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First time I've ever de-guilded someone

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Anonymous
January 27, 2005 8:49:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

And I'll be honest, I almost enjoyed it even though the guy never did a
thing wrong while in the guild. Names have all been fictionalized but it's a
true story.

We recently had a level 42 Templar apply. Some of our most trusted members
grouped with him one night in Varsoons and they all recommended him to me as
a solid player. I told them what I always tell people in that situation:
have him post an introductory message to our site so we can start to get to
know him and get him started on his app. The Monk who wanted to sponsor him
said "He doesn't want to post, he just wants to talk to someone".

Me: "Um, there's a reason for the process we have in place, a post is a good
way for people in the guild who haven't grouped with him to get to know
something about him"
Sponsor: "He's not big on words"
Me: "Doesn't have to be, there's a very simple template already in place, he
can cut and paste, can't he"?
Sponsor: "But he's a great player, we shouldn't screw this one up over a
process issue. And man, we always need healers".
Me: "I'll talk to him"

Ok, maybe that was my first mistake, violating our own policy to make an
exception when I knew damned well why we had a process in the first place.
But one of the five principles of leadership that I've always adhered to is
"Challenging the Process". So I did. We invited the guy into the guild as a
special recruit and started getting him into guild groups in our event
schedule.

One night in guildchat this guy says "Hey Red, I remember you from beta when
you were running around getting people flagged for Firemyst". I chuckled and
asked "What was your name in beta"? His response: "I played an Elf mage
named Wiggo".

Hmm, I stopped on that immediately. I remember an elf named Wiggo, but not
from beta, but because it was on my ignore list in retail. I only have three
names on that list, all three there because of one incident that I vividly
recalled.

Me: "Did you play Wiggo in release"?
Recruit: "No, just in beta"
Me: "I'm sure I've run into an Elf named Wiggo in release"

Pause.

Recruit: "Someone else must have rolled that, maybe that's why the name
wasn't available to me in release."

I pondered the likelihood of that coincidence.

Me: "Do you know two players named Camai and Grenak"?

Long pause.

Recruit: (still in guildchat): "Aye, I used to hang with those guys. Hey
man, I'm sorry, Red, I'm sorry about that night".
Me: "Let's take this offline".

It turns out that one night while camping Crusaders in Stormhold for a
guildmate's AQ3, I was with a guild group camping the Crusader room waiting
on pops. We needed a few more and this was back when Crusader pops were
badly broken in SH, so they were at a real premium. There was even a backup
group sitting outside the room waiting for us to be done with our camp.
After sitting in this spot killing PHs for a while, in runs a group of three
players: Wiggo, Camai and Grenak. They were running around in circles
jumping like madmen, not saying a thing, not asking if we were camping the
room. One of us mentioned that we were in fact waiting on Crusaders, and one
of the guys outside the room piped in "And we're up after them". No
response.

A crusader pops. Wiggo attacks it and takes the spawn. Incredulous, we stand
there in silence while these guys run out of the room and disappear. Our
group is pissed and the guys outside the room are even more so, and I
suggest that we spread out a little to make sure that we're covering good
ground and keep our guard up to avoid this again.

A few minutes later, Wiggo and crew return. As you can guess, another pop,
another kill steal. Wiggo says "Ok, we have the two we needed, we're leaving
now" and starts running out. My wife is having a fit and our MT is losing
his cool while the guys out in the hall are threatening to kill. I say
something like "I'll remember you, Wiggo" and enter all three names in my
ignore list and try hard to maintain some control in a very tense situation.
At that point the unfortunate Wiggo stops, turns around to face me, and
laughs in our faces. And then runs off.

And now here he is, app'ing to my guild lol. He starts sending me a series
of insufferable, imploring tells.

"Red, ur not mad at me r u"
"Red, plz dont be mad at me it was n accident"
"Plz, we realllly needed that spawn, plz, it will never happen again i
promise. plz dont be mad"

This sudden reversion to childspeak was quite a different image than the one
portrayed in guildchat and I realized then why he didn't want to post: the
guy was seriously communications challenged. What a front he'd been putting
up in guildchat! Talk about a split personality.

I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.

Later that night I heard from a guildmate that the guy had been seen giving
away his stuff and leaving the game in disgust because it was "impossible
getting things done at a high level without groups and without a guild".
This guildmate asked why I had deguilded someone over a single KS incident,
without giving him a chance. I was only asked by this one person, no one
else felt the need to inquire, but his inquiry was genuine and respectful,
so I obliged with a response that laid out how his guild had standards that
made his membership actually mean something.

Was it a one-off? Who knows? Perhaps if the guy had been less reluctant to
post about himself and his game history, or hadn't lied to me about his
character, or hadn't gone out of his way to stop and laugh at us, maybe I'd
have been more inclined to give him a chance to redeem himself. But that
kind of behavior isn't acceptable for anyone wearing our guild tag, not even
once, and after he lied to me so blatantly and the sudden dramatic change of
personality, how could I ever trust him? But in the end, as I said to the
guildmate who inquired, just ask yourself why a level 42 *healer* is still
guild-less and has to leave the game because he can't find a guild and it
all adds up.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie

More about : time guilded

January 28, 2005 4:58:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <10vj693n9pa6t77@news.supernews.com>,
myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE says...

<snip great post>

Its nice to see a little comeuppance now and then. Warms my heart. :D 
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 8:46:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Bob Perez" <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
] once, and after he lied to me so blatantly and the sudden dramatic change of
] personality, how could I ever trust him? But in the end, as I said to the
] guildmate who inquired, just ask yourself why a level 42 *healer* is still
] guild-less and has to leave the game because he can't find a guild and it
] all adds up.

Sounds to me like you made the correct decision.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Dec 29, 2004
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Everquest January 10, 2005
Registered Linux user#185746
Related resources
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 11:47:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:06:58 GMT, bizbee <tuberoo@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Red, plz dont be mad at me it was n accident" about doing something
>like that <twice>?

Doing it twice, making a statement that indicated he did it on purpose
right afterwards, then laughing about it. Accident my ass.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 2:40:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>
> I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
> Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.

Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 3:40:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:40:27 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>>
>> I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
>> Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.
>
>Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
>apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P

You mean other than lying to the guild leader and pressuring to have
the application process changed for him so he could hide an unpleasant
past? I'll bet you that had the child been honest about his past and
displayed a capability and willingness to act civil, he wouldn't have
been removed. But he lied. To the guild leader. That alone is enough
to get you removed from most guilds, and god damned rightfully so.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 5:48:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Bob Perez" <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote in
news:10vj693n9pa6t77@news.supernews.com:

> And I'll be honest, I almost enjoyed it even though the guy never did
> a thing wrong while in the guild. Names have all been fictionalized
> but it's a true story.

< snip >

Sounds like you taught him a valuable life lesson. What goes around...

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 5:48:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:

> Sounds like you taught him a valuable life lesson. What goes around...

It sounds to me that Bob provided a good life lesson, indeed. But
some people are very lesson resistant. The fact that the recruit in
question was giving away all his stuff saying it was because the game
was impossible due to it being so hard to find a guild makes me think
that he might be the type to always blame others, rather than himself.
I doubt that he learned a thing.

--
Annie

AGE EverQuest Live FAQ:
http://www.icynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm

Mirrored at:
http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/age.faq.htm

http://www.derfy.net/agefaq.html
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:00:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Bob Perez wrote:
> "Red, ur not mad at me r u"
> "Red, plz dont be mad at me it was n accident"
> "Plz, we realllly needed that spawn, plz, it will never happen again i
> promise. plz dont be mad"
>
> This sudden reversion to childspeak was quite a different image than the one
> portrayed in guildchat and I realized then why he didn't want to post: the
> guy was seriously communications challenged. What a front he'd been putting
> up in guildchat! Talk about a split personality.
>


Not entirely related (to what is an excellent post, btw) but have you
noticed a fairly large amount of 'childspeak' (as you call it here) in
EverQuest 2? I've been suffering far too much of it in the game and it
has sometimes made communication difficult for me.

It could of course just be me :-)

--
Michael Greenhalgh
---
www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
---
MMORPGs
EverQuest:
Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

EverQuest 2:
Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

City of Heroes:
Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
---
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:00:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Palindrome <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
] My second big hate (a VERY close second) are those players who fail to
] realise that if I have clicked "no" to an invitation group once
] already, asking 5 more times in rapid succession is not going to
] change my mind. Ever.

I agree.

Or the player, doofus, who sent me a tell, then /ooc, demanding to
know if I had accidently hit 'n' all those 15 times or I just didn't
like him. Got added to my ignore list.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://wargame.drivein-jim.net/ WoW blog Jan 28, 2005
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Dec 29, 2004
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Everquest January 10, 2005
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:00:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

bizbee <tuberoo@earthlink.net> wrote:
] One may say "thx."

I always say thanks to a buff. But I spell it out using a hot key.
And if they say good luck, or something similar, I /bow as well.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://wargame.drivein-jim.net/ WoW blog Jan 28, 2005
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Dec 29, 2004
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Everquest January 10, 2005
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:13:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:48:25 GMT, Rumbledor
<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>Sounds like you taught him a valuable life lesson. What goes around...

I agree. This person shouldn't have made everyone miserable earlier
in the first place and now he had to pay the price by not getting
group and guilds. just like real life, you don't do business with any
jerks.

Booting someone from the guild is an unplesant business. I very
nearly booted one last month because of complaint he was ninja looting
and being AFK for more than a few minutes (leeching xp). he has since
then cleaned up his act.
--
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:23:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote in
news:35v2bnF4rl65iU1@individual.net:

> Bob Perez wrote:
>> "Red, ur not mad at me r u"
>> "Red, plz dont be mad at me it was n accident"
>> "Plz, we realllly needed that spawn, plz, it will never happen again
>> i promise. plz dont be mad"
>>
>> This sudden reversion to childspeak was quite a different image than
>> the one portrayed in guildchat and I realized then why he didn't want
>> to post: the guy was seriously communications challenged. What a
>> front he'd been putting up in guildchat! Talk about a split
>> personality.
>>
>
>
> Not entirely related (to what is an excellent post, btw) but have you
> noticed a fairly large amount of 'childspeak' (as you call it here) in
> EverQuest 2? I've been suffering far too much of it in the game and it
> has sometimes made communication difficult for me.
>
> It could of course just be me :-)
>

I can't say that I see any more of it in eq2 than I do in eq1, which is
to say that it happens at times, but not that often really.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 22 Dwarven Mystic, 20 Sage
Aviv, 11 Gnome Braeler, 14 Craftsman
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 6:52:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:40:27 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
> ><myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
> >>
> >> I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
> >> Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.
> >
> >Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
> >apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P
>
> You mean other than lying to the guild leader and pressuring to have
> the application process changed for him so he could hide an unpleasant
> past? I'll bet you that had the child been honest about his past and
> displayed a capability and willingness to act civil, he wouldn't have
> been removed. But he lied. To the guild leader. That alone is enough
> to get you removed from most guilds, and god damned rightfully so.

No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so (obviously with good
reason). If he had seriously wanted to lie about it, he would still be
lying about it and in the guild. Gives new meaning to "the truth with set
you free" and definitely convinced "Wiggo" to not bother telling the truth
next time, because he knows how that turns out. =P

As far as pressure to have an app process change, it happens all the time,
constantly. Some think it's too long, some thing it's too nosy, etc., etc.
As a leader of a guild, you ignore it, or you decide that it's a valid
change and change the system permanently, you never make exceptions.
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 8:45:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Michael Greenhalgh" <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35v2bnF4rl65iU1@individual.net...

> Not entirely related (to what is an excellent post, btw) but have you
> noticed a fairly large amount of 'childspeak' (as you call it here) in
> EverQuest 2? I've been suffering far too much of it in the game and it has
> sometimes made communication difficult for me.

I don't know that I've seen more of it lately, I generally play on the RP
servers -- in part because I feel this provides a greater chance of avoiding
those types -- and it doesn't seem to come up there very often. But I'll
share another perspective below.

I've thought about this issue and wondered why it bothers me to see people
speak like that. Am I a language snob? I mean, the goal is communication,
right? If the message is coming across, why should it bother me that someone
is using abbreviations like ur, ne1one, plz, grp, and so on? What is it
about these idioms that sets them apart from afk, brb, brt, omw, and for
that matter, Gratz! All of these terms have significant currency even on the
RP servers I frequent. Purists like Dark Tyger might not use them, but I'll
confess that I do and many, many others do too and not infrequently. If I'm
making my way over to an event I may say "On griffin in Ant3, omw", or "Afk
for bio, brb". Is this fundamentally any different?

On the issue of increased frequency lately, I'll tell you where I do see it.
My son (who moved out years ago) plays WoW and my wife and I have accounts
there that enable us to have fun interacting with him online. You would not
*believe* how utterly rare it is there to see anything approaching an
English sentence, either in the trade channels or in local communications.
It is absolutely standard to use terms like "ne1one", "ur" and "plz" and I'm
sure I seem like an oddball when I say "You're welcome" instead of "np". In
my experience, EverQuest2's raunchiest inhabitants are more respectful of
the language than the people we run into routinely throughout WoW. There
*is* a difference and it's not subtle.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 9:10:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"bizbee" <tuberoo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cFuKd.188$cl1.50@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> Interestingly, he remembered Red... If I do something unintentionally
> or by accident, I seldom remember names more than a short while,
> unless I had some long, protracted conversation or apology involved
> and become friends with the guy.

The guy remembered me from Beta, which isn't too surprising since I had
exactly the same name and character model (in fact, I saved the character
file and re-used it in release) and was an officer in a leadership position
both then and now. But I don't think he remembered the incident in Stormhold
until I brought it up, else he wouldn't have so readily revealed his
identity in the first place. I mean, he couldn't be *that* dumb, could he?

It was pretty revealing to me, however, when he started pouring out his
apology. It was evident at that point that he remembed enough to feel guilty
and apologize. I hadn't even said a thing about the incident. No accusation,
nothing. Just a couple of questions about some character names that could
have gone anywhere. But he remembered and he knew because he harbored the
guilty knowledge that he knew I knew, and the jig was up.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 9:16:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Faned wrote:

> <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
> >
> > I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
> > Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.
>
> Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
> apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P

OMG, yes, because apologies are SO hard to make. Typing out words you
might never mean or stand behind is a hard task, and that guy should be
given a lot of respect for this.

/sarcasm off

Given the guy lied several times, how in the world could anyone accept his
apologies? The whole idea behind an apology is that someone BELIEVES that
you are actually ashamed/regretful.


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jerelyn Foxeye -- http://www.foxeye-art.com

On Antonia Bayle (EQ):
[33 Iksar Templar] Viizanafyaeth Newleaf
[14 High Elf Brawler] Foxeye
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 9:16:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<foxeye@EEKSPAM.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Faned wrote:
>
> > <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
> > >
> > > I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
> > > Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.
> >
> > Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
> > apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P
>
> OMG, yes, because apologies are SO hard to make. Typing out words you
> might never mean or stand behind is a hard task, and that guy should be
> given a lot of respect for this.
>
> /sarcasm off
>
> Given the guy lied several times, how in the world could anyone accept his
> apologies? The whole idea behind an apology is that someone BELIEVES that
> you are actually ashamed/regretful.

You've shown me the error in my ways. I can't imagine why anyone would ever
BELIEVE any apology. It's just words. =)
Anonymous
January 28, 2005 9:22:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvku6j.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net...

> Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then
> actually
> apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P

Thank you. =P

I know that my opening sentence says pretty much what you're saying here,
but in retrospect it's clear that the guy lied about his past during his
recruitment period, and if that's not a violation of our rules (arguably it
is a violation of our code of conduct), it's certainly enough of a violation
of trust and common sense in my universe to justify the de-tag. In any case,
I didn't post this with the intent to solicit justification, but for the
sheer entertainment value.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 12:29:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
news:slrncvku6j.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net:

> <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>>
>> I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to
>> him. Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded
>> the guy.
>
> Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then
> actually apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P

O_o...-_-...O_o

You're kidding, right?

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 12:32:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Rumbledor wrote:

> O_o...-_-...O_o

Oh, that's brilliant!

*steals Rumbledor's idea for an emote*


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jerelyn Foxeye -- http://www.foxeye-art.com

On Antonia Bayle (EQ):
[33 Iksar Templar] Viizanafyaeth Newleaf
[14 High Elf Brawler] Foxeye
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 1:26:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
news:slrncvlce6.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net:

> <foxeye@EEKSPAM.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Faned wrote:
>>
>> > <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back
>> > > to him. Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I
>> > > de-guilded the guy.
>> >
>> > Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then
>> > actually apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P
>>
>> OMG, yes, because apologies are SO hard to make. Typing out words
>> you might never mean or stand behind is a hard task, and that guy
>> should be given a lot of respect for this.
>>
>> /sarcasm off
>>
>> Given the guy lied several times, how in the world could anyone
>> accept his apologies? The whole idea behind an apology is that
>> someone BELIEVES that you are actually ashamed/regretful.
>
> You've shown me the error in my ways. I can't imagine why anyone
> would ever BELIEVE any apology. It's just words. =)

The point is how is anyone supposed to believe him when he has already
represented himself as dishonest, not to mention rude, callous and
immature?

Do I think there is a chance the kid has actually changed his ways? Sure.
What are the chances of that truly being the case? I have no reason to
believe them to be great and every reason to believe otherwise.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 1:37:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvlcvj.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net...

> No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so (obviously with good
> reason). If he had seriously wanted to lie about it, he would still be
> lying about it and in the guild. Gives new meaning to "the truth with set
> you free" and definitely convinced "Wiggo" to not bother telling the truth
> next time, because he knows how that turns out. =P

Anyone who comes to that conclusion has learned the wrong lesson, but I
don't doubt it's what he'll take away from this.

> As far as pressure to have an app process change, it happens all the time,
> constantly. Some think it's too long, some thing it's too nosy, etc.,
> etc.
> As a leader of a guild, you ignore it, or you decide that it's a valid
> change and change the system permanently, you never make exceptions.

I learned long ago that I prefer to retain flexibility with this type of
decision. Depending on what's at stake, challenging the process is sometimes
the right thing to do and a rigid adherence to policy can be more damaging
than the loss of consistency occasioned by an exception. But I understand
the arguments favoring consistency, reasonable people differ on this point.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:00:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:40:27 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>>
>> I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
>> Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.
>
>Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
>apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P

I'd never accept any apology from a liar who'd been caught out in the
act of lying, because they'd just say ANYTHING to get their own way.
Life's too short to give people like that a second chance.




Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:04:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:48:54 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

>Sounds like he tried to avoid it, thought better of it and owned up to it,
>and apologized.

I think that he was weighing up the pros and cons of trying to lie his
way out of his own gaffe, decided he couldn't and was forced into a
situation where he had to apologise. Heck ,the turd had actually
laughed with glee in the face of the OP, reveling in his deeds and
demonstrating what calibre of person he was, for the world to see...

Oh yeah, that boy had REAL potential as a guildie... not.


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:05:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:40:29 -0800, Dark Tyger
<darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:40:27 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
>><myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>>>
>>> I told the guy I would discuss with the officer team and get back to him.
>>> Not much to discuss, but we did, and the next day I de-guilded the guy.
>>
>>Congratulations on de-guilding someone who broke no rules and then actually
>>apologized in spite of not having broken any rules. =P
>
>You mean other than lying to the guild leader and pressuring to have
>the application process changed for him so he could hide an unpleasant
>past? I'll bet you that had the child been honest about his past and
>displayed a capability and willingness to act civil, he wouldn't have
>been removed. But he lied. To the guild leader. That alone is enough
>to get you removed from most guilds, and god damned rightfully so.

Bloody right!



Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:17:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:15:08 -0600, D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net>
wrote:

>
>Palindrome <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>] My second big hate (a VERY close second) are those players who fail to
>] realise that if I have clicked "no" to an invitation group once
>] already, asking 5 more times in rapid succession is not going to
>] change my mind. Ever.
>
>I agree.
>
>Or the player, doofus, who sent me a tell, then /ooc, demanding to
>know if I had accidently hit 'n' all those 15 times or I just didn't
>like him. Got added to my ignore list.
>
>JimP.

Yup, saves a shedload of spam... Actually, one feature I like in
Knight Online (there are some clever ones...) is being able to turn
off getting invitations to group.

The other, (which isn't really pertinent to this thread, but I wish
other games would do) is being able to set up a little stall and
display stuff to sell. You actually DO get a little stall, and people
have got used to clustering together to form a sort of open-air bazaar
in the major towns. Nice idea...


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:17:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Palindrome" <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hnhlv0ld8926eu5od4f70ce1f7ha2momi9@4ax.com...

> The other, (which isn't really pertinent to this thread, but I wish
> other games would do) is being able to set up a little stall and
> display stuff to sell. You actually DO get a little stall, and people
> have got used to clustering together to form a sort of open-air bazaar
> in the major towns. Nice idea...

I *like* that idea! I've never liked the big auction houses/bazaars of EQ,
SWG, WoW and EQ2, I always preferred playing in the beta when a crafter had
to make his own markets based on word of mouth and could rely on the appeal
of being a convenient, local seller. The inevitable commoditization that
occurs with big auction houses takes away some of that experience for me and
the idea of local stalls to support local merchants is very appealing.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:55:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:52:43 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

>No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so

Only after he was called on it. He lied and, actually, only got into
the guild based on that lie. Thus, he gets the boot up the ass and out
the door.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:55:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Graeme Faelban wrote:

> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote in
> news:35v2bnF4rl65iU1@individual.net:
>
>
>>Bob Perez wrote:
>>
>>>"Red, ur not mad at me r u"
>>>"Red, plz dont be mad at me it was n accident"
>>>"Plz, we realllly needed that spawn, plz, it will never happen again
>>>i promise. plz dont be mad"
>>>
>>>This sudden reversion to childspeak was quite a different image than
>>>the one portrayed in guildchat and I realized then why he didn't want
>>>to post: the guy was seriously communications challenged. What a
>>>front he'd been putting up in guildchat! Talk about a split
>>>personality.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Not entirely related (to what is an excellent post, btw) but have you
>>noticed a fairly large amount of 'childspeak' (as you call it here) in
>>EverQuest 2? I've been suffering far too much of it in the game and it
>>has sometimes made communication difficult for me.
>>
>>It could of course just be me :-)
>>
>
>
> I can't say that I see any more of it in eq2 than I do in eq1, which is
> to say that it happens at times, but not that often really.
>

This would probably be related to the way I play the two games. EQ2 is
the one which my gaming clan play, and therefore I group and socialise a
lot, whereas in EQ1 I've never had the opportunity to meet many people,
so haven't witnessed the language yet.

--
Michael Greenhalgh
---
www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
---
MMORPGs
EverQuest:
Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

EverQuest 2:
Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

City of Heroes:
Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
---
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 3:12:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, Faned wrote:

> You've shown me the error in my ways. I can't imagine why anyone would ever
> BELIEVE any apology. It's just words. =)

*chuckle* Sarcasm notwithstanding, I really do feel that way at
times. The exceptions are when the person has demonstrated an
exceptional level of trustworthiness. Otherwise my feelings are "don't
bother to apologize. If you really are sorry, let it show in your actions,
and my opinion of you will improve."


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Jerelyn Foxeye -- http://www.foxeye-art.com

On Antonia Bayle (EQ):
[33 Iksar Templar] Viizanafyaeth Newleaf
[14 High Elf Brawler] Foxeye
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 4:11:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:49:16 -0800, "Bob Perez"
<myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:

<snip>

Heh - makes me appreciate even more the great bunch in my guild. :) 


--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 4:31:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:16:37 -0500, Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:19:24 +0000, Palindrome
><damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>>Yes, I agree - the wordless invite, oft-repeated in spite of no LFG
>>tag really bugs me.
>>
>>Strange, I thought I'd be a loner with that gripe, and that others
>>would think I was weird :D 
>>
>No, it's very annoying, rude and ignorant.
>
>Also confusing - why send an invite to someone simply becasue he's
>running past you ?

Yes, never figured how that would inspire an invitation to team up,
either.


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 4:31:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:31:20 +0000, Palindrome
<damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:16:37 -0500, Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:19:24 +0000, Palindrome
>><damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Yes, I agree - the wordless invite, oft-repeated in spite of no LFG
>>>tag really bugs me.
>>>
>>>Strange, I thought I'd be a loner with that gripe, and that others
>>>would think I was weird :D 
>>>
>>No, it's very annoying, rude and ignorant.
>>
>>Also confusing - why send an invite to someone simply becasue he's
>>running past you ?
>
>Yes, never figured how that would inspire an invitation to team up,
>either.
>

Worst thing is that you know the groups formed this way can't be good
groups. Seems to me it's an invitation for xp loss/debt/whatever it is
in whatever game.

I find it odd people call me antisocial when I take a moment to tell
them why I refuse to accept such invitations. ME?! Antisocial? They're
the ones that can't be bothered to talk to me before throwing an
invite!

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:55:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Palindrome <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
] Yup, saves a shedload of spam... Actually, one feature I like in
] Knight Online (there are some clever ones...) is being able to turn
] off getting invitations to group.

Sometimes my having 'no guild invites' or what ever it is, don't
remember offhand, puts a message up that someone's 'wanna group'
request was automatically ignored.

] The other, (which isn't really pertinent to this thread, but I wish
] other games would do) is being able to set up a little stall and
] display stuff to sell. You actually DO get a little stall, and people
] have got used to clustering together to form a sort of open-air bazaar
] in the major towns. Nice idea...

I think that would be great. It would certainly be something that
would work with a middleages type game.

JimP.
--
djim70 at tyhe cableone dot net. Disclaimer: Standard.
http://wargame.drivein-jim.net/ WoW blog Jan 28, 2005
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Dec 29, 2004
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Everquest January 10, 2005
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 1:39:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Quoth Bob Perez:

> The guy remembered me from Beta, which isn't too surprising since I
> had exactly the same name and character model (in fact, I saved the
> character file and re-used it in release)

Are character files stored client-side in EQ2???!!!???

--
Kitez les guards!
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:25:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"David Navarro" <david@alcaudon.com> wrote in message
news:20050129103919454+0000@usenet.force9.net...

> Are character files stored client-side in EQ2???!!!???

Yes, the character creation screen includes a Load/Save function that allows
you to save your character's model locally. This was available in beta and
the beta files continued working in release. I made all of my characters in
beta and used them all in release.

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:28:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:55:05 -0800, Dark Tyger
<darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:52:43 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
>>No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so
>
>Only after he was called on it. He lied and, actually, only got into
>the guild based on that lie. Thus, he gets the boot up the ass and out
>the door.

Damn right, too.


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:32:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:51:20 -0800, "Bob Perez"
<myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:

>
>"Palindrome" <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:hnhlv0ld8926eu5od4f70ce1f7ha2momi9@4ax.com...
>
>> The other, (which isn't really pertinent to this thread, but I wish
>> other games would do) is being able to set up a little stall and
>> display stuff to sell. You actually DO get a little stall, and people
>> have got used to clustering together to form a sort of open-air bazaar
>> in the major towns. Nice idea...
>
>I *like* that idea! I've never liked the big auction houses/bazaars of EQ,
>SWG, WoW and EQ2, I always preferred playing in the beta when a crafter had
>to make his own markets based on word of mouth and could rely on the appeal
>of being a convenient, local seller. The inevitable commoditization that
>occurs with big auction houses takes away some of that experience for me and
>the idea of local stalls to support local merchants is very appealing.

Yes - I was impressed too :)  When your little stall appears, the
first 3 (or is it 4?) items you are selling display their icons by
floating over your stall - sort of an advert or eye-catcher thing.
Then, you click the stall to see the rest of the stuff. Nicer than
the Bazaar in EQ, from an "atmosphere" perspective, at least!


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:33:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:25:42 -0600, ChrisB <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>If they don't bother to so much as ask before clicking invite, I either
>click no and keep going or just keep going. Goes away once you zone.


Aye, same here.


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:37:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>
> "Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrncvlcvj.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net...
>
> > No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so (obviously with good
> > reason). If he had seriously wanted to lie about it, he would still be
> > lying about it and in the guild. Gives new meaning to "the truth with set
> > you free" and definitely convinced "Wiggo" to not bother telling the truth
> > next time, because he knows how that turns out. =P
>
> Anyone who comes to that conclusion has learned the wrong lesson, but I
> don't doubt it's what he'll take away from this.

The "wrong lesson" can still be the "right lesson". Believe me, I was
implying that it was the wrong lesson, but in dealing with you it is
apparently still the "right lesson" because owning up to and apologizing for
something is obviously *not* the "right" thing to do.

> > As far as pressure to have an app process change, it happens all the time,
> > constantly. Some think it's too long, some thing it's too nosy, etc.,
> > etc.
> > As a leader of a guild, you ignore it, or you decide that it's a valid
> > change and change the system permanently, you never make exceptions.
>
> I learned long ago that I prefer to retain flexibility with this type of
> decision. Depending on what's at stake, challenging the process is sometimes
> the right thing to do and a rigid adherence to policy can be more damaging
> than the loss of consistency occasioned by an exception. But I understand
> the arguments favoring consistency, reasonable people differ on this point.

No, reasonable people "prefer to retain flexibility" by "deciding that it's
a valid change" and making it a part of the system, not by being wishy-washy
and making exceptions for individuals. A leader cannot show "favoritism"
of any sort and retain respect for long.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:37:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvnidm.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net...

> The "wrong lesson" can still be the "right lesson". Believe me, I was
> implying that it was the wrong lesson, but in dealing with you it is
> apparently still the "right lesson" because owning up to and apologizing
> for
> something is obviously *not* the "right" thing to do.

I'm very amenable to a genuine apology and my ability to forgive and forget
is there (remember, I'm the flexible guy :)  But I don't ignore the greater
context, it all goes into the mix and the overall picture here was what
determined the decision.

> No, reasonable people "prefer to retain flexibility" by "deciding that
> it's
> a valid change" and making it a part of the system, not by being
> wishy-washy
> and making exceptions for individuals. A leader cannot show "favoritism"
> of any sort and retain respect for long.

No, reasonable people recognize that slavish adherence to policy is not
always the best solution to a problem. Life just isn't that simple, and the
ability to recognize when it's appropriate to challenge the process is one
of the things that makes a good leader. You can argue that this wasn't an
appropriate exception to make, and I would entertain that argument, but I
wouldn't want to be part of any company or guild that couldn't retain the
flexibility to make the right choice in a given situation simply because it
was "against policy".

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:39:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:52:43 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
> >No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so
>
> Only after he was called on it. He lied and, actually, only got into
> the guild based on that lie. Thus, he gets the boot up the ass and out
> the door.

Go go reading comprehension. Come back and comment again after you
understand basic english and have something to say based on reality rather
than the DT version of events. =P
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 2:39:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:39:21 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:52:43 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>>
>> >No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so
>>
>> Only after he was called on it. He lied and, actually, only got into
>> the guild based on that lie. Thus, he gets the boot up the ass and out
>> the door.
>
>Go go reading comprehension. Come back and comment again after you
>understand basic english and have something to say based on reality rather
>than the DT version of events. =P

Hmm. Vague attacks without bothering to point out where I was off
base. Can't admit that you're wrong?

He lied on more than one occasion. First was a lie through omission.
Second was a blatant, bald-faced lie.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 3:12:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:45:34 -0800, "Bob Perez"
<myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:

>I've thovght abovt this issve and wondered why it bothers me to see people
>speak like that. Am I a langvage snob? I mean, the goal is commvnication,
>right? If the message is coming across, why shovld it bother me that someone
>is vsing abbreviations like vr, ne1one, plz, grp, and so on? What is it
>abovt these idioms that sets them apart from afk, brb, brt, omw, and for
>that matter, Gratz!

Well, the latter ones yov mention are all very handy for expressing
something pertinent a little more qvickly, which is handy in a typed
medivm. "MMORPG Shorthand" messages like OMW, BRB and so on are a
vsefvl way of conveying often-vsed actions/concepts that save typing
time when speed is of the essence. Gratz and Woot, while bordering on
Leetspeak are often vsed in a light-hearted manner, often as an
intentional parody of leetspeakers, althovgh kindly meant on my part.
A sort of hvmovrovs, tongve-in-cheek "hey, look, I can dvmb down to
vsing Leetspeak if I need to" thing.

Things like NE1, plz, grp are rarely typed in a sitvation where speed
and brevity are important, so, to me, jvst mean the typist is lazy,
stvpid or generally sloppy. They sovnd like the idiot-child of a
vnion between a svrfer and his airhead bimbo partner who spends her
time texting people 24/7. Needless to say, this means no grovp with
them, ever...

> If I'm making my way over to an event I may say "On griffin in Ant3, omw", or "Afk
>for bio, brb". Is this fvndamentally any different?

No, yov are compressing information, for brevity's sake, to redvce
grovp spam - at least in my opinion.

>Yov wovld not *believe* how vtterly rare it is there to see anything
>approaching an English sentence, either in the trade channels or in
>local commvnications.

I see more of this in AO than EQ, as well as that other thing that
pisses me off, spamming in capital letters. Lvckily, the majority of
players soon clamp down on this, and the amovnt of ridicvle
Leetspeakers/Ubernoobs attract soon cvres this :) )


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 3:50:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvnilh.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net...

> I assume, and the facts of the situation certainly suggest that assumption
> to be valid, that he knew there would be issues, and knew that Bob had no
> inclination to forgive, and would rather not bring it up at all if it
> could
> be avoided.

I don't think the facts as I've related them give any basis for an
assumption that I could not forgive lol, where do you get that?

--
Redbeard
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic and Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of the Willow Wood, City of Qeynos
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 4:17:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Palindrome <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in
news:75tmv0pjqmsrj5mkj7fv1n0vj70hu2ljfj@4ax.com:

> Anyone who invites me more than once, without so much as a "Hi" just
> goes straight to /ignore.
>

Makes me wonder, how many names can the ignore list hold, anyway?

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 5:06:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:55:52 -0600, D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net>
wrote:

>
>Palindrome <damon-nomad@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>] Yup, saves a shedload of spam... Actually, one feature I like in
>] Knight Online (there are some clever ones...) is being able to turn
>] off getting invitations to group.
>
>Sometimes my having 'no guild invites' or what ever it is, don't
>remember offhand, puts a message up that someone's 'wanna group'
>request was automatically ignored.

Hmmm, now THAT I must try out :) 

>] The other, (which isn't really pertinent to this thread, but I wish
>] other games would do) is being able to set up a little stall and
>] display stuff to sell. You actually DO get a little stall, and people
>] have got used to clustering together to form a sort of open-air bazaar
>] in the major towns. Nice idea...

>I think that would be great. It would certainly be something that
>would work with a middleages type game.

Yes, works quite well. I wish AO had a way to sell things that didn't
rely on using the Shopping Channels (a sort of OOC for selling/buying)
as the messages can more or less take over the chat screen :(  It
would be nice to be able to use a terminal to look at stuff players
are selling...


Palindrome
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 7:44:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> wrote:
>
> "Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrncvnidm.8ne.faned@wyld.qx.net...
>
> > The "wrong lesson" can still be the "right lesson". Believe me, I was
> > implying that it was the wrong lesson, but in dealing with you it is
> > apparently still the "right lesson" because owning up to and apologizing
> > for
> > something is obviously *not* the "right" thing to do.
>
> I'm very amenable to a genuine apology and my ability to forgive and forget
> is there (remember, I'm the flexible guy :)  But I don't ignore the greater
> context, it all goes into the mix and the overall picture here was what
> determined the decision.

I can agree with that. All I have to go on is what you posted here. =) I'm
assuming there must have been more to the story other than you being pissed
that someone "legally" beat you to something (no matter how much I might
consider it to be in poor taste, I will never fault someone for playing by
the rules, even if I don't like the results).


> > No, reasonable people "prefer to retain flexibility" by "deciding that
> > it's
> > a valid change" and making it a part of the system, not by being
> > wishy-washy
> > and making exceptions for individuals. A leader cannot show "favoritism"
> > of any sort and retain respect for long.
>
> No, reasonable people recognize that slavish adherence to policy is not
> always the best solution to a problem. Life just isn't that simple, and the
> ability to recognize when it's appropriate to challenge the process is one
> of the things that makes a good leader. You can argue that this wasn't an
> appropriate exception to make, and I would entertain that argument, but I
> wouldn't want to be part of any company or guild that couldn't retain the
> flexibility to make the right choice in a given situation simply because it
> was "against policy".

So if you find that there was a valid complaint with the system that
required an exception, why do you assume it would never happen again? If it
would *never* happen again, it's favoritism. If there's a possibility of it
happening again and requiring an exception, it is just good sense to modify
the existing policy to deal with it.

I wouldn't want to be a part of any company or guild that would make an
exception without investigating whether such an exception indicated a policy
change was needed.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 7:51:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:39:21 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
> ><darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:52:43 -0600, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >No, he owned up to it after trying to avoid doing so
> >>
> >> Only after he was called on it. He lied and, actually, only got into
> >> the guild based on that lie. Thus, he gets the boot up the ass and out
> >> the door.
> >
> >Go go reading comprehension. Come back and comment again after you
> >understand basic english and have something to say based on reality rather
> >than the DT version of events. =P
>
> Hmm. Vague attacks without bothering to point out where I was off
> base. Can't admit that you're wrong?
>
> He lied on more than one occasion. First was a lie through omission.
> Second was a blatant, bald-faced lie.

Quote from the original post to support your contention that he "only got
into the guild based on that lie". Here's the relevant portion so you don't
even have to look it up:

> We recently had a level 42 Templar apply. Some of our most trusted members
> grouped with him one night in Varsoons and they all recommended him to me as
> a solid player. I told them what I always tell people in that situation:
> have him post an introductory message to our site so we can start to get to
> know him and get him started on his app. The Monk who wanted to sponsor him
> said "He doesn't want to post, he just wants to talk to someone".
>
> Me: "Um, there's a reason for the process we have in place, a post is a good
> way for people in the guild who haven't grouped with him to get to know
> something about him"
> Sponsor: "He's not big on words"
> Me: "Doesn't have to be, there's a very simple template already in place, he
> can cut and paste, can't he"?
> Sponsor: "But he's a great player, we shouldn't screw this one up over a
> process issue. And man, we always need healers".
> Me: "I'll talk to him"
>
> Ok, maybe that was my first mistake, violating our own policy to make an
> exception when I knew damned well why we had a process in the first place.
> But one of the five principles of leadership that I've always adhered to is
> "Challenging the Process". So I did. We invited the guy into the guild as a
> special recruit and started getting him into guild groups in our event
> schedule.

But I see that you already realized your error and now claim simply a "lie
through omission." I won't start down that slippery slope, but I'll gladly
follow along dropping boulders the entire time should you decide to lead the
way. =)
!