Tom's Hardware: Topic Video games and internet=bad effects? Arguments!
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Pretend this is a real debate, take your sides, yes or no, provide arguments, do anything, but please, just make it well organized, so that I can observe, research, and note the arguments of each for my class debate, like yall helped Svol with.
Mine comes up in 2 weeks and I wanna load off the stress of looking for info, right now, by letting you guys do a debate.
So here's what it is, can computer content like video games or internet cause bad consequences? Of course, each side has many supporting arguments.
We have 5 aspects to cover at the debate, for this controversy:
-Physical
-Psychological
-Social
-Educational
-Violence
So, as much as you guys can provide, I am hoping that your arguments can cover these aspects. I am sure if some are not finding any arguments, this list will evoke some, as well.
So, again, assume this is a real debate, so I'll start and take part as well by providing my start-up:
Yes, I do think they do, and first and foremost it is because of the fact the length you spend can easily impair your senses, can cause lots of harm as well.
Time can cause also psychological trouble. When you stay too long and get hopped up on a game, your nervous system can go kooky, you will start becoming very nervous, react easily to the faintest of the surrounding's actions. You can get angry easily.
Additionally, a recent news had shown that a user had died at a LAN party after staying for over 10 hours IIRC.
Who has been through long hours of computing and has not had effects, who has seen computers make geniuses, and says NO can easily spark more out of this debate, as I am sure not everyone is saying YES and is objecting these machine marvels!
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This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. 
I would just like to remind you all that I stated the question as time indefinite. Yes that means I can say computers, video games, internet can cause problems, even if you use them for less than an hour.
So, with this in mind, I really hope some can add arguments from the other side, if they believe in so.
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Yeah, I suppose that sort of concentration is a bit unhealthy! Which is when we get back to parents making sure their little darlings don't get their hands on anything too bloodthirsty.
BTW, like the new sig. If only...
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I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite.
Flamethrower, you got a few good points there but one point:
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Aside from not having friends part and being shy around girls, I find that those points eerily sound like me. Hmm, come on man, there's nothing wrong with having comp geek friends and not having a gf. err....and what do you mean by enjoying yourself physically? 
Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
That's kinda double sided 
Firstly, I mean playing sports with friends, goin biking, or just on some of those nights when ur happy/hyper, running to the movie theater while having a snowball fight, etc.
U can guess the second meaning hehe.
Hilbert space is a big place.
Ahh, I feel we got a guy who could talk for the other side!
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Oh, thanks for the info, but damn!
No one out there has any possible arguments to defend the NO side?
I wonder how I should predict things now...
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Ya I know, but since I did not mention time, so they can have a chance to find something, I think education and social can be something they can easily develop against us. They can quite easily find arguments to support the fact computers teach, while my weapon is mostly time on all the aspects.
So I need to know how to rebutt those actual real life claims of computers/videogames/internet being educational, helpful for communication, etc.
I was hoping my thread would stir a debate, so I can see an active argumenting on both sides, to make it more realistic.
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| Quote : Additionally, a recent news had shown that a user had died at a LAN party after staying for over 10 hours IIRC. |
That´s a load of bull, it could be anything from some heart disease to whathaveya.
IIRC? speak english 
I think you can learn a few things from games, it depends on what kind of games you´re playing...if you´re into MOHAA, Halflife and such I doubt you learn anything useful, but look at games like CIV, AOE and other good strategy games, they have lots of info that I would not touch otherwise!
If you play strategy/chess games you probably learn to think 'forward' and you also exercise your memory and ability to handle many things at one time.
That people get violent from games might be true to some extent, but I don´t think people become massmurderers just because of that, that´s just nonsense.
Bad health by playing games? sure thang, my arm hurts from time to time...to remedy this I have started to take short breaks and 'exercise' from time to time, I rather do that
than stop using computers...Did we stop using bicycles when we discovered that you actually could crack your head wide open if you fell off of it? hell no!, we invented a bicycle helmet instead.
Psychological, don´t know really...some people might get 'too involved' in games and abandon
friends and such maybe.
<font color=blue>My sig, not yours</font color=blue>
It is more to convince the auditorium (the class) that they should be alert, and watch it when on these machines. I don't think there is a conclusion, but most definitly it is clear there CAN be effects. The issue is how someone can get them and if there are ways to alleviate them while being exposed to the content.
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| Quote : but look at games like CIV, AOE and other good strategy games, they have lots of info that I would not touch otherwise!
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That is very true, I concede to that.
However, isn't such info also possible to subtly come out from TV as well? And wouldn't that be saying also that if you did go through school, you did not get much education about history?
| Quote : If you play strategy/chess games you probably learn to think 'forward' and you also exercise your memory and ability to handle many things at one time.
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Alas if I went and thought Starcraft if I was a real general in a war, and said to my troops, let's do a RUSH attack, I'd look foolish. The majority of strategy games involve very odd strategies which often have masses attacking rather than organized troops like we see in wars like now. As well as real wars involve country-wide areas whereas strategy games often have a portion of a map. (let's not get into system speccs lagging because of intensive battles )
| Quote : Bad health by playing games? sure thang, my arm hurts from time to time...to remedy this I have started to take short breaks and 'exercise' from time to time, I rather do that
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And I applaud you for being determined and alert. My goal is exactly that, to have a poster boy like you, the kind that knows his limits and goes outside when it's too much. The problem here is: tell that to the others. We are surrounded by obese kids that do nothing but sit on the computer. Maybe the medical effect will not appear yet, after all video games have not been this immersive and pushing to be sitting on them for hours until in the 90s, so who knows exactly when the bad effects come in, when you are exposed?
Thanks for flexing my argumenting muscles Jake, you're an ace!
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| Quote : I work as an IT Support Analyst and spend most of every day looking at computers and trying to fix any problems. |
First of all, how many hours do you sit on the computer, and what type of breaks do you take and how often?
Then, have you ever checked the posture you take when you sit? Physically, are you sitting well or in a very lazy position?
| Quote : SO I play a lot of games, and I have for years and years, ever since I was a young child. |
I as well, since 1992. But I know my brother has lots of anger problems caused by computers, being hooked on them. The issue isn't whether you've been using them for years, it's whether you know HOW to use them, in life.
| Quote : My optemetrist tells me that my eyes have not been adversley affected by my years of computer use |
Again it all depends, have you been exposed to the monitor or the video game for tons of hours, every single day? Or did you occasionally sit down for many hours, like you claimed with Counterstrike?
| Quote : In conclusion, I would say that this argument will never reach a conclusion because people are just too darn different from each other.
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Yup, and that is what makes the debate hard but interesting in class. My goal is to really convince people to be alert, and this is what is the issue. On a general scale, there are many who simply cannot control themselves when they lose. I know my friend, who sometimes will yell so loud, almost really lose it when he gets shot in Counterstrike or many games. He just has anger problems. I know my brother has become anti-social due to his internet friends making him love their society more than the region we live in! Now he really seems to despise the french here in Quebec (not hate, just that he can't stand most of them).
The problem is that a lot can be affected, while some are simply more resilient. I know I really have internal anger management. I just don't see why I should go crazy and go hit a wall when losing! I do agree some should take tests, if not everyone. The government could establish some law or rule that children go take a special psychological test to see how they react to video games, or exposed computer content.
Now that I think about it, TIME INDEFINITE, porno can appear any time on a user's computer, even children. That is a bad effect in itself. Education-wise the child can easily become obsessive and learn a lot of bad content. He may even be taught to go do it at an early age and we all know how irresponsible births can occur. Social wise the kid may take dirty in front of anyone, or even feel tempted to streak. Or perhaps even do unconscious body play publically. I know in class our teacher told us once about some guy who's body language was a bit messed up. He was pulling his frontal area of the pants as if he was stretching it, but the guy just never knew about it. Until the teacher taped and showed him to help him try to stop that! Not trying to relate it to computer content but just making an example of unconscious body language. (at some point the dick could've stretched down the pants lol!)
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*writes on his notepad all this, drooling at the amount of bliss he will dish out at the opposing team*
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Sure, you can learn a 'few' things from the telly as well, believe it or not
But I think its more effective to create an addictive game, stuff it with loads of useful and correct info and then you give it to kids that really don´t give a crap about school and rather play games...
If that don´t work then replace the ordinary teacher with one that have lots of thestosterone and authority, the kids will learn, I promise you that
I did get thru school but that was a long time ago and I need to refresh my memory from time to time, its not like I speak with my friends about at what exact time the pyramids were constructed...
So if I can play a fun game and then have the luxury to learn/refresh at the same time then I don´t feel like I´m wasting my time completely
I don´t literally mean that you can command your own armies just because you played Starcraft or any other strategy game, I´m just saying that you learn to think in ways you would never think in otherwise because you are not normally exposed to such thinking...hmmm...I hope you get what I mean.
You know, problem solving...'oh if I go that way he blast me with his nukes, lets try this instead'...sounds basic but it probably keep your brain in trim, this is especially true in games like Harpoon (hardcore navy battle sim) and the like.
I don´t think the computers are the only ones to blame when it comes to fat kids, take a look at what people eat today...that in combination with little or no exercise is a bad idea.
We are really f**king with ourselves nowadays, we are not created for the kind of lifestyle we have today and it clearly shows in fat people.
<font color=blue>My sig, not yours</font color=blue>
The problem is not too many companies are pushing their employees who sit hours on the computer, to go do sports. Some do, they have gyms and often require a certain period of musculation. They also add in some healthy food bar cafeteria so employees won't go crazy on the greasy burgers.
Aside from that there are many people who are simply ignorant, they just think they can defy whatever health problems can appear. I have this chum who thinks nothing can happen, (he's on the opposing team) he sits endlessly on the comp, does not do sports anymore (used to be in soccer teams and winning trophies). I am eager to see his performance in the beep test in gym class next week. The guy really has overconfidence, thinks nothing can happen of something, when I tell him to watch out. It is mostly those people who I want to reach out to, those who say nothing can happen. That's the opposing team.
Now to find some hard-breaking news for educational purposes.
The way our debate session works in class, is that one team gives an intro, and abords their aspects and arguments. Then the next team comes in, reveals all their aspects. There is then a consultation period, where the team discusses which arguments to tackle and try to convince the audience otherwise. I am sure if that were not the case, we could've been easily exposed to concessions too often, and therefore weakening our teams' position. By targetting the arguments of the others, those we want to object, we open a door to being able to reply with little concessions, and more strong backed up arguments and examples of what says otherwise on a certain claim of theirs.
I am so damn nervous though, I absolutely suck when it comes to fast reacting in argumenting.
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The thing is, how do you know your brothers anger problems directly came from computer usage? The chances are that the dude has anger problems anyway, and would have them regardless of computer usage, its just that using a computer can frustrate people (playing games) in which the natural response of a person with anger problems will be to act violently/angrily.
I use to get mad when I played video games, especially Counterstrike. Normally I NEVER get mad, and I mean that. I am the most easy going person ever. And my anger would never spill out past Counterstrike. Then I realized getting mad is gay, so I stopped. Although now I still get somewhat frustrated when lame teammates make me lose at Warcraft III, but whatever... 
You said that your brother and friend cannot control themselves when they lose or whatever, and they get so mad at it. Well, sports do this to people to. Is sports the cause for such an anger problem? No, it isn't. These problems exist anyways, and just whatever you are into is the release of that anger.
Also, the computer didn't make your brother anti-social, other people did. It does not matter that these people live elsewhere and communicate through a keyboard. Your brother may have met a small group of people in real life who would make him feel and act the same, and only familiarize with that group. That activity is still being ant-social, as social interactions are restricted to one single group. The reason for this anti-sociality cannot be contributed solelyt to the use of a computer, just as the anger issues. It seems like your brother may have much deeper problems than just over-usage of the computer and video games, it's just that because he uses the computer alot, that is how these problems show themselves.
About the CyberCafe killing... It wasn't solely about the game. Apparantly in some areas those establishments are frequented by asian gangs, and the actual dispute revolved around rival gang "warfare" rather than Counterstrike.
The only problem I do see with video games is the potential for a lack of physical activity. But, you have the same problems with TV, and these problems are compounded by parents feeding their kids McDonald's twice daily. It isn't the video games or computer usage that is the problem, it is the lack of the users to responsibly use it, and therefore the blame should be placed on user and on bad parents not being good parents to their children, setting rules for what they should and should not do, and not the video games themselves.
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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>
The thing is, I didn't mention this until early on in this thread, but I did include the net as being an item that can cause effects.
The Internet in itself can mean anything from chat to web content and therefore, whether other people influenced him or not, is the same as saying a hero in a video game influenced someone, it does not matter, it came from a source, or through one, the video game.
What I am trying to send as message is mainly to those who believe that really it does nothing.
Another thing I notice, is that even in slight time usage on the computer, or video games, people can easily let go of things they were to do. I know I forget fast when I am on the comp and someone had told me something to do soon, or IS telling me something. Loss of attention can make a difference in perhaps doing something like turning off the gas and letting it go loose burning.
So here I am, with rather two goals in this controversy, convincing people that think nothing can happen or just ignore what you tell them, that yes something can happen, AND to convince the crowd to be alert and to watch out as even good tips can slip in our minds.
Now as for Grub, whaddya mean by thinking what everyone else is thinking from what I said?! HUMF! 
Get yer butt over here and explain young man!
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| Quote : Well, sports do this to people to. |
Yes but my aim is to prove that even under any kind of period exposed to the computer, you CAN expulse erratic behavior, especially if you have a history of it. Hell, anyone who never used to have weird behavior might show some just on the comp or video games, like you did. That's my point here, simple.
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