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Will I need an extra UPS?

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December 29, 2004 4:22:34 AM

I currently have the following:

Athlon XP 1.4GHZ (Palomino type, around 64W)
512MB DDR2100
WD 80GB 8MB 7200RPM drive
LG 16*10*40
geForce 3 Ti200 64MB
Epox 8KHA+ KT266A
SB Live!
Floppy drive
Antec NeoPower 480W PSU
D-Link DFE530TX 10/100 NIC card
D-Link DI-624 802.11g router
Samsung 17" 753DF Flat CRT. The manufacturer rates it at 80W. (is that reasonable for a 17" when websites report an average of 110W for most CRTs?)

and am looking to upgrade to the following:

-CPU -> At least an Athlon 64 3500+, preferably of the Winchester kind. THG reports a "supposed" 33W MAXIMUM power consumption at LOAD for that CPU. Now how believable is that is beyond my knowledge, but to be on the safe side, let us assume it still consumed as much as my current, therefore 64W.
-RAM -> 1GB DDR400 in dual channel
-PCI-E motherboard, may be nF4, or whatever.
-High end video card, may end up with the X850XT PE, currently probably the most power consuming video card for desktop. Check out THG's review for power consumption info on it.
-Dual Layer DVD burner, will keep the CD burner as well. This is currently the only "additional" component to the whole system, and does not act as an upgrade.

I currently run my system on an APC Back-UPS 650VA and it has been working well so far. We are talking about at least 7 minutes of backup runtime.

Now, this is where I am worried:
After seeing the specs for the above system upgrade, do you believe it will still be able to stand on the 650VA? We are talking about a CPU that MIGHT be consuming more power, but may actually run with less if the 0.09m reports are true. We are also talking about a doubling of RAM capacity, the usage of a PCI-E mainboard, a MUCH hotter video card (I am guessing at least 60W more) and a DVD burner which I know little of their power consumption except that they DO require a good amount.

If this system in total with the monitor would cause an overload in your opinion (keep in mind 650VA is about 400W), do you believe transfering the monitor to a new 350VA UPS (currently only 60$ CDN, which wouldn't set me back much really and I don't mind) would solve the issue? In other words, would this new system completely fit the 400W capacity of the UPS if we excluded the monitor? It is clear it currently can, and definitely isn't near 400W (it ran on a 300W PSU before, and including the monitor gave at least 7 minutes backup runtime).

Any information is much appreciated.
I had first tried APC's support, but I think the rep was trying to sell me what I didn't really need, such as the XS1000VA SmartUPS that costs a freakin' load, about 600$ CDN, far be it from even needed (SmartUPS' are a whole other brand over the BackUPS kinds, whilst the latter at 1000VA would've cost me 200$ CDN, which is for the RS model), and it definitely did not address my concerns really. (amongst others, when to start thinking of replacing the battery and how to handle it when disposing of it)

Thanks in advance yall,

Ede

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More about : extra ups

December 29, 2004 9:38:43 PM

You will definatly need a new UPS. If you hooked up your machine to your current ups it would probably scream and shut off from over draw :) 
The belkin UPSs don't offer the luxury of battery replacement but they are pretty damned good for the price. I got my 1200VA belkin for about $130 USD at staples. It is currently powering my entire pentium machine, monitor, pump and all. I got a 1500VA APC from staples for my servers and it was about $180 USD. That ain't bad but I don't know where you can get deals like that in canada.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
December 29, 2004 11:57:28 PM

<A HREF="http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/1500AVR-HO.htm" target="_new"> CyberPower 1500VA </A>

I got this from NewEgg, it is around $135
It gives me nearly an hour of backup protection, has surge protection for network, cable, and phone plus a line conditioner.

This is an awesome deal, and beat the pants off APC's prices.

Quality unit with no flaws that I find.


<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
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a b ) Power supply
December 31, 2004 9:14:36 PM

Hi Vic! Happy New Year to you buddy!!!

Check out <A HREF="http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/" target="_new">this website,</A> it will help you make your decision! Ry

I'm 4ryan6 and I approved this message!
January 3, 2005 4:29:07 AM

Nice site man!

It rated my next system at 351W.

I honestly wonder why the first poster here gave me a rather pessimistic outlook on the system.

Seems like my UPS will last through this. Considering the website's claims are the maximum possible consumption for the hardware used (and that means possibly the Winchester which consumes far less than the TDP of 89W of the Athlon 64 rated on that website), and my usage of extremes (such as the A64 with the TDP of 89W and the video card at over 105W) to leave room for any possibilities or unpredictable changes, seems like the 400W UPS may just be allowed an extra chance.

It also rates my current system at around 226W (or needing a minimum of that much from a PSU). That would explain the good amount of runtime from the 650VA UPS. (BTW the monitor is also hooked up to a backup plug, so that means I should add 90W or so, which makes my UPS' load at around 310W).

I plan to either go for an extra 350VA for the monitor, or simply hook it to a surge protect plug and spare the system the backup of the monitor and keep extra juice flowing. That 90W will be needed anyways for the new system.

Assuming the Winchesters or even the average A64 won't even touch 89W, (the former would even run at 30W less than my AXP) and that the figures are quite conservative (strict), then this UPS would be adequate to support at least a minute, without any overload issues, would you not agree Ryan?

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The <b><A HREF="http://snipurl.com/bl3t" target="_new"><font color=red>THGC Photo Album</font color=red></A></b>, send in your pics, get your own webpage and view other members' sites.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 01/03/05 01:35 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 3, 2005 4:32:34 AM

I work at Staples so I know those prices quite well, save for the 1500VA one, which even the website does not show (for the Canadian one anyways).

But I'm gonna be short on cash after the PC upgrade, so contemplating a new UPS except for a 350VA base one for just the monitor is simply not preferable.

After the power supply wattage calculator, I honestly do not know why you think the UPS will overload. Can you find a point of reference to prove this?

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January 3, 2005 4:35:31 AM

That's a very nice indeed, and quite a lot of power under the hood. Would contemplate it if I had no purchases to come, and if it were sold around here (I prefer local purchases over online for such things). I admit I'm partial to APC for their renowned quality and reliability, but with enough nudging I could go for something else. :wink:

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January 3, 2005 4:56:49 AM

I don't know, I think you can give or take quite a bit on that calculator. I've always gone for the better safe than sorry route since I bought a 500VA ups for one of my old servers and it couldn't handle it. It was only a Dual PIII 450 w/ 256mb of pc100 and a 9gb scsi drive. It was a nice APC too.
I'm thinking about getting a 1500va for my desktop machine because my current 1200va is barely holding on. I tried to plug a little 5port switch into it the other day and that was just enough to make it overload.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
January 3, 2005 10:05:37 AM

I assure you CyberPower UPS are of good quality.

You know you can test the one you have, just unplug it with computer on, and see if everything works.
That is the best test for the record. And should be done even with new ones, to make sure everything is working right.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
January 3, 2005 7:06:03 PM

Overloading doesn't happen anytime the UPS is on and the system is on too? Or does it require a power outage to confirm?

What I'm also worried about is permanent damage to UPS from overload, unless I can know within a few seconds and intervene.

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January 3, 2005 7:09:48 PM

You must have had some serious bad luck if a 500VA wasn't enough for those old CPUs. Unless SCSI drives really churn out a lot of power, then I have no clue how 2 Dual P3s at only 450MHZ drew that much. Not to mention the RAM itself is much less power hungry than modern DDR.

And for 1200VA which is way above the average needed for a high end system, I have to say you ain't getting a good break there man. I guess server systems are much more power hungry. But for home users, even a 1000VA one should be enough for an SLI system. (they don't cross 600W IIRC)

I guess I'll just have to wait and see if it overloads.

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a b ) Power supply
January 3, 2005 7:32:01 PM

Quote:
I plan to either go for an extra 350VA for the monitor, or simply hook it to a surge protect plug and spare the system the backup of the monitor and keep extra juice flowing. That 90W will be needed anyways for the new system.


The first option is the best, getting an additional 350VA unit for the monitor because hooking the monitor to just a surge protector, will leave you in the dark to do your shutdown in the case of a solid power failure, and you possibly having data that needs to be saved when the power goes out, you don't want to be in that situation with data to be saved.

Later on if you feel the need you can get yourself around at least 1000VA, that you can run your entire setup on, I'm running an APC Back UPS Pro 1100 w 650W Total Load, that I scarfed up from Sam's Club for about $120.00 US, it was a great deal to run across, it runs my entire setup with 19" monitor, and powered surround sound speakers.

I've never let it run long enough to see how long it could run everything but with the Power Chute, shutdown program when the batteries start to get low it automatically will take control and shutdown the computer.



Quote:
then this UPS would be adequate to support at least a minute, without any overload issues, would you not agree Ryan?


You should have enough time to do a controlled shutdown, without any problems.








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<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=25..." target="_new">Specs</A>
January 3, 2005 9:50:50 PM

I agree you got enough, but I always test mine, once I forgot to attach battery on a new one, and it didn't work.
I test em by a button on the front, which will beep when power is off. You computer should stay on. You should also be able to unplug batter backup, and computer should stay on. Then plug back in. If not, your UPS is not working.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
January 5, 2005 6:55:39 PM

Oh trust me though, it has worked. Although that Test switch in the front never seems to have worked. I press it and hear nothing. I doubt it's using the battery at that moment.

But I was wondering, does overload get detected whilst using the PC or when battery backup is in use?

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January 5, 2005 6:58:00 PM

Quote:
The first option is the best, getting an additional 350VA unit for the monitor because hooking the monitor to just a surge protector, will leave you in the dark to do your shutdown in the case of a solid power failure, and you possibly having data that needs to be saved when the power goes out, you don't want to be in that situation with data to be saved.

Yeah that was my main qualm with not buying a side UPS. At the same time, it's also unclear how well the PowerChute software forces the shutdown, because from what I know, WinXP closing many users at once is a mess and most often will hang or take minutes. That's why I don't trust software that shuts down the comp, as I don't know how efficient it is at it.

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