Is this legal?

[josh_1413]

I would like to start a small, side job creating DVD movies from people’s digital photos for different occasions such as anniversaries, weddings, funerals, ect. I would also put music to them from their own CD’s that they have. Now here is the question. Is it legal for me to take songs off their CD’s and put it on a DVD video and make money off of the work that I have done? Thanks!

P.S. And YES i will give back their CD's!

 

[pat]

If they own the original, I wouldnt care. I would if you were not the owner of the music and using it to make profit.

But all your doing is to take their files, putting them together, and give them back.

But if you care, you can download full of royalties free music on the web. Just use Google.

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(")ώ(") This is my bunny..terminator!!!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'd say no it isn't illegal - They own the music, and they are paying you to put their music onto a DVD slide show. You're charging for the service or making the DVD, not the music itself.

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[Ned_Flanders]

ROFL - Your sigs always make my laugh!

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[pat]

Ahh.. it is now terminated...

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(=<b>˚</b>.'=)That was my bunny..terminator!!! Now terminated...

 

[llama_man]

I'd say no it isn't illegal - They own the music, and they are paying you to put their music onto a DVD slide show. You're charging for the service or making the DVD, not the music itself.

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I disagree. They own the CD the music is on, not the rights to the music itself. The CD sleeve will have a paragraph prohibiting unathorised "distribution, reproduction" yadda, yadda.
By ripping the music files and inserting them onto the DVD, the OP would be reproducing the music.
The fact that he's also intending to do this for profit makes it 100 times worse.

An analogy would be a movie you see at the cinema. If the Director uses a piece of music, he must pay royalties to the artist. Usually the artist will also insist on a listing in the credits too. The OP's intention is essentially the same - whilst the audience is of course much, much smaller.

As Pat says, you need to find some royalty-free music. Either that or find some local musicians / bands who will let you use their music cheap/for free. You'll be supporting local talent and they'd probably appreciate the publicity.

The other alternative is to look into how much it would cost to pay royalties for music. I don't know how much this would cost, or how easy it is. I know that pubs, etc, can buy CDs of music with the royalties pre-paid, but I don't know if they are allowed to be used in recorded media or only to be broadcast directly.

 

[pkquat]

As far as I know as long as the videos are for private / personal use of the person you made them for, it is legal. I know a few business that do this.

The slideshows with music cannot be made for presentations, public viewing, or for the the person you made them for to make a profit from the showing of the video / slideshow.

If the person requesting the videos will be using them for public display or for profit, then either you or person requesting the video must own the rights or pay royalties.

I think there also some royaly free exceptions too (so long as the person owns a copy of the music), possibly for weddings etc. I am not 100% sure about that though.

 

[Tung]

I think it's legal, because I've been doing it for awhile 8O and I agree with pkquat.

 

[llama_man]

Aaah, denial

 

[edklite]

forget what people think, they are not the law.

law is very simple, if its copyright then you can't do nothing with it. done.

 

[exculiber]

If it becomes morally acceptable, go for it. You're charging fees on the service you render for creating the package which is not an offense. Indeed you're giving a favor to song makers.
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[llama_man]

If it becomes morally acceptable, go for it. You're charging fees on the service you render for creating the package which is not an offense. Indeed you're giving a favor to song makers.

I disagree.

He would be violating copyright law by reproducing the recording without permission - which is expressly forbidden on the CD cover! How could this be any clearer?

Why do you think film and TV producers pay artists royalties for using their music? By your argument they wouldn't need to do so, since the "service" they provide is making a TV show, not copying music. and how is it a "favour" to the artist to not pay them royalties?

I mean no offence, but your logic is flawed.

The OP should get some professional legal advice, rather than relying on the opinion and hunches of people with no legal training.

 

[audiovoodoo]

Indeed you're giving a favor to song makers.

Because being associated with a picture of fat cousin joe from Alabama is really going to build a bands sales.. :roll:

Sorry but from everything this non lawyer has read whilst it might be on the smaller scale it would almost certainly be infringement of rights [/IANAL][/quote]

 

[joex444]

The OP posted it about 18 months ago, odds are the OP has come to some sort of decision.

Let's bury it.

 

[audiovoodoo]

Guess I should clean off my specs.. 8O

It was the llama scent that dragged me down here..

 

[llama_man]

Odds are the OP has finished serving his sentence by now...

 

[choknuti]

Wouldn't this come under fair use ? Sorry somewhat clueless regarding us copyright law.

 

[llama_man]

Making copies for profit? I very much doubt it.

 

[choknuti]

I meant since he is making the copy of the stuff owned by his clients and backing it up on a disk which will be used by the same said clients.

All he is doing is transferring from one type of media to another to transfer of owner ship involved. The information (songs) remain in the hand of one person.

Then again when the RIAA is involved anything goes

 

[llama_man]

But he's not "backing it up". He's using it as backing music to a slideshow / movie that he's processed. There is a subtle, but important, difference.


To re-iterate;

1. He is conducting a service
2. The service is not simply to copy the CD to a different media
3. He is getting paid for it.

Essentially, he is conducting a trade - whereby he gains an economic benefit from copying the music, without the rights holders' permission. He is making a product, using someone else's intellectual property to enhance his product, but refusing to pay the IP owner a share of the enhanced profit. Does that sound fair to you?

Looking at it a different way;
Owners of a CD (*) are usually allowed to make a back-up copy of their music under fair usage rules.
It gets a bit dodgy if you ask a mate to do it for you.
It gets even dodgier if it's a stranger who does it for you.
It gets dodgier still if you're PAYING the stranger to do it.
It is dodgy beyond belief if the stranger is not only copying the music, but PROCESSING IT AS WELL.


The fair usage rules are intended to allow people to make copies from CD to tape, etc to allow them to play their music in their cars, etc. They were not intended to allow small businesses to bypass paying royalties. I'd have thought that was abundantly clear.


(*) note the point: owners of a CD. They are NOT the owners of the rights to the music. In much the same way as when you purchase software, you do not inherit ownership of the intellectual property.

 

[pkquat]

I'll supply the twist. Lets say, its MY home movies and pictures, and I supply some music from CD's I own. The DVD is for my own PRIVATE use. Unless things have changed, this is covered under fair use. I am only transfering the song to a different media for private use.

If I pay someone to do this same thing for MY same usage, I am only paying for their compilation and creation services.

 

[choknuti]

It is dodgy beyond belief if the stranger is not only copying the music, but PROCESSING IT AS WELL.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I think that the above point is where the dodginess starts breaking the law.

 

[llama_man]

Nicely put. I can certainly see your point.

As far as I know, the "fair usage" rules aren't a legal right, but rather an informal extra-statutory concession from the rather Draconian copyright laws.
It's unlikely that an ESC would be loose enough to permit 3rd party copying.

In the circumstances you describe, it is diffcult to make much of a moral argument against it. However, moral arguments don't always make legal ones, so I'd still tread carefully. If they can't get the service provider for illegal copying, they might go after the client for non-permitted lending.

In short: don't become a test case and find out.