More whining

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One reason I'm so put off by what I've heard of the new guild
perks is that IMHO what SOE needs to encourage is lots of interaction
between individual players, especially players that aren't already
friends. I'm of the opinion that by deliberatley encouraging the
partitioning of a server's population into neat little tribes they
effectively remove the "massive" from MMPORG. And I think it'll be
particularly discouraging to new players (of which for some reason I
seem to be seeing more of lately) because it will turn the game into
a popularity contest. Sort of permanent EQ rush week.

 

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On 13 Jan 2005 18:37:42 -0500, wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) wrote:

>
> One reason I'm so put off by what I've heard of the new guild
>perks is that IMHO what SOE needs to encourage is lots of interaction
>between individual players, especially players that aren't already
>friends. I'm of the opinion that by deliberatley encouraging the
>partitioning of a server's population into neat little tribes they
>effectively remove the "massive" from MMPORG. And I think it'll be
>particularly discouraging to new players (of which for some reason I
>seem to be seeing more of lately) because it will turn the game into
>a popularity contest. Sort of permanent EQ rush week.

You're seriously overblowing things. One big purpose of guilds is for
people to work together for the benefit of the group. There's
absolutely nothing wrong with giving guilds more material goals to
work for that benefit the group. This will not stop those who want to
group outside their guild from doing so, and it won't punish those who
don't.

Humans are "tribal" creatures, anyway. They tend to be most
comfortable with a group of people that they know and don't tend to
"wander from the herd" much. Some do, but for the most part, they
don't. This system is, really, just rewarding natural behavior.

--
Dark Tyger

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In article <4l3eu0lobhmlo6dv2kvpiov30h93ud43ge@4ax.com>,
Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>"wander from the herd" much. Some do, but for the most part, they
>don't. This system is, really, just rewarding natural behavior.

are you calling me unnatural?

 

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On 13 Jan 2005 21:39:35 -0500, wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) wrote:

>In article <4l3eu0lobhmlo6dv2kvpiov30h93ud43ge@4ax.com>,
>Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>"wander from the herd" much. Some do, but for the most part, they
>>don't. This system is, really, just rewarding natural behavior.
>
> are you calling me unnatural?
>
>

Heh. Not really, there are always going to be those who go against
certain behaviors. Humans do tend to be social animals, yes, but we're
also pack animals.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/

 

[user]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <4l3eu0lobhmlo6dv2kvpiov30h93ud43ge@4ax.com>,
darktiger@somewhere.net says...
> On 13 Jan 2005 18:37:42 -0500, wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) wrote:
>
> >
> > One reason I'm so put off by what I've heard of the new guild
> >perks is that IMHO what SOE needs to encourage is lots of interaction
> >between individual players, especially players that aren't already
> >friends. I'm of the opinion that by deliberatley encouraging the
> >partitioning of a server's population into neat little tribes they
> >effectively remove the "massive" from MMPORG. And I think it'll be
> >particularly discouraging to new players (of which for some reason I
> >seem to be seeing more of lately) because it will turn the game into
> >a popularity contest. Sort of permanent EQ rush week.
>
> You're seriously overblowing things.

Agreed. But the new guild perks do have some drawbacks for the non-
guilded, and the coalitions.

> One big purpose of guilds is for
> people to work together for the benefit of the group. There's
> absolutely nothing wrong with giving guilds more material goals to
> work for that benefit the group. This will not stop those who want to
> group outside their guild from doing so, and it won't punish those who
> don't.

Au contraire. The new tools -appear- to require everyone to be in the
guild, (and probably to have the exansion too!) before they really start
working.

How will a 2-guild joint raid benefit from the new tools? How will a
guild raid with friends from other guilds work? What of lower level
guilds filled with members who don't have the new expansion?

These tools to me seem to smack of an all-or-nothing benefit. Mass
summon corpse is only really great if it actually summons -everybody-,
otherwise summon has to summon the stragglers. A persistent portal to X
is only great if everybody in the raid can use it, otherwise someone has
to lead the extras around another way. It really undermines the
usefulness of these tools. Whats the point of doing your MGBs inside a
hall without timers, if 5 or 6 of the raiders are standing outside and
can't come in?

It really does effectively 'punish' guilds for including a few friends
on a raid, or running joint-raids.

This is all based on the assumption that you'll need to be in the guild
to access the guild hall, which seems likely.

>
> Humans are "tribal" creatures, anyway. They tend to be most
> comfortable with a group of people that they know and don't tend to
> "wander from the herd" much. Some do, but for the most part, they
> don't. This system is, really, just rewarding natural behavior.

If the assumption is that natural behaviour is that which people will do
on their own, it doesn't need to be rewarded.

 

[Guest]

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In article <MPG.1c51303074e319ef9899a1@shawnews>,
42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>This is all based on the assumption that you'll need to be in the guild
>to access the guild hall, which seems likely.
>

Guest passes!

 

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"the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cs70o6$qs1$1@panix2.panix.com...
>
> One reason I'm so put off by what I've heard of the new guild
> perks is that IMHO what SOE needs to encourage is lots of interaction
> between individual players, especially players that aren't already
> friends.

The best way to do that is to strengthen the organizations that are
already in the game - guilds. Guilds go out and recruit unguilded folks,
unguilded folks decide to start a guild to get the benefits - this
encourages people to come together in community. This IS encouraging
interaction, and it's not solo-unfriendly. Imagine if, as a way of
encouraging interaction, they ensured that no mobs in DoN were soloable. How
much whining would we hear then? That is the alternative - instead of giving
perks to those who group, punish those who do not.

James

 

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wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) writes:
> In article <MPG.1c51303074e319ef9899a1@shawnews>,
> 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >This is all based on the assumption that you'll need to be in the guild
> >to access the guild hall, which seems likely.
> >
>
> Guest passes!

Or they might use the mechanism they already have, and say that
if 85% of the raid is in guild X, then the other 15% can enter
the otherwise-restricted "guild hall for guild X" as well.

Although we can all point to examples of good ideas done poorly
in the past, I am willing to wait and see how they handled this
one. (Though I admit I'll be surprised if anyone can enter a
guild hall without having bought the expansion.)

At least it sounds as though this expansion might have enough to
entice me into buying it. I still haven't bothered buying OOW,
since my highest character is 51 and I have plenty of things to do
without the OOW "Tasks".

-- Don.

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"42" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c51303074e319ef9899a1@shawnews...
> In article <4l3eu0lobhmlo6dv2kvpiov30h93ud43ge@4ax.com>,
Raid features may work for all in the raid....what might happen when you get
mixed raid etc I dunno.

Have to wait an see I guess.