No time to explain, just read this
http://www.overclockers.com/articles425/
http://www.millennium-thermal.com/
http://www.overclockers.com/articles425/
http://www.millennium-thermal.com/
Swiftech killer
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those are my thoughts too, took them like a year to perfect that hsf and they stuck to the socket connectors with that weight!?
I wonder how difficult it would be to modify the heatsink to fit onto the motherboard instead of on the clips. For the cost differerence of the Swiftech MC 462 it might be worth it.
Seems to me you could solder two bits of copper or plates (or whatever) to each side of the copper heat sink, drill 4 holes through the clips, and voila. Now you can attach the heat sink to the board.
Any thought on this?
<font color=blue>You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind.</font color=blue>
Seems to me you could solder two bits of copper or plates (or whatever) to each side of the copper heat sink, drill 4 holes through the clips, and voila. Now you can attach the heat sink to the board.
Any thought on this?
<font color=blue>You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind.</font color=blue>
And I thought the Gladiator was heavy to mount on the socket clips. That thing is almost as heavy as the swifty. I would rather spend the extra 30-40$ for the swifty and mount it on the motherboard than try and attach that thing on to my socket. But hey, for those of you who can afford to toast a CPU or kill a socket, try it out and let us know how it works out =)
SerArthurDayne
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I can just see it now...
"Yay! I've got my new Glaciator on nice and tight! Now to pull my tower upright...."
*SKRACK* as the entire socket tears free. "Ooops"
"Yay! I've got my new Glaciator on nice and tight! Now to pull my tower upright...."
*SKRACK* as the entire socket tears free. "Ooops"
Hmmm... i got it now... all you have to do is strap a 1 pound counter weight to the other side of your motherboard and you'll be set... =) Or maybe they designed it with the future in mind, and when we're all living on the moon, this heatsink will be well within weight limits.... ok, now i'm making no sense... time for bed I guess
Glaciator Attachment in context, Stationary vs. Transport
AMD spec. for clip loads is 12 lbs min/24 Max with a typical load 16 - 18 lbs
So with 18 Lbs loaded clip (9 lbs per lug) + 2 lbs heat sink you have a 20 Lbs load on the socket (10 per lug) 4 lbs under the AMD Max Load. That's good for a computer you are not going to move. In pull tests with a spring scale and the board mounted in a vertical posistion it takes an additional 10-12 lbs pulling against a single lug to break the socket In other words (10lbs clip force + 10 lbs pull force) It takes 20 lbs per lug or 40 lbs per socket before failure.
The added load with the glaciator is 1 lb per lug. A crude analogy might be that it would take something like a 40 lb sink to break your socket.
However when you move your computer its a different story, If you drop it off a truck 3 or 4 ft you will hit the max load on these socket lugs pretty readily and they will break. Simple caution and common sense is required, drop a hard drive 4ft or some other sensitive component and you encounter the same issues.
In order to achieve new performance limits, design features will push a threshold - High speed fans (NOISE) volume, weight, Materials, Technolgy + Manufacturing are taken to extremes. These are all design trade offs. I personally think many manufacturers made a mistake by applying the 7,000 rpm fans, the resulting noise was unacceptable to many. A material(cu) or Volume trade off would have been more acceptable. My design trade off was weight(cu), being what I considered the lessor of the evils.
I have investigated a number features such as board mounting schemes, varible fan speed controlers etc. The primary issue becomes pricing on the final product, for every dollar added to the manufacturing price 2-3 dollars are added @ the retail level. By the time you get through the chain of tooling, assembly, shipping the added cost of these features can easily push you up to the $60-$80 price range. Rather than end up a high priced novlty item I tried to put together the best combination of features at an acceptable price level.
The Glaciator is an extreme product, a threshold design, it does not meet AMD requirements for weight, and might not be for everybody. But for those who need the extra thermal performance its an option.
Regards
Andrew Lemont
Millennium Thermal Solutions
AMD spec. for clip loads is 12 lbs min/24 Max with a typical load 16 - 18 lbs
So with 18 Lbs loaded clip (9 lbs per lug) + 2 lbs heat sink you have a 20 Lbs load on the socket (10 per lug) 4 lbs under the AMD Max Load. That's good for a computer you are not going to move. In pull tests with a spring scale and the board mounted in a vertical posistion it takes an additional 10-12 lbs pulling against a single lug to break the socket In other words (10lbs clip force + 10 lbs pull force) It takes 20 lbs per lug or 40 lbs per socket before failure.
The added load with the glaciator is 1 lb per lug. A crude analogy might be that it would take something like a 40 lb sink to break your socket.
However when you move your computer its a different story, If you drop it off a truck 3 or 4 ft you will hit the max load on these socket lugs pretty readily and they will break. Simple caution and common sense is required, drop a hard drive 4ft or some other sensitive component and you encounter the same issues.
In order to achieve new performance limits, design features will push a threshold - High speed fans (NOISE) volume, weight, Materials, Technolgy + Manufacturing are taken to extremes. These are all design trade offs. I personally think many manufacturers made a mistake by applying the 7,000 rpm fans, the resulting noise was unacceptable to many. A material(cu) or Volume trade off would have been more acceptable. My design trade off was weight(cu), being what I considered the lessor of the evils.
I have investigated a number features such as board mounting schemes, varible fan speed controlers etc. The primary issue becomes pricing on the final product, for every dollar added to the manufacturing price 2-3 dollars are added @ the retail level. By the time you get through the chain of tooling, assembly, shipping the added cost of these features can easily push you up to the $60-$80 price range. Rather than end up a high priced novlty item I tried to put together the best combination of features at an acceptable price level.
The Glaciator is an extreme product, a threshold design, it does not meet AMD requirements for weight, and might not be for everybody. But for those who need the extra thermal performance its an option.
Regards
Andrew Lemont
Millennium Thermal Solutions
Thanks for clarifying things a bit. I was actually impressed by the glaciator's review at overclockers.com and considered buying one till I saw that weight. I'd still like to hear some first hand expierences with installing and using it, since reviews aren't always that accurate, but if I hear enough good things about it, I may end up getting one since it isn't gonna kill my socket after all.
Wow,
Really great to hear from a product representative in here!
Andrew - I really appreciate your response!
I agree that the tradeoffs are always there - and I think it is great that you guys are playing a different angle from the high speed fan/noise one. My concern is that the heatsink is heavy. More than just pressure/weight specification, what is the moment of rotation on the heatsink when the board is vertical? How much shear stress is generated on the lugs and sockets, and also how much tiliting force is generated against the edge of the chip? Are shims recommended/needed for a hs like this?
Just questions like this that people ask themselves before jumping in. I really hope that popular use proves these beasts to be 100% reliable and cool so that we get some excellent competition back in - I'll wait for the users reviews before I consider buying one. I hate the noise of my Swiftech, but I loce it's cooling and stability. As a marketing gimmick, the pics of them dropping the case off a building and not damaging the core or mobo are impressive, if worthless too!
How about building an aftermarket/optional mobo mounting kit for those worried about wieght etc?
-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
Really great to hear from a product representative in here!
Andrew - I really appreciate your response!
I agree that the tradeoffs are always there - and I think it is great that you guys are playing a different angle from the high speed fan/noise one. My concern is that the heatsink is heavy. More than just pressure/weight specification, what is the moment of rotation on the heatsink when the board is vertical? How much shear stress is generated on the lugs and sockets, and also how much tiliting force is generated against the edge of the chip? Are shims recommended/needed for a hs like this?
Just questions like this that people ask themselves before jumping in. I really hope that popular use proves these beasts to be 100% reliable and cool so that we get some excellent competition back in - I'll wait for the users reviews before I consider buying one. I hate the noise of my Swiftech, but I loce it's cooling and stability. As a marketing gimmick, the pics of them dropping the case off a building and not damaging the core or mobo are impressive, if worthless too!
How about building an aftermarket/optional mobo mounting kit for those worried about wieght etc?
-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
Now that's an idea I could agree with. An optional mount kit would be great. I too am sick of the noise my Vantec with 2 delta's is making. It sounds like a jet taking off in here. I've searched in vain of a cooling solution with low noise and good cooling, and it would be great to finally find something that could bridge that gap. My major question is why, if the socket can hadle almost 800 grams of weight, does AMD have such a low weight limit? Does that weight limit only apply to heatsinks that could ship with pre-built systems, or are they just being extremely cautious. I would also like to know about peteb's question regarding shims. Would it be in a users best interest to use a shim? And one last question that I have yet to understand. How come heatsink makers aren't using all of the little latches on the socket for clipping? As I recall, there are 3 of them on each side. Wouldn't using a clip that attached to more than just one on each side distribute the weight and pressure more evenly, thus eliminating some of the weight related problems? This seems logical to me, but maybe I'm missing something.
SerArthurDayne
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I believe those weight limits are set in place largely due to transport specifications. Feel free to smack down my assumption, however.
A few months ago an aquaintance of mine purchased a customized AMD system (that happened to have a rather large heatsink) that was sent via UPS. They must have been rather harsh with the handling, considering the heatsink had come free and turned into a bouncing metal ball of component death.
A few months ago an aquaintance of mine purchased a customized AMD system (that happened to have a rather large heatsink) that was sent via UPS. They must have been rather harsh with the handling, considering the heatsink had come free and turned into a bouncing metal ball of component death.
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