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OK, THG -- If you hate Intel so much...

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 18, 2001 9:10:07 PM

We find out in the latest Intel 845D article here that it is not, indeed, the fastest or most glamorously decorated chipset on the market.

So what? And, what did you expect?

I've used Intel, AMD and Cyrix chips and Intel, VIA, SiS and other various chipsets. Of all of these, the Intel/Intel combos are the ONLY boards that are still in use today. My 486SX/25 still runs, as does my 486DX2/66. My Cyrix/VIA 200+ is dead. The AMD 386 my dad bought YEARS ago is dead. And my AMD-loving friend has gone through more motherboards than girlfriends.

The simple matter of fact is, I, like a lot of people, am not quite so concerned with which board offers +1 to 3 fps over some other board, and which has ATA133 (I use SCSI, which has been at 160 for quite some time now -- and even that is a moot point until you start stacking drives in striped RAID arrays). To me, a board that boots flawlessly the first, and every single time afterwards, with no driver issues, no compatibility problems, little heat and power issues, and no concerns with which PCI card is in which slot will take the cake ANY day over which board is the hottest thing on the market.

Intel isn't perfect, as noted by all the problems with the P4 when it first arrived. But they learned, got their #$^@ together and made it a stable, kick-ass CPU that could crunch numbers quickly, without heating your entire house or catching on fire should the CPU fan fall off. Then there's the chipset issues... where they're "stupid" for not releasing a DDR chipset before. Hey, you guys whined about it enough that they did what they could, when they could. What were they supposed to do, break the licensing agreements and get themselves sued? Seems to me that Rambus might not have been such a doomed innovation anyway, since it's now the benchmark to beat with DDR coming only marginally close. But then.. no matter what they do, they're still the bad guys, right? Not that Rambus deserved much sympathy -- afterall, they were kind of shady.

Back to the point... maybe your opinions differ, and you've definitely the right to feel that way. But every time Intel comes out with some improvement, you belittle it. If they make a mistake, you pound them mercilessly into the ground for years. I'm surprised still that you've even now let them live down the Pentium divide error. Now, when AMD eeks by with a half-second improvement over the fastest Intel CPU, you pass out party hats and noisemakers, and AMDs little quirks (like the P-rating) are merely cute and understandable. So if you insist on sneering at Intel and joining the little Pro-Indie elitist clubs, then why don't you just do us all a favor and ignore Intel completely? You're hardly unbiased and useful with the reviews, so just shut up and write your We Love AMD propoganda already.

One last thing -- you mention MSI as the only board that clocks their 100MHz FSB at exactly 100MHz, and the rest are "cheating" by upping the clock a bit. Um -- how exactly is tweaking the board classified as "cheating"? I thought overclocking was a GOOD thing, and the "mine is faster than yours" mentality that this site sponsors seems to make it so that any improvement would be welcomed... It doesn't quite make sense. Make a new chipset that can rush electrons a bit quicker and that's good; just up the clock a tad and that's bad. Okay, whatever guys..

Have an underground anti-corporate Xmas, folks...
-SN :p 

More about : thg hate intel

December 18, 2001 9:39:09 PM

Please slink back to the CPU section. Points are valid I'm sure (I've always used Intel myself, happily, but would try AMD for the practice), but this kind of post is asking for an argument.

I wish you lot would agree to differ.

<b><font color=blue>~scribble~</font color=blue></b> :wink: <A HREF="http://www.ud.com/home.htm" target="_new">Help cure cancer.</A>
December 18, 2001 9:40:53 PM

Quote:
maybe your opinions differ, and you've definitely the right to feel that way. But every time Intel comes out with some improvement, you belittle it. If they make a mistake, you pound them mercilessly into the ground for years.


I think you are confusing me with Dr. Thomas Pabst and his employees. Please do not insult hundreds of people you do not know, for no reason. If you have a problem with a review on this site, feel free to email the person who wrote it.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
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December 18, 2001 9:43:20 PM

Quote:
To me, a board that boots flawlessly the first, and every single time afterwards, with no driver issues, no compatibility problems, little heat and power issues, and no concerns with which PCI card is in which slot will take the cake ANY day over which board is the hottest thing on the market.

Wow sounds a lot like my Epox 8K7A+. I put all my stuff in and it worked flawlessly the first time. Even with 150 FSB it still worked without a hitch. I never have heat issues (always around 45 degrees Celsius) and I can't remember the last time I got a blue screen of death except when I removed a CD before I should have.
I guess its a good thing intel chipsets work when you put shitty parts in them, I prefer to use quality parts so I'm able to use what ever chipset tickles my arse......having my 8K7A+ with AMD761 chipset being so stable I'm hessitant to upgrade to the Abit KR7A-RAID with Via KT266a that I have sitting near by.

Welcome to the end of your life Mr. CPU. Don't worry I promise its going to hurt.
December 18, 2001 10:00:44 PM

Quote:
I can't remember the last time I got a blue screen of death except when I removed a CD before I should have.


See, if you didn't use Win98, you wouldn't have that problem. Time to move to W2k/XP :) 

BTW, if you don't want that KR7a-RAID, I'll take it off your hands.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 19, 2001 4:32:57 AM

so winxp doesnt care if you remove the cd?
crazy....

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-
December 19, 2001 6:47:44 PM

The NT/W2k/XP kernel is much more stable, and won't BSOD on you. It'll give you a read error (obviously, since it can't read CDs from 3 feet away :) , but it won't crash.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 20, 2001 9:38:00 AM

Quote:
I can't remember the last time I got a blue screen of death except when I removed a CD before I should have

It happened to me sometimes, but it's not the infamous <b>Blue-screen-of-death</b> (BSOD). It simply asked if the CD still in CD-ROM. By pressing <b>Escape</b> key to answer NO, I went back to normal Windows.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 20, 2001 11:13:46 PM

Apparently most of you disagree, so after this, I will let it lie.

My purpose for this message wasn't to start a flame war (re: camieabz) but to offer the chance for any of us here who felt the Intel hostility a little childish to offer a such sentiments to THG. Hence, I DO agree to differ (have no problem with AMD, just prefer the other personally), and find religious wars on the topic absurd.

As for FatBurger, I wasn't talking to you, or any of the other forum members specifically. Otherwise, your name would have been in the subject. Like I said.. a petition of sorts. Obviously I'm one of the few who felt this way.

Lastly, it's not so much a stability issue because of shitty hardware (unless you count Adaptec, 3Com, 3dfx, USR, Creative, etc) as shitty hardware. In the case of the 3dfx, old maybe, but not shitty. My WinME (!) machine runs stable for weeks at a time without a reboot, until the resources drop to levels which cause the system to run sluggish, or some other thing...

As for Win2K/XP (finally) being smart enough to alert you rather than crash the system when you remove a CD, try a REAL OS like BeOS, which was smart enough to simply unmount the volume and carry on. ;-) (Ok.. now that would be a flamewar, so enough on OS selection...) And yes, I know, Be Inc. is dead.

Sorry if I offended anyone.
-SN.
December 20, 2001 11:53:18 PM

To all concerned:

I've used W98SE for 3 years, and probably had as many BSODs as I have thumbs. Must be user error.

:smile: here fishy, fishy. :smile:

<b><font color=blue>~scribble~</font color=blue></b> :wink: <A HREF="http://www.ud.com/home.htm" target="_new">Help cure cancer.</A>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 21, 2001 1:44:57 AM

well the truth is Intel solutions haven't been equivocally stable with regards to its current competition since the BX chipset and they probably won't again. Yes AMD solutions require and were the first desktop solution to be so picky in terms of ps, well so does new P4 systems now. But many of VIA, AMD, and SIS chipset solutions are just as stable for both AMD and Intel cpus today. And the truth still remains that Intel systems are the same if not still more in cost while providing no additional performance value (and there is no stability factor to sell) to the consumer. And Intel's new chipset .. just a remade I845 (which does not ride the waves of stability success) is simply their desire to have a piece of that DDR chipset market that they now realize is going to eat into RDRAM boards. Tack an Intel name on it and it'll undoubtedly draw a fair share of that market regardless even if benchmarks continue to show it underperforms other P4 DDR solutions. This is good business.. but it doesn't mean much to the consumer.. and that is definitely one of Tom's points.


***check the jumpers 1st then check em again***
December 21, 2001 2:36:19 AM

whenever i have a blue screen of death i just format the hard drive....clears it up good.

"Hear me now, listen to me later".
December 21, 2001 4:54:06 AM

oh, i was thinking wrong...
you get a read error in win98..
my computer doesnt crash...it just errors..
if i hit ESC, then it goes on like normal.
eh....
not necessarily a blue screen of death.
but an annoyance...but also a lesson, wait until the computer is done with the cd, and then you wont get an error...hehe...

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 21, 2001 6:18:17 AM

I have an AMD system, and while I like it, I don't like the weird lockups and quirkiness that I didn't have to deal with when I was using Intel/BX system.



<i>The more you brag about your CPU, the more we realize how small you are in other areas.</i>
December 21, 2001 4:23:47 PM

Right, that's what I'm talking about. Not really a crash, but sometimes it doesn't let you get back to Windows right away. Very annoying.

And no juin, I've never had a BSOD with XP. Been running it for about a month on an Abit KT7a-RAID.


SirNickity, my point was merely that you put "THG - If you hate Intel so much...", which seems to be addressed to all of us in the forums. If you were addressing your post to the reviewers here at THG, then you probably would be better off emailing them directly.
For taking a petition, a subject like "Who dislikes Intel chipsets" would probably have worked better.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
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