. 2k will do what it does today, 50 years from now. if you need it to do somthing else you need to buy a better os. why do you expect ms to pump money into a product that is no longer their main selling item? you have already bought it, who in their right mind would expect a company to continue improving a product for free years after they bought it? ms does it anyway then 5 years later your pissing and moaning that your prescious os isnt going to get any better even though you had no plans of paying for the further developement. your just a whiny spoiled brat that wants the world and doesnt want to pay for it. how can you complain about not getting somthing for free that they gave you for 5 years when they didnt even have to?

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>

 

[4Ryan6]

Post deleted by 4ryan6

 

[4Ryan6]

Post deleted by 4ryan6