Pay or not for the software u use at home?

Over the last weeks I met on THGC forums different opinions on using pirateed software. Some seem to find this outrageous. Others seem to enjoy it, especially MS software .

In my pc at home I have only pirateed software. IMO, as long as u don't use it to make money, why pay?
At work I have only legally purchased software and so should have every business, small or big.

Please post your opinion on this.

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

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I buy my software lately, however I define my policy by the keyword MY, here.
My brother is free to download games or whatever, but when it comes to me to do it myself, I go buy it. I decided to do this last year, and stopped getting illegal software. I feel I am doing good for whoever worked hard on it.

However my limits are as follows:
-I still get MP3s, as I am not to purchase a CD with only one song I want to listen to. Many others reasons are included, but I am more than ready to use a pay for play service online. That way even old retired artists could generate some cash.
-I will always get ROMs. Let us face it, there is simply little hope to find an SNES game around anymore, let alone to just try it and enjoy it, when ordering it after you finally found it, could take weeks. They are supposed to be legal by now, yet Nintendo insists. In fact they are trying to remove the fun out of their own consoles, since people can practically no longer find their old consoles' games in shops.
-I am not to pay an insane amount over editing software. Come college next year, we will work on Photoshop and Cinema 4D, amongst many other rendering software. I am most definitly not paying over 100$ for any software, especially these which cost over 500$. I don't have that kind of money, nor do I intend to work to get it, I have academics above all to take care of. If they have student prices below 100$, maybe I'd think about it.

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:

Reply to eden

i see where you are comming from. but small companys have less choice over what os they use since they can not afford to have fulltime management of the system and that make linux a very daunting option to them. since they are VERY likely to chose MS over linux (would any one use mac for normal office use??) they will also be likly use pirate copys of the software as, for example, they have 10 computers networked + a server with the database on they are looking at in the reagon of £1500. this is out the price range of many small companys for IT equipment. if MS could charge a sensable price for the os then it would be fine for companys and homes to buy it alike. if it was £50, like it was for win 95, i would gladly pay for the software. but they over charge and so i dont pay.

as for big business', screw em for every penny cos they will do it to you

Now thats what I want to know!

Reply to Secretninja

In my pc at home I have only pirateed software. IMO, as long as u don't use it to make money, why pay?
At work I have only legally purchased software and so should have every business, small or big.

So, then you believe it is OK for individuals to steal, but business (large or small) should be completely honest.

What makes a business so different then you? Because the business has more money to spend? How can this possibly make you feel justified about stealing?

What you are saying is that "Stealing is OK. How else can poor people get what they want?". This was a very disturbing thought. If you cannot afford a product, you do without it. If you have limited funds, you purchase only what you NEED, not what you WANT.

Why don't you go to Sears and steal a winter jacket? You are not using it to make money, so why pay? Why don't you start mugging wealthy people? After all, they have more money to replace what you have stolen from them.

Stealing, in any form (piracy) is wrong. It deprives the company that makes the software of rightful sales, which is lost revenue. Take a look at the declining PC games market. It is much smaller then it was 3 years ago. It's not the consoles that have done this, but piracy. It is much harder to copy DVD based games then the CD based games on the PC. So manufacturers place more importance on the consoles.

I know what your response will be. "I would not have bought this anyway, so if I copy it, the company selling it has not lost anything". If you truely believe this, then perhaps one day you will have your own business. You will feel differently. How many copies of software do you exchange with friends, and they with their friends, and so on? Why should anyone pay for anything? The end result will be fewer products, as is evident by the state of the PC gaming industry today.

Why should companies invest money to produce a product that no one will pay for?

If you think its OK to use pirated software as long as you don't make money on it, why not contact the companies who's software you've pirated, and let them know. Please, tell us their reaction.

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

i normaly pay for games.

Now thats what I want to know!

Reply to Secretninja

<<What makes a business so different then you? Because the business has more money to spend? How can this possibly make you feel justified about stealing?>>

I said I make no money using them. If I use it for making money, for ex. Corel Draw 11, I buy it, and at a price of about 500$.

<<Why don't you go to Sears and steal a winter jacket? You are not using it to make money, so why pay?>>

For a jacket the producer uses material and stuff for doing it and there is a cost for every piece.Software companies spent alot of money for development, I give u that, but they also charge much more for the product for quick cover of the expenses. For a jachet u pay the material, the labor expence and the producer profit but usually at a fair price.

The software developers that seem to understand the difference between home and business usage of computers are for ex. the Linux developers. U use it at home, it's free, at work u have to pay to use it.

But of course, in the end everybody has the right to an opinion I respect that.

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

And BTW. Show 1 (one) pc user that doesn't listen to mp3's. (if the pc can play them, of course lol).This is also piracy, and u take the profit from the singer, the producer and so on.
If software companies would charge different for home use I would be the first to buy. But I ain't gonna spent for about 4000$ for Fluke Network Inspector just so that I learn how to use it and fool with it at home, just to give an example.

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

Quote :

In my pc at home I have only pirateed software. IMO, as long as u don't use it to
make money, why pay?

Yeah right...you sound like a man of logic...lol.

No really, I am with JLBIGGUY on this one, at least my moral side is.
I read an interview with a 'big' 3D artist awhile ago, he reasoned that a
student never would afford to buy applications like Photoshop, 3D Studio etc.
Only thing to do is to get an illegal copy, learn the program, get
a wellpaid 3D/Graphic job and then buy it (In short).

I know it´s an evil circle, people argue programs are to expensive and then
get a pirated version whilst the companies in turn has to raise the price to fill
the 'void' caused by non paying users...

When it comes to companies like Microsoft I gladly take a pirated copy though, I´ll do
that with a big smile on my face.
My hope is that more and more people come to their senses and stop buying
software from MS, forcing them to re think and scratch a zero on the price tag.

I have this great plan of how to bring MS down on it´s knees.
I can´t do it myself, but with the help of a couple of million other users we might
pull it off.

'The bring Microsoft down to it´s knees formula'
1/
Whenever you are going to upgrade or change your MS-OS, get an illegal copy, don´t buy it.

2/
If enough of people do this MS has to raise the price of their product to fill the gap
in lost customers.
By now Windows would cost you approximately twice as much as the original price.

3/Repeat step 1
MS is starting to sweat.
"How are we going to combat the continued losses in our budget!?"
"I know!...raise the price further!"
Ok, my guess is that a copy of Windows would cost you around 4 times the original price by now.

4 to 100/Repeat step 1
A couple of years later a brand new copy of Windows will cost the customer around $399.999.99
No one will shell out such outrageous amount of money for any software, it would be wrong
to say that MS is a profitable company at this state.

5/Repeat step 1 just for the fun of it (touche)
Microsoft cease to exist...yay.
What goes around comes around.

Hmmm...maybe not :tongue:

My sig, not yours

Reply to Jake75

I strongly advice everybody to use pirated software for home use, especially MSsoftware. There's nothing but good freewares can stop use of software at home. Think about Lame MP3, it killed hacked Fraunhofer IIS Codec. Who wants to bother with Fraunhofer IIS MP3 Codec now?

Only people who have so much money that they are having trouble deciding where to spend it, they should buy softwares (including MS software) for home use.

Why I will pay for $500 for Photoshop, since I will use it to edit only a few pics? With this money I can build a PC.

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=26708#26708" target="_new"> Go to my CPU Vendor Poll </A>

Reply to Spitfire_x86

Eden, you can't pick and chose like that. It doesn't make any difference if you steal the os or if you steal mp3's. Now before I go any further let me say that I own legitimate software and I also have pirated versions. I have the pirated versions so I can test it. I'm sick and tired of paying 50 or 60 for a game and then not liking it. The demo's are even cool, but when you get the real game it blows goat nutz. So I just get a pirated copy. If I like it I buy it. If not I just delete it and get another one. I think companys should also give you a fully working demo for free that expires after a month or three. That way if people like the product they'll be more likely to purchase it. Of course this will never happen because they count on you to not like the game and go and buy another. The music industry only puts one or two good songs on a cd so you'll have to spend more money buying more cd's. If the corporations employ unethical tactics then they shouldn't get mad when we do. I say steal it, try it, like it, buy it.

If you're an ugly bastard click <A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"> here</A> to feel better about yourself.

Reply to Yahiko81

So you are saying that stealing services vs. material items is OK. After all, once written, it costs a company nothing to package and distribute. But stealing a jacket is immoral, stealing software is not. There is a connection here that you are not making.

Why should you pay for it if you only need it now and then? Because if you NEED a product badly enought to use (at any frequency) you should pay for it. If you cannot afford it, do not use it. Or, get a better job, get a second job, so that you can afford to buy the things you want rather then steal them.

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

I respect your point of view, but you're being an idealist. It's not really practical for many many people. You're coming from the point of view that the software and hardware industry do nothing that is not in your best interest. That's not true.

Case in point:

You go buy a game. The reviews were good and the demo was good. The game sucks. You can't return it. Say bye to $30-$50.

Alternatively, you buy a game, it rocks, but your system runs the game horribly or not at all. Even though the min requirements are met, it's fairly obvious that the game is not enjoyable without a better computer.

You buy WinME. It costs you a pretty penny. The OS is garbage though and 3 of your hardware components will not work with the OS. You shelve the OS after 2 weeks. You end up buying WinXP a year later. Your total investment is in the hundreds of dollars.

You buy Norton System works. 3 months later you update your system to WinXP and Norton will not work. They expect you to buy a new version of Norton.

You buy a CD-RW drive. When WinXP is released it's not supported. You end up having to buy 3rd party software to get it to work. The same goes for your web camera. Your printer and modem have no software available to them at all even though they're relatively new.


<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Forum Assassin</A>

Reply to dhlucke

LOL. I'm starting to like you more and more JLBGGUY.
I didn't bring the moral aspect in here. Of course, it's imoral to steal ANYTHING. But don't u think that the prices of most of the sofware are imoral? But since u are so into beeing moral and stuff, ask yourself this question: The mp3 you are probably listening to right now, is it legal? So u are measuring the morality? Having an mp3 is moral getting piratated software is imoral? Where do u draw a line?

Also, I intended this thread to be about sofware without games, because games have no commercial value to a business (can't use it to make money) and are just for fun (alot of it!!!)

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

I don't see what your response has to do with the justification of stealing products or services, rather then buying them.

With the speed that the computer industry changes, new operating systems, new hardware technology, new software technology, it is bound to happen that products become obsolete weeks after you purchase them. But the choice is yours: don't upgrade to the next OS if it means your peripherals won't work. If you must upgrade, then be willing to pay the price. If you can't pay the price, steal new peripherals that will work? I am being a bit sarcastic, but if you cannot afford a product, do without.

A game may rock, but I can't play it on my PC without upgrading. Whose fault is that? Knowing that I do not have enough PC, I should not have bought it in the first place. Minimum hardware specs are posted on each product.

But again, what does this have to do with stealing?

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

Be fair. The minimum specs printed on the game packaging are a joke.

:eek: Remember it's only a crime if you're caught :eek:

Reply to WingDing

<A HREF="http://www.battlemaniacs.net/games/bf/requirements.asp" target="_new">http://www.battlemaniacs.net/games/bf/requirements.asp</A>

These are the requirements for BF1942. They are complete and utter B.S. I have beyond the recommended requirements and the game still runs like crap. It's really a waste of money in my opinion unless you're running an uber machine WAY beyond the recommended requirments.

Look at the minimum requirements. Anyone who bought the game running under those conditions got ripped off.


<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Forum Assassin</A>

Reply to dhlucke

"But don't u think that the prices of most of the sofware are imoral?"

Prices are not immoral. Either you can afford to purchase a product, or you cannot. It becomes immoral when you steal it.

Being a software developer myself (how I earn my living), I may create a software application for one customer and sell it for $10,000. Now, another customer has a similiar need, so I send him to my previous customer to see how the package works. He likes it, and orders it from me. Now, the first time it may have taken me 4 weeks to write. This time, it takes 2 days to modify. However, regardless of the amount of time I spend creating it, that package still has its value of $10,000. If I sell it for less, I lose may lose my previous customers future business, as he may feel ripped off.

As for ripping off mp3 files, let's just say that I am quite a bit older then you are, and my taste in music is older. I don't listen to mp3's on my PC. I prefer my 33's (hope you know what they are)!

I am a supporter of shareware. Shareware allows you to try a product, and if it is a lemon, or if it does not fit you or your budget, you don't buy it. But if you like it, you buy it. Many great games started as shareware, and I supported them all (wolfenstein, doom, hexen, heretic, and so on).

Games are fun, but the companies that create them have a right to be paid for their product. If their prices are too high, don't buy them.

Anyway, I must now take leave on a 3 day business trip. So I can earn more money to pay for more stuff.

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

Fair enough. Beeing a software developer means that for u cannot have other opinion than the one u posted.

And have a nice tripp!

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

i like to have some honey on hot bread... mmmmmm its so good mmmmmmmmmmmm

now what are you saying? what is the problem with a ford.... i think fords suck snake balls

as you get older, your hard drive becomes floppy, but don't fear viagra is here. viagra puts the hard back in your drive!!!

Reply to scamtrOn

Come again?!?

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

Quote :

Eden, you can't pick and chose like that. It doesn't make any difference if you steal the os or if you steal mp3's

What on earth are you referring to, that I said?!
I no longer steal OS', I buy them mind you.

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:

Reply to eden

LOL. Just humor scamtron. He is our resident wierdo.
We also have a resident angel (melb_angel19), a resident freak (wingding), a resident Golum impersinator (svol) and a resident Hamster Lover (me).

Personally the only legal software i see are games and applications that come with bits of hardware. i.e. nero with a cd-rw, powerdvd with my dvd drive etc.

Ive yet to pay for a MS operating system. They are just too damn expensive for what you get.

You will die.
If you are lucky you may last ten decades.
If you are especially lucky you will be
remembered for another 5 decades.

Reply to lhgpoobaa

"Look at the minimum requirements. Anyone who bought the game running under those conditions got ripped off."

Not if you are smart. I too have bought my share of lemons. The last one was for the XBOX, Bruce Lee. My son studies Jeet Kun Do (Bruce Lee's style or unstyle), and just had to have this $50.00 game. It stinks. It does reproduce his movements accurately, but its worth as a game is zero. I can get a $20.00 trade in at EB.

Here is how I avoid lemons in the game market. I subscribe to PC Gamer, XBOX Magazine, PS2 Magazine, and Nintendo Magazine. These publications come complete with CD's and
DVD's that have playable demos. For instance, I loved the Die Hard movies, and was anxious to get the game. There was a playable demo on PC Gamer. Boy, did it stink! Needless to say I didn't buy it. My son previews games on the DVD's he gets from XBOX and PS2 magazines. He can see which ones stand out. The demos also let you see how the program plays on your system, at no charge.

The price of subscribing to these magazines is certainly worth it, as you can preview many games without buying them. I loved the Castle Wolfenstein demo, so I later bought it. If a game is not available on PC Gamer as a demo, I immediately suspect its quality. Publishers can only lose with a bad game on a demo disk.

Another thing you can do is to buy your games from EB. They have a lemon return policy. If you don't like the game, you can exchange it for another of equal price at no charge.

There is no reason to have to suffer with a lemon game.

There is no reason to have to pirate software, or steal any other service (such as cable TV - not to open another bag of worms).

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

I pay for a few things, like Battlefield 1942 and Unreal Tourney. Most office type programs I don't pay for, same for most other programs. I'm a crack / no-cd god. Formatting my computer is a pain, because I've got to tweak all the programs I install and crack them, heh. Flash and Photoshop are 2 of the biggies

It's all good ^_^

Reply to namek0

Demo's suck. You can never tell how a game will really be, unless it just really sucks. Only way to find out is to rent games. Now this only works with console games. How many pc games can you rent? The software industry rips of the consumers. Plain and simple. People pirate, and they raise prices. So legitimate consumers suffer more. If the companies would lower prices more items would be boughten.

Eden - you said that you buy os's but still dl mp3's and such. The mp3's are stealing so there's not much merit in buying the os.

If you're an ugly bastard click <A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"> here</A> to feel better about yourself.

Reply to Yahiko81

Ok yeah you have a point, but what can I do still?
Is there yet a pay per play? Will I have to pay for a CD featuring one song I want to listen to?

As for the OS, it's a full package, I don't consider it the same as the MP3 situation at all. Especially when the XP Home OEM price is very generous, like the Win98, ME price, 99$.

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:

Reply to eden

Hmm, for a lot of stuff, all it takes is "unlocking" the software, all u have is a limitation of some sort on a full version u dl. Now, it's perfectly legal to make cracks, mess w/ software, etc. on ur home comp, as long as u no spread it. So, imo, if someone cracks their own software, kudos, u got a legal copy.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

Reply to Flamethrower205

There's not much you can do. That's one of my points, the music industry is really sticking it to the consumers and then they get mad at us when we find away around it.

Even this one I have were Scam is hammering Poobah in the doodoo hole with a lawn dart as Eden gives birth to something that resembles a cheese log with almunds on Fredi’s tummytum?

Reply to Yahiko81

I agree, and I would be more than ready to pay per song if the service was offered. I prefer doing the legal thing as long as the other side is doing their moral/logical part.

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:

Reply to eden

So would a lot of other people.

Even this one I have were Scam is hammering Poobah in the doodoo hole with a lawn dart as Eden gives birth to something that resembles a cheese log with almunds on Fredi’s tummytum?

Reply to Yahiko81

Let me show you all another point of view.
The average salary in my country (Romania) is about 200$. In IT industry is about 300$.
Let's take 500$ as a base salary. Every month u pay for bills and food about 250$. Another 150$/month I use it for buying stuff (computer unrelated).So I'll have 100$/month to use for the computer (if I'm a computer freak with no social life). What should be my choice? Still have my 486 pc but having money to buy up to date software or having a decent computer and from time to time buying a game?

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

If it's something I really appreciate and use, I buy it.


--------------------------------------------------
Guns kill people just like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.

Reply to HolyShiznit

k... so I only have a few pirated copies of software... and most are MS. Granted, I do actually own the license for WinXP Pro (cheap if you're a student), but OfficeXP Pro w/ Frontpage is something that I got from a friend, who got it from another friend, and on and on... though, I did have to do some major work to it to allow SP1 and all following SPs to be installed (thank you, MS, for posting the instructions so clearly on your website on how to get around your illegal product lock-out :tongue: ).

Also, I s'pose my Win98SE disk has been around the block more than most hookers, which is technically in violation of the EULA.

I also have a warez of Partition Magic Pro 7, and of PowerDVD (which technically, I don't need, since I have a full version of WinDVD that came with my video card and my motherboard). As to games, I only have a copy of NWN (which, as soon as I get the cash, I will be picking up legit) and MOH:Spearhead, which, since it took less than 6 hours to install and play though, getting all the mission medals, on hardest difficulty, I feel is not even worth the CD it was burned to. Needless to say, I won't be purchasing that product, and I have purged all traces of it from my system. What a POS game that was... Other than that, I just want to find myself a copy of Photoshop 7 (or a cheap Photoshop 6 that will allow me to buy the much cheaper upgrade version of Photoshop 7... ain't no way I'm going to pay $750US for the full version if I can get the upgrade for around $100)

So yeah, I don't really condone pirating of software from the small guys, but when it comes to MS, I have not a care. Since they had sales of $5 billion for the Windows and Offices products, with profits of $4.25 billion (that's an 85% profit margin, folks) in 2001 I say fvck you MS, I'm keeping my damned money. Bill Gates can have one less minute of sex from a high class hooker for all I care.

-SammyBoy

[edit]Fixed a major typo[/edit]

Some day, THG-willing, I shall obtain the coveted "Old Hand" title.Edited by SammyBoy on 01/23/03 01:10 AM.

Reply to SammyBoy

Yes, thanks to people like you -- pirates, "crack / no-cd god" (or should I say "script kiddies"? lol), etc, -- that makes hard working people like me and JLBIGGUY -- software developers, programmers, (systems) designers, etc -- lose money and possibly lose our jobs when our business or company we work for goes broke because of all of the lost profits form pirated software. Not only does it hurt us, but it hurts the whole econmomy as well because it doesn't move money.

The other guys said it before, it makes absolutely no sense in using legit software for a business to make money and using illegal software for personal home use. (I would argue more, but the others already made great points).

If you can't afford something either do without it, or look for an alternative (open source freeware, shareware, etc). It may not be 'as good' as the original you wanted, but at least you ain't hurting anyone. Often times there are cheaper/free alternatives for home and personal use while the "professional" or "advanced" cost more, but are mostly targeted at the business/corporation sector.

Have you ever worked in the IT/software development sector? Do you know how much resources goes into devloping new software? And yes, there are upgrades that usually cost cheaper than the original 'whole' software so end-users won't feel cheated out of their money. As far as clotes/jackets being fairly priced.....yeah right! I can find a a 'Hanes' branded shirt that costs 90% cheaper than the same shirt that came from the same manufacturer/factory but has a 'Tommy Hillfigure'(sp?) brand on it. Not to mention 'sweat-shops'. Most, if not all software are fairly priced. The exception being companies hiking prices to accommodate lost revenue.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

I agree with you 150-200%.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

Quote :

Case in point:

You go buy a game. The reviews were good and the demo was good. The game sucks. You can't return it. Say bye to $30-$50.

Alternatively, you buy a game, it rocks, but your system runs the game horribly or not at all. Even though the min requirements are met, it's fairly obvious that the game is not enjoyable without a better computer.

You buy WinME. It costs you a pretty penny. The OS is garbage though and 3 of your hardware components will not work with the OS. You shelve the OS after 2 weeks. You end up buying WinXP a year later. Your total investment is in the hundreds of dollars.

You buy Norton System works. 3 months later you update your system to WinXP and Norton will not work. They expect you to buy a new version of Norton.

You buy a CD-RW drive. When WinXP is released it's not supported. You end up having to buy 3rd party software to get it to work. The same goes for your web camera. Your printer and modem have no software available to them at all even though they're relatively new.

Mind you, LIFE is exactly the same! I don't expect everything to be perfect.

Case in point:

I watch a movie. All the critics rave about it and the preview was good. The movie sucks. Say bye to $10.

I buy a tray of microwaveable dinner. The commercial looks good, the food smells good, but it taste like horse manure. Damn, I wasted money on this, so now I have to go and "upgrade" to a restaurant and buy some real food.

I know my examples are stupid. The point of the whole thing is that in life, you win some and you lose some! Can't expect everything to work perfectly.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

All I can say is: To each their own.

Can you look at me (well... figuratively) and say with a straight face that MS products are sold at their true market value? Can you defend, in any way, shape, or form, the 75-85% profit margin that MS recieves off of it's Windows and Office lines? Profit margins of that level are sure signs of price gouging. Even Intel in it's haydays only had margins around 50%. Plain and simple, MS is charging at least 100% more for its software than it needs to. Info from <A HREF="http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/789019/000103221002001614/d10q.htm" target="_new">SEC filings</A> for the 3 month period between July 2002 and Sept. 2002, reported in the <A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/28128.html" target="_new">The Register</A>:

Quote :

. . . the two cash cows of Client (i.e. Windows) and Information Worker (Office) produced operating income of $2.48 billion on revenue of $2.89 billion, and $1.88 billion on $2.38 billion respectively.

Look at that.... and if you look at the filing, in terms of profit margin including the XBox, MSN, and other money losing ventures, they are still making about a ~50% margin.

We, as the consumer, are getting screwed. Thankfully, I was able to get WinXP Pro (retail packaging, not OEM) for less than the price of WinXP home, because I'm a college student, and qualify for MS's "generous" student discount. But unlike WinXP Pro, the "Student" version of OfficeXP is so stripped down and light on features, its not even worth the $129 price tag that's slapped on it. And they don't have a student discount for MS Frontpage, which is a $300 program in itself, and I am using that for my intranet web pages. So yeah, MS can, and should be screwed for moral reasons, as there is nothing moral about MS's price structures. Granted, everyone at MS benefits, but that means nothing to the 98% of us in the US, and the 99.9999% of the world that aren't employed by MS.

Other stuff, I understand why people don't pirate. I got the copy of PartitionMagic Pro 7 a while back when I decided that waiting 3 hrs for my HDD to be defraged was way too long, so I split it up into three parts. Later on, I didn't even need it, since I did a full format and reinstall, and just partitioned with WinXP setup. Now, I don't even have a use for it, and the file just sits in My Documents, doing nothing. I don't share it, it just sits there, taking up 51MB of space. PowerDVD is only marginally worth having, and since I just realized over Christmas that I have full versions of WinDVD, I'll just install that instead, and see if its better.

Now MP3s, I can truly say that the legit to illegit ratio is about 8GB to 300MB. In otherwords, most of my MP3s are from CDs I own, which is not illegal, no matter what the RIAA tries to convince people of. I only share a few of my discs, and those are to people who express genuine interest in that kind of music, so I give them a taste. Because of me, about 50CDs have been bought that normally wouldn't have been bought, and I myself have purchased, and plan on purchasing, about 10 more CDs for artists that I have heard only because of MP3s.... the kind of things you won't hear on the radio. In fact, one group was given to me, who's single I hated, but ended up liking most of the other CD, so I got it. That, I will say, is quite rare, but it is not so rare for people to get CDs because of MP3s they downloaded. I mean, truly the people who are out to share as much as possible make MP3s that are 128kbps CBR, with pops, clicks, and horrible tinny sound. Since those are the large majority of MP3s out there (not mine, which are VBR from 94-224kbps, using Lame and the R3Mix Preset), people are driven to getting clean copies just to hear what it should sound like... it's what happened to me. And God forbid if you try to put those mass produced MP3s into CDA format... you'll think you're listening to a scratched up 33 that has a bad needle.

Like I said, I only get pirated software when its MS, or when I am having trouble deciding if I'll like a game or something, because as has been stated before, demos are usually misleading. PCGamer is a great resource, and generally, I find their reviews spot on, but at the same time, they are usually 3 months behind in terms of whats out and what's new, and by then, if my interest in a game has passed, there is no reason for me to want to read the review... usually, I use PCGamer to find the hidden gems, just like MP3s... those wonderful little pieces of code that just weren't hyped enough for me to hear about. Otherwise, I have started to pull .img files off of my intranet file-sharing program to test out, like NWN, which I will be getting as soon as my tax refund arrives.

-SammyBoy

Some day, THG-willing, I shall obtain the coveted "Old Hand" title.

Reply to SammyBoy

Quote :

I strongly advice everybody to use pirated software for home use

Again, what's the difference between using pirates software for home use in oppose to business use? Comapnies still lose money, people still lose jobs.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

Quote :

Why I will pay for $500 for Photoshop, since I will use it to edit only a few pics? With this money I can build a PC.

There are other, free alternatives, like <A HREF="http://www.gimp.org" target="_new">Gimp</A>.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

Quote :

If someone cracks their own software, kudos, u got a legal copy.

Yeah, that's true if you own a legit copy of the software, then you can modify it as you wish. Unless the EULA strictly prohibits it.

But "unlocking" software involves modifying a demo/shareware version of the software that 99.9% prohibits such modifications. Have you ever read the EULA of such software? Or do you just click on 'next' or 'install'??

So you're saying taking a demo software and "unlocking" it my modifying the source, while the EULA strictly prohibits it, and turning it into a legal copy is OK?
Your theory/opinion is severely flawed.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

Can you look at me (well... figuratively) and say with a straight face that 'stealing from the rich' is OK?
You can't blame M$ for being a successful company, but you can choose whether to use their software or look for cheaper/free alternatives.

Main point: Stealing is stealing, whether it's from a successful or unsuccesful company.

Disregard my previous post.

Reply to Stick_e_Mouse

Quote :

If you can't afford something either do without it, or look for an alternative
(open source freeware, shareware, etc). It may not be 'as good' as the original
you wanted, but at least you ain't hurting anyone

Hmm...if you don´t buy the original and go for a shareware version, won´t
the 'result' be the same as if I chose to make an illegal copy of the original?

To me the result is the same, a lost customer, so I might as well go for that
illegal copy...

My sig, not yours

Reply to Jake75

I have yet another question:

If the sofware developers don't care if I can afford their products at outrageous prices (IMO) why should I care if they lose money because I use piratated sofware?

Romania is a beautiful country, unfortunately it's inhabited.

Reply to ciuly

Your example is solid. It's just a matter of deciept. If I know the movie is good I'll see it in the theater and pay for it. It's kinda hard to screw up with a Spielberg film for example. There's a huge difference between seeing a lemon movie and getting lemon software since the only real thing I have to go off of with software is the review (or 3 of them) and the demo, both which can be decietful. I've had better luck with the opinion of people here at least. Nonetheless, I get the feeling a lot of these reviews are either written by 14 year olds, or they're just regurgitating PR from the company. With movies, I generally have 100 reviews, thousands of people's opinions, and I generally have a sense of which directors and actors are worth watching. This doesn't justify pirating software in the least bit, but it makes errors a lot easier to avoid while watching a movie. I can only blame myself for sneaking into Battlefield Earth and actually watching that garbage. Nobody deserves the shame of actually forking over MONEY to see that film.

Microwave dinners are a given that they will suck. I don't think I've ever had one that was good, and I never expected anything from it.

Nonetheless, your point is definitely well taken.

DSL has changed the face of piracy quite a bit. So has the CD burner. As long as game manufacturer's keep posting ridiculous system requirments on the box, I doubt I'll buy most games.

Funny thing is I swore I would buy UT2K3, downloaded the Demo, hated the demo, and didn't buy a game that I was waiting years for. Although their system requirements are more realistic than BF1942, is there anyone here who honestly would spend any money on that game to run it on this system:

PIII 1Ghz
256MB RAM
32MB Videocard (DX 6 compliant)

These are the recommended requirements (or greater of course). I've got the requirements beat, and so far don't like the game.

Pretty shitty if you ask me.


<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Forum Assassin</A>

Reply to dhlucke

Quote :

You can't blame M$ for being a successful company

Actually you can and quite a bit of people have sued them for it.

Even this one I have were Scam is hammering Poobah in the doodoo hole with a lawn dart as Eden gives birth to something that resembles a cheese log with almunds on Fredi’s tummytum?

Reply to Yahiko81

so its there fault for making a good, usable product that many people like? they should learn form this and make it crap again?

Now thats what I want to know!

Reply to Secretninja

There OS's are crap. No other company I know of can put out a shoddy product and then charge an exorbant amount of money for it and fix it as they go. They know about a lot of the bugs and security holes yet they still send their product out. And they've kept other company's from prospering by strong arm tactics. Do I really need to go into the evils of M$? I thought they were quite evident. Yes I'm glad M$ is around, don't get me wrong. It really helped the pc industry, but it's kinda holding it back now. Why should M$ make a good product when there are people like you willing to put up with the [-peep-] they roll out now. If we don't complain they'll never make a better product. And they won't really make a better product until they get real competition. I don't know about you but I'm pretty fed up with M$.

Even this one I have were Scam is hammering Poobah in the doodoo hole with a lawn dart as Eden gives birth to something that resembles a cheese log with almunds on Fredi’s tummytum?

Reply to Yahiko81

I paid good money for Windows ME. I've been butt-f*cked before, but it never hurt so much :frown:

:eek: Remember it's only a crime if you're caught :eek:

Reply to WingDing

Quote :

so its there fault for making a good, usable product that many people like?

Seriously?

Are you serious?

Win95 was garbage compared to the Mac OS they copied back then. Win98 crashed every 15 minutes. Win98se kept the crashing down to a few times a day. WinME didn't work.

I personally hate the crap out of office. It's bloated beyond belief. I'm still using office 2000 since XP is so bloated that my computer just spits the disk out and says "blah".

I'm pretty happy with WinXP, but it has more security holes than I even thought possible. A fresh install of SP1 still requires some ridiculous amount of patches.

They stiffle competition.

They charge prices that are beyond the average person's means. Do you realize what I could do with the $99 they charged for WinME? I could have fed a starving child in Africa for quite some time. Instead I wasted it on a cd that wasn't even worthy of being a coaster at a frat party.

And that upgrade was cheap compared to what XP costs.


<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Forum Assassin</A>

Reply to dhlucke

Oh, and was it mentioned that in some cases, if you have system critical software from MS, and require the fix immediately instead of waiting until they decide to make it "publicly availible" on the web (i.e. Someone has published the way to exploit said hole), you will get chargerd even more money on top of the money you already plunked down for the 3 year license?

Oh yeah, that's really the mark of good software. Here, we'll fix our own fvck up... just give us more money first.

Only MS has the balls, and the monopoly, to pull crap like that.

-SammyBoy

Some day, THG-willing, I shall obtain the coveted "Old Hand" title.

Reply to SammyBoy

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other - Pay or not for the software u use at home?

Please mind

Focus On

Pay or not for the software u use at home?

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other - Pay or not for the software u use at home?

Please mind