MODULAR PSU's

[jokersgrin]

Modular PSU's not much info on them and how good they are, wish THG would do a review and test of modular PSU's. Reasons are that they appear to offer better cable management inside case's. I'm very interested in the modular design but there is a lack of info on quality, relibility, and efficenicy of them other than the basic info from the manufacturer which is all about the sell of their product.
Need a professional opinion backed with tests!

 

[Rugger]

THG did a recent review on PSUs that included some modular models. Take a look at that if you haveen't already done so.

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[Renegade87]

The OCZ Modstream series is probably the best available modular PSU currently. Although many people are quite happy with the Antec Neo 480.

"The world ends when you're dead. As long as your breathing you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man and give some back."

 

[wizoforb]

Do not get the ULTRA MODULAR PSU. They are the worse choice ever! All I've heard was bad experiences with them. They're cheap, and thats what you get. I'll second on the OCZ PSU any day!

 

[Renegade87]

I bought an Ultra X-Connect 500 to put into my GF's Rig well over a year ago. She loves it and it's worked great with absolutely no issues whatsoever.

I too have read many horror stories all over the net. Maybe we just got lucky.

"The world ends when you're dead. As long as your breathing you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man and give some back."

 

[wizoforb]

Well it all depends how much power your sucking out of that thing. Plus she use it everyday? The quality of these power supplies is "0". So no issues or not the PSU is a bad choice. For people who use everyday for long periods of time this power supply is just going to cause problems. With my 6800 Ultra it wasn't supplying enough power.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by wizoforb on 10/11/05 11:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[otto]

i've got a modstream and really like it. only gripe is not enough SATA connectors, but you can always use molex. otherwise, i haven't had a problem with it.

 

[wileycoyote]

I consider PC Power & Cooling to be THE authority on power supplies. As such, I put a lot of weight into the following literature that you can find on their web site.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/technology/myths/

Basically they are saying that you introduce more signal loss and noise by going with modular plugs. It probably wont make a difference for the average machine. It probably wont hurt you much in most overclocking either. However, for extreme overclocking and/or production server duties, you can't afford to compromise and therefore they shouldnt be used in those cases. Granted, thats a small subset of the whole.

 

[scrumhalf]

Just picked up an OCZ ModStream, its the business, highly recommend it (Monarch has them cheap too.)
-#9

 

[fishmahn]

There are no modular PSU using cheap material connectors unless you mod one yourself.

Umm, actually, molex connectors are 'cheap connectors'. They hold a connection fine if only inserted/removed a few times, but can loosen easily after that. Under a load of as little as 40a @ 7.2v (making a 12v load of roughly 25a for equal current) they have gotten overheated in a matter of minutes. Admittedly that was with a spikey load, but these things can be running with close to that load for hours pretty steady. That kind of load I can see being possible if you have an SLI setup and have to use a Y adapter... Maybe you won't get there, but you're getting pretty close to the limit of those connectors with today's high end system.

Mike.

<font color=blue>Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside the dog its too dark to read.
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[wileycoyote]

They never said they were using "cheap material connectors". They said that they use delicate pins that can corrode or break. This is true of all the power supply connectors. The real point they were making with that particular statement is NOT that the modular connections are substandard but rather that it is simply another connection and thus another "point of failure". In mission critical systems, IT prof's do everything they can do to limit the number of "points of failure". This is simply result of murphys law. Basically if it can break, then it probably will at the worst time possible.

Also the "signal loss" due to the connection is real and undisputable. Such is the case with pretty much all connections and lengths of wire. Coax works the same way. Splice it and you lose signal strength. This is also 'part' (but not all) of the reason that 20 -> 24 pin conversion via an extension cable is not desirable and can lead to problems. An extra connection is introduced on the most crititcal power hookup.

However, as I stated before, neither of these "undesirables" have enough of an impact on modulare psu's to worry about for 95% of the systems out there.

So, would I use one for my personal machine even if I'm overclocking? Yes I would if its a good brand with power headroom (the silverstones st60f is my personal fav).

Would I use one for a mission critical server? No.

 

[emogoch]

<A HREF="http://www.pureoverclock.com/article20.html" target="_new">This</A> review had me wishing that I had waited on my PSU for just a little longer. I have the Noisetaker in my machine right now, and find that I wish I didn't have so many extra calbes laying around right now.

That being said, I agree overall with wusy on this one. While there's no doubt that the modular design does increase resistance, and add potential corrosion and failure points, the major PSU vendors that provide modular designs use parts that are of a high-enough quality that these factors don't make a major difference to a consumer level user.

 

[wileycoyote]

Antec NeoHe 500w and Antec NeoHe 550w. Both are marketed as EPS12V with an 8pin 12v connector which is only for dual processor boards......

 

[wileycoyote]

"That being said, I agree overall with wusy on this one. While there's no doubt that the modular design does increase resistance, and add potential corrosion and failure points, the major PSU vendors that provide modular designs use parts that are of a high-enough quality that these factors don't make a major difference to a consumer level user."

which is exactly what i said.....

 

[Guest]

I would have to agree with the wusymeister on this issue.

First of all the power formula is P=I^2*R, and the R in a connector connection will be a constant no matter what the current is. So do the math. 12V @ 25 A is wwwaaayy less heating than 7.5V @ 40A in the connector connection resistance. So this was clearly not a valid argument. My suggestion on this matter would be don't talk about things you don't understand.

Second of all: a decent server application will be designed and set up by a professional and will not be opened and closed assembled and disassembled like a modder leet overclockers case will. The connectors will plain and simply see much less abuse and reuse. Therefore connectors in server cases will last longer whether they be at the power supply end or at the accessory end. Further there may be cooling performance gains to be seen by removing unused accessory power cords. While I agree that the extra connectors are one more link in the chain waiting to break it doesn't make any sense to me that they are more likely to break in a server app. If anything it is daily tweakers who will wear them out and see failures more often. The voltage drop due to the extra connection will be a non issue since the modular part is for the accessory cords not the mainboard powersupply.

It all sounds like a big marketing ploy to me.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by knewton on 10/26/05 09:58 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[wileycoyote]

Only in how you use it. For most small buisness servers, the parts are nearly identical to what you would find in a so called "workstation" (with the typical exception of a vid card). Many small buisness's and most mid level servers use dual proc boards. Most small buisness servers are actually single proc boards. So to say that there are NO modular psu's for servers is incorrect. Basically all of them could be used for that duty. Also, a workstation would still fall under the category of mission critical. Your not going to take chances with $6000 in equipment or even more important, the autocad work being done on it. You asked for a modular psu for server boards....there you are.

Knewton,
The connector isnt "more likely to break", its simply another possible point of failure. Yes its paranoid, but welcome to the world of IT (I work as part of a team on a 20,000+ client database system every day). If the system is down at all, your buisness loses money. This forces IT to make systems as simple and worry free (minimal points of failure) as possible. Hence redundant power supplies and expensive backup systems (even for a SMALL buisness). Do you think someone spending that kind of money on a system and having their livelyhood rest on it is going to take any chances? Again, the most important law becomes Murphy's law.

Also, how can a voltage drop on ANY system component be a non issue? Sure its not on the mainboard line, its on your hard drives, vid card, and cooling fans. There aren't any non-critical parts in a server/workstation.

Like I said before (and seems to be getting ignored) I would use and have used a modular psu for my personal machine. A psu I would love to try out is the Silverstone ST60 but I couldnt justify the price tag. However, I'm the only one that mucks with it and I dont have multiple users hitting it for services all the time. There is virtually no risk for me. I would NOT use one for any kind of server/workstation for even a small buisness. In those scenarios, even a very small risk can make for very big headaches.

As for the statement by pc power & cooling, I think you need to also remember that their primary focus up until recently appears to have been on server/workstation class systems. Marketing for the enthusiast seems to be new to them as of about 2 years ago. As such, they seem to approach things from a server/workstation no compromise type of attittude which I can appreciate. The price tag alone tells you that they are not for everyone. In my side buisness were we build custom sbs servers and pc's, we drool and wet our pants everytime we get to use one (every sbs server we build).

Bottom line, you guys feel that modular psu's are good for anywhere and I feel that they are good for everything but server/workstations. Agree to disagree with me if you want . My wife couldn't care less about this stuff and so if I want to appease my ego I will just convince her that I'm right, she will roll her eyes, hand me a diaper, and I will go back to wiping butts!

poopy hands out...

 

[Guest]

wileycoyote,
I agree that extra connectors are one more link in the chain that could fail. I would qualify however that failure is only likely during assembly and disassembly. Unless you aren't testing your boxes after working on them the fault would be caught before the unit is put into duty. In my experience quality socket/plug connections are not more likely to fail than a soldered joint after the system has been buttoned up, even in environments with extreme vibrations. These connections are only more prone during service while being seperated and plugged.

The point I am making about voltage drop being a non issue is: the relatively small current draw for hard drives etc. results in negligable voltage drops on the cable connections which do not affect the operation of the device. The logic/ software systems will be running off onboard regulators which will compensate for any fluctuations away from nominal voltage. The only thing likely to be running off the cable voltage will be the stepper motors which will have plenty of overhead in a well designed system as this very scenario will have been forseen.

The argument you make about cost is what makes the most sense to me.

 

[Guest]

Oh yeah, with due respect I am agreeing to disagree.