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Comparing EQ2 & WoW to EQ1

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 8, 2005 8:08:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
close call in EQ1.

One reason why they don't seem to be as exciting in WoW is that, in my
limited experience (now level 11), it seems much more predictable who
is going to win in WoW. My health bar seems to drop at a fairly fixed
rate as does the enemy's health bar. With EQ2's HOs this is less
constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a row or just
simply fail to land the next ability required in the HO. This can turn
a fight that you are easily winning into a close run thing or it could
end up killing you. On the other hand you can get a run of good HOs
turning a bad situation into a close win.

Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
EQ1.

I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
does - what do other people think?

steve.kaye

More about : comparing eq2 wow eq1

Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 8, 2005 11:27:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Don Sly wrote:
> "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at
level 11
> in EQ1.

There are several places to lose a corpse at about level 11:

It's possible to lose a corpse in Befallen. If you go past the first
locked door and die then you will not have a key to get back in. I
used to solo in Befallen and it almost happened to me - I just got back
through that door before dieing. If I hadn't got through it I would
have had to kill that SK with no gear or as much gear as I could
scrounge up with the money in my bank (not a lot unless I raided
another character's bank account and that wouldn't even be available if
this was your first character). Then, by the time I got back, chances
are that the whole top room would have repopulated too. I forget what
level I was when that happened but the first floor is about level 8 or
10.

I also nearly lost a corpse at level 12. I was a dark elf and went to
the Ocean of Tears to try to find my way to Kunark without using the
PoK. I landed on the dock and wandered around a bit until I
encountered an elf who attacked me. I ran away and foolishly jumped
into the water. I cast gate and was interrupted a few times before
getting it off. I fainted three or four times at my bind point before
I finally recovered. Had that last gate not succeeded I'd have left a
corpse at the bottom of the sea which would have not been easy to get
at all (if it was possible at all without outside help)

Also, at level 12, enchanters need to get their pet spells from High
Keep which means a trip through Kithicor Forest. That was a tough
corpse for me to get - I didn't know exactly where it was and there are
a lot of mobs there that can wipe a level 12 out in one attack (which
was what caused my death in the first place)

steve.kaye
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 8, 2005 11:53:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
> amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
> rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
> lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
> I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
> missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
> as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
> close call in EQ1.
>
> One reason why they don't seem to be as exciting in WoW is that, in my
> limited experience (now level 11), it seems much more predictable who
> is going to win in WoW. My health bar seems to drop at a fairly fixed
> rate as does the enemy's health bar. With EQ2's HOs this is less
> constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a row or just
> simply fail to land the next ability required in the HO. This can turn
> a fight that you are easily winning into a close run thing or it could
> end up killing you. On the other hand you can get a run of good HOs
> turning a bad situation into a close win.
>
> Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
> penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
> a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
> have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
> lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
> best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
> the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
> a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
> may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
> sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
> be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
> incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
> In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
> debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
> EQ1.
>
> I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
> excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
> does - what do other people think?

I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at level 11
in EQ1.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 8, 2005 12:12:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

The
> incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
> In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
> debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
> EQ1.

You don't lose any experience from death in WoW at all. You take a hit
to your item's durability, and a larger one if you choose to rez at the
spirit healer. In EQ2, besides the debuff, you also have the
experience debt.

I understand why some people like the challenge of death penalties.
But I'm not one of them. I think this is probably because I cut my
teeth on single player RPGs, where if you died, you just reloaded the
game. In some games, you don't have to reload, but it's not really fun
to recover from deaths, so why bother if you don't have to? I'm
perfectly happy with WoW's death system...it gets you back in the game
and playing as soon as possible, which is the whole point--less
downtime, more fun.

Heroic Opportunities definitely add an element of chance to fights in
EQ2, but when solo they only ever made a difference if I was fighting
mobs over my level or group ones anyway. It's the same as fighting a
yellow con in EQ1, or an orange con/Elite mob in WoW--in order to
survive, you have to do a little bit more than your usual battle plan.
I know, as a hunter, there have been several fights that I only
survived by suddenly remembering "Oh yeah, I have Scare Beast!" and
fearing the add away. I did a quest last week where I had to kill the
captains of three pirate ships in Stranglethorn Vale...and these ships
were extremely tightly packed with nukers and rogues, so many that I
rarely had a fight against less than two mobs, and once had to fight 5
in a row because of bad luck with wanderes and runners I wasn't able to
handle. I had to use spells I almost never used, like seeing through
the eyes of my pet to look around corners, and I experimented with
different pulling and aggro techniques. It was a blast that night, it
was the biggest challenge I had ever overcome solo in any MMORPG. I
died only once (my pet died about 10 times, hooray for Feign Death),
and it was so nice to be able to come back, revive, and continue
killing just ahead of repops. I didn't feel frustrated from dying at
all...I just had fun.

Game on,

The Oneiromancer
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 8, 2005 6:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"Don Sly" <tdNOslySPAM@PLEASEsasktel.net> wrote in
news:112rf8284j27q73@corp.supernews.com:

>
> "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
>> amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
>> rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games
>> a lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to
>> EQ1. I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion
>> that the missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not
>> seem to be as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the
>> excitement of a close call in EQ1.
>>
>> One reason why they don't seem to be as exciting in WoW is that, in
>> my limited experience (now level 11), it seems much more predictable
>> who is going to win in WoW. My health bar seems to drop at a fairly
>> fixed rate as does the enemy's health bar. With EQ2's HOs this is
>> less constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a row or
>> just simply fail to land the next ability required in the HO. This
>> can turn a fight that you are easily winning into a close run thing
>> or it could end up killing you. On the other hand you can get a run
>> of good HOs turning a bad situation into a close win.
>>
>> Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the
>> death penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at
>> losing a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your
>> corpse and you have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest
>> in itself with lots of problems to overcome. You will be
>> underpowered without your best gear. You may not have been paying
>> attention to where you were in the zone and may have difficulty
>> finding your corpse. It may be behind a locked door with the key to
>> get through the door on your corpse. It may be behind a number of
>> dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all sorts of problems to
>> overcome with a great incentive to try - you would be without your
>> best gear for a week if you can't get it. The incentive to find your
>> corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less. In WoW you'll have to
>> lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a debuff applied to you
>> for a few days. This is hardley comparable to EQ1.
>>
>> I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
>> excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
>> does - what do other people think?
>
> I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at
> level 11 in EQ1.
>

Well, I do, long before all the changes to make getting to level 10
trivial. I did the run from Halas to Freeport at level 9 to buy a spell
in Oasis of Marr. Made it to NK, got waylaid by a griffawn, and died
somewhere trying to run away from it. Had to run all the way from Halas
again, naked and blind, it was an adventure just getting into
Blackburrow. Finally made it to NK, had to watch carefully for any of
those red to me mobs, finally looted the corpse, made it to Freeport, got
a bind, got my spell in Oasis, headed back to Halas after messing around
in north ro for a while. On my way back, I found out that Highland Lions
outrun sow speed, died again. Had to make the run from Freeport again,
got my corpse, made it home to Halas.

Another time, at around the same level, it was night, I was in
Blackburrow, and I fell into the water, started to get eaten by the fish
and a gnoll or two. I got very lucky and channeled a gate off before I
died. Had I died there at the bottom of the water, I would have had to
find someone to get my corpse for me, there was no way I was going to be
able to get it myself.

Sure, nowadays, with no CRs before level 10 or 11, and no xp loss untill
10 or 11, it's much easire, not to mention the huge increase in xp you
get. But, there was a time when EQ1 was actually a challenge for newbs
at low levels.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 8, 2005 9:37:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk>
wrote in message
> constant. You can get a buff HO two or three times in a >
> Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
> penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
> a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
> have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself > EQ1.
>
> I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
> excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
> does - what do other people think?
>
> steve.kaye

Likewise in AC 1 - it certainly added tension doing corpse run.

You could lose one bit of your best armour or your favourite weapon but
eventually it was changed to good items not currently worn/carried; better I
think.

Some of my best memories were corpse runs either solo, helping other or
being helped.

Guilds had emergency corpse recovery guys and u could give another player
permission to loot your corpse and meet up for a grateful return.

It did make solo dungeon crawls a bit of a non starter unless u striped your
guy first.

Now of course we just find a high lvl guy to grp or use alts )

ATB
Grimchrim
March 9, 2005 12:23:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

In article <1110299258.587822.214230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk says...
>
> Don Sly wrote:
> > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > I don't recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at
> level 11
> > in EQ1.
>
> There are several places to lose a corpse at about level 11:
>
> It's possible to lose a corpse in Befallen. If you go past the first
> locked door and die then you will not have a key to get back in. I
> used to solo in Befallen and it almost happened to me - I just got back
> through that door before dieing. If I hadn't got through it I would
> have had to kill that SK with no gear or as much gear as I could
> scrounge up with the money in my bank (not a lot unless I raided
> another character's bank account and that wouldn't even be available if
> this was your first character). Then, by the time I got back, chances
> are that the whole top room would have repopulated too. I forget what
> level I was when that happened but the first floor is about level 8 or
> 10.

Falling into a trap in Najena is another good place to lose a corpse at
the lower levels. Even dieing at the bottom of blackburrow can make for
an impossible CR depending on class.

> I also nearly lost a corpse at level 12. I was a dark elf and went to
> the Ocean of Tears to try to find my way to Kunark without using the
> PoK. I landed on the dock and wandered around a bit until I
> encountered an elf who attacked me. I ran away and foolishly jumped
> into the water.

Very foolish indeed. If your going to die and don't have locate/summon
corpse head for a landmark not into the ocean. =)

> I cast gate and was interrupted a few times before
> getting it off. I fainted three or four times at my bind point before
> I finally recovered. Had that last gate not succeeded I'd have left a
> corpse at the bottom of the sea which would have not been easy to get
> at all (if it was possible at all without outside help)

Easy to get to, but if you didn't have a loc, perhaps hard to find =)

> Also, at level 12, enchanters need to get their pet spells from High
> Keep which means a trip through Kithicor Forest. That was a tough
> corpse for me to get - I didn't know exactly where it was and there are
> a lot of mobs there that can wipe a level 12 out in one attack (which
> was what caused my death in the first place)

I go through Rivervale. The trip through Kith to HH is trivial from
there, especially if invis to undead. ... Or just make the trip around
2-3pm (game time). A little patience is a virtue =)

Dieing to wanderers in outside zones are generally trivial to recover
from, provided you had the sense to /loc, or die by a landmark.

But yeah, dieing deep in most dungeons with many classes is often
impossible to recover from.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 1:34:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"42" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c97b79b8e61fac4989a58@shawnews...

> Falling into a trap in Najena is another good place to lose a corpse at
> the lower levels. Even dieing at the bottom of blackburrow can make for
> an impossible CR depending on class.
>
I fell through the tree at the top of Blackburrow, survived the fall but
died from the mobs down below when I tried to find my way out.
A guildie was kind enough to come and help me out for my CR....I so hate BB
;) 
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 4:18:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Jeff Lindholm wrote:
> EQ1 - played since before the release. I liked the game, still do,
but I
> never thought it was 'exciting' to lose my corpse. Combat (at 11 like
you
> are talking) never had any real excitement except from adds, you
pretty much
> knew within the first 15 - 30 seconds if you were going to live or
die as
> well.

I had excitement playing my dark-elf enchanter at about level 5 or 6.
I was doing the newbie armour quests and died or nearly died a good
number of times before I got the technique for killing the weakest of
those mages you need to get for the blood stained cloaks. The problem
was that I would target her and fire off a spell then she would fire a
spell at me. Then shiney bob would run in and get killed too quickly.
Then I tried the same and then ran in to help bob but that would put me
too close to another, higher level, mage who would nuke me. The
technique I worked out was to not summon my pet until after I had
attacked the low level mage. When she nuked me then started to run in
I would summon my pet and we could both take her out quite safely then.
That was exciting and challenging at a very low level.

I had a similar challenge this morning in WoW. I was attacking a level
15 raptor (I'm was 12 at the time). I sent my pet in and fired my bow
abilities as usual. The pet got eaten up very quickly and then shortly
after so did I. For some reason I decided that I needed to succeed
against this raptor. I died another couple of times before I
remembered that I had some glue that could be used as a root. Using
this I could keep him off me for a while and I could heal my pet and/or
get a another of my higher damage bow abilities off. That was also
challenging but I'm not sure that it was as exciting as the EQ1 example
from before.

It could just be a case of remembering the good times to be better than
they were. I don't know.


> EQ2 played it for the first month (wife did not like it and WoW came
out and
> she liked that) it was more exciting battle wise with the HO's as you

> explained, but again I could usually tell if I was going to win sans
adds
> within the first 15 - 30 seconds as well.

But even when you have decided that you are going to win this one it
could all go horribly wrong with a bad set of HOs.


> WoW still playing it, warrior & rogue more exciting that EQ2/EQ1,
building
> up rage to do that move to save you, building up combo points to do
that
> move to save you, you really don't know how it will turn out (well 11
and
> under you usually do, but if you get some luck shots in on the rogue,
or
> lots of rage on the war you can change the out come).

I've not played a warrior or a rogue yet although I do intend to play
both at some point. I always intended to play a rogue because I had
heard about the combo points and finishing moves and thought that it
sounded good.


> I disliked the sharing of exp loss in EQ2, there are too many
boneheads out
> there, and yes I could play only with people I know, but then I never
meet
> anyone new.

But, if the boneheads get you killed the experience debt sharing is
good. If you are the tank, then the boneheads could very easily get
YOU killed and then the shared exp debt makes them take some of the
pain. Also, if you are the healer then a bonehead tank could easily
get you killed too.


> WoW's death penalty is more monetary in nature, you have to
> repair your equipment, never any xp loss.
> I think there could be a nice compilation of all 3 of these models.

I had a bad night in WoW last night I must have died 5 or 6 times
trying to get the quest item from Fizzle. I levelled shortly after and
couldn't afford to buy all my new abilities. The monetary penalty of
death in WoW is a fairly serious penalty but you don't necessarily feel
the pain until much later. That disascociates the pain from the cause
of the pain. I didn't even realise why I was so short of cash until I
read your post.


> For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times,
and
> tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse in
the
> pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee at
the time
> it happened they were pissed off.

I'm not saying that losing your corpse is fun - the are, usually, far
from fun - I'm suggesting that the chance of losing your corpse
increases the excitement of the game.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 5:41:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>
>For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times, and
>tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse in the
>pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee at the time
>it happened they were pissed off.
>

Absolutely, it's kind of like camping. But for me I have almost
laughed my drink out my nose on some of the party wipes. And the 3 or
4 subsequent deaths on the CR have also made me cry with laughter on
occassion.

Case in point. Group in CoM. Chanter friend logs on drunk, RL not
game. He is hanging at bridge when I call for RUN, he ducks and hangs
out. Being the Paladin I stay to the bitter end so all party members
get out alive. But he's just doing a duckwalk between walls. Dead.
I make it out after that and come back to rez him. As he's looting
his corpse a train comes by, dead again. You had to be there but I'm
laughing as I type remembering the visual and subsequent group say's
afterwards.

Yea I know, humor at someone else's expense. But that's what humor is
anyway. Besides, when it happens to me I laugh just as hard.

It's watching your mage go from 100 to 13 in a second and knowing
there's jack you can do to keep him alive, but laughing because you
know it's "game over man!" .It's getting beat down so fast you stand
up just in time to see "Loading, Please wait...".

Maybe I'm odd in enjoying those situations but the game is just damn
fun, in alot of aspects.

~F
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 10:19:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 8 Mar 2005 05:08:29 -0800, "steve.kaye"
<nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:

>I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
>amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
>rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
>lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
>I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
>missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
>as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
>close call in EQ1.

Those fights are there in WoW but you'll never see most of them if you
play for an hour at a time since most are in instances. If you're
fighting elite mobs, the pacing of the combat reminds me a lot more of
EQ. I think I've had more 'cool' fights in WoW than I did in over 5
years of EQ. ... but if you're mainly soloing outdoors in WoW, you'll
never see them.

One thing EQ1 never figured out is that it can be just as much fun to
fight multiple weaker mobs. EQ lost a lot of it's 'fun factor' for me
when they started making you fight single mobs at higher levels
because most groups just couldn't handle an add.

>Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
>penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
>a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
>have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
>lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
>best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
>the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
>a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
>may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
>sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
>be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
>incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
>In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
>debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
>EQ1.
>
>I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
>excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
>does - what do other people think?

I got over that attitude after my first 8 hour CR in Fear. CRs in EQ
always meant that you just didn't go to some zones unless you had
someone along to get your corpses out. Making death basically
meaningless like in WoW does make the game loose a bit of excitement
but I think it makes up for it by allowing you to try things that are
way over your head, especially in groups.

My biggest beef with WoW is that the zones have a 'gamey' feel to
them. You'll never see a zone like the commonlands where you have to
dodge Hill Giants and Griffons as a newbie and I miss that.

Rgds, Frank
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 11:45:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Frank E wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2005 05:08:29 -0800, "steve.kaye"
> <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
> >amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
> >rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both
games a
> >lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
> >I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that
the
> >missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to
be
> >as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of
a
> >close call in EQ1.
>
> Those fights are there in WoW but you'll never see most of them if
you
> play for an hour at a time since most are in instances. If you're
> fighting elite mobs, the pacing of the combat reminds me a lot more
of
> EQ. I think I've had more 'cool' fights in WoW than I did in over 5
> years of EQ. ... but if you're mainly soloing outdoors in WoW, you'll
> never see them.

I will probably see those fights at some point then because my playing
pattern is such that, in most weeks, I play for an hour or so 3 days a
week and 4 or 5 hours two days a week. I like to be able to solo for
the shorter sessions and group for the longer sessions. I have one
elite quest in my book that I'll probably try some time next week
(after I have got at least a couple more levels).


> >I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
> >excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
> >does - what do other people think?
>
> I got over that attitude after my first 8 hour CR in Fear. CRs in EQ
> always meant that you just didn't go to some zones unless you had
> someone along to get your corpses out.

I must admit that I have never had such a CR. Maybe my thoughts on the
matter might have been changed if I had.

> Making death basically
> meaningless like in WoW does make the game loose a bit of excitement
> but I think it makes up for it by allowing you to try things that are
> way over your head, especially in groups.

There is that - as I discussed in another message in this thread I
tried a raptor that was three levels above me several times (dieing
each time) before I got the strategy right. I might not have done that
had I been losing 10% of a level each time. On the other hand, last
night I tried pulling a named mob out of a group to kill him for a
quest. The whole group came and I died but not before I killed the
named. I deliberatley ate another death to loot the corpse for the
quest item. I feel that that action lessened the quest and my feeling
of accomplishment at having completed it. If the penalty had been more
then I might have approached more causiously and tried to pull the mobs
apart from the group 1 or 2 at a time to get to the corpse (and
probably eating more deaths that way but that's not the point).


steve.kaye
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 11:55:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Firian wrote:
> In WoW, if you don't get your corpse, one way or another...you don't
play.
> It's much more realistic, to me, to be a ghost having to return to
your
> body, than to be perfectly sound and fleshed out while your corpse is
lying
> around somewhere. True, you can get the big ghost lady to rez you,
but at a
> big cost...75% damage to all your armor and weapons, whether worn or
in your
> bags. This can cost quite a bit of coinage to fix. Getting back to
your
> corpse is rarely a problem in WoW, but rezzing around your corpse can

> be...especially if you died in the middle of a bunch of mobs that
will aggro
> on you as soon as you rez. In which case you'll most likely die
again...and
> have to do the whole thing over once more, hopefully having gotten
far
> enough away for it to 'stick' this time.

I think that I read in the patch notes that the 75% damage has been
reduced to 25% (but I wasn't paying too much attention so I could be
wrong).


> However, I'm confused when you say you 'lose some experience in
WoW'...I've
> never lost experience, that I've noticed, from dying. As far as I
know,
> there is no experience loss in WoW, just durability loss on your
items.

Yeah, I think that you are right. I must have half-read something or
other that led me to believe that there was experience loss.


> And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning!
Seemless
> transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
> continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).

That is really good isn't it.


> I still love EQ1, don't get me wrong, but...I have cancelled my
> subscription, since WoW is just, to me, a much better overall
experience.

I still like EQ1 and EQ2 as well. I'm not sure if EQ2 or WoW will win
with me in the long run but a major factor is going to be that my
machine runs WoW much much better than it runs EQ2. I have to run EQ2
on the second worst graphics quality setting and I even have to turn
the quality down in a lot of places when I am in a group.

> Firian, 19th level Night Elf Hunter, Ner'zhul
> Cheynne, 17th level Human Warrior, Ner'zhul
> Widdershins, 22nd level Orc Hunter, Hellscream
> Bovinis, 12th level Tauren Hunter, Bleeding Hollow
> Cheynne, 14th level Tauren Shaman, Gorefiend
> Putrescence, 10th level Undead Priest, Scarlet Crusade

It seems that you like Hunters. :-)

steve.kaye
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 1:40:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
> penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
> a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
> have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
> lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
> best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
> the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
> a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
> may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
> sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
> be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
> incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
> In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
> debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
> EQ1.
>
> I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
> excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
> does - what do other people think?

In WoW, if you don't get your corpse, one way or another...you don't play.
It's much more realistic, to me, to be a ghost having to return to your
body, than to be perfectly sound and fleshed out while your corpse is lying
around somewhere. True, you can get the big ghost lady to rez you, but at a
big cost...75% damage to all your armor and weapons, whether worn or in your
bags. This can cost quite a bit of coinage to fix. Getting back to your
corpse is rarely a problem in WoW, but rezzing around your corpse can
be...especially if you died in the middle of a bunch of mobs that will aggro
on you as soon as you rez. In which case you'll most likely die again...and
have to do the whole thing over once more, hopefully having gotten far
enough away for it to 'stick' this time.

However, I'm confused when you say you 'lose some experience in WoW'...I've
never lost experience, that I've noticed, from dying. As far as I know,
there is no experience loss in WoW, just durability loss on your items.

And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning! Seemless
transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).

I still love EQ1, don't get me wrong, but...I have cancelled my
subscription, since WoW is just, to me, a much better overall experience.

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><>
Firian, 19th level Night Elf Hunter, Ner'zhul
Cheynne, 17th level Human Warrior, Ner'zhul
Widdershins, 22nd level Orc Hunter, Hellscream
Bovinis, 12th level Tauren Hunter, Bleeding Hollow
Cheynne, 14th level Tauren Shaman, Gorefiend
Putrescence, 10th level Undead Priest, Scarlet Crusade
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 6:12:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:MPG.1c97b79b8e61fac4989a58@shawnews:

> In article <1110299258.587822.214230@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk says...
>>
>> Don Sly wrote:
>> > "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > news:1110287309.400618.35150@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... I don't
>> > recall any exciting close fights or hard to find corpses at level 11
>> > in EQ1.
>>
>> There are several places to lose a corpse at about level 11:
>>
>> It's possible to lose a corpse in Befallen. If you go past the first
>> locked door and die then you will not have a key to get back in. I
>> used to solo in Befallen and it almost happened to me - I just got
back
>> through that door before dieing. If I hadn't got through it I would
>> have had to kill that SK with no gear or as much gear as I could
>> scrounge up with the money in my bank (not a lot unless I raided
>> another character's bank account and that wouldn't even be available
if
>> this was your first character). Then, by the time I got back, chances
>> are that the whole top room would have repopulated too. I forget what
>> level I was when that happened but the first floor is about level 8 or
>> 10.
>
> Falling into a trap in Najena is another good place to lose a corpse at
> the lower levels. Even dieing at the bottom of blackburrow can make for
> an impossible CR depending on class.
>
>> I also nearly lost a corpse at level 12. I was a dark elf and went to
>> the Ocean of Tears to try to find my way to Kunark without using the
>> PoK. I landed on the dock and wandered around a bit until I
>> encountered an elf who attacked me. I ran away and foolishly jumped
>> into the water.
>
> Very foolish indeed. If your going to die and don't have locate/summon
> corpse head for a landmark not into the ocean. =)
>

Worse yet, do not run onto the boat. I did that once and died on the
boat. Your corpse ends up at the bottom of the ocean at the spot where
the boat zones out. I ended up riding the boat a couple times to
determine the location of the zone out, then swam out and go the corpse,
was quite an adventure. I did use a chipped bone rod to point me at the
corpse even then, as it was still difficult to get the exact location.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 6:44:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faeandar <mr_castalot@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:t0os21tjhd844uomf5b7rp4vpu2ir61cud@4ax.com:

>
>>
>>For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times,
>>and tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse
>>in the pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee
>>at the time it happened they were pissed off.
>>
>
> Absolutely, it's kind of like camping. But for me I have almost
> laughed my drink out my nose on some of the party wipes. And the 3 or
> 4 subsequent deaths on the CR have also made me cry with laughter on
> occassion.
>
> Case in point. Group in CoM. Chanter friend logs on drunk, RL not
> game. He is hanging at bridge when I call for RUN, he ducks and hangs
> out. Being the Paladin I stay to the bitter end so all party members
> get out alive. But he's just doing a duckwalk between walls. Dead.
> I make it out after that and come back to rez him. As he's looting
> his corpse a train comes by, dead again. You had to be there but I'm
> laughing as I type remembering the visual and subsequent group say's
> afterwards.
>
> Yea I know, humor at someone else's expense. But that's what humor is
> anyway. Besides, when it happens to me I laugh just as hard.
>
> It's watching your mage go from 100 to 13 in a second and knowing
> there's jack you can do to keep him alive, but laughing because you
> know it's "game over man!" .It's getting beat down so fast you stand
> up just in time to see "Loading, Please wait...".
>
> Maybe I'm odd in enjoying those situations but the game is just damn
> fun, in alot of aspects.
>

Nope, or at least if you are, I am too.

Some of my fondest memories were of wipes and the subsequent CRs. One of
my favorites was seeing the whole guild outfitted in mage summoned armor,
wielding mage summoned weapons fighting our way back to our corpses. It
was an absolute blast.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 6:50:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Frank E <fakeaddress@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:o =AuQqxTyJg89TS7dtB4qrRQWOSZ@4ax.com:

> On 8 Mar 2005 05:08:29 -0800, "steve.kaye"
> <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I have been playing EQ2 since it came out. I like to play for short
>>amounts of time (an hour or so - sometimes less) which is not very
>>rewarding in EQ2 so I decided to try WoW instead. I enjoy both games a
>>lot but something is missing from both of them when compared to EQ1.
>>I've been thinking about it and I have come to the conclusion that the
>>missing element is excitement. Close fights in WoW do not seem to be
>>as exciting as in EQ2 and they don't seem to match the excitement of a
>>close call in EQ1.
>
> Those fights are there in WoW but you'll never see most of them if you
> play for an hour at a time since most are in instances. If you're
> fighting elite mobs, the pacing of the combat reminds me a lot more of
> EQ. I think I've had more 'cool' fights in WoW than I did in over 5
> years of EQ. ... but if you're mainly soloing outdoors in WoW, you'll
> never see them.
>
> One thing EQ1 never figured out is that it can be just as much fun to
> fight multiple weaker mobs. EQ lost a lot of it's 'fun factor' for me
> when they started making you fight single mobs at higher levels
> because most groups just couldn't handle an add.
>
>>Another reason that I think EQ1 has a bit more excitement is the death
>>penalty. I don't mean the loss of experience and the chance at losing
>>a level. I mean the fact that all your stuff is on your corpse and you
>>have to go and get it. This can prove to be a quest in itself with
>>lots of problems to overcome. You will be underpowered without your
>>best gear. You may not have been paying attention to where you were in
>>the zone and may have difficulty finding your corpse. It may be behind
>>a locked door with the key to get through the door on your corpse. It
>>may be behind a number of dangerous mobs in a dungeon. There are all
>>sorts of problems to overcome with a great incentive to try - you would
>>be without your best gear for a week if you can't get it. The
>>incentive to find your corpse (or shard) in WoW and EQ2 is much less.
>>In WoW you'll have to lose some experience and in EQ2 you'll have a
>>debuff applied to you for a few days. This is hardley comparable to
>>EQ1.
>>
>>I know corpse runs are a bitch in EQ1 but does that enhance the
>>excitement and enjoyment of the game to compensate? I think that it
>>does - what do other people think?
>
> I got over that attitude after my first 8 hour CR in Fear. CRs in EQ
> always meant that you just didn't go to some zones unless you had
> someone along to get your corpses out. Making death basically
> meaningless like in WoW does make the game loose a bit of excitement
> but I think it makes up for it by allowing you to try things that are
> way over your head, especially in groups.
>
> My biggest beef with WoW is that the zones have a 'gamey' feel to
> them. You'll never see a zone like the commonlands where you have to
> dodge Hill Giants and Griffons as a newbie and I miss that.
>

In EQ, once you hit the maximum level, death became meaningless with
corpse summoners available. It is even more meaningless now with the
guild hall corpse summoner for a fee. When level 65 was the maximum
level, and I had hit 65, and just kept 10% xp going into regular level, I
ate almost 30 deaths over time until OOW upped the maximum level. I
didn't care, and it made me feel free to try ludicrous things. At times
I had to get a corpse summoner to help me get my corpse, but it was never
hard to do.

Even before the max level, with 96% rezzes available, death was pretty
meaningless in EQ1 so long as your corpse was accessible. I tried all
sorts of things long before I hit my maximum level just to see if I
could.

There were a few places where the CR was just totally ludicrous to do,
but most zones, there were reasonable options, such as a necro or sk to
summon the corpses.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 27 Dwarven Mystic, 23 Sage
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 28 Provisioner
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 6:50:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 9 Mar 2005 15:50:09 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>In EQ, once you hit the maximum level, death became meaningless with
>corpse summoners available. It is even more meaningless now with the
>guild hall corpse summoner for a fee. When level 65 was the maximum
>level, and I had hit 65, and just kept 10% xp going into regular level, I
>ate almost 30 deaths over time until OOW upped the maximum level. I
>didn't care, and it made me feel free to try ludicrous things. At times
>I had to get a corpse summoner to help me get my corpse, but it was never
>hard to do.
I disagree with that one. Eating an unrezzed death always felt like a
waste to me and I usually went out of my way to avoid it. ... which
meant that (for my playstyle), where I hunted was often dependent on
whether there was a rez available or not.

>There were a few places where the CR was just totally ludicrous to do,
>but most zones, there were reasonable options, such as a necro or sk to
>summon the corpses.

I don't see that as a 'reasonable' option. One of the (few) things I
liked about PoP was the graveyards because it let me push the envelope
and just see how far into a zone we could get before wiping and at
worst you'd know that your corpse would pop at the zone line in about
15 minutes.

Rgds, Frank
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 8:56:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:08:55 GMT, "Jeff Lindholm" <jeff@lindholm.org>
wrote:
>For people that started EQ1 they will always remember the good times, and
>tend to forget the bad. People may think that loosing there corpse in the
>pit in Blackburough somehow was fun, but I can almost guarantee at the time
>it happened they were pissed off.

While this is true, it's also true for just about every other game
I've ever had fun in. I get pissed off when I lose a CTF game in Halo
2 because they snuck the flag into our base under our nose. I get
pissed off in ESPN NFL 2K5 when, after gambling on a blitz the other
team torches me with a deep pass. I remember slamming down the Atari
5200 controller in frustration after falling inches short of reaching
the finish line in Pole Position.

The point is that I find challenging games more fun. These obstacles
thrown in our way are there to make overcoming them that much more
enjoyable. I believe this was a cornerstone of "The Vision" that
Verant used to get made fun of over - but it worked. People kept
coming back, and we had a helluva lot of fun.

I too sometimes worry that they're making EQ1 "too easy". But I've
been out of the game so I can't really say (yet). When I started
playing, level 50 was an impossibly long way away. Even level 10 felt
like an accomplishment back then (at least to me). In fact I resigned
myself to the fact that I would never see 50 (eventually I did, long
after most others, and it was sweet).

What would be the fun of going into Blackburrow in the first place if
there was no chance of getting into trouble? It was my favorite zone
of those early days because it was chaotic and dangerous. It was also
where I learned how to group and cooperate with others.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 9, 2005 9:44:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

"steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1110387316.594639.214750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I think that I read in the patch notes that the 75% damage has been
> reduced to 25% (but I wasn't paying too much attention so I could be
> wrong).

Hmm, I didn't see that. Now, I know it's usually worded as 'Your equipment
durability will be reduced to 25%' rather than saying it will be reduced by
75%. That might be where you saw the 25% (or it might not be, it might be
changed in a patch...at the moment, though, it's still 75% durability loss,
or at least it was last night *grin*).

>> And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning!
> Seemless
>> transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
>> continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).
>
> That is really good isn't it.

Totally. That was the thing I always hated the most about EQ1, the zoning.

>> I still love EQ1, don't get me wrong, but...I have cancelled my
>> subscription, since WoW is just, to me, a much better overall
> experience.
>
> I still like EQ1 and EQ2 as well. I'm not sure if EQ2 or WoW will win
> with me in the long run but a major factor is going to be that my
> machine runs WoW much much better than it runs EQ2. I have to run EQ2
> on the second worst graphics quality setting and I even have to turn
> the quality down in a lot of places when I am in a group.

EQ2 just never won me over. I played for a while, but eventually went back
to EQ1...then a friend showed me WoW. Once I got it, I still played EQ1 a
bit, but whenever I was on EQ1, I was bored and just kept thinking, 'I could
be playing WoW right now...' So, I cancelled my subscription, which runs out
the middle of this month.

>> Firian, 19th level Night Elf Hunter, Ner'zhul
>> Cheynne, 17th level Human Warrior, Ner'zhul
>> Widdershins, 22nd level Orc Hunter, Hellscream
>> Bovinis, 12th level Tauren Hunter, Bleeding Hollow
>> Cheynne, 14th level Tauren Shaman, Gorefiend
>> Putrescence, 10th level Undead Priest, Scarlet Crusade
>
> It seems that you like Hunters. :-)

Heh, yes, I do actually. :)  The Orc hunter has a raptor as a pet, the Tauren
hunter has a Named scorpion as a pet (I kept the name, Death Flayer,
although I had to lose the space when I renamed it to its original name),
and the Night Elf hunter went through hell, literally, to get a vampiric
duskbat as his pet (at level 12, he was running almost the full length of
the Eastern continent, through zones 10-20 levels higher than he was, and
facing certain death many times at the hand of the Horde (pvp server) to get
to the Undead area to tame that bat. Half a hundred times he died on that
historic run.). Although I like playing a warrior also (my current 'mains'
are the night elf hunter and the human warrior), surprisingly so for myself.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 10, 2005 1:11:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2 (More info?)

Firian wrote:

> "steve.kaye" <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1110387316.594639.214750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

>>>And then there's the best thing about WoW of all...no zoning!
>>
>>Seemless
>>
>>>transitioning from one zone to another (the only exception being
>>>continent-to-continent travel or going into an instanced zone).
>>
>>That is really good isn't it.
>
>
> Totally. That was the thing I always hated the most about EQ1, the zoning.

It never bothered me in EQ1, but in EQ2 it is something of a
turn-off...their zoning does kind of reach piss-taking levels at times,
especially in city travelling. I feel they shoot themselves in the foot
in this respect, though I can understand them wanting to keep lag down,
I've noticed WoW handles the total lack of zones with no impact on
latency that I've seen.

Either way, the lack of zoning in WoW is a breath of fresh air,
especially when placed alongside the exceptionally speedy login.

--
Michael Greenhalgh
---
www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
---
MMORPGs
EverQuest:
Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

EverQuest 2:
Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

City of Heroes:
Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
---
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
March 13, 2005 8:33:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Graeme Faelban wrote:

> Some of my fondest memories were of wipes and the subsequent CRs. One of
> my favorites was seeing the whole guild outfitted in mage summoned armor,
> wielding mage summoned weapons fighting our way back to our corpses. It
> was an absolute blast.

Red raiders rock!

I can remember outfitting the entire guild after a wipe in Fear.
Everyone in red... mmm, good times.
!