TheSandman
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TheAntipop
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man, and i just got my fop 32, i wished mine were coppers, hehe, mmmmmm, copper
it looks cool though, dont konw why they use that delta fan that is sooooo loud.
My name is Mud.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheAntipop on 03/01/01 07:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
it looks cool though, dont konw why they use that delta fan that is sooooo loud.
My name is Mud.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheAntipop on 03/01/01 07:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Helpmostimes
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There Is A Hedghog series That is all copper?Ita around 40$ Thats cheap...But There is another 1 that is around 90$..Not sure of the Manufact,but its the MAN.Thats What Ive read.Copper is not new,just the price.The FOB38 is a good 1...Just add a few fans And your set....A Full Tower is the only way!The sky is the limit on cooling.....
The hedgehog and copper heatsink beater is the ThermoEngine. I think you should check them out before you get a copper heatsink as the ThermoEngine has a sealed vessel containing some secret liquid (mixture of ammonia and alcohol i think) which transfers heat from a socket a slug directly to the fan.
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there you go again wusy.
if the hsf was 1000g, it still wouldn't crush the core.
3 things that crush cores
1. people who don't know what they are doing
2. wrong type of heat sink (related to #1)
3. too much clip pressure
The weight of the hsf is bad however for the socket clips, as they are plastic, can be broken off easier, and if that happens, you could be in trouble, although there are ways to get around it.
if the hsf was 1000g, it still wouldn't crush the core.
3 things that crush cores
1. people who don't know what they are doing
2. wrong type of heat sink (related to #1)
3. too much clip pressure
The weight of the hsf is bad however for the socket clips, as they are plastic, can be broken off easier, and if that happens, you could be in trouble, although there are ways to get around it.
The "secret liquid" in the ThermoEngine is just wax, ordinary paraffin and it's just to add mass. It has nothing to do with cooling. Read about it <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/cooling/themosonic/v604210/" target="_new">here</A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 03/02/01 10:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 03/02/01 10:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
TheSandman
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I think that only under xtreem heat will the wax actualy increase thermaly (when the wax melts?).
SANDMAN
SANDMAN
"jojo, what about the heavy HSF sitting on the core unproperly and grinding the core, wouldn't that wreck it too?
BTW most HSF need big preasure anyway."
sitting against the core unproperly?! Yes that would wreck it, but only because you put it on wrong and you don't know what you are doing, not because it's a heavy heat sink.
Of course heatsinks need alot of pressure to hold them on properly, the chip manufacturers have a specific clip pressure that the hsf makers are supposed to follow. Again, this clip pressure, if it is too much, it could wreck the core, but it has nothing to do with he weight of the heat sink.
BTW most HSF need big preasure anyway."
sitting against the core unproperly?! Yes that would wreck it, but only because you put it on wrong and you don't know what you are doing, not because it's a heavy heat sink.
Of course heatsinks need alot of pressure to hold them on properly, the chip manufacturers have a specific clip pressure that the hsf makers are supposed to follow. Again, this clip pressure, if it is too much, it could wreck the core, but it has nothing to do with he weight of the heat sink.
Actually Hardocp cut it open and found that there wasn't paraffin wax in it. They couldn't figure out what was, but something had lightly stained the inside.
Either way, I wouldn't use it. Under <A HREF="http://www.2cooltek.com/revised_test.html" target="_new">2cooltek.com's test</A>, the Thermoengine couldn't even cool down a 72 Watt peltier, it was the only one that couldn't. Keep in mind that the design of the Thermoengine blows air right under the heatsink <b>onto the motherboard's temperature sensor</b>, spoofing the motherboard into giving a lower temperature reading. High performance Alphas and Globalwins under motherboard testing still give about the same or lower temperature readings without blowing air directly onto the temperature sensor.
Bottom line is if it can't handle the heat of a 72 Watt peltier, I would by no means trust it to adequately cool down the heat of a T-Bird.
Either way, I wouldn't use it. Under <A HREF="http://www.2cooltek.com/revised_test.html" target="_new">2cooltek.com's test</A>, the Thermoengine couldn't even cool down a 72 Watt peltier, it was the only one that couldn't. Keep in mind that the design of the Thermoengine blows air right under the heatsink <b>onto the motherboard's temperature sensor</b>, spoofing the motherboard into giving a lower temperature reading. High performance Alphas and Globalwins under motherboard testing still give about the same or lower temperature readings without blowing air directly onto the temperature sensor.
Bottom line is if it can't handle the heat of a 72 Watt peltier, I would by no means trust it to adequately cool down the heat of a T-Bird.
> Keep in mind that the design of the Thermoengine blows air right under the heatsink
> onto the motherboard's temperature sensor, spoofing the motherboard into giving a lower temperature reading.
They have a fan which blows air right through the CPU onto the sensor inside the socket? No way. No more air will creep under the socket than would from any other fan.
>Bottom line is if it can't handle the heat of a 72 Watt peltier, I would by no means
> trust it to adequately cool down the heat of a T-Bird.
It did a beautiful job on HardOCP's T-bird.
>Under 2cooltek.com's test, the Thermoengine couldn't even cool down a 72 Watt peltier,...
2cool's methodology is wrong. This is proved by the fact that a realistic test, like HardOCP's, gives different results. Take all of 2cooltek's results and toss them in the trash. They are nonsense.
One of the thing's wrong with the 2cooltek method is that heatsinks with a small contact area, like the size of an Athlon/PIII slug, do not contact much of the Peltiers larger surface. A Peltier's conductivity along it's surface is very poor.(That's why you have to use them with thick heat spreaders.) Therefore the heatsinks do not conduct heat from the test Peltier effectively and the temperature measurements are misleadingly high compared to what it would be with a real CPU. OTOH, many heatsinks have a large flat base that covers the whole Peltier and more. I pointed this out to Mr. 2cool, but he seems to be immune to advice.
> onto the motherboard's temperature sensor, spoofing the motherboard into giving a lower temperature reading.
They have a fan which blows air right through the CPU onto the sensor inside the socket? No way. No more air will creep under the socket than would from any other fan.
>Bottom line is if it can't handle the heat of a 72 Watt peltier, I would by no means
> trust it to adequately cool down the heat of a T-Bird.
It did a beautiful job on HardOCP's T-bird.
>Under 2cooltek.com's test, the Thermoengine couldn't even cool down a 72 Watt peltier,...
2cool's methodology is wrong. This is proved by the fact that a realistic test, like HardOCP's, gives different results. Take all of 2cooltek's results and toss them in the trash. They are nonsense.
One of the thing's wrong with the 2cooltek method is that heatsinks with a small contact area, like the size of an Athlon/PIII slug, do not contact much of the Peltiers larger surface. A Peltier's conductivity along it's surface is very poor.(That's why you have to use them with thick heat spreaders.) Therefore the heatsinks do not conduct heat from the test Peltier effectively and the temperature measurements are misleadingly high compared to what it would be with a real CPU. OTOH, many heatsinks have a large flat base that covers the whole Peltier and more. I pointed this out to Mr. 2cool, but he seems to be immune to advice.
Actually 2cooltek's method is quite well respected. And on 2Cooltek's testbed the heatsink does not sit on the larger 40 x 40mm surface of the peltier. He has a 40 x 40mm copper collector plate with a 10 x 10mm slug on top of that to approxmate the CPU surface.
Not only is the conductivy of the copper surface good, but by putting the slug on the surface contact area is no larger than a CPU also. You aren't giving 2cooltek's method enough merit.
Whereas the motherboard testing of the Thermoengine allows Thermoengine's unique design to blow air right on to the temperature sensor and give false readings, 2cooltek's testing gave it a specific heat to handle and it was the only heatsink to date that couldn't handle it. I think that says something.
Not only is the conductivy of the copper surface good, but by putting the slug on the surface contact area is no larger than a CPU also. You aren't giving 2cooltek's method enough merit.
Whereas the motherboard testing of the Thermoengine allows Thermoengine's unique design to blow air right on to the temperature sensor and give false readings, 2cooltek's testing gave it a specific heat to handle and it was the only heatsink to date that couldn't handle it. I think that says something.
TheSandman
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Do to the design of the thermoengine I would not use it with a pelter this hsf was designed for the small cantact area of the p3 and athlon cpu's not the (in comparison to the cpu core) huge area of a peltet with the lack of contact area it will not perform as well.
SANDMAN
SANDMAN
Like I said in my earlier post, 2cooltek's testbed doesn't seat it on the huge contact area of a peltier.
You might want to take a look at it (follow the link in my earlier post). The heatsink does not rest on the peltier, but instead on a small copper slug no larger than a CPU. The copper slug gets it's heat from a 72 watt peltier. I wouldn't rest the base of the heatsink on the larger contact area of the peltier either, and neither did 2cooltek.
You might want to take a look at it (follow the link in my earlier post). The heatsink does not rest on the peltier, but instead on a small copper slug no larger than a CPU. The copper slug gets it's heat from a 72 watt peltier. I wouldn't rest the base of the heatsink on the larger contact area of the peltier either, and neither did 2cooltek.
>Whereas the motherboard testing of the Thermoengine allows Thermoengine's unique
> design to blow air right on to the temperature sensor and give false readings, ...
There is no way for air to blow directly on the temperature sensor. Its under the CPU and surrounded by the socket. So this explanation for the different test results is dead wrong.
It does blow air directly on the CPU ceramic pin carrier, which no doubt contributes to true cooling of the CPU, and not only the temperature sensor.
Anandtech just did a test using an artificial, controlled heat source (which duplicates a CPU), and it shows the Thermo-thingy to be excellent. (They also have a real life test with the same result.)
I apologize for assuming that 2cool was using the same test setup he used a year or so ago, when I quit reading his tests after realizing they were often inconsistent with every other review of the identical heatsink.
> design to blow air right on to the temperature sensor and give false readings, ...
There is no way for air to blow directly on the temperature sensor. Its under the CPU and surrounded by the socket. So this explanation for the different test results is dead wrong.
It does blow air directly on the CPU ceramic pin carrier, which no doubt contributes to true cooling of the CPU, and not only the temperature sensor.
Anandtech just did a test using an artificial, controlled heat source (which duplicates a CPU), and it shows the Thermo-thingy to be excellent. (They also have a real life test with the same result.)
I apologize for assuming that 2cool was using the same test setup he used a year or so ago, when I quit reading his tests after realizing they were often inconsistent with every other review of the identical heatsink.
I checked out 2cool's current HSF tests and his setup
looks OK.
His heat spreaders might not be thick enough to keep
the temperature within a few degrees over the surface
of the spreader, but I do not see how this could change
the ranking of the HSFs.(The diagrams from Peltier
manufacturers indictate that one needs one half inch
of aluminum.)
I see some implausible things compared to other sites.
The mammoth Swiftech MC370(big Delta fan)is among the
worst heatsinks, scoring 22.7F, but usually this is the
best performer. Then the Alpha PAL6035(big Delta fan)is near
the top, scoring 36.2F. Usually this Alpha is very good
but close to the GlobalWin FOP38 that scored only 23.4F.
As good as the Agilent Arcticooler is, I find it literally
unbelievable that it is a clear winner over the Swiftech.
I also do not see any reason the Thermoengine, or any
any big chunk of aluminum with fins, whether it contains a heat
pipe or not, should fail to stabilize, regardless of how
miserable a design it might be, providing it is making
good contact. I expect the sink was sitting minutely
askew on the CPU slug, which really is undetectable other
than for an out-of-control temperature. That possibly is
what happened to a lesser extent for the other two rotten
performers that looked like they ought to be decent; the Orfio
and especially the OCZ with four fans.
The top four performers had scores which seemed to break
away from the pack, but ordinarily they are very close to
the other sinks tested.
looks OK.
His heat spreaders might not be thick enough to keep
the temperature within a few degrees over the surface
of the spreader, but I do not see how this could change
the ranking of the HSFs.(The diagrams from Peltier
manufacturers indictate that one needs one half inch
of aluminum.)
I see some implausible things compared to other sites.
The mammoth Swiftech MC370(big Delta fan)is among the
worst heatsinks, scoring 22.7F, but usually this is the
best performer. Then the Alpha PAL6035(big Delta fan)is near
the top, scoring 36.2F. Usually this Alpha is very good
but close to the GlobalWin FOP38 that scored only 23.4F.
As good as the Agilent Arcticooler is, I find it literally
unbelievable that it is a clear winner over the Swiftech.
I also do not see any reason the Thermoengine, or any
any big chunk of aluminum with fins, whether it contains a heat
pipe or not, should fail to stabilize, regardless of how
miserable a design it might be, providing it is making
good contact. I expect the sink was sitting minutely
askew on the CPU slug, which really is undetectable other
than for an out-of-control temperature. That possibly is
what happened to a lesser extent for the other two rotten
performers that looked like they ought to be decent; the Orfio
and especially the OCZ with four fans.
The top four performers had scores which seemed to break
away from the pack, but ordinarily they are very close to
the other sinks tested.
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