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[EQ2] Who does the pulling in your group?

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Anonymous
January 12, 2005 3:41:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's puller.
I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
pullers.

I can track to the correct mobs if we need a particular one. I have a
low agro, long distance pulling tool with Stalk. This, for those that
don't know, is an ability that reduces agro but if there is no agro on
the mob it puts you on the mob's hate list with very little agro - I'd
have thought that the tank could take agro from me very quickly. Also,
the range on this ability is huge - way further than my bow. As there
doesn't seem to be any assist agro, the fact that I can pull at such a
distance can only reduce the number of possible adds.

In every group that I have been in the main tank has been the puller.
Whenever I have suggested that I pull it is made clear that the tank is
the puller. Even when I have found what we want on track and the tank
is just running around looking for it. I have to point out the
direction the mob is and (s)he runs off after it.

Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was the
result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main tank
be a better puller?

steve.kaye

More about : eq2 pulling group

Anonymous
January 12, 2005 5:27:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

>Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was the
>result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main tank
>be a better puller?

The puller should always be the toughest tank in the group. Its not
really to do with agro management or finding mobs but simply the fact
the tank can take the most damage. My experience of scouts pulling is
the often get wiped out fast, unlike the tank.

It also makes it easier to kill the mob if only one char pulls and has
aggro on them. People (especially the mages) can then target that
character and know they will all hit the same creature.

A scouts roll is really to point out where mobs are, open chests and
kill (they are better then the tank at attacking)

Having said that though it does depend a bit of the creatures and
levels of people. For example, while killing scarecrows in Antonica by
wizard was the best tank in the group simply because she was the
highest level and scarecrows could barely hit her. Did a fair amount of
damage when they did hit though. ^_^
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:30:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>Sure - but with stalk all you do is make sure the warrior hits it
first,
>or stands nearest - it'll go right ot them. Puller isn't equivilant to
>'tank' or 'aggro holder', which is what you're describing.

Actually it's all part of the same thing. If it was simply about
pulling a creature then mages would be great at it since their spells
can hit over a long distance and thus avoid engaging un-required adds.
The problem is what happens after you have engaged. It is much simpler
and safer if the person doing the pull is the one you want the
creatures to target, without have to re-agro them.

Most deaths happen when things go wrong, like if you think you are
pulling one creature and more then one joins the fight. If the tank
pulled then they would all target him, which is what you would want. If
you aim to switch agro the tank needs to quickly work out whose got
agro, the priest who needs heals, and the enchanter what to mez and
what not. Time you done that it might be too late and half the
group's dead. Keep it simple is the best method. Get one person to
pull and maintain agro and all the others attack that creature.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:30:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

steve.kaye wrote:
> I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's
puller.
> I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
> pullers.
>
> I can track to the correct mobs if we need a particular one. I have
a
> low agro, long distance pulling tool with Stalk. This, for those
that
> don't know, is an ability that reduces agro but if there is no agro
on
> the mob it puts you on the mob's hate list with very little agro -
I'd
> have thought that the tank could take agro from me very quickly.
Also,
> the range on this ability is huge - way further than my bow. As
there
> doesn't seem to be any assist agro, the fact that I can pull at such
a
> distance can only reduce the number of possible adds.
>
> In every group that I have been in the main tank has been the puller.
> Whenever I have suggested that I pull it is made clear that the tank
is
> the puller. Even when I have found what we want on track and the
tank
> is just running around looking for it. I have to point out the
> direction the mob is and (s)he runs off after it.
>
> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was
the
> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main
tank
> be a better puller?

Yep, the puller should always be the toughest tank in the group. Its
not really to do with agro management or finding mobs but simply the
fact the tank can take the most damage. My experience of scouts pulling
is the often get wiped out fast, unlike the tank.

It also makes it easier to kill the mob if only one char pulls and has
aggro on them. People (especially the mages) can then target that
character and know they will all hit the same creature.

A scouts roll is really to point out where mobs are, open chests and
kill (they are better then the tank at attacking)

Having said that though it does depend a bit of the creatures and
levels of people. For example, while killing scarecrows in Antonica by
wizard was the best tank in the group simply because she was the
highest level and scarecrows could barely hit her. Did a fair amount of
damage when they did hit though. ^_^
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:32:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

steve.kaye wrote:
> I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's
puller.
> I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
> pullers.
>
> I can track to the correct mobs if we need a particular one. I have
a
> low agro, long distance pulling tool with Stalk. This, for those
that
> don't know, is an ability that reduces agro but if there is no agro
on
> the mob it puts you on the mob's hate list with very little agro -
I'd
> have thought that the tank could take agro from me very quickly.
Also,
> the range on this ability is huge - way further than my bow. As
there
> doesn't seem to be any assist agro, the fact that I can pull at such
a
> distance can only reduce the number of possible adds.
>
> In every group that I have been in the main tank has been the puller.
> Whenever I have suggested that I pull it is made clear that the tank
is
> the puller. Even when I have found what we want on track and the
tank
> is just running around looking for it. I have to point out the
> direction the mob is and (s)he runs off after it.
>
> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was
the
> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main
tank
> be a better puller?

Yep, the puller should always be the toughest tank in the group. Its
not really to do with agro management or finding mobs but simply the
fact the tank can take the most damage. My experience of scouts pulling
is the often get wiped out fast, unlike the tank.

It also makes it easier to kill the mob if only one char pulls and has
aggro on them. People (especially the mages) can then target that
character and know they will all hit the same creature.

A scouts roll is really to point out where mobs are, open chests and
kill (they are better then the tank at attacking)

Having said that though it does depend a bit of the creatures and
levels of people. For example, while killing scarecrows in Antonica by
wizard was the best tank in the group simply because she was the
highest level and scarecrows could barely hit her. Did a fair amount of
damage when they did hit though. ^_^
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:39:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Pamela Carlton wrote:

> Keep having a go though, I'm sure when you get it down pat you will
be
> invited to alot better quality groups =)

It's not that I have problems when I pull - it is that I am not allowed
to pull. When I am soloing and I want one solo mob out of a bunch of
them I can use stalk to pick the one I want and not get any adds. If I
didn't have stalk I would have to get closer and have a higher risk of
adds. This is the position that the tank is in - as far as I know they
do not have the ability to pull something from the range that I have.
I know that I can pick one mob (or group) out of a number of close
together mobs. This ability would be useful in Nek as those groups of
Dragoons do seem to stand near each other.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 8:07:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

I regularly group with a scout. He often pulls, and we (rarely) have
aggro problems.

I Hold The Line, and target the scout with my bow. As the mob he pulls
comes into range the bow fires automatically, and with a taunt
component because of HtL. If that fails the taunt line has different
casting ranges, so there are a couple of taunt chances as the scout
runs past me.

If he didn't know to run straight for me (since I can't run to him) and
we didn't trust each other I suppose it wouldn't work.

Whether the same tactic works at higher level is for some other tanky
type to say.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 9:37:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

BombayMix wrote:
> >Sure - but with stalk all you do is make sure the warrior hits it
> first,
> >or stands nearest - it'll go right ot them. Puller isn't equivilant
to
> >'tank' or 'aggro holder', which is what you're describing.
>
> Actually it's all part of the same thing. If it was simply about
> pulling a creature then mages would be great at it since their spells
> can hit over a long distance and thus avoid engaging un-required
adds.
> The problem is what happens after you have engaged. It is much
simpler
> and safer if the person doing the pull is the one you want the
> creatures to target, without have to re-agro them.

This doesn't directly compare with Stalk though. The mages' damage
spells generate a lot of agro whereas Stalk is designed to lower agro.
I don't know of an ability that would generate less agro and still
generate enough to pull. Moopy said that simply running behind the
tank is usually enough to lose that agro. I don't know myself as I
haven't used it to pull in a group.


> Most deaths happen when things go wrong, like if you think you are
> pulling one creature and more then one joins the fight. If the tank
> pulled then they would all target him, which is what you would want.

This scenario is much less likely to occur though if I pull due to the
massive range.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 10:14:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>>>Sure - but with stalk all you do is make sure the warrior hits it
>>> first,
>>>or stands nearest - it'll go right to them. Puller isn't equivalent
>>>to
>>>'tank' or 'aggro holder', which is what you're describing.
>> Actually it's all part of the same thing. If it was simply about
>> pulling a creature then mages would be great at it since their
spells
>> can hit over a long distance and thus avoid engaging un-required
>> adds.
>> The problem is what happens after you have engaged. It is much
>> simpler
>> and safer if the person doing the pull is the one you want the
>> creatures to target, without have to re-agro them.
>This doesn't directly compare with Stalk though. The mages' damage
>spells generate a lot of agro whereas Stalk is designed to lower agro.
>I don't know of an ability that would generate less agro and still
>generate enough to pull. Moopy said that simply running behind the
>tank is usually enough to lose that agro. I don't know myself as I
>haven't used it to pull in a group.

Run together sounds prone to error, so the scout might find him
self-agro, unable to take the hits and out of range of the healer.
Resulting in one dead scout. It might work most of the times but seems
to be an unnecessary complication to me.

Any spell a mage can cast on a mop will pull it, not necessary damage
ones. I.e. you could ward them (often the first thing mages do anyway)
or root/mez one and the others will come running (often used then
soloing). If they were significant distance away there would be enough
time for the tank to re-agro them. I've done this a few times where a
mob is in a place the tank can't easily get too. But its prone to
errors, far safer to get the tank to agro them in the first place.

My experience of scouts pulling is that they often die before the mob
reaches the group due to them being unable to take the hits before the
mob getting re-agroed of them healed in time. This rarely happens with
a tank.

Last night in CoB one scout kept on starting encounters and a lot of
the time he died before the tank could re-agro them. Once the tank had
them agroed the situation came under control and the mob was killed
easily.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:49:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1105519309.641962.135330@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's puller.
> I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
> pullers.
>
<snip>
>
> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was the
> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main tank
> be a better puller?

My main is a ranger, and I'm sometimes the puller, sometimes not. It all depends
on the situation. If the group is looking for specific enemies, or we're in a
large area with room to maneuver, then quite often I'll do the pulling - easier
to find the right enemy, and I get a chance to do some damage to it while
running back to the group.
If we're just sitting near large groups of enemies killing anything and
everthing, or we're in enclosed areas like dungeons, then the main tank will
usually be puller, because there's no need to look around for the enemy, and
there isn't enough time to use many ranged combat arts before it gets close - I
may as well just go into stealth mode, let the mob get aggro on the tank, and
then whack it from behind.

Rich
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 12:01:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>> Run together sounds prone to error, so the scout might find him
>> self-agro, unable to take the hits and out of range of the healer.
>> Resulting in one dead scout. It might work most of the times but
seems
>> to be an unnecessary complication to me.


>With respect, that may be that you don't understand what is being
described.
>The mob will run to the group and hit the first person it comes
across.
>The scout just has to stand behind the warrior.
>Proximity aggro will do the rest. There is no 'running together'
>Involved, and, unless you're in a dungeon with twisty turny bits,
>the scout doesn't have to leave the party at all. Stalk has an
amazing
>range.

Still seems an unnecessary complication. You are hoping the creatures
hit the tank first or he taunts them in time. I still don't see how
it any better then the tank taunting them in the first place. The tank
shouldn't be running far to taunt mobs anyway and not out of range of
the healers spells, in case he agros more then he bargained and can't
get back the group in time.

>Should the scout have to leave the camp my experience suggests he'd
>simply hit stalk, run back to the camp, and stand with the warrior
>between himself and the npc in question - it will happily pound away
>on the first group member it reaches.

And in my experience the scout often ends up dead or nearly dead before
he reaches the group.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 12:16:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> This is all part of a highly effective group. This is what you shoot
> for. Your simplification comes at the cost of lower efficiency and,
IMO,
> reduces the game to boring button mashing.

I never claiming getting the tank to pull was the most efficient just
the safest, especially when things don't work out as planned. In my
experience the safest option is often the best one to choose. All the
methods mentions are still more likely to go wrong then having the tank
standing a few feet in front of the group and taunting the mobs. (He
too shouldn't be going that far away from the group to pull and
certainly not around mobs to get the one you really want. Clear out all
the possible add first is the best way.)
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:00:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

steve.kaye wrote:
> I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's
puller.
> I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
> pullers.
>
> I can track to the correct mobs if we need a particular one. I have
a
> low agro, long distance pulling tool with Stalk. This, for those
that
> don't know, is an ability that reduces agro but if there is no agro
on
> the mob it puts you on the mob's hate list with very little agro -
I'd
> have thought that the tank could take agro from me very quickly.
Also,
> the range on this ability is huge - way further than my bow. As
there
> doesn't seem to be any assist agro, the fact that I can pull at such
a
> distance can only reduce the number of possible adds.
>
> In every group that I have been in the main tank has been the puller.
> Whenever I have suggested that I pull it is made clear that the tank
is
> the puller. Even when I have found what we want on track and the
tank
> is just running around looking for it. I have to point out the
> direction the mob is and (s)he runs off after it.
>
> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was
the
> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main
tank
> be a better puller?

We've experimented with that, me pulling with Shadow (upgrade to
Stalk). Basically, it lets me pull from a long way away, and not get
any agro at all. The problem is, every time I do that, it seems the
mob heads right to a healer, no matter how much hate the tank is trying
to generate. It really is easier for them to keep agro if they get it
right off the bat. The only time I used Stalk for a good pull that
worked out the way we wanted was when we were killing the fairy queen
in Nek. The pull with Stalk allowed me to pull the queen without
getting the attention of her bodyguards, but the queen still went
straight for a healer, even as far back as the lake edge. The tank
came up with me though and started working on getting agro as soon as
possible (without getting the bodyguards to follow) so it wasn't too
bad.

When we are looking for something specific, I will track. If we are in
a dungeon, or enclosed area, the tank leads and I call out which
direction to head. If we are in an open area, I will lead and then
when I see the target, hail it so the tank can get it from me and then
pull.

Letting the tank pull is just easier, all the way around. Easier agro
management is the main reason a tank should pull, since that is a big
part of their job - maintain agro. The only time I really pull (as a
36 Assassin) is when I am soloing/duoing with a healer, or we are just
dinking around and leaving a path of destruction.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 1:56:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 2005-01-12, BombayMix <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote:
> The puller should always be the toughest tank in the group. Its not
> really to do with agro management or finding mobs but simply the fact
> the tank can take the most damage. My experience of scouts pulling is
> the often get wiped out fast, unlike the tank.

I'm amazed. Stalk gives 0 aggro. All you need to do is stand behind
a group member when you hit it - as far as I can see, its the near
perfect pulling tool. It doesnt refresh often enough for fast grinding,
but for pulling nameds, etc, I cant see why you wouldn't use it.

>
> It also makes it easier to kill the mob if only one char pulls and has
> aggro on them. People (especially the mages) can then target that

Sure - but with stalk all you do is make sure the warrior hits it first,
or stands nearest - it'll go right ot them. Puller isn't equivilant to
'tank' or 'aggro holder', which is what you're describing.

Matt
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:02:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
news:1105529421.291810.218600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

>>Sure - but with stalk all you do is make sure the warrior hits it
> first,
>>or stands nearest - it'll go right ot them. Puller isn't equivilant to
>>'tank' or 'aggro holder', which is what you're describing.
>
> Actually it's all part of the same thing. If it was simply about
> pulling a creature then mages would be great at it since their spells
> can hit over a long distance and thus avoid engaging un-required adds.
> The problem is what happens after you have engaged. It is much simpler
> and safer if the person doing the pull is the one you want the
> creatures to target, without have to re-agro them.

Except the scout in this case can more effectively pull without building
much aggro and be able to head out after another mob when the previous
one gets near death.

> Most deaths happen when things go wrong, like if you think you are
> pulling one creature and more then one joins the fight. If the tank
> pulled then they would all target him, which is what you would want.
> If you aim to switch agro the tank needs to quickly work out whose got
> agro, the priest who needs heals, and the enchanter what to mez and
> what not. Time you done that it might be too late and half the
> group's dead. Keep it simple is the best method. Get one person to
> pull and maintain agro and all the others attack that creature.

This is all part of a highly effective group. This is what you shoot
for. Your simplification comes at the cost of lower efficiency and, IMO,
reduces the game to boring button mashing.

If your group is having trouble, then sure, keep it simple, but if you
want to really shine, utilize the skills of all group member efficiently
and thereby most effectively.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:09:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
news:1105524508.381081.142850@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

>
> steve.kaye wrote:
>> I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's
> puller.
>> I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
>> pullers.
>>
>> I can track to the correct mobs if we need a particular one. I have
> a
>> low agro, long distance pulling tool with Stalk. This, for those
> that
>> don't know, is an ability that reduces agro but if there is no agro
> on
>> the mob it puts you on the mob's hate list with very little agro -
> I'd
>> have thought that the tank could take agro from me very quickly.
> Also,
>> the range on this ability is huge - way further than my bow. As
> there
>> doesn't seem to be any assist agro, the fact that I can pull at such
> a
>> distance can only reduce the number of possible adds.
>>
>> In every group that I have been in the main tank has been the puller.
>> Whenever I have suggested that I pull it is made clear that the tank
> is
>> the puller. Even when I have found what we want on track and the
> tank
>> is just running around looking for it. I have to point out the
>> direction the mob is and (s)he runs off after it.
>>
>> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was
> the
>> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main
> tank
>> be a better puller?
>
> Yep, the puller should always be the toughest tank in the group. Its
> not really to do with agro management or finding mobs but simply the
> fact the tank can take the most damage. My experience of scouts
> pulling is the often get wiped out fast, unlike the tank.

You should find better scouts to group with. If the tank is taunting and
managing aggro appropriately, a decent scout should have no trouble
keeping the hits they take to a mimimum.

> It also makes it easier to kill the mob if only one char pulls and has
> aggro on them. People (especially the mages) can then target that
> character and know they will all hit the same creature.

*Too* easy, actually. See my previous post.

> A scouts roll is really to point out where mobs are, open chests and
> kill (they are better then the tank at attacking)

You're limiting them unnecessarily. They have additional abilities that
are left under-utilized when you do.

Any class that has a low-aggro, ranged attack makes a better puller than
a tank class, especially when you add tracking to the equation.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:19:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Henrik Dissing wrote:
> On 12 Jan 2005 10:00:34 -0800, Meaffwin wrote:
>
> >If we are in an open area, I will lead and then
> >when I see the target, hail it so the tank can get it from me and
then
> >pull.
>
> I'm fascinated by this discussion, but forgive me for butting in with
a
> newbie question, or request for clarification, if you will:
>
> 1. The scout targets the mob and presses "H".
> 2. The tank targets the scout and calls /assist
> 3. The tank is now targeting the hailed mob and can begin to taunt.
>
> Is this correct?

That is correct. Using /assist will actually transfer your target to
the mob, unlike targeting the player which will make you hit the mob,
but the player is still targeted.

You should be able to have a macro that does something like:
/assist %t
to make it easy on you. I just manually change my macro to the tanks
name since I use it so much, and am assisting and not pulling.
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:21:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:
> Hmm. I can't think of any reason it would make an automatic bee-line
for
> the healer unless the healer was maintaining some aggro-generating
buffs
> on the party or something.

I'm not sure either, but I know that my fury friend hates it when I
pull with Shadow. Even turtles go after her, when we have a full group
going. It is bizarre, but enough so she doesn't like me pulling at
least :p 
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 6:58:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 2005-01-12, BombayMix <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote:
> Run together sounds prone to error, so the scout might find him
> self-agro, unable to take the hits and out of range of the healer.
> Resulting in one dead scout. It might work most of the times but seems
> to be an unnecessary complication to me.

With respect, that may be that you dont understand what is being described.

The mob will run to the group and hit the first person it comes across.

The scout just has to stand behind the warrior.

Proximity aggro will do the rest. There is no 'running together'
involved, and, unless you're in a dungeon with twisty turny bits,
the scout doesnt have to leave the party at all. Stalk has an amazing
range.

Should the scout have to leave the camp my experience suggests he'd
simply hit stalk, run back to the camp, and stand with the warrior
between himself and the npc in question - it will happily pound away
on the first group member it reaches.

> Any spell a mage can cast on a mop will pull it, not necessary damage
> ones. I.e. you could ward them (often the first thing mages do anyway)
> or root/mez one and the others will come running (often used then
> soloing). If they were significant distance away there would be enough
> time for the tank to re-agro them. I've done this a few times where a
> mob is in a place the tank can't easily get too. But its prone to
> errors, far safer to get the tank to agro them in the first place.

That is because the mage gets aggro. In this case, as far as I can see,
the scout doesn't. I can stand behind a party member, hit stalk and
with them doing *nothing but standing there* the mobs will hit them instead,
as they reach them first.

Perhaps I've just had amazing circumstances, I've only used stalk to
pull 4 or 5 times, but thats how its worked for me so far.

Matt
January 12, 2005 9:08:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:

> Except the scout in this case can more effectively pull without
> building much aggro and be able to head out after another mob when
> the previous one gets near death.

Well, except EQ2 isn't designed to work that way (not
the pulling, but the "head out after another mob when
the previous one gets near death.") If you (or your
group) has power to kill non-stop, you're taking mobs
too low for your level. You may still be getting XP,
but it'd be like a group in EQ taking light blues in
favor of the greens/blues around them...
January 12, 2005 9:10:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

steve.kaye wrote:

> This doesn't directly compare with Stalk though. The mages' damage
> spells generate a lot of agro whereas Stalk is designed to lower agro.
> I don't know of an ability that would generate less agro and still
> generate enough to pull.

The fury fluff spell "Faerie Fire" generates aggro -- simply
having a summoner send the pet (before the pet actually
hits the mob) is enough to transfer aggro from the fury...
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 12 Jan 2005 10:00:34 -0800, Meaffwin wrote:

>If we are in an open area, I will lead and then
>when I see the target, hail it so the tank can get it from me and then
>pull.

I'm fascinated by this discussion, but forgive me for butting in with a
newbie question, or request for clarification, if you will:

1. The scout targets the mob and presses "H".
2. The tank targets the scout and calls /assist
3. The tank is now targeting the hailed mob and can begin to taunt.

Is this correct?

I'm asking because I'm a guardian myself and have never really used the
/assist command.

I've often wondered why my group members keep hailing the enemy, but now I
know :-)
--
Henrik Dissing
Vork - Dwarven Guardian on Highkeep

(e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk)
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:36:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
news:1105548241.624234.305610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

>> This is all part of a highly effective group. This is what you shoot
>> for. Your simplification comes at the cost of lower efficiency and,
> IMO,
>> reduces the game to boring button mashing.
>
> I never claiming getting the tank to pull was the most efficient just
> the safest, especially when things don't work out as planned.

No, but you did say, "The puller should always be the toughest tank in
the group," with which I disagree.

I suppose that might be true if you are interested first and foremost in
always keeping things as safe as possible. Like I said, however, IMO that
pretty much reduces it to boring button mashing.

I'd much rather push the envelope a bit, thereby improving my own tactics
and abilities while keeping it interesting.

To each their own, I suppose.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:42:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:UIdFd.191726$8G4.157569
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> Rumbledor wrote:
>
>> Except the scout in this case can more effectively pull without
>> building much aggro and be able to head out after another mob when
>> the previous one gets near death.
>
> Well, except EQ2 isn't designed to work that way (not
> the pulling, but the "head out after another mob when
> the previous one gets near death.") If you (or your
> group) has power to kill non-stop, you're taking mobs
> too low for your level. You may still be getting XP,
> but it'd be like a group in EQ taking light blues in
> favor of the greens/blues around them...

Of course it wouldn't be non-stop, but it could be for extended periods,
relatively speaking. Add to that the fact that power/hp regen much faster
than EQ, and it should be even more applicable.

Your argument would also apply to EQ, actually, yet it was a highly
effective tactic nonetheless.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:45:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
news:1105549300.806336.290940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

>>> Run together sounds prone to error, so the scout might find him
>>> self-agro, unable to take the hits and out of range of the healer.
>>> Resulting in one dead scout. It might work most of the times but
> seems
>>> to be an unnecessary complication to me.
>
>
>>With respect, that may be that you don't understand what is being
> described.
>>The mob will run to the group and hit the first person it comes
> across.
>>The scout just has to stand behind the warrior.
>>Proximity aggro will do the rest. There is no 'running together'
>>Involved, and, unless you're in a dungeon with twisty turny bits,
>>the scout doesn't have to leave the party at all. Stalk has an
> amazing
>>range.
>
> Still seems an unnecessary complication. You are hoping the creatures
> hit the tank first or he taunts them in time. I still don't see how
> it any better then the tank taunting them in the first place. The tank
> shouldn't be running far to taunt mobs anyway and not out of range of
> the healers spells, in case he agros more then he bargained and can't
> get back the group in time.
>
>>Should the scout have to leave the camp my experience suggests he'd
>>simply hit stalk, run back to the camp, and stand with the warrior
>>between himself and the npc in question - it will happily pound away
>>on the first group member it reaches.
>
> And in my experience the scout often ends up dead or nearly dead
> before he reaches the group.

Then it doesn't sound like they were doing it right. /shrug

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 12, 2005 11:56:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"Meaffwin" <suka_@cox.net> wrote in
news:1105552834.454284.310720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> steve.kaye wrote:
>> I'm a level 23 Assassin and I have never, ever been the group's
> puller.
>> I find this very odd as you'd have thought that scouts would be good
>> pullers.
>>
>> I can track to the correct mobs if we need a particular one. I have
> a
>> low agro, long distance pulling tool with Stalk. This, for those
> that
>> don't know, is an ability that reduces agro but if there is no agro
> on
>> the mob it puts you on the mob's hate list with very little agro -
> I'd
>> have thought that the tank could take agro from me very quickly.
> Also,
>> the range on this ability is huge - way further than my bow. As
> there
>> doesn't seem to be any assist agro, the fact that I can pull at such
> a
>> distance can only reduce the number of possible adds.
>>
>> In every group that I have been in the main tank has been the puller.
>> Whenever I have suggested that I pull it is made clear that the tank
> is
>> the puller. Even when I have found what we want on track and the
> tank
>> is just running around looking for it. I have to point out the
>> direction the mob is and (s)he runs off after it.
>>
>> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was
> the
>> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main
> tank
>> be a better puller?
>
> We've experimented with that, me pulling with Shadow (upgrade to
> Stalk). Basically, it lets me pull from a long way away, and not get
> any agro at all. The problem is, every time I do that, it seems the
> mob heads right to a healer, no matter how much hate the tank is
> trying to generate. It really is easier for them to keep agro if they
> get it right off the bat. The only time I used Stalk for a good pull
> that worked out the way we wanted was when we were killing the fairy
> queen in Nek. The pull with Stalk allowed me to pull the queen
> without getting the attention of her bodyguards, but the queen still
> went straight for a healer, even as far back as the lake edge. The
> tank came up with me though and started working on getting agro as
> soon as possible (without getting the bodyguards to follow) so it
> wasn't too bad.

Hmm. I can't think of any reason it would make an automatic bee-line for
the healer unless the healer was maintaining some aggro-generating buffs
on the party or something.

Otherwise, that would indicate that the mobs are programmed to seek out
the healers and ignore proximity aggro, which I seriously doubt.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:07:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1105519309.641962.135330@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> Has anyone tried letting the scouts do the pulling? If so what was the
> result. Apart from the easier agro management why would the main tank
> be a better puller?
>
> steve.kaye
>
I have to start out by saying I am biased ;) 

Alot depends on trust - if it's a regular guild or pick-up group it can work
well to have the scout pull.

With a group of mobs I can pretty much assume if I pull that the aggro of
the first mob will always be on me, and if I can get through that I can do
the other good stuff later.
Unfortunately it takes some time before other classes are aware of what you
can do because they have grouped with some that haven't met their
expectations, and some people don't realise some of the abilities we have
can drop aggro from us too.
We had a fairly even group at the scarecrows near TS station where I got to
pull, the enchanter mezzed the add ...it was great... made me tank for a day
(okay, maybe a few hours...I am over that joke where a rnager walked into a
bar....).

Like anyone used a ranges weapon, when the main tank pulls I still do a
wounding arrow or other ranged shot to get my attack up as the main tank
normally gets aggro back before the mob hits the main group.

Keep having a go though, I'm sure when you get it down pat you will be
invited to alot better quality groups =)

eq2.najena.floriana
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:27:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Henrik Dissing" <sorry@drowned.in.spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:fhsau01r2lb7uvlnvm04hikkgfi3s1p4vj@4ax.com...
> On 12 Jan 2005 10:00:34 -0800, Meaffwin wrote:
>
> >If we are in an open area, I will lead and then
> >when I see the target, hail it so the tank can get it from me and then
> >pull.
>
> I'm fascinated by this discussion, but forgive me for butting in with a
> newbie question, or request for clarification, if you will:
>
> 1. The scout targets the mob and presses "H".
> 2. The tank targets the scout and calls /assist
> 3. The tank is now targeting the hailed mob and can begin to taunt.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> I'm asking because I'm a guardian myself and have never really used the
> /assist command.
>
> I've often wondered why my group members keep hailing the enemy, but now I
> know :-)

I like hailing them so the group knows what I am going to pull next.

You can also make/edit a macro key with the /assist on it and add it to your
hotbar.
It makes it alot faster when you have a group of mobs and you have spells
going off like crazy everywhere.
Also nice in that you can make sure it isn't you who awakens the mezzed mob,
and you can change the /assist person by right clicking and editing the name
straight from the hotbar too.


--
eq2.najena.Simonette
eq2.najena.Floriana
eq.bristlebane.Simonette
eq.bristlebane.Agapanthus
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:47:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Rumbledor" <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95DC9ED38CC2ERumbledorhotmailcom@216.148.227.77...
>
> I'd much rather push the envelope a bit, thereby improving my own tactics
> and abilities while keeping it interesting.
>
> To each their own, I suppose.
>

I like seeing what everyone can do under pressure too....first we get our
"what to do when things go bad" plan organised, then try different things.
Our tank volunteered himself to stay behind and eat a death so everyone else
could get out and therefore minimise xp debt.
He didn't die fortunately, but we certainly took more chances than we
normally would have and improved our grouping skills at the same time.


--
eq2.najena.Simonette
eq2.najena.Floriana
eq.bristlebane.Simonette
eq.bristlebane.Agapanthus
January 13, 2005 1:56:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:
> "Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:UIdFd.191726$8G4.157569
> @tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
>
>> Rumbledor wrote:
>>
>>> Except the scout in this case can more effectively pull without
>>> building much aggro and be able to head out after another mob when
>>> the previous one gets near death.
>>
>> Well, except EQ2 isn't designed to work that way (not
>> the pulling, but the "head out after another mob when
>> the previous one gets near death.") If you (or your
>> group) has power to kill non-stop, you're taking mobs
>> too low for your level. You may still be getting XP,
>> but it'd be like a group in EQ taking light blues in
>> favor of the greens/blues around them...
>
> Of course it wouldn't be non-stop, but it could be for extended
> periods, relatively speaking. Add to that the fact that power/hp
> regen much faster than EQ, and it should be even more applicable.

Except on quests where I need to kill certain mobs, if I'm
ending fights with more than a quarter power reserve
across the group, I look to move on to different mobs.
You can't pull non-stop that way...

> Your argument would also apply to EQ, actually, yet it was a
> highly effective tactic nonetheless.

XP in EQ was optimized by killing the highest possible mobs
you could kill quickly. That's not true in EQ2 -- XP there
is optimized by killing the highest possible group mobs you
can kill with a safety reserve. As you point out, there's no
reason to avoid downtime in EQ2 -- it's so short (assuming
everyone has level-appropriate food/drink) anyway. With
very little in-battle mana regen, you get minimal benefit from
chain-pulling in EQ2.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 3:16:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:

> Hmm. I can't think of any reason it would make an automatic bee-line
for
> the healer unless the healer was maintaining some aggro-generating
buffs
> on the party or something.
>
> Otherwise, that would indicate that the mobs are programmed to seek
out
> the healers and ignore proximity aggro, which I seriously doubt.

I have been in a group at Valmarr's in The Commonlands. We were
fighting the skeletons there and one of the skellies said something
like "get the healer so that they cannot mend." I think that this was
voiced as well - not just text - so some thought has gone into that as
a mob's tactic.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 10:40:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

We have a scout that is the puller many times.. It works very well for
us. The tank can get the aggro on them quickly. Your idea works very
well for our groups.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:15:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1105529940.108425.254130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Pamela Carlton wrote:
>
> > Keep having a go though, I'm sure when you get it down pat you will
> be
> > invited to alot better quality groups =)
>
> It's not that I have problems when I pull - it is that I am not allowed
> to pull. When I am soloing and I want one solo mob out of a bunch of
> them I can use stalk to pick the one I want and not get any adds. If I
> didn't have stalk I would have to get closer and have a higher risk of
> adds. This is the position that the tank is in - as far as I know they
> do not have the ability to pull something from the range that I have.
> I know that I can pick one mob (or group) out of a number of close
> together mobs. This ability would be useful in Nek as those groups of
> Dragoons do seem to stand near each other.
>
> steve.kaye
>
Sorry, didn't mean to infer you had problems pulling but rather that when
they see you're good at it you'll get your chance.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:19:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Remember not only heals add aggro. I (as a templar) died several times
because of slow casting 'pre-fight' buffs that actually triggered after
the tank pulled. They all come for me. I learned my lesson and now
don't cast group buffs if the tank is about to pull.
In any case. The problem is, when a tanker pulls with an AoE taunt,
all mobs get his attention. It's different than when a scout pulls, he
gets just one mob's attention. Pulling with AoE taunt has a great
advantage, casters can start doing their massive AoEs right from the
start without danger (something I don't like about EQ2 but that's
another story). This is what happens:
- Scout pulling range very long
- Meleer taunt range short
- Casters spells range long
So, before meleer has time to taunt, casters can (and usually do) cast
as soon as mobs are in range, making mobs go after them.

In a well organized group, scout pulling may work, but for the most
part, it's better to have tanker pull with aoe taunt
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:21:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:
> Aye, but the example presented involved the mobs heading straight for
the
> healer without any heals being cast. Basically, the scout got enough
aggro
> to pull, yet the mob ran past him to the healer who hadn't done a
thing
> yet.

Quick clarification (or nitpik, your choice ;)  ). Using Stalk or
Shadow to pull doesn't give the scout _ANY_ aggro. Those arts
specifically reduce that aggro between the scout and the mob. Since
they are combat arts though, they do initiate combat. The scout in
that case starts with what is effectively a negative amount of hate
built up.

Could this be an indication that healers (in my experience, furys)
start with more hate than others? I guess since nobody has any hate
built up (either by aggro proximity, initiating combat, etc) it means
the mobs have a natural affinity to wanting to beat up healers. Maybe
mobs aren't as dumb as they usually seem.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 1:25:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Henrik Dissing wrote:
> So /assist a one-shot effect, then, identical in function to actually
> clicking on the mob being targeted by the player I assist? Or will it
stay
> in effect so that I automatically switch target if/when the assisted
player
> does?

It is a one-shot effect, just like manually clicking on the mob.

> A related issue:
>
> When, on occasion, I'm backup tank, I'm supposed to pull straying
mobs and
> adds away from defensively weaker players. It's usually easy to see
who's in
> trouble by their yellow/orange/red health bars or their desperate
cries for
> help, but what's the quickest and safest method of targeting the
mob(s)
> hurting them? It can be quite impossible to tell from the 3D scene at
times.
>
> Just because a priest or a mage is being attacked doesn't necessarily
mean
> that he's fighting back (which would probably also be a bad idea,
because of
> the increased hate level), so /assist doesn't seem to be the answer
here.

I am constantly amazed at good tanks that are able to keep agro off
everybody but themselves. Battles can get extremely chaotic and I have
no idea how they manage to make sense of it all. Coercers and
Illusionists are another group that gets my respect. How they are able
to pick which mobs to mezz in that group that is beating on people is
just mind boggling. Other than that, I have no clue what the easiest
way to make sure you are peeling the right mobs off people would be :) 
January 13, 2005 2:17:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> writes:

> Rumbledor wrote:
> > Otherwise, that would indicate that the mobs are programmed to
> > seek out the healers and ignore proximity aggro, which I seriously
> > doubt.
>
> I have been in a group at Valmarr's in The Commonlands. We were
> fighting the skeletons there and one of the skellies said something
> like "get the healer so that they cannot mend." I think that this was
> voiced as well - not just text - so some thought has gone into that as
> a mob's tactic.

In beta, they would say things like "Get the healer" or "Run off and
get help", but from what people said (it never happened to me that I
noticed) they never actually did it, it was just meaningless fluff
text. That may have changed, of course, later on.
January 13, 2005 3:12:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1105604186.298987.4110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rumbledor wrote:
>
>> Hmm. I can't think of any reason it would make an automatic bee-line
> for
>> the healer unless the healer was maintaining some aggro-generating
> buffs
>> on the party or something.
>>
>> Otherwise, that would indicate that the mobs are programmed to seek
> out
>> the healers and ignore proximity aggro, which I seriously doubt.
>
> I have been in a group at Valmarr's in The Commonlands. We were
> fighting the skeletons there and one of the skellies said something
> like "get the healer so that they cannot mend." I think that this was
> voiced as well - not just text - so some thought has gone into that as
> a mob's tactic.
>
> steve.kaye
It is written into the AI, healing spells build up aggro on the healer, it
has happened to me a lot. If I stand behind the mob it does reduce the
chance of them "breaking taunt" and attacking me.

Shaun
"Benbow L16 Cleric, Neriak"
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 3:13:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

>Rumbledor wrote:
>> Otherwise, that would indicate that the mobs are programmed to seek
>>out the healers and ignore proximity aggro, which I seriously doubt.

steve.kaye <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>I have been in a group at Valmarr's in The Commonlands. We were
>fighting the skeletons there and one of the skellies said something
>like "get the healer so that they cannot mend." I think that this was
>voiced as well - not just text - so some thought has gone into that as
>a mob's tactic.

They say things like that, or about running to get help, but don't actually
change behavior based on it. It's too bad, really. That kind of AI (or at
least more complex programmed behavior) would make the game feel far more
real.
--
Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net <http://www.dagon.net/&gt;
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 6:32:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"Shaun" <news.address@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:bBtFd.154$VE5.152@newsfe2-win.ntli.net:

>
> "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1105604186.298987.4110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Rumbledor wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm. I can't think of any reason it would make an automatic bee-line
>> for
>>> the healer unless the healer was maintaining some aggro-generating
>> buffs
>>> on the party or something.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, that would indicate that the mobs are programmed to seek
>> out
>>> the healers and ignore proximity aggro, which I seriously doubt.
>>
>> I have been in a group at Valmarr's in The Commonlands. We were
>> fighting the skeletons there and one of the skellies said something
>> like "get the healer so that they cannot mend." I think that this
>> was voiced as well - not just text - so some thought has gone into
>> that as a mob's tactic.
>>
>> steve.kaye
> It is written into the AI, healing spells build up aggro on the
> healer, it has happened to me a lot. If I stand behind the mob it does
> reduce the chance of them "breaking taunt" and attacking me.

Aye, but the example presented involved the mobs heading straight for the
healer without any heals being cast. Basically, the scout got enough aggro
to pull, yet the mob ran past him to the healer who hadn't done a thing
yet.

From what others are saying, however, it seems that the AI may have
actually been designed to target healers first in some cases. Maybe healers
automatically get a certain level of aggro right off the bat.

Interesting. That would certainly give you a reason *not* to pull with low
aggro spells/abilities.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 6:55:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 2005-01-13, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
> From what others are saying, however, it seems that the AI may have
> actually been designed to target healers first in some cases. Maybe healers
> automatically get a certain level of aggro right off the bat.
>
> Interesting. That would certainly give you a reason *not* to pull with low
> aggro spells/abilities.

I havent seen that, but today while fighting a skeleton (grey con,
but tough) I had pretty solid aggro when it turned on my shaman
partner saying (literally, through the speakers) something like
'Its time to die, Priest, make your peace!'


This was only *After* casting of wards, etc, but it seemed an
obviously 'healer focused' change rather than merely built aggro.

Matt
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 7:48:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns95DC9FCCD7430Rumbledorhotmailcom@216.148.227.77:

> "Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:UIdFd.191726$8G4.157569
> @tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
>
>> Rumbledor wrote:
>>
>>> Except the scout in this case can more effectively pull without
>>> building much aggro and be able to head out after another mob when
>>> the previous one gets near death.
>>
>> Well, except EQ2 isn't designed to work that way (not
>> the pulling, but the "head out after another mob when
>> the previous one gets near death.") If you (or your
>> group) has power to kill non-stop, you're taking mobs
>> too low for your level. You may still be getting XP, but it'd be
>> like a group in EQ taking light blues in favor of the greens/blues
>> around them...
>
> Of course it wouldn't be non-stop, but it could be for extended
> periods, relatively speaking. Add to that the fact that power/hp regen
> much faster than EQ, and it should be even more applicable.
>
> Your argument would also apply to EQ, actually, yet it was a highly
> effective tactic nonetheless.
>

In EQ, downtime is a major factor, you need to pull mobs that are at a
level that you can handle without a significant net loss in mana/hp over
time, and keep doing that nonstop to maximize xp. There are other
methods, such as AoE groups, where you do things with planned downtime,
but for a run of the mill xp group, the desired outcome is as stated. In
EQ2, where downtime is trivial anyway, you can go after the much harder
mobs that you can take down while expending most of the power of all
group members, and be ready to take on the next one quite quickly.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 8:18:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 12 Jan 2005 15:19:33 -0800, Meaffwin wrote:

>Using /assist will actually transfer your target to
>the mob, unlike targeting the player which will make you hit the mob,
>but the player is still targeted.

So /assist a one-shot effect, then, identical in function to actually
clicking on the mob being targeted by the player I assist? Or will it stay
in effect so that I automatically switch target if/when the assisted player
does?

>You should be able to have a macro that does something like:
>/assist %t to make it easy on you.

I do have such a macro on a hotkey, I'm just not comfortable using it when I
don't with 100% certainty what it does :-)

A related issue:

When, on occasion, I'm backup tank, I'm supposed to pull straying mobs and
adds away from defensively weaker players. It's usually easy to see who's in
trouble by their yellow/orange/red health bars or their desperate cries for
help, but what's the quickest and safest method of targeting the mob(s)
hurting them? It can be quite impossible to tell from the 3D scene at times.

Just because a priest or a mage is being attacked doesn't necessarily mean
that he's fighting back (which would probably also be a bad idea, because of
the increased hate level), so /assist doesn't seem to be the answer here.
--
Henrik Dissing
Vork - Dwarven Guardian on Highkeep

(e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk)
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 9:05:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Moopy <pingu@keg.zymurgy.org> wrote in
news:slrncud6ge.i59.pingu@keg.zymurgy.org:

> On 2005-01-13, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
>> From what others are saying, however, it seems that the AI may have
>> actually been designed to target healers first in some cases. Maybe
>> healers automatically get a certain level of aggro right off the bat.
>>
>> Interesting. That would certainly give you a reason *not* to pull
>> with low aggro spells/abilities.
>
> I havent seen that, but today while fighting a skeleton (grey con,
> but tough) I had pretty solid aggro when it turned on my shaman
> partner saying (literally, through the speakers) something like
> 'Its time to die, Priest, make your peace!'
>
>
> This was only *After* casting of wards, etc, but it seemed an
> obviously 'healer focused' change rather than merely built aggro.
>

It probably was due to the agro, but the message was tailored to the
character class. I know I often get some agro when I have to cast a
group ward or group heal.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 9:07:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Henrik Dissing <sorry@drowned.in.spam.invalid> wrote in
news:p d6du0tk9219q1gbe5hip5egkrbq3ssvlh@4ax.com:

> On 12 Jan 2005 15:19:33 -0800, Meaffwin wrote:
>
>>Using /assist will actually transfer your target to
>>the mob, unlike targeting the player which will make you hit the mob,
>>but the player is still targeted.
>
> So /assist a one-shot effect, then, identical in function to actually
> clicking on the mob being targeted by the player I assist? Or will it
> stay in effect so that I automatically switch target if/when the
> assisted player does?

No, it will not. If you are assisting merely to cast spells or do melee
damage to the same mob as the designated MA, then just keep the MA
targetted, you will then switch with him, and hit the mob he is
targeting.

>
>>You should be able to have a macro that does something like: /assist
>>%t to make it easy on you.
>
> I do have such a macro on a hotkey, I'm just not comfortable using it
> when I don't with 100% certainty what it does :-)
>
> A related issue:
>
> When, on occasion, I'm backup tank, I'm supposed to pull straying mobs
> and adds away from defensively weaker players. It's usually easy to
> see who's in trouble by their yellow/orange/red health bars or their
> desperate cries for help, but what's the quickest and safest method of
> targeting the mob(s) hurting them? It can be quite impossible to tell
> from the 3D scene at times.
>
> Just because a priest or a mage is being attacked doesn't necessarily
> mean that he's fighting back (which would probably also be a bad idea,
> because of the increased hate level), so /assist doesn't seem to be
> the answer here. --

There is no good way that I am aware of. You have to look at the mobs,
and figure out which one is hitting the squishy player.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar
!