The choice between EQ2 and WOW.

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Well, I have both EQ2 and WOW. I am a newbie, basically, who has only
been playing both for the last two weeks. I intend to only keep one,
and I think I have made my choice, but I will get to that. I will start
with Wow.

What I liked immediately about WOW was that all the quests are directed.
The first couple of quests were simple and simply kill a monster and
move on. However, as a newbie, this was a good thing. The quests
beyond that always matched a developing storyline and indicated some of
the history in WOW. At first, I was struck that the graphics in WOW
were not as sharp as they were in EQ2 [I actually tried EQ2 just a
little before WOW]. After playing a bit I realized that the landscapes
and fortresses were beautiful. I do wish that there
was more detail in some of the things I see though, like more polygons
to take real use of the modern 3D graphics cards. Advancing from level
to level was challenging, but clear. It was clear to me "what" I needed
to be doing. I didn't have to spend a lot of time wandering around to
figure out what to do next or who to talk to. I found myself wanting to
come back for more. I have started a few characters on several servers
and now I have two real characters I am building; an 11th level gnome
mage and a 9th level tauren hunter. I have truly enjoyed both of these
characters. The quests are unique to the landscape and often to the
class or race and they are truly elaborate, with each quest offering a
LOT of detail and direction. They are a pleasure to run. However, from
time to time, I found myself yearning for EQ2, as I missed the graphics
and the curiosity knowing that it is the successor to EQ1.

What I liked immediately about EQ2 was the wonderful graphical scenery
[the sky was always a pleasure] and the awesome starting tutorials. I
found myself monkeying around with a few different characters until I
found one or two I like working with. I currrently am running a 6th
level dark elf mage and a 8th level half-elf priest. I the skill system
in EQ2 is always intriquing to me, but while playing nothing in the game
indicates to me how to really advance this [the tutorial had some basic
stuff] so I am left digging through material outside the game. No
resolution there yet. While playing I have had trouble forming groups
of any kind. There was a small period of time when it was easy, but it
has been especially tough to even get people to talk to me since the
downtime this weekend [I will not use that downtime in my decision of
which game to stick with]. I have found several bugs in the game, which
have also frustrated me. Waypoint simply do not work [except for shard
quests or those initially when I got off of the ship in Qeynos or
Freeport]. I ask to find an NPC and they ALWAYS shrug at me. I have to
ask other players and they nothing helpful is on the map. Why text in
the chat log indicates that a yellow path will lead me somewhere just to
have it not work is beyond me, but it wasn't a problem last week when I
started playing and now it is. I have had a few problems with quests as
well, which has been frustrating. Often, I have a quest which includes
finding a player in, say, North Qeyos. Well, that is a big place. I am
all for exploring, but Sheesh, it takes forever to hunt for a needle in
a haystack. I ask guards for help, but they always shrug and don't know
who the NPC is . I finally do find the
person after 20 minutes or so of searching in many cases. Something I
find really cool are the voiceovers. I read that several people are
annoyed by this, and I can understand that if you hear the same one over
and over, but for the most part, I like it better than reading all the
text all the time. But really, I would love to give this feature up if
it meant that quests were more detailed. I have found that performing a
quest is often tedious because it is not clear where I need to be to
complete it. Further, I collected about 5 quests and after a while, I
had no idea where I had collected the quest and thus who I should see to
complete it. Overall, I find the questing system to be laborious and
confusing. But perhaps, those more familiar with EQ1 don't notice. I
am curious about staring characters in this game. It seems that all
characters have to go through nearly exactly the same steps to get
further in the game, I don't know where the similarities diverge [i.e.
all start on the Island of Refuge and fight goblins, all get a room in
their new home city and all fight critters to build experience]. It
seems that the basic plotline should differ for different character
types. Perhaps that occurs at higher levels than I have been, which
admittedly is not very far.

Well, I probably could continue on and on, but I have written enough and
there is enough for me to make a conclusion. I have decided that there
was a lot less to be frustrated about in World of Warcraft, so that is
where I am going to spend my time for the next several months. I may
give Everquest II another chance when I have made it to where I want to
be in WOW. The graphics and scenery in EQ2 made this a tough decision,
but in the end, it was the frustration level that led me to my
conclusion. I found myself relying on responses from other players in
the hope of cutting off 20 minute searches just to find a NPC which only
gets me one check mark in a quest. The quests in WOW are very detailed,
with enough general detail to get me a solid start on what must be done
[i.e. in a particular zone I have a quest that requires me to visit a
particular village and then to head south east of that village looking
for a particular item dropped from a troll headhunter. It is clear! No
frustration trying to find the village. No frustration trying to figure
out where in all of Qeynos I might find a NPC [although it does happen
in Wow too but not nearly as much]. Also, I found some irritating bugs
in EQ2 which made for some of the frustration indicated above ... so I
can look forward to those being fixed in the future.

I am sure that this post COULD draw some flames, but I really hope it
does not. What I wanted to indicate was my thought process that went
into my decision and hopefully others might add to this and I might read
enough here to keep my curiosity high and to draw me back sooner rather
than later. Also, if what I write here gives enough information to
other potential players, they may learn from what I wrote and find ways
through the problem that I was not able to do. If others come to the
same conclusion as myself, I would like to read that too.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
124 answers Last reply
More about choice
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
    I am sure that this post COULD draw some flames, but I really hope it
    > does not. What I wanted to indicate was my thought process that went
    > into my decision and hopefully others might add to this and I might
    > read enough here to keep my curiosity high and to draw me back sooner
    > rather than later. Also, if what I write here gives enough
    > information to other potential players, they may learn from what I
    > wrote and find ways through the problem that I was not able to do.
    > If others come to the same conclusion as myself, I would like to read
    > that too.

    Pretty well sums up much of my feelings, too, almost exactly as a matter of
    fact.

    --
    chainbreaker
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    > I am sure that this post COULD draw some flames, but I really hope it does
    not. What I wanted to indicate was my thought process that went into my
    decision and hopefully others might add to this and I might read enough here
    to keep my curiosity high and to draw me back sooner rather than later.
    Also, if what I write here gives enough information to other potential
    players, they may learn from what I wrote and find ways through the problem
    that I was not able to do. If others come to the same conclusion as myself,
    I would like to read that too.
    >
    > --
    > Thomas T. Veldhouse
    > Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
    > Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
    >

    I haven't tried WOW but I really like EQ2 and I'm kind of surprised at the
    particular problems you are having because it's the ease of questing that is
    one thing I've found to be a lot of fun in EQ. Perhaps because I'm comparing
    it to the difficulty of following a quest in EQ1, and you are comparing to
    WOW. I've never had any trouble getting help from a guard. Sometimes you
    have to be closer to the NPC, so you just need to keep asking guards until
    you find one close enough. Sometimes using the right name is important too.
    Usually I can just type in the first name and I get a response.

    The journal does a good job of keeping track of every step of the quest and
    if you forget where you got it or what to do next it's really easy to look
    back at the journal and it will tell you exactly where to go to return the
    quest item.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    To each his (or her) own with games.

    One thing I find a bit puzzling it how you want quests to tell you exactly
    what to do, specific locations etc. That would seem to me to detract a lot
    from the concept of questing.

    I have a level 26 character based in Qeynos, and have done something like
    210 quests, with another 35 in my journal. Only in a few of these quests
    have I had trouble locating NPC's or where/what/how of it. I'm not a
    particularly patient person either. I think one or two of those quests you
    don't like, I saw immediately for what they were - quests that let you get
    to know the zone, and have an actual reward base to it.

    You have 5 quests in your journal and you can't remember where some of them
    originated? You must have a poor memory then, as each quest gives the zone
    in which it began, with the NPC name, and a summary in the journal - almost
    all the time this is plenty for me to recall where that particular NPC is
    (if the journal doesn't mention their occupation/location in the zone
    anyway). I also like how some of the quests have a puzzle/riddle element to
    it (for example - one involves finding the ever vigilant cyclops in
    Antonica, which is the lighthouse).

    I quite like the questing system as it is - there is always some kind of
    quest, of varying types, to do - and I've never felt overburdened or lost
    with it (I've never written anything down, only gone from the journal as
    well). I also don't want everything handed to me on a silver platter - I
    WANT to have to work some things out on my own, to do *some* exploring - I
    feel this is integral to the whole idea of questing. No system is perfect,
    no system will suit everyone, and there are some smaller issues with the
    quest system, but overall I like it.

    As I said though, to each his own. If you don't enjoy it then you don't,
    and if WoW's easier style suits you, then thats great :)

    There ARE a couple of major issues I have with EverQuest 2 though, mainly
    relating to the technical side of things. It needs a beefy system to run it
    well at medium settings, and even so it is still not optimized (my 6800GT,
    made by nVidia who are a sponser, hardly breaks a sweat as GPU temp rises
    only a few degrees at most - meaning something is stopping full utilization
    of the graphics card). There is a rather major memory leak in game, so
    after a couple hours or more in the game, performace starts to degrade a
    lot, especially if you are moving around lots of zones. EverQuest 2 code in
    general is not as polished as World of Warcraft (which I guess everyone was
    expecting).

    However, none of these are showstopping things, and 95% of the time my
    gaming experience is fine.

    "It seems that all characters have to go through nearly exactly the same
    steps to get further in the game" ... "It seems that the basic plotline
    should differ for different character types. Perhaps that occurs at higher
    levels than I have been, which admittedly is not very far."

    You have (obviously) never got to the class progression levels (10 & 20) so
    I guess I can fill you in a bit here. As a mage going to summoner at (10),
    and especially going to conjuror at 20 the tasks for progression were very
    related to the class (for example as a conjuror I had to combat the four
    different elementals as part of my quest. As a scout as part of it I had to
    sneak my way through a tavern with brigands to find and kill their leader.
    Not huge diversity but are related to the class. The whole point of the
    system is that players don't have to make the BIG choices (which of the 24
    different classes they want to play) at the start. Most will know if they
    want a mage, priest, scout or fighter type of character, but not
    specifically what. I think it makes sense this way (as far as class based
    systems go)

    I've never played World of Warcraft, but have heard it is a very polished
    game, very stylized and varied throughout with a good questing system. What
    could be worrying about the game though, is that I've heard from more
    experienced gamers who have a gripe about the lack of depth in the game.
    Players reached their maximum level in under 2 weeks, and already there are
    tonnes of max level players; these players also discover a lack of depth in
    the game, especially from a PvE (player vs environment) perspective; PvP has
    some serious issues and is not fully developed. Note that this is just what
    I've heard, as I dont' play myself.

    To sum up my response to your post:
    You are obviously looking for a PvE game, as EQ2 has none and was a game you
    were considering - so from a PvE perspective:

    WoW: Runs well on many systems, with a unique look. Very polished, fun and
    varied for new players. Questing system detailed and informative, with many
    to do. Game lacks depth at higher levels. Community (from what I've heard)
    is not so good, with a lot of the battle.net idiots on it.

    EQ2: Needs beefy system, very high end graphics sometimes on par with latest
    FPS games. Not so polished, but few showstopping bugs. Questing system
    detailed and varied, hundreds to do - requires more (memory) from the player
    though. More depth (in content & encounters) throughout the game. More
    group oriented playstyle than WoW. Community is better than WoW, but not
    that great, certainly not very communicative - neither have that real
    community feel that EQ1 has (yet). Probably more PvE potential than WoW
    (both technical - we haven't seen all this engine can do, and content wise).
    Of course, if you want PvP, then you have to go WoW :p (or Lineage 2, or
    DAOC or etc etc etc)

    (There is of course a lot more I could have wrote here, but I just thought
    I'd respond to your points with my own opinion :)
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "G" <i.have.too@much.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:9htxd.80965$K7.14686@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
    > To each his (or her) own with games.
    >
    > (There is of course a lot more I could have wrote here, but I just thought
    > I'd respond to your points with my own opinion :)
    >
    >
    That was a good read G =)

    I would like to add there are some really good websites relating to EQ2 also
    which I have found really useful so far.

    Apart from eqplayers.com you can try:
    http://eq2.allakhazam.com/ - free but if you pay the premium you get
    heaps more search options as well as being able to use the subscription for
    the other games listed.
    http://www.eq2-artisan.com/ - lots of helpful stuff on tradeskilling and
    harvesting.

    http://www.gry-online.pl/eq2/index.asp - great maps and a handy "where am I
    ?" locator as well as quest info down the bottom of the page.

    There is so much to do, I don't know where to start sometimes =)


    --
    eq2.najena.Simonette
    eq2.najena.Floriana
    eq.bristlebane.Simonette
    eq.bristlebane.Agapanthus
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest, alt.games.everquest2, alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Basically WoW is more for the newcomer, a simpler game, more solo
    oriented.
    EQ2 is for the old style MMORPG player. Complex (less so than EQ1 but
    still complex), difficult at times, and pretty much requires you to
    group. You can solo in EQ2, but for the most part you will need to be
    in a group.
    I see them as almost opposite games. Either you like one or the other,
    it's just a matter of styles.
    My style, I still think City of Heroes is the best MMORPG out there :)
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Pamela Carlton" wrote:
    >
    > "G" <i.have.too@much.spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:9htxd.80965$K7.14686@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
    > > To each his (or her) own with games.
    > >
    > > (There is of course a lot more I could have wrote here, but I just
    thought
    > > I'd respond to your points with my own opinion :)
    > >
    > >
    > That was a good read G =)
    >
    > I would like to add there are some really good websites relating to EQ2
    also
    > which I have found really useful so far.

    <sites snipped>

    What, exactly, is the difference between having a NPC in-game tell you
    exactly where to go and what to do to complete a quest (or an an exact
    tradeskill recipe) and having to go to a third-party site to get the same
    info?

    Personally, I like the fact that I've never ... not ever .. not once had to
    go to an outside resource to comple a quest or come up with a recipe in WoW.
    IMO, getting the info from a NPC tends to keep one more engaged in the game.

    Crash
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

    <snip>

    You summed up a great deal of what I find frustrating about EverQuest 2,
    except for your issues with the quest system which I do find somewhat
    confusing. My mmorpg experience began with EQ1 and I have to say that I
    find EQ2's system to be vastly superior...the journal which keeps track
    of every quest is always fairly clear, and gone is the need to write
    down all the quests I'm doing on paper to keep track of them in detail.

    Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
    classes and plot progression for each character to be very
    disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
    EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
    however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
    progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
    improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
    the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
    to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
    diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
    middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's harmonious
    Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
    while they were at it?

    The diversity is what I miss...it was a defining feature of EQ1 to me,
    each race with it's own characteristics, traits, history, it's own home
    which could and sometimes was a day's (Real time) walk from the two main
    cities, and you got the diversity between races and classes from the
    very moment you enterred the game as a level 1 character. You didn't
    have to wait until you were in your teens to be different to every other
    person you met.

    Like I said, all this rambling and it hasn't put me off EQ2 at all,
    however it hasn't helped make the game more enjoyable than City of
    Heroes for me, and hasn't stopped me yearning for the style of gameplay
    I have in EQ1. I go back to EQ1 to get that gameplay, but the zones are
    quiet and I just keep thinking "I want the graphically rich world and
    the busy zones back".

    --
    Michael Greenhalgh
    ---
    www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
    www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
    www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
    ---
    MMORPGs
    EverQuest:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

    EverQuest 2:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

    City of Heroes:
    Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
    ---
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    G wrote:

    > There ARE a couple of major issues I have with EverQuest 2 though, mainly
    > relating to the technical side of things. It needs a beefy system to run it
    > well at medium settings, and even so it is still not optimized (my 6800GT,
    > made by nVidia who are a sponser, hardly breaks a sweat as GPU temp rises
    > only a few degrees at most - meaning something is stopping full utilization
    > of the graphics card). There is a rather major memory leak in game, so
    > after a couple hours or more in the game, performace starts to degrade a
    > lot, especially if you are moving around lots of zones. EverQuest 2 code in
    > general is not as polished as World of Warcraft (which I guess everyone was
    > expecting).

    Thank you for mentioning this, as I was beginning to wonder if I was the
    only one who had noticed it. I had noticed that of the software I run,
    EverQuest 2 does tend to force me to restart the system after use, or
    after I use it a few times, as it seems to give my machine a fairly
    hefty memory hit.

    That said, I doubt it's entirely EverQuest 2's fault. I believe my
    machine is suffering a few memory related errors, however EQ2 causes the
    worst of them.

    --
    Michael Greenhalgh
    ---
    www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
    www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
    www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
    ---
    MMORPGs
    EverQuest:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

    EverQuest 2:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

    City of Heroes:
    Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
    ---
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    > Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
    > classes and plot progression for each character to be very
    > disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
    > EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
    > however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
    > progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
    > improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
    > the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
    > to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
    > diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
    > middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's harmonious
    > Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
    > while they were at it?

    This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
    suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
    I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
    Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
    dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
    proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
    couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
    choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
    same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
    your concern.

    > Like I said, all this rambling and it hasn't put me off EQ2 at all,
    > however it hasn't helped make the game more enjoyable than City of
    > Heroes for me, and hasn't stopped me yearning for the style of gameplay
    > I have in EQ1. I go back to EQ1 to get that gameplay, but the zones are
    > quiet and I just keep thinking "I want the graphically rich world and
    > the busy zones back".

    Amen to that. I really hope they do merge servers. Especially the ubi
    servers as they are nearly dead imho.


    Hagen
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Cheddar wrote:
    > I dont want to sound negative as I really like EQ2 but there seem to
    > a LOT of annoying gameplay features that kill the experience for me
    > personally.

    I suspect a lot of EQ2's problems, "features", whatever, have to do with it
    evidently being rushed to marked long before it was ready. I didn't
    participate in the beta, but I remember reading the accounts of several beta
    testers with great interest, particularly at how shocked several of them
    were that the game could be considered ready to ship when it did.

    It appears that SOE felt like they had to get the game on shelves before
    WoW, a move that if true may have hurt more than helped.

    --
    chainbreaker

    If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
    net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In alt.games.everquest Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > Thank you for mentioning this, as I was beginning to wonder if I was the
    > only one who had noticed it. I had noticed that of the software I run,
    > EverQuest 2 does tend to force me to restart the system after use, or
    > after I use it a few times, as it seems to give my machine a fairly
    > hefty memory hit.
    >

    I have not had this problem at all. I am curious about your
    configuration. Do you use NVidia drivers by chance? I use an ATI
    Radeon 9700Pro 128MB DDR video card with the ATI Catalyst drivers and
    have not noticed any trouble with memory leaks [I am running P4-3.06HT
    w/1024MB RDRAM1066].

    > That said, I doubt it's entirely EverQuest 2's fault. I believe my
    > machine is suffering a few memory related errors, however EQ2 causes the
    > worst of them.
    >

    The more memory and cpu itensive an application the much more likely you
    are to uncover memory or cpu problems if they exist.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
    Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    I had serious problems with a few of the quests, but
    http://www.gry-online.pl/eq2/maps.asp?ID=6 seems to cover a lot of them,
    including decent maps and npc locations. I think the journal is sometimes
    wrong, and sometimes inadequate, and that there was a lot reported in beta
    they shouldn't have ignored before going live, but I'm disengaged from
    roleplaying and am just playing to bash things and go for shinies, and it
    works ok.

    If they fix things up better, I'll roleplay again, but having been a hot
    potato, and chucked from gm's to devs to the too-hard basket, i've gotten a
    little cynical. That said, whilst I'm keeping an eye out for WoW, i love EQ2
    most of the time. The art and characterisation is superb and i think there's
    a lot of talented people here.

    Now if only they allowed offline trading! And fixed up the betrayal quest so
    that you were level capped as soon as you accepted it, or at least made it
    unlimited for level... after all, redemption and corruption can occur to
    young and old alike.

    Ralph, lv12 crusader, najena

    p.s. any casual family guilds on najena? pref Australian?
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    > Well, I probably could continue on and on, but I have written enough and
    > there is enough for me to make a conclusion. I have decided that there
    > was a lot less to be frustrated about in World of Warcraft, so that is
    > where I am going to spend my time for the next several months. I may
    > give Everquest II another chance when I have made it to where I want to
    > be in WOW. The graphics and scenery in EQ2 made this a tough decision,
    > but in the end, it was the frustration level that led me to my
    > conclusion. I found myself relying on responses from other players in
    > the hope of cutting off 20 minute searches just to find a NPC which only
    > gets me one check mark in a quest. The quests in WOW are very detailed,
    > with enough general detail to get me a solid start on what must be done
    > [i.e. in a particular zone I have a quest that requires me to visit a
    > particular village and then to head south east of that village looking
    > for a particular item dropped from a troll headhunter. It is clear! No
    > frustration trying to find the village. No frustration trying to figure
    > out where in all of Qeynos I might find a NPC [although it does happen
    > in Wow too but not nearly as much]. Also, I found some irritating bugs
    > in EQ2 which made for some of the frustration indicated above ... so I
    > can look forward to those being fixed in the future.

    This is mostly the reasons that I chose WoW over EQ2 as well, but I wanted
    to add a couple of items. Locked encounters, EQ2 means you can't help
    people, WoW means the NPC is locked and you can't KS it, but you can help.
    This can potentially lead to PL'ing, if the newbie can damage the NPC, if
    the newbie can't then they can't lock it. Also there is some xp loss if the
    killing group does not do over 50%, not alot but a little (at least in the
    testing my wife and I have done). Also you left off the no zoning (well
    unless you are porting across the world), this is huge, doing quests in EQ2
    "feels" like 50% of the time I am zoning in and out of places. Lastly I
    think the WoW world is just more diverse, dwarves have an interesting
    progression through lands to hunt in that is different from the humans that
    is different from the elves. Sure you can move to any of the others, but it
    still gives you 3 choices of areas to progress through.
    Grouping in both were pretty much just get together do this quest break up,
    at least in my experiences.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:15:00 -0500, chainbreaker wrote:

    > Cheddar wrote:
    >> I dont want to sound negative as I really like EQ2 but there seem to
    >> a LOT of annoying gameplay features that kill the experience for me
    >> personally.
    >
    > I suspect a lot of EQ2's problems, "features", whatever, have to do with it
    > evidently being rushed to marked long before it was ready. I didn't
    > participate in the beta, but I remember reading the accounts of several beta
    > testers with great interest, particularly at how shocked several of them
    > were that the game could be considered ready to ship when it did.
    That's not surprising seeing what they did with SWG. SOE has their
    deadlines and the *don't* budge an inch. Especially when it comes to beta
    complaints. Sometimes I wonder why they bother with beta... sure they
    listen for a while but during the last few weeks they put their hands over
    their ears and do the "La la la la I'm not listening to you" act.

    >
    > It appears that SOE felt like they had to get the game on shelves before
    > WoW, a move that if true may have hurt more than helped.

    I was burned twice. There won't be a third time (unless they change their
    ways - fat chance of that though).


    --
    RJB
    12/20/2004 3:56:33 PM

    Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for
    that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.
    --Drew Carey
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:
    > 5. Map - Awful! Why cant you see what direction you are facing? Why arnt
    > locations you have visited marked on the map? Why cant you scroll the map?
    The first one was heavily discussed in beta and I'm glad they did *not*
    put an arrow on that map. I mean you do have a compass and a map that is
    oriented with north being top. So it shouldn't be much of a deal to
    figure out your heading. And it resembles more the standard way of dealing
    with printed maps imho.

    Though I'm sad to hear that the other points weren't adressed by the
    devs as they too were discussed in beta.


    Hagen
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "Hagen Sienhold" <durragon@web.de> wrote in message
    news:j007qc.j31.ln@arellarti.fqdn.th-h.de...
    > Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:
    >> 5. Map - Awful! Why cant you see what direction you are facing? Why arnt
    >> locations you have visited marked on the map? Why cant you scroll the
    >> map?
    > The first one was heavily discussed in beta and I'm glad they did *not*
    > put an arrow on that map. I mean you do have a compass and a map that is
    > oriented with north being top. So it shouldn't be much of a deal to
    > figure out your heading. And it resembles more the standard way of dealing
    > with printed maps imho.
    >
    > Though I'm sad to hear that the other points weren't adressed by the
    > devs as they too were discussed in beta.

    What exactly was changed during the beta to final stage? I'm curious as
    there seems a lot of very obvious problems that must have been spotted
    during the beta but were simply ignored by the developers.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:45:02 GMT, "Jeff Lindholm"
    <jeff_news@lindholm.org> wrote:

    >Lastly I
    >think the WoW world is just more diverse, dwarves have an interesting
    >progression through lands to hunt in that is different from the humans that
    >is different from the elves. Sure you can move to any of the others, but it
    >still gives you 3 choices of areas to progress through.

    No, it gives you 6 different choices of areas to progress through, as
    you can play as the Horde as well.

    --
    byerstheoblivious
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Michael Greenhalgh" <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:32noskF3p4bnjU1@individual.net...
    > G wrote:
    >
    > > There ARE a couple of major issues I have with EverQuest 2 though,
    mainly
    > > relating to the technical side of things. It needs a beefy system to
    run it
    > > well at medium settings, and even so it is still not optimized (my
    6800GT,
    > > made by nVidia who are a sponser, hardly breaks a sweat as GPU temp
    rises
    > > only a few degrees at most - meaning something is stopping full
    utilization
    > > of the graphics card). There is a rather major memory leak in game, so
    > > after a couple hours or more in the game, performace starts to degrade a
    > > lot, especially if you are moving around lots of zones. EverQuest 2
    code in
    > > general is not as polished as World of Warcraft (which I guess everyone
    was
    > > expecting).
    >
    > Thank you for mentioning this, as I was beginning to wonder if I was the
    > only one who had noticed it. I had noticed that of the software I run,
    > EverQuest 2 does tend to force me to restart the system after use, or
    > after I use it a few times, as it seems to give my machine a fairly
    > hefty memory hit.
    >
    > That said, I doubt it's entirely EverQuest 2's fault. I believe my
    > machine is suffering a few memory related errors, however EQ2 causes the
    > worst of them.

    My daughter has the same problem and when I was on the Sony site there was a
    thread dedicated to this subject. The problem described was EXACTLY what she
    is experiencing, so it's not with her system.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <1103552736.717596.223880@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
    wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
    > Basically WoW is more for the newcomer, a simpler game, more solo
    > oriented.

    > EQ2 is for the old style MMORPG player. Complex (less so than EQ1 but
    > still complex), difficult at times, and pretty much requires you to
    > group.

    > You can solo in EQ2, but for the most part you will need to be
    > in a group.

    I think EQ1 is among the simplest of mmogs that I've ever played. I'm
    not sure why you'd even think of suggesting that it was complex.

    I would agree that EQ2 is "harder" than WoW, but not because its more
    complex, or more advanced, or anything but the raw fact that progression
    is slower and you need a group to progress at all at a reasonable speed.

    So you'll get farther in the same amount of time in WoW. But that's more
    owing to EQ2 being less generous with the XP, particularly on soloable
    content than anything to do with 'complexity'.

    > I see them as almost opposite games. Either you like one or the other,
    > it's just a matter of styles.

    We can all agree with that. Why not just stick with that instead of
    trying to elevate EQ2 as being the 'advanced title'? :)
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <2sCxd.1019$al7.204@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>, Jeff Lindholm
    wrote about WoW:
    > the newbie can't then they can't lock it. Also there is some xp loss if
    > the killing group does not do over 50%, not alot but a little (at least in
    > the testing my wife and I have done). Also you left off the no zoning

    I think it depends on level. When a friend and I tested, if a lowbie
    started the fight and someone much higher then finished the mob, doing
    most of the damage, the lowbie got much less than normal XP.

    --
    --Tim Smith
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Crash86" <crash86@shotmail.com> writes:

    > What, exactly, is the difference between having a NPC in-game tell you
    > exactly where to go and what to do to complete a quest (or an an exact
    > tradeskill recipe) and having to go to a third-party site to get the same
    > info?

    The difference is that in the second case, you can wait with checking
    the exact details until you're really stuck, while in the first you
    know from the beginning. For me, this takes away some of the fun of
    exploring, which is why I've pretty much never used any third-party
    sites for EQ2 quests, except for ones that are bugged. An example is
    Cleansing the Corruption in Stormhold, which requires me to kill two
    defiled squalls, but the squalls are bugged and seem to get stuck
    where they can't be reached, which I didn't know until I checked it
    outside the game. Maybe later on I'll need to, but I hope not.
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest, alt.games.everquest2, alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Did I say 'advanced' anywhere?
    I said EQ2 is more complex, harder, with a steeper learning curve than
    WoW. The experience MMORPGer could get to max level in Wow in a
    fraction of the time it'd take in EQ2, and then, there's a high chance
    they'll get bored of the game sooner (for those people that like to
    race to max level and then get bored).
    Several dungeons in EQ2 require you to perform complex quests, many of
    them requiring full groups to complete. This is what I meant by
    complex. To some people, this is a stupid approach, and thus, are the
    type of people that like games like WoW and CoH where they can advance
    at their own pace and not miss much content. To others, this is what
    makes a MMORPG for them, needing other people, trusting in their
    capabilities, do your job and hope for the best... these are the type
    of people that like games like EQ2.
    A game being complex doesn't make it better or more advanced than
    another, just makes it attractive to some types of players.

    Just for the record, City of Heroes could be considered one of the
    simpler games out there (no inventory, no loot, no crafting, etc) yet
    it's the most enjoyable MMORPG I've ever played.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote:
    > "Crash86" <crash86@shotmail.com> writes:
    >
    > > What, exactly, is the difference between having a NPC in-game tell you
    > > exactly where to go and what to do to complete a quest (or an an exact
    > > tradeskill recipe) and having to go to a third-party site to get the
    same
    > > info?
    >
    > The difference is that in the second case, you can wait with checking
    > the exact details until you're really stuck, while in the first you
    > know from the beginning. For me, this takes away some of the fun of
    > exploring, which is why I've pretty much never used any third-party
    > sites for EQ2 quests, except for ones that are bugged. An example is
    > Cleansing the Corruption in Stormhold, which requires me to kill two
    > defiled squalls, but the squalls are bugged and seem to get stuck
    > where they can't be reached, which I didn't know until I checked it
    > outside the game. Maybe later on I'll need to, but I hope not.

    That would be great if that's the way it worked. Unfortunately, it doesn't
    work that way. Folks research encounters before they even start them. In
    fact, it can be said that such research is required reading for many
    encounters.

    In WoW, I've never started a quest on purpose ... not once. Every quest
    I've done has been started by the same method, which goes something like
    this: "Hey, there's a NPC with a yellow exclamation point over his head.
    Let's see what he's handing out." Walk over to NPC, click on them, get
    info, accept quest. I've never researched any quests in WoW, nor do I
    intend to.

    I know quite a few people who won't play EQL (or EQ2) without having a
    second box right next to them to be used for hitting the spoiler sites.

    Anyone can cook when using a cookbook. I much prefer the ability to stay in
    game, pick up quests from any quest NPC I see, and have a reasonable chance
    of staying immersed.

    Mind you, with Blizzard's system I still get the fun of exploring .... in
    fact, that's one of the things I'm enjoying most about WoW. It's a new
    world, and I don't know precisely what's around that next corner. I'm
    focused, I'm having fun, and I don't want to have to leave that to go to a
    third party site to find out the precise loc of the particular NPC in all of
    some huge zone (like Antonica) I need to talk to to move the quest along.

    To each their own.

    FWIW, I've yet to come across broken quests in WoW, so I have no need of the
    spolier sites for the reason you've outlined above. YMMV.

    Crash
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
    Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
    >Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.

    Actually, that's not true.
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "the wharf rat" wrote:
    > In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
    > Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
    > >Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.
    >
    > Actually, that's not true.

    I never said anything about the quality of the food they can produce. ;-)

    Crash
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Crash86" <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:vLBxd.31361$Pw2.19248@fe05.lga...

    > What, exactly, is the difference between having a NPC in-game tell you
    > exactly where to go and what to do to complete a quest (or an an exact
    > tradeskill recipe) and having to go to a third-party site to get the same
    > info?
    >
    > Personally, I like the fact that I've never ... not ever .. not once had
    to
    > go to an outside resource to comple a quest or come up with a recipe in
    WoW.
    > IMO, getting the info from a NPC tends to keep one more engaged in the
    game.
    >
    > Crash
    >

    The OP said that there wasn't anything available to help with quests if you
    got stuck...I just listed a few sites that I thought may help him.

    I haven't had a problem getting info from an NPC - it didn't take long to
    figure out that if you're out of range the NPC will always shrug and to try
    the next one, you will get an answer eventually.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
    news:4jExd.8575$Lo6.5975@fe80.usenetserver.com...

    > On a similar point, did the developers simply miss out most aspects of the
    > game in the manual. I was a lvl15 predator before I knew you could use
    > poision on your blades. The manual didnt mention this at all and it's been
    > in the game from the beginning. I could understand if the feature was
    added
    > in the patch but this wasnt the case.
    >

    You can put poison on your blades? hehehe... and I'm now lvl17 =)
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    the wharf rat wrote:
    > In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
    > Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.
    >
    >
    > Actually, that's not true.
    >

    Yes, yes. My exwife gave me twenty years of living proof. Well actually
    it was all dead, but you know what I mean.

    --
    Get Thunderbird - Reclaim Your Inbox
    http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

    Get Firefox! - The Browser You Can Trust
    http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
    > In article <1103552736.717596.223880@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
    > wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
    > > Basically WoW is more for the newcomer, a simpler game, more solo
    > > oriented.
    >
    > > EQ2 is for the old style MMORPG player. Complex (less so than EQ1 but
    > > still complex), difficult at times, and pretty much requires you to
    > > group.
    >
    > > You can solo in EQ2, but for the most part you will need to be
    > > in a group.
    >
    > I think EQ1 is among the simplest of mmogs that I've ever played. I'm
    > not sure why you'd even think of suggesting that it was complex.

    I'm curious what you base that on. From my perspective (and I've played
    them *all* at least a bit), EQ is without a doubt the most complex of any of
    the MMOGs. A lot of that complexity comes late in the game, though.

    I don't think that is a good thing (at least, not always). There's a
    certain breed of people that enjoy every bit of complexity thrown at them,
    and a larger segment of the population that likes things more structured and
    easier to grasp.

    > I would agree that EQ2 is "harder" than WoW, but not because its more
    > complex, or more advanced, or anything but the raw fact that progression
    > is slower and you need a group to progress at all at a reasonable speed.
    >
    > So you'll get farther in the same amount of time in WoW. But that's more
    > owing to EQ2 being less generous with the XP, particularly on soloable
    > content than anything to do with 'complexity'.
    >
    > > I see them as almost opposite games. Either you like one or the other,
    > > it's just a matter of styles.
    >
    > We can all agree with that. Why not just stick with that instead of
    > trying to elevate EQ2 as being the 'advanced title'? :)

    From my (very short, shorter than any other MMOG game I've ever tried) time
    in EQ2... it's a sad and sorry game. It's like they took EQ, stripped out
    every redeeming quality, including any complexity whatsoever as there is
    nothing "advanced" about the gameplay at all, and gave it a better graphics
    engine. I freely admit that that is simply my opinion. As someone who has
    played EQ from the beginning, and has enjoyed various other games to one
    degree or another, I simply cannot understand why EQ2 has been any sort of
    success. But then, there are people that enjoy being beaten with rubber
    hoses too, and I never understood that either. =)
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:
    > What exactly was changed during the beta to final stage? I'm curious as
    > there seems a lot of very obvious problems that must have been spotted
    > during the beta but were simply ignored by the developers.
    I can't say anything as i did not bother with EQ2. But I bet they did
    not ignore these 'problems' merely just tried to fix the more serious
    bugs in time. :)


    Hagen
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) wrote in news:cq9b0n$9cm$1
    @panix2.panix.com:

    > In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
    > Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
    >>Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.
    >
    > Actually, that's not true.
    >
    >

    Lol - my GF had problems making Kraft Mac and Cheese
    when I met her. Good thing I can cook :)

    --
    Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
    Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
    Lanys T'vyl (Retired)

    Mairelon, 14th Paladin
    Silverhand

    My WoW Mods: http://therealorang.com
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
    > In alt.games.everquest Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>Thank you for mentioning this, as I was beginning to wonder if I was the
    >>only one who had noticed it. I had noticed that of the software I run,
    >>EverQuest 2 does tend to force me to restart the system after use, or
    >>after I use it a few times, as it seems to give my machine a fairly
    >>hefty memory hit.
    >>
    >
    >
    > I have not had this problem at all. I am curious about your
    > configuration. Do you use NVidia drivers by chance? I use an ATI
    > Radeon 9700Pro 128MB DDR video card with the ATI Catalyst drivers and
    > have not noticed any trouble with memory leaks [I am running P4-3.06HT
    > w/1024MB RDRAM1066].
    >
    >

    Yep, I'm running a 128MB GeForce 4, with the most recent drivers. Also
    running a P4, 2.5GHz processor with 512MB RAM.

    >>That said, I doubt it's entirely EverQuest 2's fault. I believe my
    >>machine is suffering a few memory related errors, however EQ2 causes the
    >>worst of them.
    >>
    >
    >
    > The more memory and cpu itensive an application the much more likely you
    > are to uncover memory or cpu problems if they exist.

    I can't be sure they exist but a recent test between my machine, and a
    friend's similar configuration (same ram and graphics card, similar
    processor) showed he was running a few newly released games at
    performance settings (shadows, some reflecting, middlin
    textures...equivalent to EQ2's Performance settings) without any hiccups
    or slowdowns. I, meanwhile, get what in my opinion feels like hardware
    slowdown...memory bottlenecks, with the game stalling for a microsecond
    every few minutes then going back to full strength.

    As an example, Counter-Strike:Source/Half-Life 2 is reporting a 50 -
    100fps range, yet giving the performance of around 10 - 20 fps. EQ2 is
    pretty similar.

    --
    Michael Greenhalgh
    ---
    www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
    www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
    www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
    ---
    MMORPGs
    EverQuest:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

    EverQuest 2:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

    City of Heroes:
    Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
    ---
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Hagen Sienhold wrote:

    > Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
    >>classes and plot progression for each character to be very
    >>disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
    >>EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
    >>however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
    >>progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
    >>improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
    >>the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
    >>to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
    >>diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
    >>middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's harmonious
    >>Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
    >>while they were at it?
    >
    >
    > This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
    > suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
    > I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
    > Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
    > dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
    > proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
    > couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
    > choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
    > same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
    > your concern.
    >
    >

    Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
    having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
    in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
    seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
    spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
    to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
    parts of Antonica to the main city.

    For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
    only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.

    >>Like I said, all this rambling and it hasn't put me off EQ2 at all,
    >>however it hasn't helped make the game more enjoyable than City of
    >>Heroes for me, and hasn't stopped me yearning for the style of gameplay
    >>I have in EQ1. I go back to EQ1 to get that gameplay, but the zones are
    >>quiet and I just keep thinking "I want the graphically rich world and
    >>the busy zones back".
    >
    >
    > Amen to that. I really hope they do merge servers. Especially the ubi
    > servers as they are nearly dead imho.

    It would be nice to have some company playing EQLive...I tend to steer
    clear of it now as it's a fairly lonely game where my character is hunting.


    --
    Michael Greenhalgh
    ---
    www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
    www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
    www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
    ---
    MMORPGs
    EverQuest:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

    EverQuest 2:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

    City of Heroes:
    Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
    ---
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In alt.games.everquest Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > Yep, I'm running a 128MB GeForce 4, with the most recent drivers. Also
    > running a P4, 2.5GHz processor with 512MB RAM.
    >

    I think you really need 1024MB RAM for this game. I suspect certain
    resources are allocated and not often deallocated as you move through
    the game [this is not a leak if the memory is being managed ... i.e. a
    pointer exist somewhere in the program to that memory block]. It has
    been written here many times that the minimum requirements for this game
    really make it unplayable.

    > I can't be sure they exist but a recent test between my machine, and a
    > friend's similar configuration (same ram and graphics card, similar
    > processor) showed he was running a few newly released games at
    > performance settings (shadows, some reflecting, middlin
    > textures...equivalent to EQ2's Performance settings) without any hiccups
    > or slowdowns. I, meanwhile, get what in my opinion feels like hardware
    > slowdown...memory bottlenecks, with the game stalling for a microsecond
    > every few minutes then going back to full strength.
    >
    > As an example, Counter-Strike:Source/Half-Life 2 is reporting a 50 -
    > 100fps range, yet giving the performance of around 10 - 20 fps. EQ2 is
    > pretty similar.
    >

    Half-life 2 is another game that really excels with more memory. I
    played it for awhile with 512MB of memory without issue, as long as I
    stopped lots of the services ahead of time [like virus scanners, fax
    monitors, etc]. I finally sprang for the additional 512MB when I bought
    EQ2. It was quite a bit more expensive for me than it will be for you
    because my machine takes RAMBUS 1066.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
    Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
    > I finally sprang for the additional 512MB when I
    > bought EQ2. It was quite a bit more expensive for me than it will be
    > for you because my machine takes RAMBUS 1066.


    Heh, exactly my situation--and no more RAMBUS for me.

    And then I didn't even play EQ2 beyond the introductory month. It
    absolutely needs that full gig of RAM, too. I can't say the game ever
    played smoothly on my machine, regardless of my settings, but it played
    much, much better.

    EQ2 isn't exactly unplayable at a half-gig of ram, but it's very very slow
    and very very aggravating.

    --
    chainbreaker

    If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
    net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
    > Did I say 'advanced' anywhere?
    > I said EQ2 is more complex, harder, with a steeper learning curve than
    > WoW. The experience MMORPGer could get to max level in Wow in a
    > fraction of the time it'd take in EQ2, and then, there's a high chance
    > they'll get bored of the game sooner (for those people that like to
    > race to max level and then get bored).

    I think what you are doing here is equating "grouping requirements" with
    "complexity". These are not mutually inclusive traits and I believe
    your reference above is way over generalized. There are several quests
    that really are much easier to do as a group in WOW, and by what I have
    read, elite quests mostly require groups to complete. Still, I have
    seen no lack of complexity in WOW when it comes to quests. I have run
    across some pretty complex quests that require several tasks [not just
    killing monsters] to complete.

    > Several dungeons in EQ2 require you to perform complex quests, many of
    > them requiring full groups to complete. This is what I meant by
    > complex. To some people, this is a stupid approach, and thus, are the
    > type of people that like games like WoW and CoH where they can advance
    > at their own pace and not miss much content. To others, this is what
    > makes a MMORPG for them, needing other people, trusting in their
    > capabilities, do your job and hope for the best... these are the type
    > of people that like games like EQ2.
    > A game being complex doesn't make it better or more advanced than
    > another, just makes it attractive to some types of players.
    >

    See my comment above about Wow and complexity as you define it. It
    exists in Wow as well. Perhaps the difference between Wow and EQ2 in
    this respect is how much of this is required. By what I have read,
    higher levels in EQ2 are often mostly blocked from advancement without
    group based quests. SOE has apparently taken note of this and may be
    changing it. I am curious as to how this will manifest.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
    Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:52:35 +0100, Hagen Sienhold wrote:

    >Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:

    >> 5. Map - Awful! Why cant you see what direction you are facing?

    >The first one was heavily discussed in beta and I'm glad they did *not*
    >put an arrow on that map.

    I think I read in the fix list for the current beta that such an arrow is on
    its way, and I don't see what harm it could do?
    --
    Henrik Dissing
    Vork - Dwarf Warrior on Highkeep
    Member of Highkeep Ring

    (e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk)
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <1103644786.019556.152730@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
    wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
    > Did I say 'advanced' anywhere?

    Advanced is a synomym for complex, and I think is an appropriate one
    considering your apparent intended meaning.

    > I said EQ2 is more complex,

    And I said it isn't. Its a pretty simple game, and very much on par with
    WoW.

    > harder,

    Again I disagree. I think its -slower-. But not harder. Getting to max
    level in EQ2 is a longer road than it is in WoW... but its not a harder
    one.

    > with a steeper learning curve than
    > WoW.

    To which I alluded WoW perhaps deserves props for writing a better more
    intuitive UI.

    > The experience MMORPGer could get to max level in Wow in a
    > fraction of the time it'd take in EQ2,

    So? The same is true of an inexperienced MMORPGer. It also says nothing
    about complexity or difficulty... just reinforces that progress in EQ2
    is slow as molasses by comparison. But a newbie might prefer that and an
    experienced player might not... ie there is no reason to suggest that
    WoW is more suited to newbies than EQ2 based on the fact that EQ2 takes
    longer to play.

    > and then, there's a high chance
    > they'll get bored of the game sooner (for those people that like to
    > race to max level and then get bored).

    For people that like to race to max level and get bored this will happen
    in any game. Newbies and Experienced MMORPGers alike.

    > Several dungeons in EQ2 require you to perform complex quests, many of
    > them requiring full groups to complete. This is what I meant by
    > complex.

    Ah... well. Then your use of the word "complex" is completely
    inappropriate. There is nothign more complicated about it. Its merely a
    different style of play. I'll grant that the overhead of finding a group
    and the need to 'make friends' in order to progress in EQ2 may be
    daunting to solo types... but that doesn't make the game harder or more
    complicated, it just underscores that EQ2 doesn't support solo
    playstyles very well.

    > To some people, this is a stupid approach, and thus, are the
    > type of people that like games like WoW and CoH where they can advance
    > at their own pace and not miss much content. To others, this is what
    > makes a MMORPG for them, needing other people, trusting in their
    > capabilities, do your job and hope for the best... these are the type
    > of people that like games like EQ2.

    OK. But that's just saying that different play styles will prefer
    different games. And I already agreed with that. What I disagree with
    your assertion that EQ2 is more complex than WoW, and that EQ2 is aimed
    at MMOG vets while WoW is aimed at newbies.

    > A game being complex doesn't make it better or more advanced than
    > another, just makes it attractive to some types of players.

    When you divided the players into the groups "newbies" and "experienced
    MMORPGers" based on comparative complexity, then the conclusion that you
    think EQ2 is more advanced is inescapable.


    And ultimately its silly, because EQ2 really isn't more complicated.

    At most its somewhat more restrictive because you practically *have* to
    group to *anywhere*. But that doesn't make it more complicated nor more
    difficult a game.

    >
    > Just for the record, City of Heroes could be considered one of the
    > simpler games out there (no inventory, no loot, no crafting, etc) yet
    > it's the most enjoyable MMORPG I've ever played.

    At least you recognize there is no inherent connection between
    complexity and fun. (Although some people do delight in the surfeit of
    details in a complex system...)

    :)
  39. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1c320f2817061708989946@shawnews>,
    42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
    >Advanced is a synomym for complex

    That's not necessarily true. For instance, an overhead
    cam engine is more advanced than a flathead, but far less complex.
  40. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <cq9tfs$6l4$1@panix2.panix.com>, wrat@panix.com says...
    > In article <MPG.1c320f2817061708989946@shawnews>,
    > 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
    > >Advanced is a synomym for complex
    >
    > That's not necessarily true.

    Its not necessarily untrue either though. Few synonyms are completely
    interchangeable. There are nearly always subtle differences in nuance of
    meaning. Advancedment and Complexity usually flow in the same
    direction... but I'll concede: not always.

    > For instance, an overhead
    > cam engine is more advanced than a flathead, but far less complex.

    No argument.

    I'll happily concede that sometimes advancedment makes things simpler.

    But that's not usually case, and more often not the simplicty achieved
    is actually result of hiding something even more complex. :)

    A new car is simpler to operate than an old one. But it is both vastly
    more complex and advanced under the hood.

    This applies to EQ2/WoW they are both more complicated games than EQ1.
    And they are both easier to use.
  41. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Of the 250 odd quests I've either completed or am in the process of doing,
    I've only done external research on about 5 of them.
    I've only started I think two quests after reading about them externally.
    Yep, I've had no trouble both in finding quests or completing them at all as
    most of them are reasonably straight forward.

    I am honestly suprised at how many people say they hate the EQ2 quest system
    for precisely the reason you indicate. Yes the quest system has a couple of
    issues, and some quests are broken ... but not many, and almost none of the
    quests have the kind of difficulties you are alluding to.
  42. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Crash86" <crash86@shotmail.com> writes:

    > <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote:
    > > The difference is that in the second case, you can wait with checking
    > > the exact details until you're really stuck, while in the first you
    > > know from the beginning. For me, this takes away some of the fun of
    > > exploring, which is why I've pretty much never used any third-party
    > > sites for EQ2 quests, except for ones that are bugged. An example is
    > > Cleansing the Corruption in Stormhold, which requires me to kill two
    > > defiled squalls, but the squalls are bugged and seem to get stuck
    > > where they can't be reached, which I didn't know until I checked it
    > > outside the game. Maybe later on I'll need to, but I hope not.
    >
    > That would be great if that's the way it worked. Unfortunately, it doesn't
    > work that way. Folks research encounters before they even start them. In
    > fact, it can be said that such research is required reading for many
    > encounters.

    Other people may not do it that way, but _I_ do. EQ2 quests aren't as
    vague as EQ quests. The fact that some, maybe most, don't want to
    play that way doesn't mean it's an invalid design, just one that
    doesn't work for everyone.


    > In WoW, I've never started a quest on purpose ... not once. Every quest
    > I've done has been started by the same method, which goes something like
    > this: "Hey, there's a NPC with a yellow exclamation point over his head.
    > Let's see what he's handing out." Walk over to NPC, click on them, get
    > info, accept quest. I've never researched any quests in WoW, nor do I
    > intend to.

    And pretty much the same holds true in EQ2 for me, of the 240ish
    quests I've completed maybe five or ten I have done any out of game
    research on, often because they've been broken in some way (which I
    can certainly believe WoW does better, SOE really need to fix up their
    QA process).


    > I know quite a few people who won't play EQL (or EQ2) without having a
    > second box right next to them to be used for hitting the spoiler sites.

    In the case of EQ2, that's either because they're used to it from
    other games, or they just aren't interested in solving them on their
    own. I like doing it on my own, with sometimes a bit of help from
    someone in game, and I like there being a bit of legwork involved.


    > Mind you, with Blizzard's system I still get the fun of exploring .... in
    > fact, that's one of the things I'm enjoying most about WoW. It's a new
    > world, and I don't know precisely what's around that next corner. I'm
    > focused, I'm having fun, and I don't want to have to leave that to go to a
    > third party site to find out the precise loc of the particular NPC in all of
    > some huge zone (like Antonica) I need to talk to to move the quest along.

    I've never had to do that in EQ2, it just isn't as necessary as you
    seem to think it is.


    > To each their own.

    I quite agree, some people will prefer WoW, some EQ2, some EQ, etc.
    That's not a bad thing.

    Not that I know anything about WoW quests, really, as I've only done
    something like the first four quests I found in night elf land. They
    may have much the same appeal as EQ2 quests to me, for all I know.

    --
    Vidirix, 24th level paladin of Qeynos on Runnyeye with ~240 quests finished
  43. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest, alt.games.everquest2, alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Advanced isn't a synonym for complex!
    Is Apple's Ipod less advanced than the other MP3 players out there
    because it's simpler to use? Quite the contrary!
    Is Diablo less advanced than Wizardry 1?
    Complex doesn't mean better.
  44. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
    > <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote:
    > [...] Folks research encounters before they even start them. In
    > fact, it can be said that such research is required reading for many
    > encounters.
    I'd say this is absolutely untrue and takes quite a bit fun out of any
    encounter. I did not realize this until I chatted with friends from my
    old guild and they told me how the enjoyed our tries at Shei Vinitras
    then. I was raidleader and surely I did research everything I could. But
    since we only had about 25-30 people everytime we could not burn him
    down like the bigger guilds did. And we really had a hard time learning
    the script(the 4 adds at the beginning of the script gave us headache).

    But my point is even though I DID think they get tired of wipe after
    wipe I often was asked to schedule another Shei raid just for the fun of
    learning this encounter. So I believe raiding would be much more fun
    when people ignore these spoilers and start working on their own
    strategy as spoilers really aren't necessary.


    Hagen
  45. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    > Hagen Sienhold wrote:

    >> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
    >>>classes and plot progression for each character to be very
    >>>disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
    >>>EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
    >>>however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
    >>>progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
    >>>improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
    >>>the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
    >>>to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
    >>>diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
    >>>middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's harmonious
    >>>Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
    >>>while they were at it?
    >>
    >>
    >> This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
    >> suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
    >> I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
    >> Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
    >> dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
    >> proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
    >> couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
    >> choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
    >> same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
    >> your concern.
    >>
    >>

    > Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
    > having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
    > in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
    > seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
    > spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
    > to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
    > parts of Antonica to the main city.

    But this might be explained a bit by the storyline. There has not been a
    choice but to concentrate around the major cities. But atleast the
    qeynos people did retain or remade some of the environment they came
    from. Freeport suburbs seem to be designed exlusively by ogres. :/

    > For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
    > only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.

    If they wouldn't allow people to freely choose which suburb to live in
    these places would be more different from each other I guess.


    Hagen
  46. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Henrik Dissing <sorry@drowned.in.spam.invalid> wrote:
    > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:52:35 +0100, Hagen Sienhold wrote:

    >>Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:

    >>> 5. Map - Awful! Why cant you see what direction you are facing?

    >>The first one was heavily discussed in beta and I'm glad they did *not*
    >>put an arrow on that map.

    > I think I read in the fix list for the current beta that such an arrow is on
    > its way, and I don't see what harm it could do?
    Of course it does no harm. But the word that has been beaten to death
    in the beta was immersion. ;)

    And I can't argue against the point that it will hamper said immersion.
    After all when I run in EQ1 using the map I don't even pay attention to
    my surroundings. I just open the map and steer after the nice arrow
    there.

    It's nice to have a map - won't argue here. But it would be even
    better to use them like a real map. Just find your spot on it
    and take the compass to navigate and occasionally check back with your
    map.


    Hagen
  47. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Hagen Sienhold" <durragon@web.de> wrote in message
    news:kedbqc.v41.ln@arellarti.fqdn.th-h.de...
    > Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    > > Hagen Sienhold wrote:
    >
    > >> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
    > >>>classes and plot progression for each character to be very
    > >>>disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
    > >>>EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
    > >>>however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
    > >>>progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
    > >>>improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
    > >>>the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
    > >>>to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
    > >>>diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
    > >>>middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's
    harmonious
    > >>>Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
    > >>>while they were at it?
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
    > >> suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
    > >> I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
    > >> Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
    > >> dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
    > >> proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
    > >> couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
    > >> choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
    > >> same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
    > >> your concern.
    > >>
    > >>
    >
    > > Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
    > > having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
    > > in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
    > > seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
    > > spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
    > > to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
    > > parts of Antonica to the main city.
    >
    > But this might be explained a bit by the storyline. There has not been a
    > choice but to concentrate around the major cities. But atleast the
    > qeynos people did retain or remade some of the environment they came
    > from. Freeport suburbs seem to be designed exlusively by ogres. :/
    >
    > > For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
    > > only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.
    >
    > If they wouldn't allow people to freely choose which suburb to live in
    > these places would be more different from each other I guess.
    >
    >
    > Hagen

    It does fit in with the lore of the game that Freeport would allow less
    individuality than qeynos. I think Lucan't trying to make himself a go, and
    encouraging the vices in people like intolerance, self-pity, bigotry is part
    of what it's all about. I think his tower floats on the fire produced by the
    consumption of his cities' souls.

    In Qeynos, as a barbarian sharing an area with dwarves, i find most of the
    area is to my scale, but there are places where i have to stoop most
    uncomfortably. There's friction and griping (we miss the snow! Qeynos never
    gets cold enough...) but there's a determination to get along and make the
    most of things.

    The frogloks miss their home, and tell you as much, and there's a quest to
    try and help them, but the elves they share with allow frogloks to wade in
    the fountains, and that's a sacrifice for them to do, more than it would be
    for a human. Kerrans miss their plains but at least they have their fish and
    a greater interaction with other races than they ever knew before. Perhaps
    contact with the vah shir resulted in this race, perhaps they are the
    children of both kinds.

    I think they did great things with the lore of eq2, as well as the
    characterisation of the npc's, and the contrast between the two
    philosophies. Freeport if hyper-capitilist, alsmost satanic, polluted and
    dull. Qeynos strives to find a balance between trees and factories, and it's
    parks and open theatre exist because of the generosity of it's people... it
    has the best parts of a religion like christianity or buddhism, or socialism
    if you like. they are both ideals, unrealistic true, but i think there's a
    nice philosophy lurking behind this game.

    Ralph, Crusader for Qeynos, 15th Season.
  48. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <1103724276.502813.166970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
    wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
    > Advanced isn't a synonym for complex!


    > Is Apple's Ipod less advanced than the other MP3 players out there
    > because it's simpler to use? Quite the contrary!

    You substituted 'simpler to use' for just 'simpler'.

    Apple's ipod is not simple. Its easy to use. But in order to do what it
    does its actually a more complicated and elaborate device/software than
    other more cumbersome units.

    > Complex doesn't mean better.

    Quite right.
  49. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Shadow <kitchen@fis.org.nz> wrote:
    > "Hagen Sienhold" <durragon@web.de> wrote in message
    >> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
    >> > Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
    >> > having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
    >> > in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
    >> > seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
    >> > spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
    >> > to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
    >> > parts of Antonica to the main city.
    >>
    >> But this might be explained a bit by the storyline. There has not been a
    >> choice but to concentrate around the major cities. But atleast the
    >> qeynos people did retain or remade some of the environment they came
    >> from. Freeport suburbs seem to be designed exlusively by ogres. :/
    >>
    >> > For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
    >> > only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.
    >>
    >> If they wouldn't allow people to freely choose which suburb to live in
    >> these places would be more different from each other I guess.

    > It does fit in with the lore of the game that Freeport would allow less
    > individuality than qeynos. I think Lucan't trying to make himself a go, and
    > encouraging the vices in people like intolerance, self-pity, bigotry is part
    > of what it's all about. I think his tower floats on the fire produced by the
    > consumption of his cities' souls.

    Well it should! But for my dark elf I would rather burn the whole city
    down then to live in a place like that. I just doubt that dark elves
    would accomodate to such a low place.

    Oh, surely there are some dreamer npcs who talk of the grand past of the
    dark elven race. I'm afraid that I can't make myself clearer but it just
    does not fit the picture I have of the dark elves.


    > In Qeynos, as a barbarian sharing an area with dwarves, i find most of the
    > area is to my scale, but there are places where i have to stoop most
    > uncomfortably. There's friction and griping (we miss the snow! Qeynos never
    > gets cold enough...) but there's a determination to get along and make the
    > most of things.

    > The frogloks miss their home, and tell you as much, and there's a quest to
    > try and help them, but the elves they share with allow frogloks to wade in
    > the fountains, and that's a sacrifice for them to do, more than it would be
    > for a human. Kerrans miss their plains but at least they have their fish and
    > a greater interaction with other races than they ever knew before. Perhaps
    > contact with the vah shir resulted in this race, perhaps they are the
    > children of both kinds.

    On the other hand Qeynos should work with those compromises. After all
    this is the *good* city! :)

    But my gripe wasn't with Qeynos.

    > I think they did great things with the lore of eq2, as well as the
    > characterisation of the npc's, and the contrast between the two
    > philosophies. Freeport if hyper-capitilist, alsmost satanic, polluted and
    > dull. Qeynos strives to find a balance between trees and factories, and it's
    > parks and open theatre exist because of the generosity of it's people... it
    > has the best parts of a religion like christianity or buddhism, or socialism
    > if you like. they are both ideals, unrealistic true, but i think there's a
    > nice philosophy lurking behind this game.

    I think they made it simple. Just the good side against the bad side. No
    shades inbetween. :/


    Hagen
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