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Blizzard to buy SOE!

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Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:28:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Well, tht was just a pipe dream I had while reading about the all
servers are up excecpt ... all servers are down message! If Blizzard
owned them ... they just might be up! I also note that they promised to
update use EVERY HOUR and they have failed to do so over the last 3.5
hours!

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.

More about : blizzard buy soe

Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:28:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 17 Dec 2004 22:28:54 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Well, tht was just a pipe dream I had while reading about the all
>servers are up excecpt ... all servers are down message! If Blizzard
>owned them ... they just might be up! I also note that they promised to
>update use EVERY HOUR and they have failed to do so over the last 3.5
>hours!

Nevermind that there was an update posted in the forums at 1:30 PST
and another one at 2:40 PST. Okay, 1:10, but let's not nitpick over 10
minutes.

It's not like Blizzard never had lengthy downtimes during the WoW beta
and in the first week of launch, and it's certainly not unlikely to
think it won't happen again. Yeah, Blizzard's a better company than
SOE, IMO, but get your head out of their ass, eh?

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:28:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger wrote:

> It's not like Blizzard never had lengthy downtimes during the WoW beta
> and in the first week of launch, and it's certainly not unlikely to
> think it won't happen again. Yeah, Blizzard's a better company than
> SOE, IMO, but get your head out of their ass, eh?
>

Like when AT&T's datacenter in Virginia was hit by a tornado? :-o

(They hosted the WoW beta servers, in addition to games like SWG)

I think it was down for 4-5 days?
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Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:28:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Dark Tyger" <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:tro6s09eb66hgpe0cpcc365f5atf3av5va@4ax.com...
> On 17 Dec 2004 22:28:54 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Well, tht was just a pipe dream I had while reading about the all
>>servers are up excecpt ... all servers are down message! If Blizzard
>>owned them ... they just might be up! I also note that they promised to
>>update use EVERY HOUR and they have failed to do so over the last 3.5
>>hours!
>
> Nevermind that there was an update posted in the forums at 1:30 PST
> and another one at 2:40 PST. Okay, 1:10, but let's not nitpick over 10
> minutes.
>
> It's not like Blizzard never had lengthy downtimes during the WoW beta
> and in the first week of launch, and it's certainly not unlikely to
> think it won't happen again. Yeah, Blizzard's a better company than
> SOE, IMO, but get your head out of their ass, eh?
>
> --
> Dark Tyger
Yep but that 1:30 was the last update and that was 4 hours ago.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:28:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:10:27 -0500, ritchie <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>Dark Tyger wrote:
>
>> It's not like Blizzard never had lengthy downtimes during the WoW beta
>> and in the first week of launch, and it's certainly not unlikely to
>> think it won't happen again. Yeah, Blizzard's a better company than
>> SOE, IMO, but get your head out of their ass, eh?
>>
>
>Like when AT&T's datacenter in Virginia was hit by a tornado? :-o
>
>(They hosted the WoW beta servers, in addition to games like SWG)
>
>I think it was down for 4-5 days?

Well, that was beyond their control. But I can think of several times
during beta, especially open, where the servers were pretty much
unavailable for an entire day or more at a time. There were times even
during closed beta where they were crashing regularly and lagged to
hell when they were up. Yes, it was beta and all, but it just goes to
show that they're not perfect, either.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 1:28:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:44:35 -0500, "Fleebag of Toxx"
<ospam@adelphia.net> wrote:

>> Nevermind that there was an update posted in the forums at 1:30 PST
>> and another one at 2:40 PST. Okay, 1:10, but let's not nitpick over 10
>> minutes.
<snip>
>Yep but that 1:30 was the last update and that was 4 hours ago.

Uh...did you read that? An update at 1:30, then one at 2:40. Since my
post, there has been an update at 3:31, 3:34 (by different devs), and
4:32.

Here's the thread on the official forums:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 3:55:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> Here's the thread on the official forums:
>
> http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...
>

They posted after the login screen. So, if it said THERE that they
would update every hour than I expect to see an update every hour THERE.
Simple language and I expect simple follow-through.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 3:55:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 18 Dec 2004 00:55:17 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>They posted after the login screen. So, if it said THERE that they
>would update every hour than I expect to see an update every hour THERE.
>Simple language and I expect simple follow-through.

*eyeroll* Sure, you make assumptions and they're wrong. The forums are
where they do the most communicating with players. Besides, the
updates haven't been any more than basically "We're still working on
it, sorry, not ETA yet, thanks for your patience". Why do you need
that every hour, anyway?

The only real exception was a post that as an apology, any debt
characters had on them (trade or adventure xp) before today's patch
will be cleared.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 3:55:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41c37ff5$0$19894$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>
>> Here's the thread on the official forums:
>>
>> http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...
>>
>
> They posted after the login screen. So, if it said THERE that they
> would update every hour than I expect to see an update every hour THERE.
> Simple language and I expect simple follow-through.


Gee man sounds like you think your paying their salaries... Oh I guess maybe
you are.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 3:56:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>Yep but that 1:30 was the last update and that was 4 hours ago.
>
> Uh...did you read that? An update at 1:30, then one at 2:40. Since my
> post, there has been an update at 3:31, 3:34 (by different devs), and
> 4:32.
>

BTW ... the last update, according to the login screen "Update Notes",
reads (note it says 13:00PM):

Update Notes: December 17, 2004 12/17/2004 13:00 pm

All US servers and Innovation are currently down. Our development team
and operations groups are working to restore these servers to their save
for the 7AM PST update this morning. An ETA on their uptime currently
unavailable. However, we will be updating you with progress hourly and
will deliver a more firm ETA as soon as we can. We will have the servers
up as soon as possible and bring each server online as it is ready.

Thank you.

The EverQuest II Team


A bunch of flippin' IT amateurs! Plain and simple.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 3:58:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> Here's the thread on the official forums:
>
> http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...
>

For those who actually read text in USENET and expect unbroken links
[less than 80 characters in length or formatted],
http://tinyurl.com/6vdzq

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:02:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>
>Well, that was beyond their control. But I can think of several times
>during beta, especially open, where the servers were pretty much
>unavailable for an entire day or more at a time. There were times even
>during closed beta where they were crashing regularly and lagged to
>hell when they were up. Yes, it was beta and all, but it just goes to
>show that they're not perfect, either.

FFS- listen to yourselves - complaining that a *BETA* is not as stable
as a production environment.

Your feeble mitigation of "Yes, is was beta and all, but..." is just
that, "feeble". You mean on a beta - unavailable a "whole day"!! FFS -
you need a serious reality check.

If you are going to hold such things against blizzard on a *BETA* for
crying out loud - you need a damn good slap. Read the agreement you
entered into on enrolling on the *BETA* and STFU. If you not happy to
accept such things you should stay away from Beta.

Just MNSHO
Cheers

P.S. I am not a WOW fan - never played it - so cant comment. I cant
even be sure of the agreement I am lambasting you for agreeing to -
but even without reading, I bet it says to expect some instability.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:18:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> I'm not going out of my way to do anything. I don't need to go out of
> my way to counter completely assinine statements.
>

I guess I don't need to address this. You simply use a condescending
attitude to attempt to justify your position. So, my piece is said, and
I will leave it at that.

> Incidentally, I like WoW better, too. The only reason I play EQ2 is my
> girlfriend has an account and an All Access Pass, so she's let me
> hijack 2 of her character slots when she's not playing. I'll be buying
> WoW myself when we have the money. I just don't suffer the idiotic
> delusion most people do that liking one game means having to hate and
> bash the other for every little mistake. It's not like Blizzard's
> track record is flawless...
>

I don't know. If you look back at all my previous posts, you will see
newbie posts and you will see positive posts for both games. Sometimes
for one game and sometimes for the other. I took some clear positions
against a couple of things that Everquest II implemented in their game,
but they are honest opinions and posted as such. Others stated and
advised otherwise and for the most part, their opions were accepted and
not attacked.

However, as for you, I have not more use for you. I saw once that a
troll called many people in a newsgroup an apologist. I hate to stoop
to that level myself, but at least I am only going to call one person an
apologist, because it seems to fit, and that person is YOU.

Now, have a nice day ... playing Wow on your Girlfriends account as
apparently she can afford it and you can't.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:18:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 18 Dec 2004 02:47:59 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>My words do speak for themselve

And they say you're a whiner, a troll, and a complete smeghead.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:23:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> No, it was -NOT- said that updates would be posted in the patcher.
> Just that updates would be given. -WHERE- was never mentioned. You
> assumed they meant in the patcher window. Clearly you assumed wrong,
> even if it seemed logical.
>

Do you know the difference between an implication and an inference?

So ... why post that information there?

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 5:46:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> No, it's an assumption. Good god, get over yourself.
>
> I'm rather amused at how you've suddenly gone from "they said it" to
> "they implied it". Don't trip while you're back pedalling there,
> Tommy.
>

They did SAY it. You said that they implied that it would only be in
the forums. So, I am indicating that the implication is in the words
they wrote and that the updates will follow exactly where they wrote the
words.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 6:50:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <41c3804d$0$19894$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net>, Thomas T.
Veldhouse wrote:
> Update Notes: December 17, 2004 12/17/2004 13:00 pm
>
> All US servers and Innovation are currently down. Our development team and
> operations groups are working to restore these servers to their save for
> the 7AM PST update this morning. An ETA on their uptime currently
> unavailable. However, we will be updating you with progress hourly and
> will deliver a more firm ETA as soon as we can. We will have the servers
> up as soon as possible and bring each server online as it is ready.
>
> Thank you.
>
> The EverQuest II Team
>
>
> A bunch of flippin' IT amateurs! Plain and simple.

It doesn't sound like an IT problem. An IT problem would usually at most
require a small subset of the servers to be restored. A problem that
requires *all* of them to be restored is more likely to be a problem with
the development people (and the QA people), not the IT people.

--
--Tim Smith
December 18, 2004 6:58:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Tim Smith wrote:

> A problem that requires *all* of them to be restored is
> more likely to be a problem with the development people
> (and the QA people), not the IT people.

Uh, development and QA are generally within the IT
division. In fact I've never seen them organized elsewhere...
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 7:07:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
> It doesn't sound like an IT problem. An IT problem would usually at most
> require a small subset of the servers to be restored. A problem that
> requires *all* of them to be restored is more likely to be a problem with
> the development people (and the QA people), not the IT people.
>

IT includes development and QA. However, when I indicate that IT is the
cause, I do not indicate that all of IT is the cause, just that things
were not tested well and that untested and buggy software was indeed
deployed to ALL of the servers. However, this is a IT deficiency in
general.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
December 18, 2004 8:49:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Wolfie wrote:
> Tim Smith wrote:
>
>
>>A problem that requires *all* of them to be restored is
>>more likely to be a problem with the development people
>>(and the QA people), not the IT people.
>
>
> Uh, development and QA are generally within the IT
> division. In fact I've never seen them organized elsewhere...
>
>
>

Then you've never worked at a software development company as I have
where IT is simply a support service enabling people to get their work
done. Not to minimize their importance or expertise in their field.

--
Get Thunderbird - Reclaim Your Inbox
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Get Firefox! - The Browser You Can Trust
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
December 18, 2004 8:53:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>>It doesn't sound like an IT problem. An IT problem would usually at most
>>require a small subset of the servers to be restored. A problem that
>>requires *all* of them to be restored is more likely to be a problem with
>>the development people (and the QA people), not the IT people.
>>
>
>
> IT includes development and QA. However, when I indicate that IT is the
> cause, I do not indicate that all of IT is the cause, just that things
> were not tested well and that untested and buggy software was indeed
> deployed to ALL of the servers. However, this is a IT deficiency in
> general.
>

Oh, so you are privvy to the organizational structure at SOE? Somehow I
doubt that. I also doubt that a game development division falls under
the auspices of IT. I would think it most likely that IT and development
are somewhat separate organizations in any MMO company. I will agree
with you that Test always falls within the realm of the development
group however. Have you ever worked in software development Thomas?
Nothing personal but to anyone who has it is obvious you've reached
beyond your own experience in making such an incorrect assumption about
the organization of a software development house.

--
Get Thunderbird - Reclaim Your Inbox
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Get Firefox! - The Browser You Can Trust
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 9:05:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <NVNwd.157152$Oc.115137@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Wolfie wrote:
>> A problem that requires *all* of them to be restored is more likely to be
>> a problem with the development people (and the QA people), not the IT
>> people.
>
> Uh, development and QA are generally within the IT division. In fact I've
> never seen them organized elsewhere...

Odd...I've never seen development and QA within IT. The IT departments in
all the places I've seen have basically run the servers, managed the
network, managed the phones, configured desktop machines, and stuff like
that.

All the places I've seen, though, have been computer companies, either
making software or hardware (or both). I could see at a non-computer
company having IT handle any internal application development that is
needed.

--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 12:36:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Wolfie wrote:
> Tim Smith wrote:
>
>
>>A problem that requires *all* of them to be restored is
>>more likely to be a problem with the development people
>>(and the QA people), not the IT people.
>
>
> Uh, development and QA are generally within the IT
> division. In fact I've never seen them organized elsewhere...
>
>
>
In our company, where QA and Development are a minor role, they are part
of IT. In the software development company my friend works at, QA,
Development, and IT are all seperate departments. IT is solely
responsible for keeping the computer infastruture running so that the QA
and Dev people (and all the rest) can work.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 2:42:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 18 Dec 2004 04:42:50 GMT, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

>Did you register? If so, you are ticking away your free month. I guess
>that is part of what makes it a little tougher to take. I don't
>anticipate them giving out "credits" to people for downtime. When I say
>credits, I am not speaking of money, but of time. So, down a day,
>credit a day.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...

"While we continue to work on the issues that have kept the EverQuest II
servers unavailable today, we wanted to let you know that in addition to the
experience and tradeskill debt wipes that were announced earlier, we will
also be offering free time to help make up for the time you're unable to
play. Exact details regarding time extensions will be available once we get
past our current problems.

This is a 24/7 effort on behalf of everyone involved. We will not rest until
all of EverQuest II is back up and running. We again apologize for the
inconvenience this has caused, and thank you all very much for your
understanding.

- The EverQuest II Team"
--
Henrik Dissing
Vork - Dwarf Warrior on Highkeep
Member of Highkeep Ring

(e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk)
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 6:17:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Henrik Dissing <sorry@drowned.in.spam.invalid> wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2004 04:42:50 GMT, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
> http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...
>
> "While we continue to work on the issues that have kept the EverQuest II
> servers unavailable today, we wanted to let you know that in addition to the
> experience and tradeskill debt wipes that were announced earlier, we will
> also be offering free time to help make up for the time you're unable to
> play. Exact details regarding time extensions will be available once we get
> past our current problems.
>
> This is a 24/7 effort on behalf of everyone involved. We will not rest until
> all of EverQuest II is back up and running. We again apologize for the
> inconvenience this has caused, and thank you all very much for your
> understanding.
>
> - The EverQuest II Team"

I do appreciate that. I will have to go take a look to what has lead up
to that.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 6:17:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Ah, this whole thread takes me back to my glory days in EQL. Back when
there were weekly patches, usually on a Tuesday or Wednesday, that were
supposed to last for two hours but usually lasted for six or more, with
frequent emergency patches to follow for a day or so after. It happened
pretty much every week, and it never failed to generate a "Servers down,
WTF?!!!" post or two or more.

I'll give the same advice that we gave back in the day. This is how it
works. We don't like it, but some of us like the game well enough to deal
with it. If you don't like the game well enough to deal with it, vote with
your feet and unsubscribe. Whining, stamping your feet, and anguished
teeth gnashing, while quite amusing to watch, really won't do a thing to
help the situation.

Honestly, it won't.

--
Annie

In EQII:

Unsubscribed

AGE EverQuest Live FAQ:
http://www.icynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm

Mirrored at:
http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm

http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html

_______

If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 6:29:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>
> LOL! OK, you are a more reasonable man than I gave you credit for. I
> have to confess I never would have imagined you to be in development
> yourself with some of what you were saying but perhaps that has more to
> do with our differing views and levels of patience with the industry.
>
> Before I forget, the shameless plug was for Mozilla Firefox and
> Thunderbird, which I suspect someone such as yourself is already well
> aware of. I am on of those MS bashers who loves to see such superior
> products come to market and thrive. More power to all the good people
> who make Mozilla a reality. They do really nice work but again, I
> realize you probably already know that.

Yep, I knew. It is distributed in source code form, so it is available
on most any platform. The also distribute binary for so you can just
download and run it. They have versions for several operating systems.
Plus, most distributions like RedHat, SUSE, etc all have prebuilt
packages available. I use Mozilla for web browsing and email, rather
than Firefox, but mostly because it is a little more refined and
integrated and because the quickstart capability is nice.

>
> I forget now, but isn't TIN a Linux app? I ran Linux for a year and
> loved it despite it's growing pains as a desktop OS at this time. I
> loved using something other than Windows and was impressed by its
> stability and was already comfortable with UNIX from my work experience
> so it was good fun to have a real OS on my box at home. I could live
> with all the beta (or worse) apps for everyday things as a home user of
> the system and actually liked a good many of them. I ran Winex for
> gaming, which was a rather limited but neat bit of coding that would run
> a fair number of games. It even ran EQ in Linux although it was broken
> every time there was a patch. I think they renamed it to Cedega now for
> some reason. If it evolves into a library for porting that works well
> perhaps there may be a better future for gaming on Linux but as it
> stands now, it's just too much hassle and too limited so back to windows
> I came, where I can run my games with little trouble overall.

TIN is a UNIX application. It can be compiled on most platforms. I
actually use FreeBSD for my firewall/server between my desktop [and two
other computers] and my DSL connection to the Internet. I log into a
shell on this machine to read USENET news.

>
> How's that for wandering way off topic? Hehe.
>

The nature of USENET.

> Anyways, as I think of it now it isn't hard to believe you are in
> development. I think some of software's harshest critics are those who
> develop and test it themselves. Did you ever read Code Complete by any
> chance? It was a good book in it's day, which was a long time ago now.
> It was fun to read about the disasterous projects and failures of
> Microsoft as they were working their way into the applications market.
> As I recall a lot of the book was, this is what I learned not to do.
>

In its day? That was only a few years ago. Anyway, no, I didn't,
although I do recall paging it.

> From something else you said though I get the impression you are in an
> area of the field where you are working within an IT group, perhaps
> developing inhouse applications for a corporation or something like
> that. I know that's just a guess but I had to wonder when you said
> you've never seen development that was not under the auspices of IT. My
> experience was in software development at companies where the two groups
> were separate entities, one of them being a company developing products
> for retail, Dragon Systems (speech recognition software). I also spent a
> long time in process control development and again, IT was a support
> service to us. If you think about it, for most retail applications
> including those that run on a network or even those that require one
> such as MMO's for users to use the product, it still makes sense for the
> two to be separate from one another. Developing EverQuest and testing it
> is really a separate thing from the day to day activities in managing a
> large group of servers. I cannot imagine EQ development working within
> the organization that keeps the network up. Nothing in my own experience
> would suggest that kind of organization.
>

I was a consultant for eight years until I hired onto my client in
March. I now work in a large corporate IT shop. While not perfect,
process is followed [almost too religeously] and it has increased
stability and quality for our clients so dramatically that it is almost
impossible to believe it was ever done differently.

> In any case, my real point was just that if it's irritating you don't
> let it. Life truly is too short and precious, you know? I'm only human
> too and not above failing to remember my own preaching sometimes. But in
> general I honestly don't get worked up about this stuff. I've been
> guilty of arguing about such things though but I have to admit that on
> my part it was mostly for amusement that I ever did so.

Heh ... I just played Wow all night and then went to bed. I did wake up
this morning to see if SOE team members did anything last night, but it
doesn't appear to be the case. I am a little concerned about their
backup scheme as it should have been as simple as pulling backups and
applying anything that changed since ... but heh.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
December 18, 2004 6:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Michael wrote:

> Then you've never worked at a software development company as I have
> where IT is simply a support service enabling people to get their work
> done.

Right, I said I've never worked at one organized like that.
From dictionary.com:

"information technology
n. Abbr. IT

The development, installation, and implementation of computer
systems and applications."

That's always been the IT umbrella in my experience. But my
experience is rather limited -- only 20 some years and only
five companies with a primary product of software. *shrug*
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 7:54:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41c39210$0$58274$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Why is that an assumption on my part.
>>
>> ...because it's reading into the statement something which hasn't been
>> said. You're filling in gaps in facts given with your own. As logical
>> as it may -seem- to you, it's still an assumption.
>>
>
> Yes it was said, and I even posted the quote right from the login
> screen, where I cut it from. You can go see it yourself, as it is still
> there. *shrug*
>

The problem here is this: None of the links or messages on the EQ2
launchapd are specifically written 'for' the EQ2 launchpad. They are links
to appropriate articles and/or text copies of messages on the EQ2 website.
The original message was posted in the forums, specifically , and a copy of
that article was placed on the launchpad.

Specifically, everything that shows up under the Update Notes section of the
launchpad is a text copy of articles in the Update Notes forum. So when SOE
said they would provide updates "here", they meant the Update Notes forum,
not the launchpad.

Dark Tyger is correct, you are assuming that this note in question was
specifically written for the launchpad. It was not. None of the items that
show in the launchpad truly are.


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Anonymous
December 18, 2004 7:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41c394bc$0$58274$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>
>> No, it was -NOT- said that updates would be posted in the patcher.
>> Just that updates would be given. -WHERE- was never mentioned. You
>> assumed they meant in the patcher window. Clearly you assumed wrong,
>> even if it seemed logical.
>>
>
> Do you know the difference between an implication and an inference?
>
> So ... why post that information there?
>

Look for my other reply somewhere further up on this thread. They didn't
truly post that information there. It was posted in the Update Notes forum,
and the original message in the forum thread was posted in the launchpad.




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Anonymous
December 18, 2004 8:39:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <CgYwd.157551$Oc.65222@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Wolfie wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
>> Then you've never worked at a software development company as I have
>> where IT is simply a support service enabling people to get their work
>> done.
>
> Right, I said I've never worked at one organized like that. From
> dictionary.com:
>
> "information technology n. Abbr. IT
>
> The development, installation, and implementation of computer systems and
> applications."

Geek.com's glossary says this:

IT (Information Technology) - The field of work dealing with computers
and technology, or more specifically, the organization within a company
that takes care of all of the computers, telephones, webservers, and
Internet connectivity that keeps a company able to communicate with the
outside world by electronic means.

That is more in line with what I've seen, and better matches what you find
if you go look at the job offerings from companies that sell software. The
development that falls under the IT umbrella tends to be *internal*
development.

Check out, for example, Microsoft, Apple, Symantec, and Blizzard, and you'll
find that the development jobs under the IT department/group/whatever are
for internal stuff, and the development jobs for things that are more
directly used by customers are under some kind of development department or
group.

I tried to check SOE's job offerings, but their jobs site is full of "page
not found" errors.

--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 8:41:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
> No, it was -NOT- said that updates would be posted in the patcher.

I don't think it matters *where* SOE says official announcements will
be posted. Customers shouldn't have to go *digging* for information
such as scheduled and unscheduled downtime, even if that information
is reasonably easily available on a web forum.

You should start EQ, and if the game in unavailable due to the servers
being down, EQ itself should tell you, right then and there. No fuss,
no muss, it should just tell you. It's not rocket science.

SOE has no qualms about *spamming* you when you start up EQ, surely
they can tell you if the servers are down for maintenance.
December 18, 2004 8:53:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

johndoe@example.com wrote:
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
>>No, it was -NOT- said that updates would be posted in the patcher.
>
>
> I don't think it matters *where* SOE says official announcements will
> be posted. Customers shouldn't have to go *digging* for information
> such as scheduled and unscheduled downtime, even if that information
> is reasonably easily available on a web forum.
>
> You should start EQ, and if the game in unavailable due to the servers
> being down, EQ itself should tell you, right then and there. No fuss,
> no muss, it should just tell you. It's not rocket science.
>
> SOE has no qualms about *spamming* you when you start up EQ, surely
> they can tell you if the servers are down for maintenance.

That's a good point and I agree. You'd think by now that every MMO on
the market would have this kind of informatin integrated into the
startup interface. It's such a trivial thing to implement it is hard to
believe nobody has yet.

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Anonymous
December 18, 2004 9:06:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
> So? What's the big deal? It's back up before too long and we can all get
> back to having fun.
>
> I swear, people who start screaming after a couple of hours' downtime just
> smack of being in dire need of a life. Get over it.

You have an interesting definition for "couple of hours".
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 10:24:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
>
> So? What's the big deal? It's back up before too long and we can all get
> back to having fun.
>
> I swear, people who start screaming after a couple of hours' downtime just
> smack of being in dire need of a life. Get over it.
>

couple of hours? I believe it is more than 26 hours so far.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 12:32:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

johndoe@example.com wrote in news:41c4719b$0$95316$a1866201@visi.com:

> Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
>> So? What's the big deal? It's back up before too long and we can all
>> get back to having fun.
>>
>> I swear, people who start screaming after a couple of hours' downtime
>> just smack of being in dire need of a life. Get over it.
>
> You have an interesting definition for "couple of hours".

Point taken. I didn't realize it had been that long. However, I still say
that getting so worked up about it is inappropriate.

Your expectations are unrealistic.

--
Rumble

"Either write something worth reading,
or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
December 19, 2004 12:32:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:
> johndoe@example.com wrote in news:41c4719b$0$95316$a1866201@visi.com:
>
>
>>Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>So? What's the big deal? It's back up before too long and we can all
>>>get back to having fun.
>>>
>>>I swear, people who start screaming after a couple of hours' downtime
>>>just smack of being in dire need of a life. Get over it.
>>
>>You have an interesting definition for "couple of hours".
>
>
> Point taken. I didn't realize it had been that long. However, I still say
> that getting so worked up about it is inappropriate.
>
> Your expectations are unrealistic.
>

Wow, I am not affected personally but that is one hell of an outtage.
That must be one bad bug. Man am I glad I don't work for development at
SOE. If it's any comfort to those who are upset by this my guess is that
those involved in the failure and more are suffering dearly for it.

--
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December 19, 2004 12:32:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:
> johndoe@example.com wrote in news:41c4719b$0$95316$a1866201@visi.com:
>
>
>>Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>So? What's the big deal? It's back up before too long and we can all
>>>get back to having fun.
>>>
>>>I swear, people who start screaming after a couple of hours' downtime
>>>just smack of being in dire need of a life. Get over it.
>>
>>You have an interesting definition for "couple of hours".
>
>
> Point taken. I didn't realize it had been that long. However, I still say
> that getting so worked up about it is inappropriate.
>
> Your expectations are unrealistic.
>

I once worked for about 18 hours straight on an extremely difficult to
reproduce bug in a product that was being developed for IBM. And at the
time the IBM contract was dependant on finding and fixing that failure
as rapidly as possible or a major source of revenue to the company would
be lost. Needless to say, there was more than a little pressure to
isolate and reproduce the problem. Given that experience I can imagine
the atmosphere the EQ II crew is working in to fix this problem.

--
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Anonymous
December 19, 2004 4:27:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
> Point taken. I didn't realize it had been that long. However, I still say
> that getting so worked up about it is inappropriate.
>
> Your expectations are unrealistic.

Your skill at mindreading has improved! (42)

I never posted any expectations.
December 19, 2004 9:48:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <8NPwd.2415$RH4.83@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com says...
> In article <NVNwd.157152$Oc.115137@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Wolfie wrote:
> >> A problem that requires *all* of them to be restored is more likely to be
> >> a problem with the development people (and the QA people), not the IT
> >> people.
> >
> > Uh, development and QA are generally within the IT division. In fact I've
> > never seen them organized elsewhere...
>
> Odd...I've never seen development and QA within IT. The IT departments in
> all the places I've seen have basically run the servers, managed the
> network, managed the phones, configured desktop machines, and stuff like
> that.
>
> All the places I've seen, though, have been computer companies, either
> making software or hardware (or both). I could see at a non-computer
> company having IT handle any internal application development that is
> needed.

/Agree

Software development to facilitate/automate internal business processes
is usually handled by IT.

Software development as a commercial venture is 'production' and is
usually separate from IT.

Software companies are likely to do both ... the IT department might be
writing a custom module to deal with some specific CRM req, while
production is developing Half Life 3...

of course if the software company makes and sells customer CRM
modules... production might make the module, and IT (and other
customers) will be treated as a 'preferred customer' and/or a beta test
site.
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 9:52:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

johndoe@example.com wrote in news:41c4d8f9$0$95318$a1866201@visi.com:

> Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotremovethispartmail.com> wrote:
>> Point taken. I didn't realize it had been that long. However, I still
>> say that getting so worked up about it is inappropriate.
>>
>> Your expectations are unrealistic.
>
> Your skill at mindreading has improved! (42)
>
> I never posted any expectations.

Yeah, I meant those of Thomas T. really. Got confused. My bad.

--
Rumble

"Either write something worth reading,
or do something worth writing." -- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 9:52:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Someone posted this on the GU forum, apparently straight from the
patcher notes:

"To Our Players 12/18/2004 8:30 pm

Hello Everyone,

We sincerely apologize for the downtime this weekend. We had some
hardware issues that caused us to have to tread very carefully in
bringing the game back up. We wanted to triple check everything to
make sure there wouldn’t be any major problems, and it’s taken a while
to both fix the problem (we had to fly out engineers from one of our
hardware vendors) and to bring each of the servers back online because
of the careful validation process we need to go through. We have to do
this very carefully and we hope you can understand our desire to do
this right. We're trying to balance that with getting the game back up
as quickly as possible. So far most servers are back up and the rest
should be up in the next 4-6 hours, hopefully less. I realize that
ETA's that come and go can frustrate people, so we do our best to give
you the most realistic estimates possible.

Out of respect for our players, we’re doing the following:

1) Every player will receive 3 free days.

2) Early this week (Monday or Tuesday) we will have a 24 hour period
where we will have accelerated XP gain. Details are still being worked
out and we’ll communicate this to you as we firm up the plans.

We are committed to providing you with excellent service. Our team has
been here for over 40 hours straight, and I can tell you our
dedication to doing right by our players is the thing that’s foremost
on everyone’s mind here at SOE.

Thank You,

John Smedley"

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 10:45:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:26:05 -0800, Dark Tyger
<darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:

>2) Early this week (Monday or Tuesday) we will have a 24 hour period
>where we will have accelerated XP gain. Details are still being worked
>out and we’ll communicate this to you as we firm up the plans.

I these wil be grouping days in my guild. :D 

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 10:07:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <e5bas0p94mj8mahphk2mnpgkv7ljp0hg8b@4ax.com>,
Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> quoted:
> 2) Early this week (Monday or Tuesday) we will have a 24 hour period
> where we will have accelerated XP gain. Details are still being worked
> out and we’ll communicate this to you as we firm up the plans.

That's not a good idea. When the period is up and things slow down
again, that will make the game seem slow by comparison.

In general, temporary changes to the game rules are a bad way to
apologize to or compensate the players.

Also, what about those people who are unable to play during that 24
hours? They will feel left out, like they are not getting their
compensation/apology for the downtime. Better would be to flag each
character as getting N hours /played of boosted XP, so that people will
get it regardless of their play schedules.

The three free days are much better.

A couple years ago in DAoC, they had a vaguely similar situation, in
that they had to do a small rollback. They too chose to
compensate/apologize by giving XP, but did it with a lump sum. That is,
when you logged in, you found that you simply had extra XP (about half a
level for me low 20's healer).

--
--Tim Smith
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 10:14:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:07:29 GMT, Tim Smith
<reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>In article <e5bas0p94mj8mahphk2mnpgkv7ljp0hg8b@4ax.com>,
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> quoted:
>> 2) Early this week (Monday or Tuesday) we will have a 24 hour period
>> where we will have accelerated XP gain. Details are still being worked
>> out and we’ll communicate this to you as we firm up the plans.
>
>That's not a good idea. When the period is up and things slow down
>again, that will make the game seem slow by comparison.
>
>In general, temporary changes to the game rules are a bad way to
>apologize to or compensate the players.
>
>Also, what about those people who are unable to play during that 24
>hours? They will feel left out, like they are not getting their
>compensation/apology for the downtime. Better would be to flag each
>character as getting N hours /played of boosted XP, so that people will
>get it regardless of their play schedules.

It's actually started today, and will continue until the Tue patch,
which we think is the big one.

Really nice boost - I ran over to the Commonland and am doing grey
quests while the XP reward is worth it. I'm also picking up the Orc
MAstery quest, as I want something to put in my extra 75 spaces I'll
soon have in my room. :) 

>The three free days are much better.
>
We're also getting these.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 1:02:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Mark Morrison" <drdpikeuk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:slkbs0p3nrt8492hfu5rf4g0aghga8j9k8@4ax.com...
..
> >
> We're also getting these.
>
You left out bwahahahahaha


=)
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 5:21:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41c35da6$0$58291$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Well, tht was just a pipe dream I had while reading about the all
> servers are up excecpt ... all servers are down message! If Blizzard
> owned them ... they just might be up! I also note that they promised to
> update use EVERY HOUR and they have failed to do so over the last 3.5
> hours!
>

Blizzard are renown for keeping their customers in the dark. WoW has had
some pretty major downtimes too.
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 5:38:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Vladesch <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote:
>
> Blizzard are renown for keeping their customers in the dark. WoW has had
> some pretty major downtimes too.
>

So I have heard. However, in my experience so far, only EQ2 has had
downtime. Further, the first [and really only] time I played EQ1, last
march, the login servers were down and I was frustrated that I had a new
game and couldn't play it. As it turns out, I got bored and quit
playing it anyway. Then EQ2 and Wow came along and changed my life
forever.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 6:14:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
news:xjWxd.83294$K7.51252@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:41c35da6$0$58291$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
>> Well, tht was just a pipe dream I had while reading about the all
>> servers are up excecpt ... all servers are down message! If Blizzard
>> owned them ... they just might be up! I also note that they promised
>> to update use EVERY HOUR and they have failed to do so over the last
>> 3.5 hours!
>>
>
> Blizzard are renown for keeping their customers in the dark. WoW has
> had some pretty major downtimes too.
>
>
>

I love WoW - but I'm not about to start putting the devs up on
some pedestal.

--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
Lanys T'vyl (Retired)

Mairelon, 11th Paladin
Silverhand

My WoW Mods: http://therealorang.com
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 6:14:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 21 Dec 2004 15:14:32 GMT, Sean Kennedy wrote:

> "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
> news:xjWxd.83294$K7.51252@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
>> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:41c35da6$0$58291$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
>>> Well, tht was just a pipe dream I had while reading about the all
>>> servers are up excecpt ... all servers are down message! If Blizzard
>>> owned them ... they just might be up! I also note that they promised
>>> to update use EVERY HOUR and they have failed to do so over the last
>>> 3.5 hours!
>>>
>>
>> Blizzard are renown for keeping their customers in the dark. WoW has
>> had some pretty major downtimes too.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I love WoW - but I'm not about to start putting the devs up on
> some pedestal.

For that matter there is absolutely *no* MMOG made yet that has not had
*some* downtime outside of normal maintenence (excluding MUDs, MUSHs, etc).
On the upside, watching the complaining and stressing over not being able
to play a game (SOE OWES ME MY 42 CENTS FOR TODAY!!!!) are quite comical. I
hope they *never* develop one that never goes down. I'd miss reading those
threads!
--
RJB
12/21/2004 10:16:42 AM

I bought some powdered water, but I don't know what to add to it.
--Steven Wright
!