Audio Quality: Does CDMA have a network codec compression ..

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I've been using cellular for a little more than five years (cannot remember
exactly). Started on GSM (then voicestream),
then used IS-136 TDMA (then AT&T Wireless), and now on CDMA via Verizon.

Each technology seems to have good to excellent sound quality under ideal
signal conditions. Each seems to degrade somewhat differently as signal
quality becomes poor. To me, the way IS-136 TDMA sounds when in a deficient
signal quality area sounds the worst- whole words missing, the tone of voice
may become very low- almost sounds like you're talking with darth vader. I
don't remember much distortion of GSM. It seemed more likely the GSM call
would simply drop at a certain point when sufficient signal was not
available. When I started with Verizon several years ago, I would have said
the same of CDMA.

Lately, here in my area, the quality of my Verizon CDMA calls has gone down
in many but not all cases. It's the difference between the best case, which
sounds close but not quite as good as landline, to cases where I hear quite
a bit of distortion but can still understand what the person is saying. My
phone service as of late, has been plenty adequate to understand what the
person is saying, but is poor enough quality that it's annoying to the
uninitiated.

The other odd bit, and I have no actual data to back this up, but it almost
seems to me that someone at the network level can control the amount of
compression the codec is using, and can turn it up to accomodate more calls.
In other words, I may be insane, but I think the quality of all my calls,
even the "good" ones, are less good than they used to be. I only notice
this because I have family who aren't cellular users, and they didn't used
to complain about the quality of audio when I called them in the past, but
they consistently do now. I've tested by leaving myself messages, and
retrieving them (with landline) to hear how I sound. Sounds "OK" to me, but
definitely identifiable as a cell phone which I don't remember being so
pronounced.

Tonight I was on a call that was especially bad, where the quality was just
barely usable, and in an area where I have used my phone previously.

Anyway, maybe all I'm seeing is capacity related issues. I would be curious
if there is any merit to my guess that the network operator can tweak the
codec compression level...

-Dan

PS: I know it's not my handset, because I own several. I can also force
Sprint connection on my phone, and to me, calls do sound clearer on Sprint
(and no, I don't believe their CDMA is any different than Verizon's CDMA-
just less busy, or maybe the codec compression setting really exists).

--
Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu
 
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Dan Albrich wrote:
> I've been using cellular for a little more than five years (cannot
> remember exactly). Started on GSM (then voicestream),
> then used IS-136 TDMA (then AT&T Wireless), and now on CDMA via
> Verizon.
> Each technology seems to have good to excellent sound quality under
> ideal signal conditions. Each seems to degrade somewhat differently
> as signal quality becomes poor. To me, the way IS-136 TDMA sounds
> when in a deficient signal quality area sounds the worst- whole words
> missing, the tone of voice may become very low- almost sounds like
> you're talking with darth vader. I don't remember much distortion of
> GSM. It seemed more likely the GSM call would simply drop at a
> certain point when sufficient signal was not available. When I
> started with Verizon several years ago, I would have said the same of
> CDMA.
> Lately, here in my area, the quality of my Verizon CDMA calls has
> gone down in many but not all cases. It's the difference between the
> best case, which sounds close but not quite as good as landline, to
> cases where I hear quite a bit of distortion but can still understand
> what the person is saying. My phone service as of late, has been
> plenty adequate to understand what the person is saying, but is poor
> enough quality that it's annoying to the uninitiated.
>
> The other odd bit, and I have no actual data to back this up, but it
> almost seems to me that someone at the network level can control the
> amount of compression the codec is using, and can turn it up to
> accomodate more calls. In other words, I may be insane, but I think
> the quality of all my calls, even the "good" ones, are less good than
> they used to be. I only notice this because I have family who aren't
> cellular users, and they didn't used to complain about the quality of
> audio when I called them in the past, but they consistently do now.
> I've tested by leaving myself messages, and retrieving them (with
> landline) to hear how I sound. Sounds "OK" to me, but definitely
> identifiable as a cell phone which I don't remember being so
> pronounced.
> Tonight I was on a call that was especially bad, where the quality
> was just barely usable, and in an area where I have used my phone
> previously.
> Anyway, maybe all I'm seeing is capacity related issues. I would be
> curious if there is any merit to my guess that the network operator
> can tweak the codec compression level...
>
> -Dan
>
> PS: I know it's not my handset, because I own several. I can also
> force Sprint connection on my phone, and to me, calls do sound
> clearer on Sprint (and no, I don't believe their CDMA is any
> different than Verizon's CDMA- just less busy, or maybe the codec
> compression setting really exists).

How does your signal meter read during these erratic calls? Have you
programmed the PRL list recently using *228?

--
David G.
 
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> How does your signal meter read during these erratic calls? Have you
> programmed the PRL list recently using *228?

Hello David-

Yes, current PRL 50233. Verizon has good coverage in Eugene Oregon
proper-- most places. At my house I have line of sight to two Verizon
towers
and get "full bars." I live close to the center of town, so all of the
carriers have
good signal at my home. Anyway, I believe audio quality, on average, has
gone
down for me.

-Dan

--
Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu
 
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On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:39:32 -0800, "Dan Albrich"
<junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote:
>
>Anyway, maybe all I'm seeing is capacity related issues. I would be curious
>if there is any merit to my guess that the network operator can tweak the
>codec compression level...
>
I'll bet you're on the right track. What kind of OS do these phones
use, anyway? It would be nice if someone would write a utility to log
statistical information about each call. Can you look at system files
inside a phone with a hex editor?

Charlie
 
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On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:39:32 -0800, "Dan Albrich"
<junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote:

>Anyway, maybe all I'm seeing is capacity related issues. I would be curious
>if there is any merit to my guess that the network operator can tweak the
>codec compression level...

>PS: I know it's not my handset, because I own several. I can also force
>Sprint connection on my phone, and to me, calls do sound clearer on Sprint
>(and no, I don't believe their CDMA is any different than Verizon's CDMA-
>just less busy, or maybe the codec compression setting really exists).

CDMA by design does a graceful degregation as the number of users per
cell tower increases.

But also, there are three (well, really only two) different CODECs
that CDMA uses: 8k, EVRC (Enhanced Variable Rate Codec) and 13k.

Most older CDMA phones are set to 8k or EVRC. New phones are EVRC.
However, most have the OPTION to set to 13k.

Granted, even if the phone is set to 13k, that doesn't mean that the
network will respond to the request. In fact, not all CDMA systems
even support 13k (though most now do).

VZW for the most part supports 13k. I tried a couple of weeks ago in
nearby Alltel terrority and they also support 13k. Tried in a US
Cellular area a couple week ago and they also now support 13k. (A
while back they only supported 8k).

Now on how to force your phone to use 13k... if you can find out how
to enter the configuration modes on your phone and can change the
CODEC, then I highly suggest doing it. Do a Google search on the brand
and model of phone.

Also, here's a website that I've used for my Motorola phones:

http://phones.stevecrow.net (hasn't been updated in a while)

Hope this helps.

Dave
 
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Thanks Dave and others-

Yes, I know how to force 13K, so I'll give that a try. Sounds like a good
idea. The last time I did
this it seemed my phone had an audible "hiss" during silence which the EVRC
codec kept silent.
(Silence with EVRC seemed like true silence not that this is a big concern).

The word I was looking for last night to describe the distortion I hear is
"warble." It's not
bad enough to cause me to misunderstand someone, it's just slightly
annoying. I seem to get this
effect with much greater frequency, so as others have mentioned, it probably
is simply
capacity related.

In any event, the part of my cellular service I pay for (and care about) is
the ability to
have short, basic communication. For this, everything is fine.

-Dan

PS: Part of the reason I posted this question to begin with is to see if
others have
similar experience. I'm not seeing a lot of "me too's" so there may be
something
about my specific situation going on.

--
Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu
 
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On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:39:32 -0800, Dan Albrich wrote:

> The other odd bit, and I have no actual data to back this up, but it almost
> seems to me that someone at the network level can control the amount of
> compression the codec is using, and can turn it up to accomodate more calls.

The CDMA cell towers can indeed change the compression rates to accomodate
more users, if necessary. I frequently notice call quality degradation
during times when more users are on the network, i.e. rush hours, evenings,
etc.
 
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> I've been using cellular for a little more than five years (cannot remember
> exactly). Started on GSM (then voicestream),
> then used IS-136 TDMA (then AT&T Wireless), and now on CDMA via Verizon.

I went just the opposite: I had CDMA with Verizon, then switched to
Cingular TDMA, then to AT&T GSM.

> Each technology seems to have good to excellent sound quality under ideal
> signal conditions. Each seems to degrade somewhat differently as signal
> quality becomes poor. To me, the way IS-136 TDMA sounds when in a deficient
> signal quality area sounds the worst- whole words missing, the tone of voice
> may become very low- almost sounds like you're talking with darth vader. I
> don't remember much distortion of GSM. It seemed more likely the GSM call
> would simply drop at a certain point when sufficient signal was not
> available. When I started with Verizon several years ago, I would have said
> the same of CDMA.

When I had Verizon CDMA, it was on an Audiovox 9100 series phone. I
found the digital quality to be very poor, but the AMPS quality to be
outstanding. I know it wasn't my handset, others where I lived had the
same experience. Before making an outgoing call, I would always "Force
Analog". Another big advantage is that AMPS would have static for a
second, then be clear, but digital would just cut out. With CDMA, I
have never been able to clearly identify voices, but with *giod* AMPS,
TDMA, or GSM, I have been able to identify voices much easier (for
example, I can tell my brother from my father on landline or GSM, but
with CDMA, I cannot).

> Lately, here in my area, the quality of my Verizon CDMA calls has gone down
> in many but not all cases. It's the difference between the best case, which
> sounds close but not quite as good as landline, to cases where I hear quite
> a bit of distortion but can still understand what the person is saying. My
> phone service as of late, has been plenty adequate to understand what the
> person is saying, but is poor enough quality that it's annoying to the
> uninitiated.

I would say *my* experience has been that CDMA distorts voice quality.
I could always tell what the other party was saying, but it had a
"tinny" kind of sound to it, and it did not sound like the person would
on a landline. I then moved to a more populated area and took a TDMA
plan because of frequent travels to rural areas not served with GSM.
Later, after GSM was more widely deployed, I switched to it. I have no
quelms over my decision, and for voice quality reasons I would never go
back to CDMA...I would go back to full wireline first.

> The other odd bit, and I have no actual data to back this up, but it almost
> seems to me that someone at the network level can control the amount of
> compression the codec is using, and can turn it up to accomodate more calls.
> In other words, I may be insane, but I think the quality of all my calls,
> even the "good" ones, are less good than they used to be. I only notice
> this because I have family who aren't cellular users, and they didn't used
> to complain about the quality of audio when I called them in the past, but
> they consistently do now. I've tested by leaving myself messages, and
> retrieving them (with landline) to hear how I sound. Sounds "OK" to me, but
> definitely identifiable as a cell phone which I don't remember being so
> pronounced.

That's one of the advantages of CDMA. CDMA has better network capacity,
but at the price of audio quality. With CDMA, you can always add just
one more connection, but the bandwidth required for that connection is
portioned from users already on.

> Tonight I was on a call that was especially bad, where the quality was just
> barely usable, and in an area where I have used my phone previously.
>
> Anyway, maybe all I'm seeing is capacity related issues. I would be curious
> if there is any merit to my guess that the network operator can tweak the
> codec compression level...
>
> -Dan
>
> PS: I know it's not my handset, because I own several. I can also force
> Sprint connection on my phone, and to me, calls do sound clearer on Sprint
> (and no, I don't believe their CDMA is any different than Verizon's CDMA-
> just less busy, or maybe the codec compression setting really exists).

CDMA and GSM each of their advantages. CDMA has easier upgrade paths
and better network capacity, plus AMPS backup has been standardized.
GSM has better voice quality and compatibility with other networks
around the globe, it does not have standardized AMPS backup, but it has
a much wider range of handsets available, and with SmartCard technology
(the Subscriber Identity Module, or SIM is a SmartCard), you can switch
phones quickly and easily.

TH