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EQ2: Do SOE actually listen to their customers?

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 2:27:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

I never played EQ1 so i'm not sure of the history of SOE. Could someone tell
me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?

I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there complaining
about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that SOE have introduced
a patch to make it more difficult to solo. It's a really bizzare way to
treat paying customers and I simply cant work it out.

Surely they must know that WoW is going great in the USA and the European
release is just around the corner. I have no idea who actually makes the
decisons on updates etc, but you'd think they would at least acknowledge
that they have considered the wishes of the community.

Did they do this with EQ1?

More about : eq2 soe listen customers

Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 2:27:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Careful, or this thread will derail into a world-class bitch session. You can make some
of the people happy some of the time........

.........but some of the people will never be happy, period.

>Could someone tell me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?

During the summer of 2004, SOE held a player/developer summit, wherein they discussed the
direction of EQL at length and took suggestions for improving the game. Many of those
player suggestions have since appeared in the gameworld, always clearly marked in the
relevant patch message. In my experience, these customer-driven changes have typically
been positive enhancements.

(I do not know if the farming of opinions and suggestions is an ongoing process.)

SoE has established an official account on at least my class website, and that the owner
checks in occasionally with the community. I can only assume (or !hope!) that the same
activity is taking place on other class websites.

Best regards,

Tim ==

(substitute 'tcsys.com' for 'nospam.co.uk')
_________________

Seeq Endestroi
Paladin of Mithanial Marr, The Rathe
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=507035

Grave Wisdom / Grave Intentions (a Rathe guild)
http://www.gravewisdom.com

Visit the Surrender Dorothy web ! (http://dorothyrocks.com)
Visit the Crunch Monkey web ! (http://crunchmonkey.com)
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 2:27:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Cheddar wrote:

> When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo
quests. By
> the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.

I'm guessing that you are taking this on hearsay and haven't tried it
yourself, correct? I haven't spent much more time in TS than required
to run to RoV, but in Nek there are solo creatures right at the CL
zone, as well as the beach. You can find solo treants and bears also.
There is a lot more grouped mobs, but there are solo ones also.

Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures. Even after the
patch that beefed critters up yesterday I am able to solo pretty
readily there, and I get ripped to shreds in a toe-to-toe fight.

There are plenty of places to solo, at least up as far as 36 so far,
you just need to keep your eyes open and look for them.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 2:27:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meaffwin wrote:
> Cheddar wrote:
>
> > When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo
> quests. By
> > the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.
>
> I'm guessing that you are taking this on hearsay and haven't tried it
> yourself, correct? I haven't spent much more time in TS than
required
> to run to RoV, but in Nek there are solo creatures right at the CL
> zone, as well as the beach. You can find solo treants and bears
also.
> There is a lot more grouped mobs, but there are solo ones also.
>
> Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
> area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures. Even after
the
> patch that beefed critters up yesterday I am able to solo pretty
> readily there, and I get ripped to shreds in a toe-to-toe fight.
>
> There are plenty of places to solo, at least up as far as 36 so far,
> you just need to keep your eyes open and look for them.

Oops, I missed the quests part of your complaint. So far, I've seen
quite a few quests that you can complete in EL solo - including Blood
of the Bears Two and Three, Sir Tatters, etc. Some of the best
soloable quests are collection and category quests, also.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 2:50:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Cheddar wrote:
> "Meaffwin" <suka_@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1104946062.725180.212970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Cheddar wrote:
> >
> >> When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo
> > quests. By
> >> the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.
> >
> > I'm guessing that you are taking this on hearsay and haven't tried
it
> > yourself, correct? I haven't spent much more time in TS than
required
> > to run to RoV, but in Nek there are solo creatures right at the CL
> > zone, as well as the beach. You can find solo treants and bears
also.
> > There is a lot more grouped mobs, but there are solo ones also.
> >
> > Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
> > area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures. Even after
the
> > patch that beefed critters up yesterday I am able to solo pretty
> > readily there, and I get ripped to shreds in a toe-to-toe fight.
> >
> > There are plenty of places to solo, at least up as far as 36 so
far,
> > you just need to keep your eyes open and look for them.
> >
>
> I disagree. Solo monsters rarely drop chests which is why solo quests
are
> desperately needed for the solo player.

Rarely compared to groups, yes. But my feeling is that it is about 1/5
to 1/6 as rare, which is about the same for one person to score
something from a group dropped chest. I worked on my disarm by soloing
green and blue orcs because the chests dropped often enough that I
wouldn't have to risk killing any groups trying to work on that skill.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 4:29:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:27:57 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
wrotC:D RIVE_E

>I never played EQ1 so i'm not sure of the history of SOE. Could someone tell
>me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?

Not usually. There's a good reason:"The players don't know what they
want". (Attributed to Raph Koster or Brad McQuaid -- either way,
whoever said it was right.)

Much of what players demand is good for them in the short term, bad
for the game in the long term.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 4:45:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
news:KbQCd.18336$332.11337@fe19.usenetserver.com...
>I never played EQ1 so i'm not sure of the history of SOE. Could someone
>tell me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?
>
> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there complaining
> about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that SOE have
> introduced a patch to make it more difficult to solo. It's a really
> bizzare way to treat paying customers and I simply cant work it out.
>
> Surely they must know that WoW is going great in the USA and the European
> release is just around the corner. I have no idea who actually makes the
> decisons on updates etc, but you'd think they would at least acknowledge
> that they have considered the wishes of the community.
>
> Did they do this with EQ1?
>
>

This is EXACTLY what they did in eq1, and why I wont go near another SOE
game.
Another thing you can look forward to is 8 expansions, and being left behind
the mudflation if you dont buy them.

Im just amazed that so many people have bought eq2 in spite of soe's past
record.
January 5, 2005 5:33:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
news:AbSCd.104945$K7.83077@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

>> Did they do this with EQ1?
>>
> This is EXACTLY what they did in eq1, and why I wont go near another
SOE
> game.

It boggles the mind that people continue to complain about EQ2 being
group friendly. That's what game has been designed for and promoted as
from day one. The same thing with EQ1, in that case they pushed it even
more in the beginning as a group oriented game when it came out, yet
people to this day are still complaining that it's a group oriented game
and it's tough soloing. Double duh!

I solo and it's tough a lot of the time, but that's how the game was
written. It's not a democracy where people playing it get to design it
according to their own wants and needs. But that sure doesn't stop them
from trying over and over and over and over for years.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 6:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Unk" <unkadunk@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95D5571C1E36Aunkadunknotherecom@24.93.43.121...
> "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
> news:AbSCd.104945$K7.83077@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
>>> Did they do this with EQ1?
>>>
>> This is EXACTLY what they did in eq1, and why I wont go near another
> SOE
>> game.
>
> It boggles the mind that people continue to complain about EQ2 being
> group friendly. That's what game has been designed for and promoted as
> from day one.

It was also clearly stated that you could play the game solo, which is
simply rubbish. Here's a quote from SOE before the game was released:

Q.Will I be able to solo whenever I want to?

A. Yes. We want players to enjoy themselves regardless of their preferred
play style or how many hours a day they can log in. Our game has significant
amounts of content designed for all classes to be able to solo at all
levels, including quests, jobs assigned by NPCs, and areas where opponents
can be fought solo rather than in a group.

That is basically a pack of lies.

Bizzarely with the latest 'patch' they have made it even more difficult to
solo. They have increased the damage done by mobs. Basically only mobs drop
chests which means it is getting pretty much impossible to get chest drops
and further your character without grouping.

When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo quests. By
the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.

I've got nothing against people who want to group, it's SOE forcing players
to play a certain way and nerfing the game to make solo play even more
difficult than it should be.

>The same thing with EQ1, in that case they pushed it even
> more in the beginning as a group oriented game when it came out, yet
> people to this day are still complaining that it's a group oriented game
> and it's tough soloing. Double duh!
>
> I solo and it's tough a lot of the time, but that's how the game was
> written. It's not a democracy where people playing it get to design it
> according to their own wants and needs. But that sure doesn't stop them
> from trying over and over and over and over for years.

I never played EQ1 so I cant comment on that.

It may not be a democracy but I am a paying customer and believe it or not
my views should matter to SOE. I wouldnt be surprised if they simply think
they can simply ignore the major complaints by customers and carry on as
normal like you stated they did with EQ1.

This time however EQ1 is not the only MMORPG, the market is getting very
competitive and customers do now have other options.

Personally I am waiting for WoW's europe release. If the 'Major Patch' that
SOE has been promising for the last few weeks doesnt fix the gameplay
problem for solo players then i'm out. SOE has stated that including a lot
more single player content is at the top of their list but the lastest patch
that nerfed solo play even more doesnt fill me with hope.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 6:10:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Timothy J. Trace" <tim@tcsys.nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:39snt0tiunqedtu4kgmnoqi8ts4qloem04@4ax.com...
> Careful, or this thread will derail into a world-class bitch session. You
> can make some
> of the people happy some of the time........
>
> ........but some of the people will never be happy, period.
>
>>Could someone tell me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?
>
> During the summer of 2004, SOE held a player/developer summit, wherein
> they discussed the
> direction of EQL at length and took suggestions for improving the game.
> Many of those
> player suggestions have since appeared in the gameworld, always clearly
> marked in the
> relevant patch message. In my experience, these customer-driven changes
> have typically
> been positive enhancements.
>
> (I do not know if the farming of opinions and suggestions is an ongoing
> process.)
>
> SoE has established an official account on at least my class website, and
> that the owner
> checks in occasionally with the community. I can only assume (or !hope!)
> that the same
> activity is taking place on other class websites.

My complaint really lies with the structure of the game rather than the
classes. I can understand how these can take a while to tweak etc.

It's basically the major areas of the gameplay that seem to have problems,
such as crafting, selling and the obvious forced grouping that SOE seem
obsessed with.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 6:10:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:10:02 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote:

>It's basically the major areas of the gameplay that seem to have problems,
>such as crafting, selling and the obvious forced grouping that SOE seem
>obsessed with.

I cannot speak knowledgeably about complaints #1 and #2, but what's this about "obvious
forced grouping?"

IIRC, Gates of Discord introduced single-player tasks. I've run a few of these, each of
which took less than 15 minutes to complete, and rewarded me with approximately the same
amount of XP that I'd get from successfully soloing 2x mobs...which would take about 15
minutes with regen time.

Another point: if they made high-level mobs easy enough to solo, they'd always be dead
when you went looking for them.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 6:25:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Unk <unkadunk@nothere.com> wrote in
news:Xns95D5571C1E36Aunkadunknotherecom@24.93.43.121:

> "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
> news:AbSCd.104945$K7.83077@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
>>> Did they do this with EQ1?
>>>
>> This is EXACTLY what they did in eq1, and why I wont go near another
> SOE
>> game.
>
> It boggles the mind that people continue to complain about EQ2 being
> group friendly. That's what game has been designed for and promoted
> as from day one. The same thing with EQ1, in that case they pushed it
> even more in the beginning as a group oriented game when it came out,
> yet people to this day are still complaining that it's a group
> oriented game and it's tough soloing. Double duh!
>
> I solo and it's tough a lot of the time, but that's how the game was
> written. It's not a democracy where people playing it get to design
> it according to their own wants and needs. But that sure doesn't stop
> them from trying over and over and over and over for years.
>

I gotta agree. I'm glad SoE is sticking to their original design and
philosophy. I would feel that way about any game, regardless of which
route it took, soloable, groupable or both. I think it's a bad idea to
design the core of a game with one philosophy in mind and then try to
bend it to satisfy another. It is what it is. Play it if it's your bag,
don't if it's not.

Additionally, it's no secret that people will tend to beg for things
that aren't necessarily good for them or the game in the long run.
Instant gratification rules the day far too often.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 7:11:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in
news:3pTCd.33403$kg7.21673@fe57.usenetserver.com:

>
> "Unk" <unkadunk@nothere.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95D5571C1E36Aunkadunknotherecom@24.93.43.121...
>> "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
>> news:AbSCd.104945$K7.83077@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>>
>>>> Did they do this with EQ1?
>>>>
>>> This is EXACTLY what they did in eq1, and why I wont go near another
>>> SOE game.
>>
>> It boggles the mind that people continue to complain about EQ2 being
>> group friendly. That's what game has been designed for and promoted
>> as from day one.
>
> It was also clearly stated that you could play the game solo, which is
> simply rubbish. Here's a quote from SOE before the game was released:
>
> Q.Will I be able to solo whenever I want to?
>
> A. Yes. We want players to enjoy themselves regardless of their
> preferred play style or how many hours a day they can log in. Our game
> has significant amounts of content designed for all classes to be able
> to solo at all levels, including quests, jobs assigned by NPCs, and
> areas where opponents can be fought solo rather than in a group.
>
> That is basically a pack of lies.
>
> Bizzarely with the latest 'patch' they have made it even more
> difficult to solo. They have increased the damage done by mobs.
> Basically only mobs drop chests which means it is getting pretty much
> impossible to get chest drops and further your character without
> grouping.
>
> When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo
> quests. By the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.
>
> I've got nothing against people who want to group, it's SOE forcing
> players to play a certain way and nerfing the game to make solo play
> even more difficult than it should be.
>
>>The same thing with EQ1, in that case they pushed it even
>> more in the beginning as a group oriented game when it came out, yet
>> people to this day are still complaining that it's a group oriented
>> game and it's tough soloing. Double duh!
>>
>> I solo and it's tough a lot of the time, but that's how the game was
>> written. It's not a democracy where people playing it get to design
>> it according to their own wants and needs. But that sure doesn't stop
>> them from trying over and over and over and over for years.
>
> I never played EQ1 so I cant comment on that.
>
> It may not be a democracy but I am a paying customer and believe it or
> not my views should matter to SOE. I wouldnt be surprised if they
> simply think they can simply ignore the major complaints by customers
> and carry on as normal like you stated they did with EQ1.
>
> This time however EQ1 is not the only MMORPG, the market is getting
> very competitive and customers do now have other options.
>
> Personally I am waiting for WoW's europe release. If the 'Major Patch'
> that SOE has been promising for the last few weeks doesnt fix the
> gameplay problem for solo players then i'm out. SOE has stated that
> including a lot more single player content is at the top of their list
> but the lastest patch that nerfed solo play even more doesnt fill me
> with hope.
>

Still soloing at 20...

Sure I group too, and it's much better xp, but, soloing has not been hard
to do.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 20 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 7:14:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Timothy J. Trace <tim@tcsys.nospam.co.uk> wrote in
news:39snt0tiunqedtu4kgmnoqi8ts4qloem04@4ax.com:

> Careful, or this thread will derail into a world-class bitch session.
> You can make some of the people happy some of the time........
>
> ........but some of the people will never be happy, period.
>
>>Could someone tell me if SOE actual take players opinions into
>>account?
>
> During the summer of 2004, SOE held a player/developer summit, wherein
> they discussed the direction of EQL at length and took suggestions for
> improving the game. Many of those player suggestions have since
> appeared in the gameworld, always clearly marked in the relevant patch
> message. In my experience, these customer-driven changes have
> typically been positive enhancements.

During the summer of 2004, SoE held an uber guild player/developer
summit...

Many of the suggestions from that summit were not particularly beneficial
to the run of the mill players.

>
> (I do not know if the farming of opinions and suggestions is an
> ongoing process.)
>
> SoE has established an official account on at least my class website,
> and that the owner checks in occasionally with the community. I can
> only assume (or !hope!) that the same activity is taking place on
> other class websites.

They are certainly doing better in regards to listening to customers than
they did prior to 2004. My favorite one is loads of players complaining
that alchemy is broken, SoE (or was it still Verant?) replying, no it's
not. Eventually after many months, they finally admitted, oh, yeah, it
is...

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 20 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 7:25:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Timothy J. Trace" <tim@tcsys.nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ja2ot0lecvpc53j9afdlr52qpbkhc33jbp@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:10:02 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote:
>
>>It's basically the major areas of the gameplay that seem to have problems,
>>such as crafting, selling and the obvious forced grouping that SOE seem
>>obsessed with.
>
> I cannot speak knowledgeably about complaints #1 and #2, but what's this
> about "obvious
> forced grouping?"

Well the latest patch has made it even more difficult to solo mob groups.
This coupled with the fact that it's very rare that a solo creature will
drop a chest makes it very difficult to improve your character at higher
levels.

Also the lack of solo quests at higher levels also forces people to group as
there's no other way of ganing experience.

> IIRC, Gates of Discord introduced single-player tasks. I've run a few of
> these, each of
> which took less than 15 minutes to complete, and rewarded me with
> approximately the same
> amount of XP that I'd get from successfully soloing 2x mobs...which would
> take about 15
> minutes with regen time.
>
> Another point: if they made high-level mobs easy enough to solo, they'd
> always be dead
> when you went looking for them.

I'm not asking for them to be made easier, though I think it's taking the
piss that they made them harder. I'm simply asking for more solo quests that
can be completed on your own. There are way to many quests that are supposed
to be solo yet it turns out are impossible to complete on your own.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 8:05:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
news:KbQCd.18336$332.11337@fe19.usenetserver.com...
> I never played EQ1 so i'm not sure of the history of SOE. Could someone tell
> me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?
>
> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there complaining
> about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that SOE have introduced
> a patch to make it more difficult to solo. It's a really bizzare way to
> treat paying customers and I simply cant work it out.

They're adding more solo quests in the big patch, which is due out sometime this
month I think (it was supposed to be before Christmas, but then the server
screwup delayed everything).

Rich
January 5, 2005 8:14:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Cheddar wrote:

> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there
> complaining about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that
> SOE have introduced a patch to make it more difficult to solo.

I would be amazed too if they did that. But they didn't,
so I'm not. They made *group* mobs melee better
because they were trivial to level-appropriate *groups.*
If a *solo* player can reliably kill *group* mobs,
that means they're EASY for *groups.*

If you want to solo, solo *solo* mobs. Duh. There's
plenty out there. They do have the same loot tables,
it'll just take more kills. Which is appropriate -- after
all, there's six people looking for loot in a group
supposedly. More *solo* quests will be added
with the big patch -- 30 or 40 or so from what I've
seen.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 8:51:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Meaffwin wrote:

> Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
> area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures.

No kidding! My husband and I can comfortably duo yellow group mobs, so we
were very frustrated to find that there were so many frigging solo mobs
around the docks! And too far into the zone it became too tough for us at
29.

Until we discovered that they actually gave about 1/5 of the xp of group
mobs *and* we could kill 5 in the time it took to kill one group mob with
me not needing to heal at all...so it's all good.

Course, it left us with a quandry...do we "steal" mobs that are rightfully
meant for groups, or do we mow through mobs rightfully meant for soloers?
<:(  One of the downsides of being a group-mob-capable duo is that groups
don't even blink about moving into our space, because they assume we are
only doing solo mobs, and woe betide us if we ask they to respect us as
they'd respect another full group! (I got a nice "Take your powergamer
ways away from the RP server!" this morning when I asked them to stop
taking mobs we were setting up to engage. Meh.)


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jerelyn Foxeye -- http://www.foxeye-art.com

On Antonia Bayle (EQ):
[29 Iksar Templar] Viizanafyaeth Newleaf
[10 High Elf Brawler] Foxeye

On Order (Horizons):
[10 Monk/Druid Saris] Foxeye
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 8:53:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:06:56 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
wrotC:D RIVE_E

>Q.Will I be able to solo whenever I want to?
>
>A. Yes. We want players to enjoy themselves regardless of their preferred
>play style or how many hours a day they can log in. Our game has significant
>amounts of content designed for all classes to be able to solo at all
>levels, including quests, jobs assigned by NPCs, and areas where opponents
>can be fought solo rather than in a group.
>
>That is basically a pack of lies.

Nope.

There's not one word in it not true.

There are solo regions in the outdoor zones, and solo quests to take
advantage of them. The wholesaler tasks assigned by NPCs (the 'jobs')
are all soloable.

There are:
Solo quests (with more coming).
Solo jobs assigned by NPCs.
Areas where oppoenents can be fought solo.

All of those things exist. Every last one of them. Nothing in the
paragraph is a lie.

What it doesn't say -- and which people like to imagine it says -- is
'You will be able to experience the entire game if you solo'. You
won't. It says there's "significant content" -- not "ALL content".
('significant' is, of course, a weasel word, with no fixed meaning,
but I've seen plenty of solo areas in Antonica and the Steppes, and
ditto solo quests)


*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 9:11:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message
news:lgVCd.196970$Oc.48595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Cheddar wrote:
>
>> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there
>> complaining about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that
>> SOE have introduced a patch to make it more difficult to solo.
>
> I would be amazed too if they did that. But they didn't,
> so I'm not. They made *group* mobs melee better
> because they were trivial to level-appropriate *groups.*
> If a *solo* player can reliably kill *group* mobs,
> that means they're EASY for *groups.*

But solo players have no other option but to try and kill mob as they are
the ones that drop the loot. Without solo quests that give rewards, the solo
players are stuck in terms of advancement.

> If you want to solo, solo *solo* mobs. Duh. There's
> plenty out there. They do have the same loot tables,
> it'll just take more kills. Which is appropriate -- after
> all, there's six people looking for loot in a group
> supposedly. More *solo* quests will be added
> with the big patch -- 30 or 40 or so from what I've
> seen.

Well i'm not holding by breath. Even some of the supposedly solo quests in
the game already cannot be completed on your own.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 9:19:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Meaffwin" <suka_@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1104946062.725180.212970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Cheddar wrote:
>
>> When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo
> quests. By
>> the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.
>
> I'm guessing that you are taking this on hearsay and haven't tried it
> yourself, correct? I haven't spent much more time in TS than required
> to run to RoV, but in Nek there are solo creatures right at the CL
> zone, as well as the beach. You can find solo treants and bears also.
> There is a lot more grouped mobs, but there are solo ones also.
>
> Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
> area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures. Even after the
> patch that beefed critters up yesterday I am able to solo pretty
> readily there, and I get ripped to shreds in a toe-to-toe fight.
>
> There are plenty of places to solo, at least up as far as 36 so far,
> you just need to keep your eyes open and look for them.
>

I disagree. Solo monsters rarely drop chests which is why solo quests are
desperately needed for the solo player.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 9:23:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in
news:TdWCd.6504$5s1.818@fe33.usenetserver.com:

>
> "Meaffwin" <suka_@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1104946062.725180.212970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Cheddar wrote:
>>
>>> When you reach lvl 20 there is a HUGE drop in the amount of solo
>>> quests. By the time you are at lvl 30 you might as well forget it.
>>
>> I'm guessing that you are taking this on hearsay and haven't tried it
>> yourself, correct? I haven't spent much more time in TS than
>> required to run to RoV, but in Nek there are solo creatures right at
>> the CL zone, as well as the beach. You can find solo treants and
>> bears also. There is a lot more grouped mobs, but there are solo ones
>> also.
>>
>> Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
>> area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures. Even after
>> the patch that beefed critters up yesterday I am able to solo pretty
>> readily there, and I get ripped to shreds in a toe-to-toe fight.
>>
>> There are plenty of places to solo, at least up as far as 36 so far,
>> you just need to keep your eyes open and look for them.
>
> I disagree. Solo monsters rarely drop chests which is why solo quests
> are desperately needed for the solo player.
>

Chances of getting chests seem to be about equal, per actual mob killed
of getting a chest from group or solo mobs. It seems rare soloing, but
consider, in a group there are up to 6 people who are sharing those
chests, while soloing there is just one person getting the chest. My
experience up to level 20 anyway, seems to show that I get about the same
number of chest drops where I get something from it whether grouped or
soloing.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 20 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 10:26:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Timothy J. Trace" <tim@tcsys.nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:39snt0tiunqedtu4kgmnoqi8ts4qloem04@4ax.com...
> Careful, or this thread will derail into a world-class bitch session. You
can make some
> of the people happy some of the time........
>
> ........but some of the people will never be happy, period.
>
> >Could someone tell me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?
>
> During the summer of 2004, SOE held a player/developer summit, wherein they
discussed the
> direction of EQL at length and took suggestions for improving the game.
Many* of those
> player suggestions have since appeared in the gameworld, always clearly
marked in the
> relevant patch message.

*You spelled 'A few of the unimportant ones' wrong, btw.

--
Simond
"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your
slave." - Jareth the Goblin King, Labyrinth
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 5, 2005 10:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:26:20 -0000, "Simond"
<apocalypsecow@spamfilterdeletemeplease.dsl.pipex.net> wrote:

>*You spelled 'A few of the unimportant ones' wrong, btw.

LOL, too funny!
January 5, 2005 11:45:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Cheddar wrote:

> But solo players have no other option but to try and kill mob as they
> are the ones that drop the loot.

No, they aren't. The best drop I've gotten so far (level 29
Fury Adept) came from a solo mob, as did the Bootstrutter's
quest drop and tons of other ones. No, they're not as
common. But you're not competing for five other players
for the actual drop, either...

> Without solo quests that give rewards, the solo players are stuck in terms
> of advancement.

No, it's just slower. Welcome to Everquest...

> Even some of the supposedly solo
> quests in the game already cannot be completed on your own.

I've yet to find a solo quest I couldn't solo. Certain quests
are GROUP quests even though they're for your character.
The entire AQ series, for example. Just because the reward
is for your character doesn't mean it's designed to be done
solo...
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 1:06:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
news:KbQCd.18336$332.11337@fe19.usenetserver.com...
> I never played EQ1 so i'm not sure of the history of SOE. Could someone
tell
> me if SOE actual take players opinions into account?
>
They had a summit, but I think it was more people from the high end guilds
that were in on it.
A few ideas from the summit were implemented.

> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there complaining
> about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that SOE have
introduced
> a patch to make it more difficult to solo. It's a really bizzare way to
> treat paying customers and I simply cant work it out.

They have more solo content coming up in the big patch. It probably would
have been up and running by now if not for the big crash.
It is expected some time in January.



--
eq2.najena.Simonette
eq2.najena.Floriana
eq.bristlebane.Simonette
eq.bristlebane.Agapanthus
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 2:41:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote in message
news:amrot055gv0edugn7fa4m6sbld700bpnfk@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:06:56 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
> wrotC:D RIVE_E
>
>>Q.Will I be able to solo whenever I want to?
>>
>>A. Yes. We want players to enjoy themselves regardless of their preferred
>>play style or how many hours a day they can log in. Our game has
>>significant
>>amounts of content designed for all classes to be able to solo at all
>>levels, including quests, jobs assigned by NPCs, and areas where opponents
>>can be fought solo rather than in a group.
>>
>>That is basically a pack of lies.
>
> Nope.
>
> There's not one word in it not true.
>
> There are solo regions in the outdoor zones, and solo quests to take
> advantage of them. The wholesaler tasks assigned by NPCs (the 'jobs')
> are all soloable.

Where are the solo regions in Antonica?

> There are:
> Solo quests (with more coming).
> Solo jobs assigned by NPCs.
> Areas where oppoenents can be fought solo.
>
> All of those things exist. Every last one of them. Nothing in the
> paragraph is a lie.

Where exactly are these solo regions then?

> What it doesn't say -- and which people like to imagine it says -- is
> 'You will be able to experience the entire game if you solo'. You
> won't. It says there's "significant content" -- not "ALL content".
> ('significant' is, of course, a weasel word, with no fixed meaning,
> but I've seen plenty of solo areas in Antonica and the Steppes, and
> ditto solo quests)

I disagree, the quests for solo players putside the city are few and far
between.

Name me ten solo quests a mid level player (15) can do on his own in
Antonica, then name another ten a mid-high (17+) solo player can do in
Antonica on his own.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 2:41:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:41:17 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
wrotC:D RIVE_E


>
>Where are the solo regions in Antonica?
>

I have done most of my teens soloing in the area around Gnollslayers
-- wolves, bears, and the like. I then moved to the Oracle Tower
->Windstalker regions --thicket lizards, basilisks, more bears,
vipers, Calthoris mages, knights, and clerics, those stalker things.
You can also solo gnoll battlers behind Ardent Needle.

I'd say I earned 75% of my level 15-20 XP soloing in Antonica. There's
plenty of places to fight if you bother to look. Of course, it's
easier to whine on a message board that there isn't a magic pixie who
leads you to every single soloable creature in the game. Perhaps
they'll add that feature.

>> There are:
>> Solo quests (with more coming).
>> Solo jobs assigned by NPCs.
>> Areas where oppoenents can be fought solo.
>>
>> All of those things exist. Every last one of them. Nothing in the
>> paragraph is a lie.
>
>Where exactly are these solo regions then?
>

See above.


>Name me ten solo quests a mid level player (15) can do on his own in
>Antonica, then name another ten a mid-high (17+) solo player can do in
>Antonica on his own.
>
>

Ten? A bit much. :)  You're asking for twenty quests over a three-level
period. I did primarily guild writs for the local wildlife. You can
also do highwaymen when they go green, and anything involving killing
Calthoris critters. Any of your tradeskill quests can also be soloed.
I'm currently doing the Steppes, so those quests are fresher in my
mind. There's the Book of Three Keys quest (something like that, can't
remember the name) you get in the mage tower, the kill 25 undead
settlers quest you can get in the docks (go all the way to the back),
the infinitely repeatable Trapper Borgus and 'finishing the job'
quests, and probably a lot more I haven't found yet. Plenty of people
want you to whack beetles, birds, snakes, crabs, and the like -- you
just need to look for them. Or check out Allakhazams.

You can also solo the catalog and tour quests. And, of course, the
collection quests, which can have very nice rewards.

The blurp you quoted said there WERE quests -- it didn't say how many.
Yes, solo quests are sparse, but they are not non-existent, and a lot
more are being added RSN. Many city tasks can be soloed repeatedly --
no XP, but status point rewards which can be helpful.

So, in short, you have yet to find a 'lie' anywhere in the blurp.
Unless you can find me an official Sony quote which specified a
specific NUMBER of quests for solo players. Got one?
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
January 6, 2005 3:54:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> writes:

> "Timothy J. Trace" <tim@tcsys.nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ja2ot0lecvpc53j9afdlr52qpbkhc33jbp@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:10:02 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote:
> >
> >>It's basically the major areas of the gameplay that seem to have problems,
> >>such as crafting, selling and the obvious forced grouping that SOE seem
> >>obsessed with.
> >
> > I cannot speak knowledgeably about complaints #1 and #2, but what's this
> > about "obvious
> > forced grouping?"
>
> Well the latest patch has made it even more difficult to solo mob groups.
> This coupled with the fact that it's very rare that a solo creature will
> drop a chest makes it very difficult to improve your character at higher
> levels.

Timothy is talking about Everquest, you are talking about Everquest 2.
I think this will lead to confusion...

Anyway, if you want to improve your character, there are lots of
crafters who will be happy to sell you equipment, as well as groupers
who have gotten nice drops they don't need. As a soloer you will
never get as good equipment as someone who groups, but in my
experience the big money is to be made from harvesting and selling the
results, which is a solo endeavour, so it should be possible to do
fairly well.


> Also the lack of solo quests at higher levels also forces people to group as
> there's no other way of ganing experience.

Except, of course, killing solo mobs and doing solo quests... I can't
speak for above level 26, but so far there are quite a few quests to
do solo, a number of them even repeatable. Also quests never grey
out, so you can do quests that involve grey encounters once they
become soloable and still get the reward, though they may no longer be
worth the effort.


> I'm not asking for them to be made easier, though I think it's taking the
> piss that they made them harder. I'm simply asking for more solo quests that
> can be completed on your own. There are way to many quests that are supposed
> to be solo yet it turns out are impossible to complete on your own.

I haven't seen many quests that started out as obviously solo quests
and then turned out to require a group - the only one that comes to
mind is Tinkerer Spindlecog's quest, which starts with killing two
kinds of solo mobs and then turns out to require kill tide octopi,
which are group mobs. It would be nice if quests were marked group or
solo though, so one could tell in advance.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 12:36:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote in message
news:v90pt09cfr2hgtiap8esglbb3d1hbv4bd6@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:41:17 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
> wrotC:D RIVE_E
>
>
>>
>>Where are the solo regions in Antonica?
>>
>
> I have done most of my teens soloing in the area around Gnollslayers
> -- wolves, bears, and the like. I then moved to the Oracle Tower
> ->Windstalker regions --thicket lizards, basilisks, more bears,
> vipers, Calthoris mages, knights, and clerics, those stalker things.
> You can also solo gnoll battlers behind Ardent Needle.
>
> I'd say I earned 75% of my level 15-20 XP soloing in Antonica. There's
> plenty of places to fight if you bother to look. Of course, it's
> easier to whine on a message board that there isn't a magic pixie who
> leads you to every single soloable creature in the game. Perhaps
> they'll add that feature.
>
>>> There are:
>>> Solo quests (with more coming).
>>> Solo jobs assigned by NPCs.
>>> Areas where oppoenents can be fought solo.
>>>
>>> All of those things exist. Every last one of them. Nothing in the
>>> paragraph is a lie.
>>
>>Where exactly are these solo regions then?
>>
>
> See above.
>
>
>>Name me ten solo quests a mid level player (15) can do on his own in
>>Antonica, then name another ten a mid-high (17+) solo player can do in
>>Antonica on his own.
>>
>>
>
> Ten? A bit much. :)  You're asking for twenty quests over a three-level
> period. I did primarily guild writs for the local wildlife.

So that discounts people who dont have time for guilds. I actually think 10
is a very low number, I can easily name 10 quests that you need a group to
complete.

>You can
> also do highwaymen when they go green, and anything involving killing
> Calthoris critters.

These are not quests.

>Any of your tradeskill quests can also be soloed.

I'm sorry but again, I wouldnt class making items (some of which have
nothing to do with your profession, still bugged!) as a quest.

> I'm currently doing the Steppes, so those quests are fresher in my
> mind. There's the Book of Three Keys quest (something like that, can't
> remember the name) you get in the mage tower, the kill 25 undead
> settlers quest you can get in the docks (go all the way to the back),
> the infinitely repeatable Trapper Borgus and 'finishing the job'
> quests, and probably a lot more I haven't found yet. Plenty of people
> want you to whack beetles, birds, snakes, crabs, and the like -- you
> just need to look for them. Or check out Allakhazams.
>
> You can also solo the catalog and tour quests. And, of course, the
> collection quests, which can have very nice rewards.
>
> The blurp you quoted said there WERE quests -- it didn't say how many.
> Yes, solo quests are sparse, but they are not non-existent, and a lot
> more are being added RSN. Many city tasks can be soloed repeatedly --
> no XP, but status point rewards which can be helpful.
>
> So, in short, you have yet to find a 'lie' anywhere in the blurp.
> Unless you can find me an official Sony quote which specified a
> specific NUMBER of quests for solo players. Got one?

SoE stated that there would be significant number of quests. Sorry I still
completely disagree with this.

I still have a quest book full of quests that I simply cannot do by myself.
I have tried to find quests that I can solo but so far no joy. What I have
found is that a lot of the early quests can be soloed at later levels. The
problem with this is that by the time this happens the monsters are grey and
the reward isnt relavent to your level.

Look, I dont want to get into a argument. What I would like to see happen is
for SoE to add more content for the players who only have a hour each day to
play rather than ignore us and try to force everyone to group together to do
everything.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 12:36:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:36:39 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
wrotC:D RIVE_E

>>You can
>> also do highwaymen when they go green, and anything involving killing
>> Calthoris critters.
>
>These are not quests.
>

Actually, they are. There's a 'kill 15 highwyamen' quest you get from
a wanted poster, and I'm pretty sure there's 'kill random undead' or
'kil calthoris(blah)' quests. That's why I mentioned them.

>>Any of your tradeskill quests can also be soloed.
>
>I'm sorry but again, I wouldnt class making items (some of which have
>nothing to do with your profession, still bugged!) as a quest.

Those are the 'jobs' referred to in the passage you posted.

BTW, writs can be done without a guild. They gain you personal status
points, so you can buy certain items and get a reduced rent on the
'cool' houses.

*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 1:09:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Hello all

First a little background..I have played EQ2 since launch and currently have
a 22 Swashbuckler. I have soloed a good number of quests and enjoy the
challenge of doing so. Yes I have died a good number of times..but the
satisfaction of completing the quest overrides that. There are times that
another character or a guildmate has offered to help..help I readily
accepted..I'm no dummy. Yes there are some quests that you need a good,
well balanced group to do..and those are fun as well.

The trick to soloing for me is libral use of my heroic opportunities and the
knowledge how best to use my character's skills.

I think that the people who are looking for something that EQ2 does not give
them should move on to another game, continue to send SOE messages about
improvements they would like, or..if they are going to continue to play
EQ2..stop whining and play the game.

just my 2 cents,

Dave
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 2:59:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
news:zF7Dd.13504$fi3.13485@fe66.usenetserver.com...
>
> Look, I dont want to get into a argument. What I would like to see happen is
> for SoE to add more content for the players who only have a hour each day to
> play rather than ignore us and try to force everyone to group together to do
> everything.

From the patch notes for todays update:

- Tons of new quests, mostly for solo players!

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...

Rich
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 2:59:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:59:22 -0000, "Richard Wingrove"
<rich@privacy.net> wrotC:D RIVE_E

>
>"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
>news:zF7Dd.13504$fi3.13485@fe66.usenetserver.com...
>>
>> Look, I dont want to get into a argument. What I would like to see happen is
>> for SoE to add more content for the players who only have a hour each day to
>> play rather than ignore us and try to force everyone to group together to do
>> everything.
>
>From the patch notes for todays update:
>

The "big patch" went in today? Nothing about it on the board...haven't
tried logging in.

> - Tons of new quests, mostly for solo players!
>
>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...
>
>Rich
>

*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 4:46:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote in message
news:quaqt0ppf0t4avmdlt5c8r1f20kev9oao5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:59:22 -0000, "Richard Wingrove"
> <rich@privacy.net> wrotC:D RIVE_E
>
> >
> >"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
> >news:zF7Dd.13504$fi3.13485@fe66.usenetserver.com...
> >>
> >> Look, I dont want to get into a argument. What I would like to see happen
is
> >> for SoE to add more content for the players who only have a hour each day
to
> >> play rather than ignore us and try to force everyone to group together to
do
> >> everything.
> >
> >From the patch notes for todays update:
> >
>
> The "big patch" went in today? Nothing about it on the board...haven't
> tried logging in.

Not in yet, but at the server downtime at 7am PST. Estimated 3 hour downtime.

It's mentioned in an update to the 'Status of the big patch' post.
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...

Rich
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 5:21:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:14:57 GMT in
<lgVCd.196970$Oc.48595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, "Wolfie"
<dbgbdwolf@gte.net> graced the world with this thought:

>If you want to solo, solo *solo* mobs. Duh. There's
>plenty out there. They do have the same loot tables,
>it'll just take more kills.

Do I understand this to mean that you need to kill more solo mobs to
get the same experience that a group does for killing one group mob?
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 5:21:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:21:04 GMT, bizbee <tuberoo@earthlink.net>
wrotC:D RIVE_E

>Do I understand this to mean that you need to kill more solo mobs to
>get the same experience that a group does for killing one group mob?

I believe that's how it works. Otherwise, groups would kill solo mobs
-- they could kill them much faster and with less risk.

You'll note that in group encounters, you usually see 'You get bonus
experience for defeating this encounter!'. You get this if you're in a
group or if you kill a 'group' mob solo. (This makes green group mobs
good for solo players. I can usually defeat up to green++ encounters
solo, and could probably do blue++ if I had better gear and upgrades.)
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 5:51:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>> The "big patch" went in today? Nothing about it on the board...haven't
>> tried logging in.
>
> Not in yet, but at the server downtime at 7am PST. Estimated 3 hour
> downtime.
>
> It's mentioned in an update to the 'Status of the big patch' post.
> http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?bo...
>

Nice list of fixes there :-)

Can anyone see if they fixed the fall attribute so you can jump of cliffs
etc without hurting yourself. I really want to try this.

I'm been crafting for the last week but now it looks like time to grab my
bow and go adventuring again.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 6:36:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in
news:o X_Cd.23286$8e5.2523@fe79.usenetserver.com:

>
> "Lizard" <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote in message
> news:amrot055gv0edugn7fa4m6sbld700bpnfk@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:06:56 -0000, "Cheddar" <me@there.net>
>> wrotC:D RIVE_E
>>
>>>Q.Will I be able to solo whenever I want to?
>>>
>>>A. Yes. We want players to enjoy themselves regardless of their
>>>preferred play style or how many hours a day they can log in. Our
>>>game has significant amounts of content designed for all classes to
>>>be able to solo at all levels, including quests, jobs assigned by
>>>NPCs, and areas where opponents can be fought solo rather than in a
>>>group.
>>>
>>>That is basically a pack of lies.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> There's not one word in it not true.
>>
>> There are solo regions in the outdoor zones, and solo quests to take
>> advantage of them. The wholesaler tasks assigned by NPCs (the 'jobs')
>> are all soloable.
>
> Where are the solo regions in Antonica?

Well, I find solo mobs in most parts of Antonica, where in particular
depends on your level.

>
>> There are:
>> Solo quests (with more coming).
>> Solo jobs assigned by NPCs.
>> Areas where oppoenents can be fought solo.
>>
>> All of those things exist. Every last one of them. Nothing in the
>> paragraph is a lie.
>
> Where exactly are these solo regions then?

Answered.

>
>> What it doesn't say -- and which people like to imagine it says -- is
>> 'You will be able to experience the entire game if you solo'. You
>> won't. It says there's "significant content" -- not "ALL content".
>> ('significant' is, of course, a weasel word, with no fixed meaning,
>> but I've seen plenty of solo areas in Antonica and the Steppes, and
>> ditto solo quests)
>
> I disagree, the quests for solo players putside the city are few and
> far between.
>
> Name me ten solo quests a mid level player (15) can do on his own in
> Antonica, then name another ten a mid-high (17+) solo player can do in
> Antonica on his own.
>

I have been spending most of my time crafting and levelling to 20 so I
could start on my AQ quests, so have not done a huge number of quests
lately, just too lazy to search around for them.

There are a variety of collection quests that exist in most zones. There
are wholesaler tasks which do not generally require any fighting at all,
just access to the appropriate tier zones, and high enough harvesting
skills. There are at least a couple of quests in Thundering Steppes that
require killing mobs that you can find either solo or group tagged. That
is just off the top of my head.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 20 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 6:42:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

bizbee <tuberoo@earthlink.net> wrote in news:kPbDd.2056$v76.342
@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:14:57 GMT in
> <lgVCd.196970$Oc.48595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, "Wolfie"
> <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> graced the world with this thought:
>
>>If you want to solo, solo *solo* mobs. Duh. There's
>>plenty out there. They do have the same loot tables, it'll just take
>>more kills.
>
> Do I understand this to mean that you need to kill more solo mobs to
> get the same experience that a group does for killing one group mob?

In general, yes.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 20 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
January 6, 2005 6:51:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

bizbee wrote:
> "Wolfie" graced the world with this thought:
>
>> If you want to solo, solo *solo* mobs. Duh. There's
>> plenty out there. They do have the same loot tables,
>> it'll just take more kills.
>
> Do I understand this to mean that you need to kill more
> solo mobs to get the same experience that a group does
> for killing one group mob?

That's not what I meant, but yes, that's true. Otherwise
groups would kill solo content. As well as the level of
the mob, EQ2 uses the group indicator and up/down
indicators for cons. Group mobs are always tougher
than solo mobs of the same level and therefore give
more XP.

But what I meant was there's a myth that you need to
kill group mobs to get the better drops (from treasure
chests dropped when the mob(s) die.) That's not
true -- solo and group mobs have (other than some
quest items) the same loot tables, with the drop rate
for group mobs being higher so each player in a
group has about the same chance of actually getting
a drop as a solo player and vice versa. If 1 in 2
group mobs drop chests, a drop rate of 1 in 12
from solo mobs would be equal -- since groups, in
theory, have six players sharing loot....
January 6, 2005 8:08:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
news:o 5WCd.6485$5s1.2891@fe33.usenetserver.com...
>
> "Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:lgVCd.196970$Oc.48595@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> > Cheddar wrote:
> >
> >> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there
> >> complaining about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that
> >> SOE have introduced a patch to make it more difficult to solo.
> >
> > I would be amazed too if they did that. But they didn't,
> > so I'm not. They made *group* mobs melee better
> > because they were trivial to level-appropriate *groups.*
> > If a *solo* player can reliably kill *group* mobs,
> > that means they're EASY for *groups.*
>
> But solo players have no other option but to try and kill mob as they are
> the ones that drop the loot. Without solo quests that give rewards, the
solo
> players are stuck in terms of advancement.

You keep saying this but it just isn't so.
My mains (24 necro) best drops have been while soloing in Nektulos Forest.
I got a Master1 drop from a *solo* crab on the beach, and I got 2 palladium
clusters while harvesting. Any one of these items is worth more than all the
drops I have gotten till now while grouping.

Stryker
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 6, 2005 8:51:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:D 8dDd.217004$6w6.130898
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> bizbee wrote:
>> "Wolfie" graced the world with this thought:
>>
>>> If you want to solo, solo *solo* mobs. Duh. There's
>>> plenty out there. They do have the same loot tables, it'll just
>>> take more kills.
>>
>> Do I understand this to mean that you need to kill more
>> solo mobs to get the same experience that a group does for killing one
>> group mob?
>
> That's not what I meant, but yes, that's true. Otherwise
> groups would kill solo content. As well as the level of
> the mob, EQ2 uses the group indicator and up/down
> indicators for cons. Group mobs are always tougher
> than solo mobs of the same level and therefore give
> more XP.
>
> But what I meant was there's a myth that you need to
> kill group mobs to get the better drops (from treasure
> chests dropped when the mob(s) die.) That's not
> true -- solo and group mobs have (other than some
> quest items) the same loot tables, with the drop rate
> for group mobs being higher so each player in a
> group has about the same chance of actually getting
> a drop as a solo player and vice versa. If 1 in 2
> group mobs drop chests, a drop rate of 1 in 12
> from solo mobs would be equal -- since groups, in
> theory, have six players sharing loot....
>

It's more like 1 in 2 group encounters, not mobs I believe, but the
general gist is correct.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 20 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
January 7, 2005 4:21:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> writes:

> But what I meant was there's a myth that you need to
> kill group mobs to get the better drops (from treasure
> chests dropped when the mob(s) die.) That's not
> true -- solo and group mobs have (other than some
> quest items) the same loot tables

That's not quite true, either, IME - in a given zone, they may have
the same loot tables, but the best loot comes from dungeon zones that
often have either no solo encounters at all (Stormhold is like this, I
think), or the solo encounters are hidden beyond lots and lots of
aggro group encounters (Crypt of Betrayal is an example). And then
there are nameds, which are (always?) group encounters and have better
loot tables.

At least I've never seen anything comparable to e.g. the fused steel
gear from Stormhold drop from non-nameds in Thundering Steppes, and
I've killed quite a few giants there.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 7, 2005 10:07:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest, misc.misc (More info?)

Foxeye Vaeltaja wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Meaffwin wrote:
>
> > Once you hit 25 and get EL access (which will require a group), the
> > area near the docks are loaded with soloable creatures.
>
> No kidding! My husband and I can comfortably duo yellow group mobs,
so we
> were very frustrated to find that there were so many frigging solo
mobs
> around the docks! And too far into the zone it became too tough for
us at
> 29.

Wait, so there are monsters that are particularly tailored to fight as
groups and to fight solo? Are they marked as such? Are they the same
level, only one is more dangerous, or is the group mob a group mob only
because it is a higher level?
January 7, 2005 6:17:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,misc.misc (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Wait, so there are monsters that are particularly tailored to fight as
> groups and to fight solo?

Yes.

> Are they marked as such?

Yes.

> Are they the same level, only one is more dangerous,

Yes - or simply multiple mobs which can't be pulled
seperately.

> or is the group mob a group mob only because it is a
> higher level?

No, although quite a few group mobs are marked as
undercons.

In general, group encounters are one of two kinds:
either a group of mobs which can't be pulled one
at a time; or a single mob marked as an undercon
for its level.
January 8, 2005 6:30:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there complaining
> about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that SOE have
introduced
> a patch to make it more difficult to solo. It's a really bizzare way to
> treat paying customers and I simply cant work it out.

So what's the big deal with having a game that supports grouping? It is,
after all, "multiplayer." If you want to solo, play a single player game
where everything is soloable and you don't have to pay a monthly fee.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 9, 2005 10:13:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 15:30:46 -0800, "bob" <dlv88@comcast.net> wrote:

>> I'm amazed that with all the annoyed solo players out there complaining
>> about the lack of solo content and forced grouping that SOE have
>introduced
>> a patch to make it more difficult to solo. It's a really bizzare way to
>> treat paying customers and I simply cant work it out.
>
>So what's the big deal with having a game that supports grouping? It is,
>after all, "multiplayer." If you want to solo, play a single player game
>where everything is soloable and you don't have to pay a monthly fee.
>
Because multiplayer means there are multiple players. It does not mean
that everyone is grouped together. I do get tired of the BS that
soloers can't play a multiplayer game. What if they like the social
interaction of chatting with others? Some people like to solo and some
like to group. It's their choice which they do and at what time. It is
a big area and a player can solo or group as they want. Solors won't
get the best drops, ie like the items that can drop from a boss mob,
but they can get good drops at times.

Solo content is out there, maybe not as much and as easy to find but
I've never had a problem finding some into the mid 20s when I soloed.
It might not be in every zone but there are a few solo mobs into the
mid 20s in Antonica so you just have to put more effort into looking
if you want to solo all the time.

--
Wulfbones Gnome Cleric Qeynos Antonia Bayle
Wulfrunner Gnome Predator Qeynos Antonia Bayle
WUlfkiller Gnome Warrior Qeynos Antonia Bayle
Wulffy Gnome Summoner Qeynos Antonia Bayle

Wulfbones
January 11, 2005 10:52:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Unk wrote:
> "Vladesch" <vladeschxxxx@bigxxxxxpond.net.auxxx> wrote in
> news:AbSCd.104945$K7.83077@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
>
>>>Did they do this with EQ1?
>>>
>>
>>This is EXACTLY what they did in eq1, and why I wont go near another
>
> SOE
>
>>game.
>
>
> It boggles the mind that people continue to complain about EQ2 being
> group friendly. That's what game has been designed for and promoted as
> from day one. The same thing with EQ1, in that case they pushed it even
> more in the beginning as a group oriented game when it came out, yet
> people to this day are still complaining that it's a group oriented game
> and it's tough soloing. Double duh!
>
> I solo and it's tough a lot of the time, but that's how the game was
> written. It's not a democracy where people playing it get to design it
> according to their own wants and needs. But that sure doesn't stop them
> from trying over and over and over and over for years.

"It's not a democracy" So you are saying user input and requests for
features that these paying customers want to see are not appropriate?
I'm glad you are not in management at SOE or any other MMO company for
that matter.

As far as I am concerned customers of any product or service have every
right to tell the companies they fork over their hard earned cash to
exactly what they want for their money. I don't operate a business
myself but that approach to paying customers seems like a pretty
fundamental thing to me, within reason obviously. I mean, if 299,999
account holders are pleased there is no real option for solo play and
one account holder has a real problem with that, well then the best that
can be done is to wish that person well and suggest another game like
say, WoW.

But that is not the case here. A lot of people like the option to play
solo sometimes and some even want to do it all of the time. So what? Why
not let them? That just makes more customers happy and that generates
more sales and more profits. What exactly is the problem with giving
paying customers what they want for their money?

A criticism I often read in regards to those who like to solo in MMOs is
what are they doing playing an MMO at all if they want to play by
themselves? Well, the answer is pretty simple really. There are no
single player worlds in existence that can compare to the vast worlds in
MMOs. Is there any game the with the size, scope and complexity of
EverQuest available in the realm of single player RPGs? No, there is
not. Secondly, I think some people who like to solo still enjoy being in
a world that is populated by other real people and not just entirely
computer controlled npcs.

The more flexible a game of this kind can be in terms of pleasing the
largest number of potential players, the better I say. I understand WoW
allows it's players to go solo or group as they please and in all cases
to be able to actually get something done and have fun regardless of
whether they are grouped or not. Good for them! Yeah, EverQuest II could
take a lesson from WoW here in my opinion.

--
Get Thunderbird - Reclaim Your Inbox
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Get Firefox! - The Browser You Can Trust
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
January 11, 2005 5:38:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Michael <NOSPAM_Lin_mukai@comcast.net> wrote:
> As far as I am concerned customers of any product or service have every
> right to tell the companies they fork over their hard earned cash to
> exactly what they want for their money. I don't operate a business
> myself but that approach to paying customers seems like a pretty
> fundamental thing to me, within reason obviously. I mean, if 299,999
> account holders are pleased there is no real option for solo play and
> one account holder has a real problem with that, well then the best that
> can be done is to wish that person well and suggest another game like
> say, WoW.

Though I do think a business should pay attention to their customers it
must not be without questioning the consumers ideas. Let's exaggerate a
bit here. Assume you play chess and always play white. The rules say a
pawn is weaker than any other piece on the board and only can move
forward. You may find yourself where you wish you could move the pawn
one step back but the rules prohibit that. So you complain about this
rule at the manufacturer. If they get alot of complaints and the majority
stems from players exclusivly playing white they might figure there is a
slight disadvantage for white pieces. So they allow white pawns to step
backwards to compensate for that.

Surely black is set up to loose then. So they complain in return and so on
and on.

Sure I know that chess is perfectly balanced as white and black command
the same pieces with same limitations. It was just to emphasize my
point. And this point is there are rules for any game. And how to
advance whithin these rules is up to the player. And one way to become
better at any game is understanding these rules. You could complain
about some nearly impossible to beat obstacles or you could try to fight
them.

If the company is going to change the rules do you think this
truly will benefit the game? I don't. Especially as these proposed
changes often are just tailored for one single occasion.

So no, I don't think a company should provide everything the customer
asks just because he is a customer. They should listen. If they deem it
ok they will implement it! Otherwise they must not.


Hagen
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