Comparing EQ2 & WoW to EQ1

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
close call in EQ1.

One reason why they don't seem to be as exciting in WoW is that, in my
limited experience (now level 11), it seems much more predictable who
is going to win in WoW. My health bar seems to drop at a fairly fixed
rate as does the enemy's health bar. With EQ2's HOs this is less
constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a row or just
simply fail to land the next ability required in the HO. This can turn
a fight that you are easily winning into a close run thing or it could
end up killing you. On the other hand you can get a run of good HOs
turning a bad situation into a close win.

Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
EQ1.

I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
does - what do other people think?

steve.kaye
21 answers Last reply
More about comparing
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    Don Sly wrote:
    > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    > I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at
    level 11
    > in EQ1.

    There are several places to lose a corpse at about level 11:

    It's possible to lose a corpse in Befallen. If you go past the first
    locked door and die then you will not have a key to get back in. I
    used to solo in Befallen and it almost happened to me - I just got back
    through that door before dieing. If I hadn't got through it I would
    have had to kill that SK with no gear or as much gear as I could
    scrounge up with the money in my bank (not a lot unless I raided
    another character's bank account and that wouldn't even be available if
    this was your first character). Then, by the time I got back, chances
    are that the whole top room would have repopulated too. I forget what
    level I was when that happened but the first floor is about level 8 or
    10.

    I also nearly lost a corpse at level 12. I was a dark elf and went to
    the Ocean of Tears to try to find my way to Kunark without using the
    PoK. I landed on the dock and wandered around a bit until I
    encountered an elf who attacked me. I ran away and foolishly jumped
    into the water. I cast gate and was interrupted a few times before
    getting it off. I fainted three or four times at my bind point before
    I finally recovered. Had that last gate not succeeded I'd have left a
    corpse at the bottom of the sea which would have not been easy to get
    at all (if it was possible at all without outside help)

    Also, at level 12, enchanters need to get their pet spells from High
    Keep which means a trip through Kithicor Forest. That was a tough
    corpse for me to get - I didn't know exactly where it was and there are
    a lot of mobs there that can wipe a level 12 out in one attack (which
    was what caused my death in the first place)

    steve.kaye
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    > I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
    > amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
    > rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
    > lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
    > I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
    > missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
    > as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
    > close call in EQ1.
    >
    > One reason why they don't seem to be as exciting in WoW is that, in my
    > limited experience (now level 11), it seems much more predictable who
    > is going to win in WoW. My health bar seems to drop at a fairly fixed
    > rate as does the enemy's health bar. With EQ2's HOs this is less
    > constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a row or just
    > simply fail to land the next ability required in the HO. This can turn
    > a fight that you are easily winning into a close run thing or it could
    > end up killing you. On the other hand you can get a run of good HOs
    > turning a bad situation into a close win.
    >
    > Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
    > penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
    > a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
    > have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
    > lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
    > best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
    > the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
    > a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
    > may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
    > sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
    > be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
    > incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
    > In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
    > debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
    > EQ1.
    >
    > I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    > excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    > does - what do other people think?

    I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at level 11
    in EQ1.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    The
    > incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
    > In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
    > debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
    > EQ1.

    You don't lose any experience from death in WoW at all. You take a hit
    to your item's durability, and a larger one if you choose to rez at the
    spirit healer. In EQ2, besides the debuff, you also have the
    experience debt.

    I understand why some people like the challenge of death penalties.
    But I'm not one of them. I think this is probably because I cut my
    teeth on single player RPGs, where if you died, you just reloaded the
    game. In some games, you don't have to reload, but it's not really fun
    to recover from deaths, so why bother if you don't have to? I'm
    perfectly happy with WoW's death system...it gets you back in the game
    and playing as soon as possible, which is the whole point--less
    downtime, more fun.

    Heroic Opportunities definitely add an element of chance to fights in
    EQ2, but when solo they only ever made a difference if I was fighting
    mobs over my level or group ones anyway. It's the same as fighting a
    yellow con in EQ1, or an orange con/Elite mob in WoW--in order to
    survive, you have to do a little bit more than your usual battle plan.
    I know, as a hunter, there have been several fights that I only
    survived by suddenly remembering "Oh yeah, I have Scare Beast!" and
    fearing the add away. I did a quest last week where I had to kill the
    captains of three pirate ships in Stranglethorn Vale...and these ships
    were extremely tightly packed with nukers and rogues, so many that I
    rarely had a fight against less than two mobs, and once had to fight 5
    in a row because of bad luck with wanderes and runners I wasn't able to
    handle. I had to use spells I almost never used, like seeing through
    the eyes of my pet to look around corners, and I experimented with
    different pulling and aggro techniques. It was a blast that night, it
    was the biggest challenge I had ever overcome solo in any MMORPG. I
    died only once (my pet died about 10 times, hooray for Feign Death),
    and it was so nice to be able to come back, revive, and continue
    killing just ahead of repops. I didn't feel frustrated from dying at
    all...I just had fun.

    Game on,

    The Oneiromancer
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "Don Sly" <tdNOslySPAM@PLEASEsasktel.net> wrote in
    news:112rf8284j27q73@corp.supernews.com:

    >
    > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    >> I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
    >> amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
    >> rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games
    >> a lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to
    >> EQ1. I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion
    >> that the missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not
    >> seem to be as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the
    >> excitement of a close call in EQ1.
    >>
    >> One reason why they don't seem to be as exciting in WoW is that, in
    >> my limited experience (now level 11), it seems much more predictable
    >> who is going to win in WoW. My health bar seems to drop at a fairly
    >> fixed rate as does the enemy's health bar. With EQ2's HOs this is
    >> less constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a row or
    >> just simply fail to land the next ability required in the HO. This
    >> can turn a fight that you are easily winning into a close run thing
    >> or it could end up killing you. On the other hand you can get a run
    >> of good HOs turning a bad situation into a close win.
    >>
    >> Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the
    >> death penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at
    >> losing a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your
    >> corpse and you have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest
    >> in itself with lots of problems to overcome. You will be
    >> underpowered without your best gear. You may not have been paying
    >> attention to where you were in the zone and may have difficulty
    >> finding your corpse. It may be behind a locked door with the key to
    >> get through the door on your corpse. It may be behind a number of
    >> dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all sorts of problems to
    >> overcome with a great incentive to try - you would be without your
    >> best gear for a week if you can't get it. The incentive to find your
    >> corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less. In WoW you'll have to
    >> lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a debuff applied to you
    >> for a few days. This is hardley comparable to EQ1.
    >>
    >> I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    >> excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    >> does - what do other people think?
    >
    > I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at
    > level 11 in EQ1.
    >

    Well, I do, long before all the changes to make getting to level 10
    trivial. I did the run from Halas to Freeport at level 9 to buy a spell
    in Oasis of Marr. Made it to NK, got waylaid by a griffawn, and died
    somewhere trying to run away from it. Had to run all the way from Halas
    again, naked and blind, it was an adventure just getting into
    Blackburrow. Finally made it to NK, had to watch carefully for any of
    those red to me mobs, finally looted the corpse, made it to Freeport, got
    a bind, got my spell in Oasis, headed back to Halas after messing around
    in north ro for a while. On my way back, I found out that Highland Lions
    outrun sow speed, died again. Had to make the run from Freeport again,
    got my corpse, made it home to Halas.

    Another time, at around the same level, it was night, I was in
    Blackburrow, and I fell into the water, started to get eaten by the fish
    and a gnoll or two. I got very lucky and channeled a gate off before I
    died. Had I died there at the bottom of the water, I would have had to
    find someone to get my corpse for me, there was no way I was going to be
    able to get it myself.

    Sure, nowadays, with no CRs before level 10 or 11, and no xp loss untill
    10 or 11, it's much easire, not to mention the huge increase in xp you
    get. But, there was a time when EQ1 was actually a challenge for newbs
    at low levels.

    --
    On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
    Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

    On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
    Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
    Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk>
    wrote in message
    > constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a >
    > Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
    > penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
    > a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
    > have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself > EQ1.
    >
    > I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    > excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    > does - what do other people think?
    >
    > steve.kaye

    Likewise in AC 1 - it certainly added tension doing corpse run.

    You could lose one bit of your best armour or your favourite weapon but
    eventually it was changed to good items not currently worn/carried; better I
    think.

    Some of my best memories were corpse runs either solo, helping other or
    being helped.

    Guilds had emergency corpse recovery guys and u could give another player
    permission to loot your corpse and meet up for a grateful return.

    It did make solo dungeon crawls a bit of a non starter unless u striped your
    guy first.

    Now of course we just find a high lvl guy to grp or use alts )

    ATB
    Grimchrim
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    In article <1110299258.587822.214230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
    nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk says...
    >
    > Don Sly wrote:
    > > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    > > news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    > > I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at
    > level 11
    > > in EQ1.
    >
    > There are several places to lose a corpse at about level 11:
    >
    > It's possible to lose a corpse in Befallen. If you go past the first
    > locked door and die then you will not have a key to get back in. I
    > used to solo in Befallen and it almost happened to me - I just got back
    > through that door before dieing. If I hadn't got through it I would
    > have had to kill that SK with no gear or as much gear as I could
    > scrounge up with the money in my bank (not a lot unless I raided
    > another character's bank account and that wouldn't even be available if
    > this was your first character). Then, by the time I got back, chances
    > are that the whole top room would have repopulated too. I forget what
    > level I was when that happened but the first floor is about level 8 or
    > 10.

    Falling into a trap in Najena is another good place to lose a corpse at
    the lower levels. Even dieing at the bottom of blackburrow can make for
    an impossible CR depending on class.

    > I also nearly lost a corpse at level 12. I was a dark elf and went to
    > the Ocean of Tears to try to find my way to Kunark without using the
    > PoK. I landed on the dock and wandered around a bit until I
    > encountered an elf who attacked me. I ran away and foolishly jumped
    > into the water.

    Very foolish indeed. If your going to die and don't have locate/summon
    corpse head for a landmark not into the ocean. =)

    > I cast gate and was interrupted a few times before
    > getting it off. I fainted three or four times at my bind point before
    > I finally recovered. Had that last gate not succeeded I'd have left a
    > corpse at the bottom of the sea which would have not been easy to get
    > at all (if it was possible at all without outside help)

    Easy to get to, but if you didn't have a loc, perhaps hard to find =)

    > Also, at level 12, enchanters need to get their pet spells from High
    > Keep which means a trip through Kithicor Forest. That was a tough
    > corpse for me to get - I didn't know exactly where it was and there are
    > a lot of mobs there that can wipe a level 12 out in one attack (which
    > was what caused my death in the first place)

    I go through Rivervale. The trip through Kith to HH is trivial from
    there, especially if invis to undead. ... Or just make the trip around
    2-3pm (game time). A little patience is a virtue =)

    Dieing to wanderers in outside zones are generally trivial to recover
    from, provided you had the sense to /loc, or die by a landmark.

    But yeah, dieing deep in most dungeons with many classes is often
    impossible to recover from.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "42" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1c97b79b8e61fac4989a58@shawnews...

    > Falling into a trap in Najena is another good place to lose a corpse at
    > the lower levels. Even dieing at the bottom of blackburrow can make for
    > an impossible CR depending on class.
    >
    I fell through the tree at the top of Blackburrow, survived the fall but
    died from the mobs down below when I tried to find my way out.
    A guildie was kind enough to come and help me out for my CR....I so hate BB
    ;)
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    Jeff Lindholm wrote:
    > EQ1 - played since before the release. I liked the game, still do,
    but I
    > never thought it was 'exciting' to lose my corpse. Combat (at 11 like
    you
    > are talking) never had any real excitement except from adds, you
    pretty much
    > knew within the first 15 - 30 seconds if you were going to live or
    die as
    > well.

    I had excitement playing my dark-elf enchanter at about level 5 or 6.
    I was doing the newbie armour quests and died or nearly died a good
    number of times before I got the technique for killing the weakest of
    those mages you need to get for the blood stained cloaks. The problem
    was that I would target her and fire off a spell then she would fire a
    spell at me. Then shiney bob would run in and get killed too quickly.
    Then I tried the same and then ran in to help bob but that would put me
    too close to another, higher level, mage who would nuke me. The
    technique I worked out was to not summon my pet until after I had
    attacked the low level mage. When she nuked me then started to run in
    I would summon my pet and we could both take her out quite safely then.
    That was exciting and challenging at a very low level.

    I had a similar challenge this morning in WoW. I was attacking a level
    15 raptor (I'm was 12 at the time). I sent my pet in and fired my bow
    abilities as usual. The pet got eaten up very quickly and then shortly
    after so did I. For some reason I decided that I needed to succeed
    against this raptor. I died another couple of times before I
    remembered that I had some glue that could be used as a root. Using
    this I could keep him off me for a while and I could heal my pet and/or
    get a another of my higher damage bow abilities off. That was also
    challenging but I'm not sure that it was as exciting as the EQ1 example
    from before.

    It could just be a case of remembering the good times to be better than
    they were. I don't know.


    > EQ2 played it for the first month (wife did not like it and WoW came
    out and
    > she liked that) it was more exciting battle wise with the HO's as you

    > explained, but again I could usually tell if I was going to win sans
    adds
    > within the first 15 - 30 seconds as well.

    But even when you have decided that you are going to win this one it
    could all go horribly wrong with a bad set of HOs.


    > WoW still playing it, warrior & rogue more exciting that EQ2/EQ1,
    building
    > up rage to do that move to save you, building up combo points to do
    that
    > move to save you, you really don't know how it will turn out (well 11
    and
    > under you usually do, but if you get some luck shots in on the rogue,
    or
    > lots of rage on the war you can change the out come).

    I've not played a warrior or a rogue yet although I do intend to play
    both at some point. I always intended to play a rogue because I had
    heard about the combo points and finishing moves and thought that it
    sounded good.


    > I disliked the sharing of exp loss in EQ2, there are too many
    boneheads out
    > there, and yes I could play only with people I know, but then I never
    meet
    > anyone new.

    But, if the boneheads get you killed the experience debt sharing is
    good. If you are the tank, then the boneheads could very easily get
    YOU killed and then the shared exp debt makes them take some of the
    pain. Also, if you are the healer then a bonehead tank could easily
    get you killed too.


    > WoW's death penalty is more monetary in nature, you have to
    > repair your equipment, never any xp loss.
    > I think there could be a nice compilation of all 3 of these models.

    I had a bad night in WoW last night I must have died 5 or 6 times
    trying to get the quest item from Fizzle. I levelled shortly after and
    couldn't afford to buy all my new abilities. The monetary penalty of
    death in WoW is a fairly serious penalty but you don't necessarily feel
    the pain until much later. That disascociates the pain from the cause
    of the pain. I didn't even realise why I was so short of cash until I
    read your post.


    > For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times,
    and
    > tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse in
    the
    > pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee at
    the time
    > it happened they were pissed off.

    I'm not saying that losing your corpse is fun - the are, usually, far
    from fun - I'm suggesting that the chance of losing your corpse
    increases the excitement of the game.

    steve.kaye
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    >
    >For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times, and
    >tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse in the
    >pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee at the time
    >it happened they were pissed off.
    >

    Absolutely, it's kind of like camping. But for me I have almost
    laughed my drink out my nose on some of the party wipes. And the 3 or
    4 subsequent deaths on the CR have also made me cry with laughter on
    occassion.

    Case in point. Group in CoM. Chanter friend logs on drunk, RL not
    game. He is hanging at bridge when I call for RUN, he ducks and hangs
    out. Being the Paladin I stay to the bitter end so all party members
    get out alive. But he's just doing a duckwalk between walls. Dead.
    I make it out after that and come back to rez him. As he's looting
    his corpse a train comes by, dead again. You had to be there but I'm
    laughing as I type remembering the visual and subsequent group say's
    afterwards.

    Yea I know, humor at someone else's expense. But that's what humor is
    anyway. Besides, when it happens to me I laugh just as hard.

    It's watching your mage go from 100 to 13 in a second and knowing
    there's jack you can do to keep him alive, but laughing because you
    know it's "game over man!" .It's getting beat down so fast you stand
    up just in time to see "Loading, Please wait...".

    Maybe I'm odd in enjoying those situations but the game is just damn
    fun, in alot of aspects.

    ~F
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On 8 Mar 2005 05:08:29 -0800, "steve.kaye"
    <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:

    >I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
    >amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
    >rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
    >lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
    >I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
    >missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
    >as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
    >close call in EQ1.

    Those fights are there in WoW but you'll never see most of them if you
    play for an hour at a time since most are in instances. If you're
    fighting elite mobs, the pacing of the combat reminds me a lot more of
    EQ. I think I've had more 'cool' fights in WoW than I did in over 5
    years of EQ. ... but if you're mainly soloing outdoors in WoW, you'll
    never see them.

    One thing EQ1 never figured out is that it can be just as much fun to
    fight multiple weaker mobs. EQ lost a lot of it's 'fun factor' for me
    when they started making you fight single mobs at higher levels
    because most groups just couldn't handle an add.

    >Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
    >penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
    >a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
    >have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
    >lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
    >best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
    >the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
    >a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
    >may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
    >sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
    >be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
    >incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
    >In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
    >debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
    >EQ1.
    >
    >I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    >excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    >does - what do other people think?

    I got over that attitude after my first 8 hour CR in Fear. CRs in EQ
    always meant that you just didn't go to some zones unless you had
    someone along to get your corpses out. Making death basically
    meaningless like in WoW does make the game loose a bit of excitement
    but I think it makes up for it by allowing you to try things that are
    way over your head, especially in groups.

    My biggest beef with WoW is that the zones have a 'gamey' feel to
    them. You'll never see a zone like the commonlands where you have to
    dodge Hill Giants and Griffons as a newbie and I miss that.

    Rgds, Frank
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Frank E wrote:
    > On 8 Mar 2005 05:08:29 -0800, "steve.kaye"
    > <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > >I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
    > >amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
    > >rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both
    games a
    > >lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
    > >I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that
    the
    > >missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to
    be
    > >as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of
    a
    > >close call in EQ1.
    >
    > Those fights are there in WoW but you'll never see most of them if
    you
    > play for an hour at a time since most are in instances. If you're
    > fighting elite mobs, the pacing of the combat reminds me a lot more
    of
    > EQ. I think I've had more 'cool' fights in WoW than I did in over 5
    > years of EQ. ... but if you're mainly soloing outdoors in WoW, you'll
    > never see them.

    I will probably see those fights at some point then because my playing
    pattern is such that, in most weeks, I play for an hour or so 3 days a
    week and 4 or 5 hours two days a week. I like to be able to solo for
    the shorter sessions and group for the longer sessions. I have one
    elite quest in my book that I'll probably try some time next week
    (after I have got at least a couple more levels).


    > >I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    > >excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    > >does - what do other people think?
    >
    > I got over that attitude after my first 8 hour CR in Fear. CRs in EQ
    > always meant that you just didn't go to some zones unless you had
    > someone along to get your corpses out.

    I must admit that I have never had such a CR. Maybe my thoughts on the
    matter might have been changed if I had.

    > Making death basically
    > meaningless like in WoW does make the game loose a bit of excitement
    > but I think it makes up for it by allowing you to try things that are
    > way over your head, especially in groups.

    There is that - as I discussed in another message in this thread I
    tried a raptor that was three levels above me several times (dieing
    each time) before I got the strategy right. I might not have done that
    had I been losing 10% of a level each time. On the other hand, last
    night I tried pulling a named mob out of a group to kill him for a
    quest. The whole group came and I died but not before I killed the
    named. I deliberatley ate another death to loot the corpse for the
    quest item. I feel that that action lessened the quest and my feeling
    of accomplishment at having completed it. If the penalty had been more
    then I might have approached more causiously and tried to pull the mobs
    apart from the group 1 or 2 at a time to get to the corpse (and
    probably eating more deaths that way but that's not the point).


    steve.kaye
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    Firian wrote:
    > In WoW, if you don't get your corpse, one way or another...you don't
    play.
    > It's much more realistic, to me, to be a ghost having to return to
    your
    > body, than to be perfectly sound and fleshed out while your corpse is
    lying
    > around somewhere. True, you can get the big ghost lady to rez you,
    but at a
    > big cost...75% damage to all your armor and weapons, whether worn or
    in your
    > bags. This can cost quite a bit of coinage to fix. Getting back to
    your
    > corpse is rarely a problem in WoW, but rezzing around your corpse can

    > be...especially if you died in the middle of a bunch of mobs that
    will aggro
    > on you as soon as you rez. In which case you'll most likely die
    again...and
    > have to do the whole thing over once more, hopefully having gotten
    far
    > enough away for it to 'stick' this time.

    I think that I read in the patch notes that the 75% damage has been
    reduced to 25% (but I wasn't paying too much attention so I could be
    wrong).


    > However, I'm confused when you say you 'lose some experience in
    WoW'...I've
    > never lost experience, that I've noticed, from dying. As far as I
    know,
    > there is no experience loss in WoW, just durability loss on your
    items.

    Yeah, I think that you are right. I must have half-read something or
    other that led me to believe that there was experience loss.


    > And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning!
    Seemless
    > transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
    > continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).

    That is really good isn't it.


    > I still love EQ1, don't get me wrong, but...I have cancelled my
    > subscription, since WoW is just, to me, a much better overall
    experience.

    I still like EQ1 and EQ2 as well. I'm not sure if EQ2 or WoW will win
    with me in the long run but a major factor is going to be that my
    machine runs WoW much much better than it runs EQ2. I have to run EQ2
    on the second worst graphics quality setting and I even have to turn
    the quality down in a lot of places when I am in a group.

    > Firian, 19th level Night Elf Hunter, Ner'zhul
    > Cheynne, 17th level Human Warrior, Ner'zhul
    > Widdershins, 22nd level Orc Hunter, Hellscream
    > Bovinis, 12th level Tauren Hunter, Bleeding Hollow
    > Cheynne, 14th level Tauren Shaman, Gorefiend
    > Putrescence, 10th level Undead Priest, Scarlet Crusade

    It seems that you like Hunters. :-)

    steve.kaye
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
    > penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
    > a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
    > have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
    > lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
    > best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
    > the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
    > a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
    > may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
    > sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
    > be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
    > incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
    > In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
    > debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
    > EQ1.
    >
    > I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    > excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    > does - what do other people think?

    In WoW, if you don't get your corpse, one way or another...you don't play.
    It's much more realistic, to me, to be a ghost having to return to your
    body, than to be perfectly sound and fleshed out while your corpse is lying
    around somewhere. True, you can get the big ghost lady to rez you, but at a
    big cost...75% damage to all your armor and weapons, whether worn or in your
    bags. This can cost quite a bit of coinage to fix. Getting back to your
    corpse is rarely a problem in WoW, but rezzing around your corpse can
    be...especially if you died in the middle of a bunch of mobs that will aggro
    on you as soon as you rez. In which case you'll most likely die again...and
    have to do the whole thing over once more, hopefully having gotten far
    enough away for it to 'stick' this time.

    However, I'm confused when you say you 'lose some experience in WoW'...I've
    never lost experience, that I've noticed, from dying. As far as I know,
    there is no experience loss in WoW, just durability loss on your items.

    And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning! Seemless
    transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
    continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).

    I still love EQ1, don't get me wrong, but...I have cancelled my
    subscription, since WoW is just, to me, a much better overall experience.

    --
    <><><><><><><><><><><><>
    Firian, 19th level Night Elf Hunter, Ner'zhul
    Cheynne, 17th level Human Warrior, Ner'zhul
    Widdershins, 22nd level Orc Hunter, Hellscream
    Bovinis, 12th level Tauren Hunter, Bleeding Hollow
    Cheynne, 14th level Tauren Shaman, Gorefiend
    Putrescence, 10th level Undead Priest, Scarlet Crusade
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:MPG.1c97b79b8e61fac4989a58@shawnews:

    > In article <1110299258.587822.214230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
    > nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk says...
    >>
    >> Don Sly wrote:
    >> > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    >> > news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... I don't
    >> > recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at level 11
    >> > in EQ1.
    >>
    >> There are several places to lose a corpse at about level 11:
    >>
    >> It's possible to lose a corpse in Befallen. If you go past the first
    >> locked door and die then you will not have a key to get back in. I
    >> used to solo in Befallen and it almost happened to me - I just got
    back
    >> through that door before dieing. If I hadn't got through it I would
    >> have had to kill that SK with no gear or as much gear as I could
    >> scrounge up with the money in my bank (not a lot unless I raided
    >> another character's bank account and that wouldn't even be available
    if
    >> this was your first character). Then, by the time I got back, chances
    >> are that the whole top room would have repopulated too. I forget what
    >> level I was when that happened but the first floor is about level 8 or
    >> 10.
    >
    > Falling into a trap in Najena is another good place to lose a corpse at
    > the lower levels. Even dieing at the bottom of blackburrow can make for
    > an impossible CR depending on class.
    >
    >> I also nearly lost a corpse at level 12. I was a dark elf and went to
    >> the Ocean of Tears to try to find my way to Kunark without using the
    >> PoK. I landed on the dock and wandered around a bit until I
    >> encountered an elf who attacked me. I ran away and foolishly jumped
    >> into the water.
    >
    > Very foolish indeed. If your going to die and don't have locate/summon
    > corpse head for a landmark not into the ocean. =)
    >

    Worse yet, do not run onto the boat. I did that once and died on the
    boat. Your corpse ends up at the bottom of the ocean at the spot where
    the boat zones out. I ended up riding the boat a couple times to
    determine the location of the zone out, then swam out and go the corpse,
    was quite an adventure. I did use a chipped bone rod to point me at the
    corpse even then, as it was still difficult to get the exact location.

    --
    On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
    Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

    On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
    Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
    Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:t0os21tjhd844uomf5b7rp4vpu2ir61cud@4ax.com:

    >
    >>
    >>For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times,
    >>and tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse
    >>in the pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee
    >>at the time it happened they were pissed off.
    >>
    >
    > Absolutely, it's kind of like camping. But for me I have almost
    > laughed my drink out my nose on some of the party wipes. And the 3 or
    > 4 subsequent deaths on the CR have also made me cry with laughter on
    > occassion.
    >
    > Case in point. Group in CoM. Chanter friend logs on drunk, RL not
    > game. He is hanging at bridge when I call for RUN, he ducks and hangs
    > out. Being the Paladin I stay to the bitter end so all party members
    > get out alive. But he's just doing a duckwalk between walls. Dead.
    > I make it out after that and come back to rez him. As he's looting
    > his corpse a train comes by, dead again. You had to be there but I'm
    > laughing as I type remembering the visual and subsequent group say's
    > afterwards.
    >
    > Yea I know, humor at someone else's expense. But that's what humor is
    > anyway. Besides, when it happens to me I laugh just as hard.
    >
    > It's watching your mage go from 100 to 13 in a second and knowing
    > there's jack you can do to keep him alive, but laughing because you
    > know it's "game over man!" .It's getting beat down so fast you stand
    > up just in time to see "Loading, Please wait...".
    >
    > Maybe I'm odd in enjoying those situations but the game is just damn
    > fun, in alot of aspects.
    >

    Nope, or at least if you are, I am too.

    Some of my fondest memories were of wipes and the subsequent CRs. One of
    my favorites was seeing the whole guild outfitted in mage summoned armor,
    wielding mage summoned weapons fighting our way back to our corpses. It
    was an absolute blast.

    --
    On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
    Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

    On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
    Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
    Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Frank E <fakeaddress@hotmail.com> wrote in
    news:O=AuQqxTyJg89TS7dtB4qrRQWOSZ@4ax.com:

    > On 8 Mar 2005 05:08:29 -0800, "steve.kaye"
    > <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
    >>amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
    >>rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
    >>lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
    >>I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
    >>missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
    >>as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
    >>close call in EQ1.
    >
    > Those fights are there in WoW but you'll never see most of them if you
    > play for an hour at a time since most are in instances. If you're
    > fighting elite mobs, the pacing of the combat reminds me a lot more of
    > EQ. I think I've had more 'cool' fights in WoW than I did in over 5
    > years of EQ. ... but if you're mainly soloing outdoors in WoW, you'll
    > never see them.
    >
    > One thing EQ1 never figured out is that it can be just as much fun to
    > fight multiple weaker mobs. EQ lost a lot of it's 'fun factor' for me
    > when they started making you fight single mobs at higher levels
    > because most groups just couldn't handle an add.
    >
    >>Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
    >>penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
    >>a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
    >>have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
    >>lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
    >>best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
    >>the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
    >>a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
    >>may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
    >>sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
    >>be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
    >>incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
    >>In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
    >>debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
    >>EQ1.
    >>
    >>I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
    >>excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
    >>does - what do other people think?
    >
    > I got over that attitude after my first 8 hour CR in Fear. CRs in EQ
    > always meant that you just didn't go to some zones unless you had
    > someone along to get your corpses out. Making death basically
    > meaningless like in WoW does make the game loose a bit of excitement
    > but I think it makes up for it by allowing you to try things that are
    > way over your head, especially in groups.
    >
    > My biggest beef with WoW is that the zones have a 'gamey' feel to
    > them. You'll never see a zone like the commonlands where you have to
    > dodge Hill Giants and Griffons as a newbie and I miss that.
    >

    In EQ, once you hit the maximum level, death became meaningless with
    corpse summoners available. It is even more meaningless now with the
    guild hall corpse summoner for a fee. When level 65 was the maximum
    level, and I had hit 65, and just kept 10% xp going into regular level, I
    ate almost 30 deaths over time until OOW upped the maximum level. I
    didn't care, and it made me feel free to try ludicrous things. At times
    I had to get a corpse summoner to help me get my corpse, but it was never
    hard to do.

    Even before the max level, with 96% rezzes available, death was pretty
    meaningless in EQ1 so long as your corpse was accessible. I tried all
    sorts of things long before I hit my maximum level just to see if I
    could.

    There were a few places where the CR was just totally ludicrous to do,
    but most zones, there were reasonable options, such as a necro or sk to
    summon the corpses.

    --
    On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
    Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

    On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
    Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
    Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On 9 Mar 2005 15:50:09 GMT, Graeme Faelban
    <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

    >In EQ, once you hit the maximum level, death became meaningless with
    >corpse summoners available. It is even more meaningless now with the
    >guild hall corpse summoner for a fee. When level 65 was the maximum
    >level, and I had hit 65, and just kept 10% xp going into regular level, I
    >ate almost 30 deaths over time until OOW upped the maximum level. I
    >didn't care, and it made me feel free to try ludicrous things. At times
    >I had to get a corpse summoner to help me get my corpse, but it was never
    >hard to do.
    I disagree with that one. Eating an unrezzed death always felt like a
    waste to me and I usually went out of my way to avoid it. ... which
    meant that (for my playstyle), where I hunted was often dependent on
    whether there was a rez available or not.

    >There were a few places where the CR was just totally ludicrous to do,
    >but most zones, there were reasonable options, such as a necro or sk to
    >summon the corpses.

    I don't see that as a 'reasonable' option. One of the (few) things I
    liked about PoP was the graveyards because it let me push the envelope
    and just see how far into a zone we could get before wiping and at
    worst you'd know that your corpse would pop at the zone line in about
    15 minutes.

    Rgds, Frank
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:08:55 GMT, "Jeff Lindholm" <jeff@lindholm.org>
    wrote:
    >For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times, and
    >tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse in the
    >pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee at the time
    >it happened they were pissed off.

    While this is true, it's also true for just about every other game
    I've ever had fun in. I get pissed off when I lose a CTF game in Halo
    2 because they snuck the flag into our base under our nose. I get
    pissed off in ESPN NFL 2K5 when, after gambling on a blitz the other
    team torches me with a deep pass. I remember slamming down the Atari
    5200 controller in frustration after falling inches short of reaching
    the finish line in Pole Position.

    The point is that I find challenging games more fun. These obstacles
    thrown in our way are there to make overcoming them that much more
    enjoyable. I believe this was a cornerstone of "The Vision" that
    Verant used to get made fun of over - but it worked. People kept
    coming back, and we had a helluva lot of fun.

    I too sometimes worry that they're making EQ1 "too easy". But I've
    been out of the game so I can't really say (yet). When I started
    playing, level 50 was an impossibly long way away. Even level 10 felt
    like an accomplishment back then (at least to me). In fact I resigned
    myself to the fact that I would never see 50 (eventually I did, long
    after most others, and it was sweet).

    What would be the fun of going into Blackburrow in the first place if
    there was no chance of getting into trouble? It was my favorite zone
    of those early days because it was chaotic and dangerous. It was also
    where I learned how to group and cooperate with others.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:1110387316.594639.214750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >
    >
    > I think that I read in the patch notes that the 75% damage has been
    > reduced to 25% (but I wasn't paying too much attention so I could be
    > wrong).

    Hmm, I didn't see that. Now, I know it's usually worded as 'Your equipment
    durability will be reduced to 25%' rather than saying it will be reduced by
    75%. That might be where you saw the 25% (or it might not be, it might be
    changed in a patch...at the moment, though, it's still 75% durability loss,
    or at least it was last night *grin*).

    >> And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning!
    > Seemless
    >> transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
    >> continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).
    >
    > That is really good isn't it.

    Totally. That was the thing I always hated the most about EQ1, the zoning.

    >> I still love EQ1, don't get me wrong, but...I have cancelled my
    >> subscription, since WoW is just, to me, a much better overall
    > experience.
    >
    > I still like EQ1 and EQ2 as well. I'm not sure if EQ2 or WoW will win
    > with me in the long run but a major factor is going to be that my
    > machine runs WoW much much better than it runs EQ2. I have to run EQ2
    > on the second worst graphics quality setting and I even have to turn
    > the quality down in a lot of places when I am in a group.

    EQ2 just never won me over. I played for a while, but eventually went back
    to EQ1...then a friend showed me WoW. Once I got it, I still played EQ1 a
    bit, but whenever I was on EQ1, I was bored and just kept thinking, 'I could
    be playing WoW right now...' So, I cancelled my subscription, which runs out
    the middle of this month.

    >> Firian, 19th level Night Elf Hunter, Ner'zhul
    >> Cheynne, 17th level Human Warrior, Ner'zhul
    >> Widdershins, 22nd level Orc Hunter, Hellscream
    >> Bovinis, 12th level Tauren Hunter, Bleeding Hollow
    >> Cheynne, 14th level Tauren Shaman, Gorefiend
    >> Putrescence, 10th level Undead Priest, Scarlet Crusade
    >
    > It seems that you like Hunters. :-)

    Heh, yes, I do actually. :) The Orc hunter has a raptor as a pet, the Tauren
    hunter has a Named scorpion as a pet (I kept the name, Death Flayer,
    although I had to lose the space when I renamed it to its original name),
    and the Night Elf hunter went through hell, literally, to get a vampiric
    duskbat as his pet (at level 12, he was running almost the full length of
    the Eastern continent, through zones 10-20 levels higher than he was, and
    facing certain death many times at the hand of the Horde (pvp server) to get
    to the Undead area to tame that bat. Half a hundred times he died on that
    historic run.). Although I like playing a warrior also (my current 'mains'
    are the night elf hunter and the human warrior), surprisingly so for myself.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

    Firian wrote:

    > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:1110387316.594639.214750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

    >>>And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning!
    >>
    >>Seemless
    >>
    >>>transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
    >>>continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).
    >>
    >>That is really good isn't it.
    >
    >
    > Totally. That was the thing I always hated the most about EQ1, the zoning.

    It never bothered me in EQ1, but in EQ2 it is something of a
    turn-off...their zoning does kind of reach piss-taking levels at times,
    especially in city travelling. I feel they shoot themselves in the foot
    in this respect, though I can understand them wanting to keep lag down,
    I've noticed WoW handles the total lack of zones with no impact on
    latency that I've seen.

    Either way, the lack of zoning in WoW is a breath of fresh air,
    especially when placed alongside the exceptionally speedy login.

    --
    Michael Greenhalgh
    ---
    www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
    www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
    www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
    ---
    MMORPGs
    EverQuest:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

    EverQuest 2:
    Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

    City of Heroes:
    Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
    ---
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Graeme Faelban wrote:

    > Some of my fondest memories were of wipes and the subsequent CRs. One of
    > my favorites was seeing the whole guild outfitted in mage summoned armor,
    > wielding mage summoned weapons fighting our way back to our corpses. It
    > was an absolute blast.

    Red raiders rock!

    I can remember outfitting the entire guild after a wipe in Fear.
    Everyone in red... mmm, good times.
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