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Caster's Realm: Is Everquest Dying?

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Anonymous
January 24, 2005 10:29:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Is Everquest Dying?

This question seems to flood every EQ-based message forum since the
release of EQ2 and Worlds of Warcraft. Is our beloved Norrath crashing
to the ground? Are the city streets empty? Do lone adventurers stare
over the empty wastelands of a once rich and populated land? Today we
will discuss the future of Everquest and address the most difficult
question we have had to answer since EQ came into being.

Let me start with the answer. No, Everquest is not dying. But let us go
back a step further and define what dying and death are for a game such
as this. Here is Loral's Definition for the Death of Everquest:

If SOE no longer produces new expansions or new extensive content
patches, then Everquest is dying.

If SOE no longer continues to maintain the servers and we are no longer
able to go online, then EQ is officially dead.

Some might argue with these definitions. Death, being a very general
and melodramatic term when used for a description of a computer game,
means different things to us all. To some it is the destruction of a
guild. To others it is an inability to find a group. To others it is
the point when previously powerful guilds are no longer able to defeat
encounters they once were or no longer able to progress beyond current
encounters. Others use the number of people in the bazaar to determine
death or population.

But let us ignore these definitions for a moment and stick to the two I
mention above. As long as SOE continues to bring out new expansions,
our world will grow and continue to bring new challenges to our
doorsteps. We will walk with worn leather boots across lands we never
dreamed about. We will continue to grow in power, riches, and knowledge
of faraway places. More importantly, new expansions keep Everquest on
the shelves where new players find it and jump in.

With the release of each previous expansion, the numbers of active
players increase. After a few months these numbers dip back down again
until the next expansion release occurs and players come back again. As
long as new expansion releases continue, players will return and new
players will join. The quality of that expansion might determine how
long those players stay.

Will SOE continue to release new expansions? So far, yes. SOE already
began work on a new expansion. I estimate an announcement sometime in
mid-January or early February for a new expansion release sometime
between April and June. Only then will we know the nature and features
of this expansion but given what we've seen with Omens, I am quite
optimistic.

How long will SOE continue to release new expansions? SOE will continue
to release new expansions as long as it remains cost effective to do
so. While only the great gold-hoarding dragons at SOE could say for
sure what amount of subscriptions it takes to pay for new expansion
development, we can look at other MMOGs with fewer players to get a
rough estimate. Let us pick three other MMOGs with lower player
numbers. All statistics came from Bruce Sterling Woodcock who maintains
a set of subscription numbers based on company press releases and other
sources of data. Unfortunately his latest page is down, but the
Internet Archive had his statistics from one year ago which is enough
to work through my theory.

According to Bruce Woodcock (chuckle), Eve Online had 40,000
subscribers, Anarchy Online had about 40,000 subscribers, and
Shadowbane had about 50,000 subscribers. Now you may wonder why I
ignored bigger MMOGs like Ragnarok or Final Fantasy XI. I ignored them
because I specifically wanted MMOGs with lower subscription numbers.
The three games above had subscription numbers at roughly 10% of
Everquest's subscriptions. More importantly, all three of them
continued to release expansions.

Now I am jumping far out into the realm of speculation, but I speculate
that SOE could continue to fund new Everquest expansions with 10% of
the subscribers they had when Gates of Discord came out, roughly
430,000 active subscribers (source: GoD Press Release ).

So based on that obviously loose data, we can say that we know SOE is
going to release a new expansion and will probably continue to do so
for a long while. It will be a long time before EQ's population drops
to less than 40,000 active subscribers.

Now obviously the number of active players has gone down in the last
couple of months. This is due to a few different factors including the
holidays, a slew of new and excellent single-player games such as Halo
2, Half Life 2, Grand Theft Auto San Andraes, and nearly a dozen more
hot games, and yes, the release of Everquest 2 and Worlds of Warcraft.

The holidays are just about over. Those single-player games won't hold
people forever. While some may leave EQ for EQ2 and WoW, some will not.
Some will try out those new games for a while but return back to the
game they already enjoy. This will be especially true when a new
expansion comes out. Nothing brings people back like a box of new
content and features to dig into.

Server consolidation is another major topic of discussion. As the
player subscription numbers do go down, SOE may eventually consider
consolidating servers. Such a move is very severe and may end up
driving even more players out of the game. We all grow very attached to
our own world and the people within it. Most of us don't want to
suddenly get packed into a new world with a new name and a bunch of
strangers we didn't know. I would expect, when the time comes to
consolidate servers, that SOE will do a lot of them all at once. Like
ripping off a bandage, SOE will want to make the pain as quick as
possible and never do it again if they don't have to.

I wouldn't expect any such decisions on server consolidation to happen
until after the next expansion. SOE will want to see how many players
come back to EQ once the new expansion is released. If they don't see a
big jump and the numbers of active and online players remains low, then
they may decide its time to consider server consolidation.

Before considering anything as drastic as server consolidation, SOE
will want to find ways to help people find groups and help lower-number
raids find fun and meaningful content.

Change frightens us. The release of Everquest 2 brought many of
questions to every Everquest community to which I belong. Would EQ2
kill Everquest? Would Worlds of Warcraft kill both? Would our groups of
friends break off and never speak again? These are all scary questions.
No one wants to lose their friends. The answers to these questions are
much fuzzier than any single statement can articulate. Some will leave,
some will stay, some will come back, some new people will join.

Is Everquest dying? No, it's not. SOE stated their continued support
for this game many times. Our look at other MMOGs, their subscription
numbers, and the continued release of expansions shows us that even
with much lower subscription numbers, Everquest will remain alive and
healthy. No one can say for certain what will happen. SOE has very
smart people spending a lot of time analyzing these trends and even
they cannot predict what will happen in the long run. We can be
confident, however, that the world of Norrath will remain strong for a
long while.

Loral Ciriclight
loral@loralciriclight.com
31 December 2004
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 2:26:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106623762.901193.151120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Is Everquest Dying?
>
> This question seems to flood every EQ-based message forum since the
> release of EQ2 and Worlds of Warcraft. Is our beloved Norrath crashing
> to the ground? Are the city streets empty? Do lone adventurers stare
> over the empty wastelands of a once rich and populated land? Today we
> will discuss the future of Everquest and address the most difficult
> question we have had to answer since EQ came into being.

--- snipped a lot ---

I left EQ1 for EQ2 - had fun for awhile but found it both too easy and too
lonely. The decision in EQ2 so segragate evil and good hurts the game I
think. And the hand holding just ticked me off - let me make my own
mistakes. The death penalty is a joke.

Ive recently gone back to EQ1 ( Quellious Server ) and found the game alive
and well, at least on my server. I wont try another game till Vanguard goes
beta ( if I get in ) or live. Till then I agree completely with Loral - EQ1
is alive and, while maybe smaller, well.

Cladari
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 11:08:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> Is Everquest dying? No, it's not. SOE stated their continued support
> for this game many times. Our look at other MMOGs, their subscription
> numbers, and the continued release of expansions shows us that even
> with much lower subscription numbers, Everquest will remain alive and
> healthy.

.... and the band played on as the Titanic sank.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 2:42:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106623762.901193.151120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> More importantly, new expansions keep Everquest on
> the shelves where new players find it and jump in.

Potential_noob_1 wanders into computergame store.

Sees Everquest 1 Expansion: Dragons of Norrath (working name: So Very
Tired)

Sees Everquest II next to it.

...

I think the inescapable fact is this: In most people's minds, that is
the equivalent of putting an expansion pack for Medieval Total War next to
Rome Total War on the same shelf. EQ1 is going to have a _very_ hard time
attracting new players now, based purely on what EQII is doing, let alone
WoW.

So I'm sorry Mike I can't agree. Everquest has been slowly dying for an
awfully long time. Subscriptions peaked aroundabout PoP (was it just prior
to PoP?) and have been declining since, with two very steep dives right
after GoD was released and right after the EQII/WoW releases.

And now there will be very few noobs for the grind.

Oh and no doubt purely to annoy me, Sony has announced that classes will
be finally 'rebalanced'. If anything could save EQ for me, it would be that.
Unfortunately, it's a couple of months too late.

Cheers,
James
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 3:15:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"James Hicks" <nospam@forme.plz> wrote in message
news:egqJd.133683$K7.111388@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1106623762.901193.151120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > More importantly, new expansions keep Everquest on
> > the shelves where new players find it and jump in.
>
> Potential_noob_1 wanders into computergame store.
>
> Sees Everquest 1 Expansion: Dragons of Norrath (working name: So Very
> Tired)
>
> Sees Everquest II next to it.
>
> ...
>
> I think the inescapable fact is this: In most people's minds, that is
> the equivalent of putting an expansion pack for Medieval Total War next to
> Rome Total War on the same shelf. EQ1 is going to have a _very_ hard time
> attracting new players now, based purely on what EQII is doing, let alone
> WoW.

Not to my or a lot of EQ player's minds that I know of - EQ2 like Rome Total
War needs a new breed of PC that the older games didnt need to run on - If
you have the system to support it all well and good, but not that many
people are willing to shell out on a new system just to play new games.

Remember the outrage when they upped the video requirements on EQ ?

To each his or her own - play for the enjoyment not just because it's new
and you'll find games like EQ have a viable life for quite a considerable
time to come - Have fun in EQ2, WoW, DAoC, SWG or whatever takes your fancy.
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 6:28:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:42:02 GMT in
<egqJd.133683$K7.111388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "James Hicks"
<nospam@forme.plz> graced the world with this thought:

>"Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1106623762.901193.151120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> More importantly, new expansions keep Everquest on
>> the shelves where new players find it and jump in.
>
> Potential_noob_1 wanders into computergame store.
>
> Sees Everquest 1 Expansion: Dragons of Norrath (working name: So Very
>Tired)
>
> Sees Everquest II next to it.
>
> ...
>
> I think the inescapable fact is this: In most people's minds, that is
>the equivalent of putting an expansion pack for Medieval Total War next to
>Rome Total War on the same shelf. EQ1 is going to have a _very_ hard time
>attracting new players now, based purely on what EQII is doing, let alone
>WoW.
>
> So I'm sorry Mike I can't agree. Everquest has been slowly dying for an
>awfully long time. Subscriptions peaked aroundabout PoP (was it just prior
>to PoP?) and have been declining since, with two very steep dives right
>after GoD was released and right after the EQII/WoW releases.
>
> And now there will be very few noobs for the grind.
>
> Oh and no doubt purely to annoy me, Sony has announced that classes will
>be finally 'rebalanced'. If anything could save EQ for me, it would be that.
>Unfortunately, it's a couple of months too late.
>
>Cheers,
>James
>
>
Key words: New players. Lets not forget there's still hundreds of
thousands of <old players.>
And then there's the popular habit of charging five times more for new
versus old... not everyone has $50 for the <basic> game, or the $3500
for a new computer to play it on. Blanket judgements don't do real
well in reality.
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 6:30:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:15:27 -0000 in
<41f63862$0$20974$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, "RangerGirl"
<kris@twoplates.f9.co.uk> graced the world with this thought:

>Remember the outrage when they upped the video requirements on EQ ?

which time?
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 7:20:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in news:1106623762.901193.151120
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> Is Everquest Dying?
>
<snip>
>
> Some might argue with these definitions. Death, being a very general
> and melodramatic term when used for a description of a computer game,
> means different things to us all. To some it is the destruction of a
> guild. To others it is an inability to find a group. To others it is
> the point when previously powerful guilds are no longer able to defeat
> encounters they once were or no longer able to progress beyond current
> encounters. Others use the number of people in the bazaar to determine
> death or population.

Well, since EQ2 and WoW came out, we have defeated Xegony, and flagged
ourselves for PoEB, as well as won against OOW encounters that prior to
that had wiped us.

<snip>

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 20 Sage
Aviv, 11 Gnome Braeler, 14 Craftsman
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 7:24:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"James Hicks" <nospam@forme.plz> wrote in
news:egqJd.133683$K7.111388@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

> "Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1106623762.901193.151120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> More importantly, new expansions keep Everquest on the shelves where
>> new players find it and jump in.
>
> Potential_noob_1 wanders into computergame store.
>
> Sees Everquest 1 Expansion: Dragons of Norrath (working name: So
> Very
> Tired)
>
> Sees Everquest II next to it.
>
> ...
>
> I think the inescapable fact is this: In most people's minds, that
> is
> the equivalent of putting an expansion pack for Medieval Total War
> next to Rome Total War on the same shelf. EQ1 is going to have a
> _very_ hard time attracting new players now, based purely on what EQII
> is doing, let alone WoW.
>
> So I'm sorry Mike I can't agree. Everquest has been slowly dying
> for an
> awfully long time. Subscriptions peaked aroundabout PoP (was it just
> prior to PoP?) and have been declining since, with two very steep
> dives right after GoD was released and right after the EQII/WoW
> releases.
>
> And now there will be very few noobs for the grind.
>
> Oh and no doubt purely to annoy me, Sony has announced that
> classes will
> be finally 'rebalanced'. If anything could save EQ for me, it would be
> that. Unfortunately, it's a couple of months too late.
>

While it is true, I expect there are a lot less new players, there are
still many many old players who continue to play and have fun. Slowly
over time there will likely be attrition, and eventually, SoE will pull
the plug, but I don't expect to see that for quite some time yet.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 20 Sage
Aviv, 11 Gnome Braeler, 14 Craftsman
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 1:20:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 24 Jan 2005 19:29:22 -0800, "Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote:

>Is Everquest Dying?
>
>This question seems to flood every EQ-based message forum since the
>release of EQ2 and Worlds of Warcraft. Is our beloved Norrath crashing
>to the ground? Are the city streets empty? Do lone adventurers stare
>over the empty wastelands of a once rich and populated land? Today we
>will discuss the future of Everquest and address the most difficult
>question we have had to answer since EQ came into being.
>
>Let me start with the answer. No, Everquest is not dying. But let us go
>back a step further and define what dying and death are for a game such
>as this. Here is Loral's Definition for the Death of Everquest:
>
>If SOE no longer produces new expansions or new extensive content
>patches, then Everquest is dying.
>
>If SOE no longer continues to maintain the servers and we are no longer
>able to go online, then EQ is officially dead.
>
>Some might argue with these definitions. Death, being a very general
>and melodramatic term when used for a description of a computer game,
>means different things to us all. To some it is the destruction of a
>guild. To others it is an inability to find a group. To others it is
>the point when previously powerful guilds are no longer able to defeat
>encounters they once were or no longer able to progress beyond current
>encounters. Others use the number of people in the bazaar to determine
>death or population.
>
>But let us ignore these definitions for a moment and stick to the two I
>mention above. As long as SOE continues to bring out new expansions,
>our world will grow and continue to bring new challenges to our
>doorsteps. We will walk with worn leather boots across lands we never
>dreamed about. We will continue to grow in power, riches, and knowledge
>of faraway places. More importantly, new expansions keep Everquest on
>the shelves where new players find it and jump in.
>
>With the release of each previous expansion, the numbers of active
>players increase. After a few months these numbers dip back down again
>until the next expansion release occurs and players come back again. As
>long as new expansion releases continue, players will return and new
>players will join. The quality of that expansion might determine how
>long those players stay.
>
>Will SOE continue to release new expansions? So far, yes. SOE already
>began work on a new expansion. I estimate an announcement sometime in
>mid-January or early February for a new expansion release sometime
>between April and June. Only then will we know the nature and features
>of this expansion but given what we've seen with Omens, I am quite
>optimistic.
>
>How long will SOE continue to release new expansions? SOE will continue
>to release new expansions as long as it remains cost effective to do
>so. While only the great gold-hoarding dragons at SOE could say for
>sure what amount of subscriptions it takes to pay for new expansion
>development, we can look at other MMOGs with fewer players to get a
>rough estimate. Let us pick three other MMOGs with lower player
>numbers. All statistics came from Bruce Sterling Woodcock who maintains
>a set of subscription numbers based on company press releases and other
>sources of data. Unfortunately his latest page is down, but the
>Internet Archive had his statistics from one year ago which is enough
>to work through my theory.
>
>According to Bruce Woodcock (chuckle), Eve Online had 40,000
>subscribers, Anarchy Online had about 40,000 subscribers, and
>Shadowbane had about 50,000 subscribers. Now you may wonder why I
>ignored bigger MMOGs like Ragnarok or Final Fantasy XI. I ignored them
>because I specifically wanted MMOGs with lower subscription numbers.
>The three games above had subscription numbers at roughly 10% of
>Everquest's subscriptions. More importantly, all three of them
>continued to release expansions.
>
>Now I am jumping far out into the realm of speculation, but I speculate
>that SOE could continue to fund new Everquest expansions with 10% of
>the subscribers they had when Gates of Discord came out, roughly
>430,000 active subscribers (source: GoD Press Release ).
>
>So based on that obviously loose data, we can say that we know SOE is
>going to release a new expansion and will probably continue to do so
>for a long while. It will be a long time before EQ's population drops
>to less than 40,000 active subscribers.
>
>Now obviously the number of active players has gone down in the last
>couple of months. This is due to a few different factors including the
>holidays, a slew of new and excellent single-player games such as Halo
>2, Half Life 2, Grand Theft Auto San Andraes, and nearly a dozen more
>hot games, and yes, the release of Everquest 2 and Worlds of Warcraft.
>
>The holidays are just about over. Those single-player games won't hold
>people forever. While some may leave EQ for EQ2 and WoW, some will not.
>Some will try out those new games for a while but return back to the
>game they already enjoy. This will be especially true when a new
>expansion comes out. Nothing brings people back like a box of new
>content and features to dig into.
>
>Server consolidation is another major topic of discussion. As the
>player subscription numbers do go down, SOE may eventually consider
>consolidating servers. Such a move is very severe and may end up
>driving even more players out of the game. We all grow very attached to
>our own world and the people within it. Most of us don't want to
>suddenly get packed into a new world with a new name and a bunch of
>strangers we didn't know. I would expect, when the time comes to
>consolidate servers, that SOE will do a lot of them all at once. Like
>ripping off a bandage, SOE will want to make the pain as quick as
>possible and never do it again if they don't have to.
>
>I wouldn't expect any such decisions on server consolidation to happen
>until after the next expansion. SOE will want to see how many players
>come back to EQ once the new expansion is released. If they don't see a
>big jump and the numbers of active and online players remains low, then
>they may decide its time to consider server consolidation.
>
>Before considering anything as drastic as server consolidation, SOE
>will want to find ways to help people find groups and help lower-number
>raids find fun and meaningful content.
>
>Change frightens us. The release of Everquest 2 brought many of
>questions to every Everquest community to which I belong. Would EQ2
>kill Everquest? Would Worlds of Warcraft kill both? Would our groups of
>friends break off and never speak again? These are all scary questions.
>No one wants to lose their friends. The answers to these questions are
>much fuzzier than any single statement can articulate. Some will leave,
>some will stay, some will come back, some new people will join.
>
>Is Everquest dying? No, it's not. SOE stated their continued support
>for this game many times. Our look at other MMOGs, their subscription
>numbers, and the continued release of expansions shows us that even
>with much lower subscription numbers, Everquest will remain alive and
>healthy. No one can say for certain what will happen. SOE has very
>smart people spending a lot of time analyzing these trends and even
>they cannot predict what will happen in the long run. We can be
>confident, however, that the world of Norrath will remain strong for a
>long while.
>
>Loral Ciriclight
>loral@loralciriclight.com
>31 December 2004

I dont care anymore,170 instead of 550 Traders and waiting for hours
on a group since WoW and EQ2 release tells me enough.
And what are they doing to improve the situation? - Releasing another
expansion to spread out players even more.Great ,rofl.
I am still curious about numbers,saw something about around 300k
EQ2 accounts,would be interesting to know how much of them are former
EQ 1 players,I am sure they wont tell us. :) 


Meldur (waiting on European release of WoW)
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 7:24:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>> Similarly EQ is a good game, but its been sitting on the shelves for
5
>> years, and its got its own Sequel next to it, along with a variety
of
>> big name new titles. To top it off, EQ1, after you buy the
expansions to
>> catch it up costs more than EQ2.


>Everquest Platinum costs $20, Omens of War costs $20, Everquest II
>costs $40. Looks like the same price to me, pretty much, and OoW is
>optional, especially to a newbie. Admittedly if you want to get both
>OoW and Dragons of Norrath, once that's out, you'll end up spending
>more than you would on EQ2, but then you'll have a lot more content
>available, too (at least if you're happy soloing or can convince
>someone to go there with you).
>Distributors outside the US have different pricing, of course, but
>that's hard for SOE to do much about, I suspect.


Plus it's confusing to new players. You see one version of Everquest
with expansion x and another with expansion y. Which one do you get?
They will probably do what I did and get EQ2 or another MMORPG instead.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 11:11:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1106742241.491777.144820@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> Similarly EQ is a good game, but its been sitting on the shelves for
> 5
> >> years, and its got its own Sequel next to it, along with a variety
> of
> >> big name new titles. To top it off, EQ1, after you buy the
> expansions to
> >> catch it up costs more than EQ2.
>
>
> >Everquest Platinum costs $20, Omens of War costs $20, Everquest II
> >costs $40. Looks like the same price to me, pretty much, and OoW is
> >optional, especially to a newbie. Admittedly if you want to get both
> >OoW and Dragons of Norrath, once that's out, you'll end up spending
> >more than you would on EQ2, but then you'll have a lot more content
> >available, too (at least if you're happy soloing or can convince
> >someone to go there with you).
> >Distributors outside the US have different pricing, of course, but
> >that's hard for SOE to do much about, I suspect.
>
>
> Plus it's confusing to new players. You see one version of Everquest
> with expansion x and another with expansion y. Which one do you get?
> They will probably do what I did and get EQ2 or another MMORPG instead.
>

Or you'll just by evolutions or one of the other releases that has them all
for the same price.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 2:49:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Almost all the people in my guild who retired/took breaks to play EQ2 are
back playing EQ1 and raiding with high frequency.

Infact the only people still playing are those who quit EQ many moons ago
(3+ months prior to launch) thus presumably killing their remaining ties
with the game already.

But yeah... were dieing /nod

-m
January 26, 2005 4:00:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

42 <nospam@nospam.com> writes:

> Similiarly EQ is a good game, but its been sitting on the shelves for 5
> years, and its got its own Sequel next to it, along with a variety of
> big name new titles. To top it off, EQ1, after you buy the expansions to
> catch it up costs more than EQ2.

Everquest Platinum costs $20, Omens of War costs $20, Everquest II
costs $40. Looks like the same price to me, pretty much, and OoW is
optional, especially to a newbie. Admittedly if you want to get both
OoW and Dragons of Norrath, once that's out, you'll end up spending
more than you would on EQ2, but then you'll have a lot more content
available, too (at least if you're happy soloing or can convince
someone to go there with you).

Distributors outside the US have different pricing, of course, but
that's hard for SOE to do much about, I suspect.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 4:10:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

-martin wrote:
>
> Almost all the people in my guild who retired/took breaks to play EQ2 are
> back playing EQ1 and raiding with high frequency.
>
> Infact the only people still playing are those who quit EQ many moons ago
> (3+ months prior to launch) thus presumably killing their remaining ties
> with the game already.
>
> But yeah... were dieing /nod

Well, in a sense, everyone on the planet is dying. We're not
immortal, and we know it. But even though I am middle aged, and in all
likelihood only have another fourtyish years left, I don't really think
of myself as dying. Sure, when my knee creeks a bit when I climb a set
of stairs I get a sense that I might be in a state of decline, but
dying? Naw.

I feel the same about EQL, in a way. I believe (its my opinion,
Biz) that new users are going to be allot less likely to pick up EQL
over EQII or WoW, once WoW is actually available again. It just makes
sense to me that people are more likely to pick up a newer game over
it's older parent given a choice. Sure, some will make the choice to
get EQL. But I don't think that the numbers of new users will make up
for the losses in population due to natural attrition in EQL.

But, I don't think that means EQL is dying. This is the game that
for years was the juggernaught of MMORPG's. It had a hugh population,
some of whom played with near fanaticism. Many people, I suspect, will
only quit playing when the last server goes dark or when the coroner
pulls the sheet over their head. If SOE is smart at all, (I know,
debatable) they will start releasing content that can be reasonably done
by guilds even with the smaller playerbase.

With just a bit of planning, EQL can trudge along with its creaking
knees for quite a while, I think.

--
Annie

AGE EverQuest Live FAQ:
http://www.icynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm

Mirrored at:
http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm

http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html
January 26, 2005 4:32:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <87sm4ojt85.fsf@pluto.elizium.org>, patrik@nordebo.com
says...
> 42 <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>
> > Similiarly EQ is a good game, but its been sitting on the shelves for 5
> > years, and its got its own Sequel next to it, along with a variety of
> > big name new titles. To top it off, EQ1, after you buy the expansions to
> > catch it up costs more than EQ2.
>
> Everquest Platinum costs $20, Omens of War costs $20, Everquest II
> costs $40. Looks like the same price to me, pretty much, and OoW is
> optional, especially to a newbie.

Hard to say. I've resisted buying OoW so far, but I'm missing out on
groups and drops. It doesn't take long in the modern EQ before you'll be
able to group in OoW... or missing out on groups because you don't have
it.

Furthermore, the box propaganda for oow has enough vagueness to suggest
that its relevant to all players, not just high level ones. And most
gamers know that in multiplayer games you generally need the latest
expansion if you want to find other players to play with.

DoN, on the other hand, if its successful, with its guild tools could
very well become a defacto requirement, just as PoP's PoK was... even to
players who would not see even the Plane of Tranquility for another
year.

> Admittedly if you want to get both
> OoW and Dragons of Norrath, once that's out, you'll end up spending
> more than you would on EQ2,

Around here:

EQ is 19.99
OoW is 19.99
DoN is 29.99

EQII is 34.99

Even not including DoN, EQ2 is cheaper around here.

> but then you'll have a lot more content
> available,

The value of more content is highly disputable. Most of its obsolete,
most of its abandoned.

> too (at least if you're happy soloing or can convince
> someone to go there with you).

Good luck with that :)  It can be done, but its a herculean effort.

Meanwhile in EQ2 at least the content and focus is still geared towards
you the lowbie/newbie. And most of the playerbase is in your level
range...

Many potential players know all this, factor in that EQ2 is newer, and
cheaper, and more likely to get future expansions than EQ1 is...
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 5:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 2005-01-26, -martin <nospam-villa_nospam_@cheerful.com> wrote:
> Almost all the people in my guild who retired/took breaks to play EQ2 are
> back playing EQ1 and raiding with high frequency.
>
> Infact the only people still playing are those who quit EQ many moons ago
> (3+ months prior to launch) thus presumably killing their remaining ties
> with the game already.
>
> But yeah... were dieing /nod
>
> -m
>
>

Despite the fact Naubi tells me tide is doing super duper
well (and stop being so mean to her! ;)  ), Tide is an exception;
EQ is down on server numbers and guilds are folding. That may
not be 'dying', but its sure as hell contracting.

Once my girl and I get bored of EQ2 maybe Suiddy will be back
on Venril demanding to know why she hasnt been trained recently ;) 

Right now though... shrug. I cant see converting her to a less
slick game than EQ2.

Matt
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 10:06:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> While it is true, I expect there are a lot less new players, there are
> still many many old players who continue to play and have fun. Slowly
> over time there will likely be attrition, and eventually, SoE will pull
> the plug, but I don't expect to see that for quite some time yet.

EQ1 will survive a while yet...after all, this is SOE we're talking
about: As server populations drop, SOE is probably counting on
bleeding people dry. Can you say, "Server transfer charges"?

If there's one constant in the universe you can count on, it's SOE
being over-the-top greedy bastards.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 10:49:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"-martin" <nospam-villa_nospam_@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:35peecF4qdq8hU1@individual.net...
> Almost all the people in my guild who retired/took breaks to play EQ2 are
> back playing EQ1 and raiding with high frequency.
>
> Infact the only people still playing are those who quit EQ many moons ago
> (3+ months prior to launch) thus presumably killing their remaining ties
> with the game already.
>
> But yeah... were dieing /nod
>

Back in your grave, monk boy!


--
Davian - Wood Elf Warrior on Guk
Talynne - Half Elf Rogue on Guk
Dearic - Dwarven Shaman on Guk
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 10:54:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95E95F123A816richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in news:1106623762.901193.151120
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Is Everquest Dying?
>>
> <snip>
>>
>> Some might argue with these definitions. Death, being a very general
>> and melodramatic term when used for a description of a computer game,
>> means different things to us all. To some it is the destruction of a
>> guild. To others it is an inability to find a group. To others it is
>> the point when previously powerful guilds are no longer able to defeat
>> encounters they once were or no longer able to progress beyond current
>> encounters. Others use the number of people in the bazaar to determine
>> death or population.
>
> Well, since EQ2 and WoW came out, we have defeated Xegony, and flagged
> ourselves for PoEB, as well as won against OOW encounters that prior to
> that had wiped us.
>
<snip>

I look foward to the time when there are 5 people and me on the Quellious
server. I will lead them and they will worship me.

Cladari
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 12:12:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95E95F123A816richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in news:1106623762.901193.151120
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Is Everquest Dying?
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Some might argue with these definitions. Death, being a very general
> > and melodramatic term when used for a description of a computer game,
> > means different things to us all. To some it is the destruction of a
> > guild. To others it is an inability to find a group. To others it is
> > the point when previously powerful guilds are no longer able to defeat
> > encounters they once were or no longer able to progress beyond current
> > encounters. Others use the number of people in the bazaar to determine
> > death or population.
>
> Well, since EQ2 and WoW came out, we have defeated Xegony, and flagged
> ourselves for PoEB, as well as won against OOW encounters that prior to
> that had wiped us.

Good for you and your guild. (Not sarcasm, genuine sentiment)
One does wonder, however, about the guilds both above and below you.

--
Simond
"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your
slave." - Jareth the Goblin King, Labyrinth
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 1:02:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Simond" <apocalypsecow@spamfilterdeletemeplease.dsl.pipex.net> wrote in
news:cKCdnU_BIOAsmmXcRVnyhg@pipex.net:

>
> "Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns95E95F123A816richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
>> "Mike Shea" <mshea01@gmail.com> wrote in news:1106623762.901193.151120
>> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Is Everquest Dying?
>> >
>> <snip>
>> >
>> > Some might argue with these definitions. Death, being a very general
>> > and melodramatic term when used for a description of a computer
game,
>> > means different things to us all. To some it is the destruction of a
>> > guild. To others it is an inability to find a group. To others it is
>> > the point when previously powerful guilds are no longer able to
defeat
>> > encounters they once were or no longer able to progress beyond
current
>> > encounters. Others use the number of people in the bazaar to
determine
>> > death or population.
>>
>> Well, since EQ2 and WoW came out, we have defeated Xegony, and flagged
>> ourselves for PoEB, as well as won against OOW encounters that prior
to
>> that had wiped us.
>
> Good for you and your guild. (Not sarcasm, genuine sentiment)
> One does wonder, however, about the guilds both above and below you.
>

Lol, well part of why we managed that was a slow influx of people from
dead and dying guilds above us... To be fair though, we have had a
steady slow influx from people burned out on full time raiding, people
who have no chance at getting any equipment upgrades with us at all for a
fair while. They still enjoy raiding, but, now have kids, or
girlfriends, or something else in RL going on, so, they come to us, about
the only alternative on our server. We are a serious part time raiding
guild, with a fixed raid schedule.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 20 Sage
Aviv, 11 Gnome Braeler, 14 Craftsman
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 3:51:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Davian" <davian@nospammindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bu6dnQy_eorkp2XcRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
> > Infact the only people still playing are those who quit EQ many moons
ago
> > (3+ months prior to launch) thus presumably killing their remaining ties
> > with the game already.
> >
> > But yeah... were dieing /nod
> >
>
> Back in your grave, monk boy!
> --
> Davian - Wood Elf Warrior on Guk
> Talynne - Half Elf Rogue on Guk
> Dearic - Dwarven Shaman on Guk

Shh, EQ2 sellout!

-m
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 9:38:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"-martin" <nospam-villa_nospam_@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:35peecF4qdq8hU1@individual.net...
>
> Almost all the people in my guild who retired/took breaks to play EQ2 are
> back playing EQ1 and raiding with high frequency.
>
> Infact the only people still playing are those who quit EQ many moons ago
> (3+ months prior to launch) thus presumably killing their remaining ties
> with the game already.
>
> But yeah... were dieing /nod

35% of the accounts on my server have been cancelled since WoW. Our
entire officer group save two left, and the two may still leave. Things are
so bad, I've been asked to be an officer. Glad to hear things are going well
on one of the few Euro-flagged servers, but on the many North American ones,
it's not pretty.

James
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 5:05:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
] I've seen a lot of people who left for EQ2 or WoW come back after a month
] or two.

WoW has the lousiest toon navigation system I've ever seen... Just
my opinion. Barely touch the left arrow and watch the toon spin. But
the /dance command does far more in WoW than EQ. Fewer broken quests
in WoW.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://wargame.drivein-jim.net/ WoW blog Jan 28, 2005
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Dec 29, 2004
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Everquest January 10, 2005
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 5:58:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net> wrote in
news:ql6lv09msoq6evs3amlfulhmekgae1en8t@4ax.com:

>
> Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>] I've seen a lot of people who left for EQ2 or WoW come back
after a
>] month or two.
>
> WoW has the lousiest toon navigation system I've ever seen...
Just
> my opinion. Barely touch the left arrow and watch the toon spin.
But
> the /dance command does far more in WoW than EQ. Fewer broken
quests
> in WoW.
>
> JimP.

Not sure we're playing the same game - mine seems just slightly
more responsive than EQ. Still not enough to keep someone from
circle strafing you though -- got to switch to the mouse for that.

--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
Lanys T'vyl (Retired)

Mairelon, 15th Paladin
Silverhand

My WoW Mods: http://therealorang.com
Yes, FlexBar 1.24 is out :) 
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 6:16:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> writes:
> The main complaint I have is,that there is not much to do while lfg.

Not much to do???

Let's see, I've got 3 active characters (though I'm mostly running
only two lately), who are working on various long quests, making
progress on some "tasks", farming for tradeskill ingredients, trying
to figure out the new quests that have been showing up ahead of the
coming expansion, chatting with guildies and other friends and just
whoever else happens to be around, asking around to see what focus
items I should be trying to upgrade to, practicing different tactics
(quadding, charming, fear-kiting, etc.), seeing if any lowbies can use
a helping hand (stick that in your EQ2 pipe!), exploring areas I've
never been to, trying to improve my faction in various part of the
Old World, and oh yeah, maybe even getting some solo xp.

Heck, I often feel like I've got so much to work on that I don't put
my LFG flag up because if I get into a group there'll be so many other
things I won't get around to!

-- Don.

p.s.: As I composed this, I kept having to go back and add more things
to the above list. It's probably still not complete. :-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 51 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 44 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 35 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
-- http://www.iCynic.com/~don
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:52:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Sean Kennedy <x@y.z> wrote:
] D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net> wrote in
] news:ql6lv09msoq6evs3amlfulhmekgae1en8t@4ax.com:
] > WoW has the lousiest toon navigation system I've ever seen...
] Just
] > my opinion. Barely touch the left arrow and watch the toon spin.
] But
] > the /dance command does far more in WoW than EQ. Fewer broken
] quests
] > in WoW.
]
] Not sure we're playing the same game - mine seems just slightly
] more responsive than EQ. Still not enough to keep someone from
] circle strafing you though -- got to switch to the mouse for that.

Well, if I could figure out why my character spins around in wow,
but doesn't in EQ 1, for the same left arrow pressure, I would use
what ever fix I came up with. Its expasperating. If it doesn't for
you, thats good, gives me hope.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://wargame.drivein-jim.net/ WoW blog Jan 28, 2005
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Dec 29, 2004
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Everquest January 10, 2005
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:00:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:16:07 GMT, Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> writes:
>> The main complaint I have is,that there is not much to do while lfg.
>
>Not much to do???
>
>Let's see, I've got 3 active characters (though I'm mostly running
>only two lately), who are working on various long quests, making
>progress on some "tasks", farming for tradeskill ingredients, trying
>to figure out the new quests that have been showing up ahead of the
>coming expansion, chatting with guildies and other friends and just
>whoever else happens to be around, asking around to see what focus
>items I should be trying to upgrade to, practicing different tactics
>(quadding, charming, fear-kiting, etc.), seeing if any lowbies can use
>a helping hand (stick that in your EQ2 pipe!), exploring areas I've
>never been to, trying to improve my faction in various part of the
>Old World, and oh yeah, maybe even getting some solo xp.
>
>Heck, I often feel like I've got so much to work on that I don't put
>my LFG flag up because if I get into a group there'll be so many other
>things I won't get around to!
>
> -- Don.
>
>p.s.: As I composed this, I kept having to go back and add more things
>to the above list. It's probably still not complete. :-)

Not much to do in the sense of making progress with a 65 Cleric or
67 Ranger,and I am talking about being lfg for 1 hour and more.

Meldur
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 9:34:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net> wrote in
news:ql6lv09msoq6evs3amlfulhmekgae1en8t@4ax.com:

>
> Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>] I've seen a lot of people who left for EQ2 or WoW come back after a
>] month or two.
>
> WoW has the lousiest toon navigation system I've ever seen... Just
> my opinion. Barely touch the left arrow and watch the toon spin. But
> the /dance command does far more in WoW than EQ. Fewer broken quests
> in WoW.

The social animations rock in eq2. /flirt is still my favorite.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 22 Dwarven Mystic, 20 Sage
Aviv, 12 Gnome Brawler, 14 Craftsman
March 5, 2010 3:03:47 PM

I know it's usually poorly received to bump very old threads, but given this is a forecasting thread, I thought an update would be appreciated. EQ1 has slowly lost members to EQ 2 and WoW throughout this time, but some interesting changes happened I don't think people expected.

Firstly, as WoW and EQ2 are far simpler than EQ1, the kids and, well, idiots have almost completely left EQ1. With the majority of 'new' subscriptions being returning players, and those that stayed having aged 5 years, the average age of the subscribers is certainly over 20 and probably in the 30s. At 27 I'm the youngest person in the management of my raiding organization. I haven't been KSed (kill-stealed) in years, and I've put 1 person on ignore over this whole time, versus the dozen or so in the first year of playing.

With a more mature subscriber-base, the game has evolved in a very different way to EQ2. The features that EQ1ers request are more bank spaces, tweaking raid content, or nostalgia events that allow them to fight old world bosses using their character as they currently are.

EQ has seen it's population dwindle, and servers gradually merge on down. Given the trend, yes I'm sure EQ will eventually 'die'. But EQ's longevity thus far has probably earned it an afterlife. I feel quite confident that by the time Sony decides to cancel EQ1, the community will be hosting private servers to house their characters, if indeed Sony doesn't release a final version to operate apart from their servers.

So hurrah for EQ1's 10 years so far, and I forecast around 5 further years in it's current state. Beyond that it's future depends on a time investment from the community, or an injection of cash from it's owners.

Wwein (Bristlebane server)
March 5, 2010 6:18:36 PM

I would predict that with the rise in popularity of social gaming, browser based games, and cloud computing games like EQ with small but rabidly loyal player bases could live on indefinitely (and even grow?) if they move to the aforementioned platforms. I would guess the biggest hurdle would be convincing such gamers to accept that type of model rather than the standard client-server model they've been used to for so long.
March 5, 2010 6:52:11 PM

Can we put this thread to bed now? Another can be started if the need arises until then this thread is going the same way as EQ.
!