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If I hate STEAM should I stay away from PC gaming?

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May 23, 2012 5:36:47 AM

Currently I have a PS3 and I'm on the fence about whether or not I want to upgrade my PC or just get the 360 back. A lot of the steam practices I just can't ignore namely
1.) If I have a single player game why do I still need to be online to install it or play it?
2.) Forced updates, I can do this myself.
3.) Not being able to resell games when I'm done with them. I understand why they feel the need for this, I just don't agree with it.
4.) Sharing a disk(which is none existent) to play offline MP, like 3 I understand why they feel the need to do so, I just don't agree with it.

PC does have a lot of games I like and is getting a lot of releases that I plan on getting in the future such as borderlands 2, AC3, and Bioshock infinite but for a lot of those games steam is/will be required to play them. Games like the witcher 2 which doesn't require STEAM are games I'm interested in playing on the PC but it's also for the 360 so not much incentive right there. While the 360 did get old for me, I realized that having people to play with online made it fun. Given how PC gaming is done now, I don't see STEAM leaving anytime. Being an RPG fan PC seems to be more way but I just don't like having to go through something like STEAM to play them. So like the topic says should I just stay away from PC gaming?

More about : hate steam stay gaming

May 23, 2012 8:15:51 AM

1:- fair point, but you still have the same problem with xbox live games.

2:-?????? automatic updates are a good thing.

3:- agreed, but most games are cheap. Same applies to xbox/psn games.

4:- Installing on multiple computers is illegal.

Also, all games can be bought retail or from alternative online providers.
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May 23, 2012 8:18:34 AM

1. You can play single player games offline by starting Steam in offline mode. You will need to be online for the first time installation/ setup as the game downloads the files from the Steam servers. However, once installed, you do not require an online connection for playing single player games.

2. Updates: You can manually select Steam NOT to apply updates automatically. This can be done from the settings menu in Steam.

3.&4. Its all about DRM. Since you simply do not 'agree' with it, there is no solution to it. You can however, gift your games to another person on Steam, who in turn can gift you a title you want.

Personally, PC gaming has far more potential than console gaming. I have a PS3 and a gaming rig and I personally prefer the PC. I limit the PS3 to non-fps/ racing titles like NFS: the run, WWE12, Ace Combat, God of War, etc. I prefer fps titles on the PC because of the precision offered by the mouse-keyboard combo....plus, I get better graphics on the PC!
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May 23, 2012 8:19:43 AM

+1 ^

stay away from hot water

Steam is regularly cheaper than physical, you never have the risk of disk being damaged, you can still mod, your arguments are weak and centre around multi-use of a single license.
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May 23, 2012 8:21:21 AM

namelessonez said:
3.&4. Its all about DRM. Since you simply do not 'agree' with it, there is no solution to it. You can however, gift your games to another person on Steam, who in turn can gift you a title you want.


Can gift an already brought game? I knew you could do it when purchasing a game.
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May 23, 2012 8:41:14 AM

13thmonkey said:
Can gift an already brought game? I knew you could do it when purchasing a game.

I do believe you can sell games already in your Steam library, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Coming back to the OP's question re: reselling physical copies- physical versions need to be activated by using the activation code which comes with them. So once you've used the code to activated the game, how does one plan on 'reselling' the game? Because the person buying it won't be able to use the code again, right?

Maybe I'm missing out on something here(?).
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May 23, 2012 8:58:31 AM

namelessonez said:
I do believe you can sell games already in your Steam library, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Coming back to the OP's question re: reselling physical copies- physical versions need to be activated by using the activation code which comes with them. So once you've used the code to activated the game, how does one plan on 'reselling' the game? Because the person buying it won't be able to use the code again, right?

Maybe I'm missing out on something here(?).


Its the only interesting point in the OP's post, i.e. the killing of the secondhand market, which is going to happen anyway even with non-steam physical. If there were two versions available, single user (-20% cost) and sellable (std cost).

Games are viewed as brought and not a licensed product, a brought product you own and can do what you want with, a licensed product has limitations such as being able to resell. The industry is trying to move us from one model to the other. Naturally we don't want to move. Steam (for instance) is able to offer cheaper games probably for this very reason, this is a strong incentive to move in my opinion. Unfortunately it will happen, as a consumer the only choice we have is to buy or not buy. And if the OP thinks its not going to happen on the Xbox/PS3 i think you'll find it already is.
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May 23, 2012 12:08:24 PM

13thmonkey said:
Can gift an already brought game? I knew you could do it when purchasing a game.


I confirm that you can buy a game and give it as a gift (which means it's not your copy, you're giving that license to whomever you're giving it to...


...but I don't think you can give "YOUR" games as gifts. If so, please provide more details as I'd love to know how...


To OP: I personally love STEAM but you make very good points. I see it as a trade-off to keep PC gaming as legit as possible while having the benefits of having crazy good deals. There are games (such as the latest COD games) that require a STEAM account though most games can be purchased on their own. That said, many publishers are going the digital way and will end up using either STEAM or EA using their own Origin (i.e. BF3). Not to burst your bubble but even the upcoming consoles will be operating the same way (Microsoft having their own STEAM version), PSN, though I'm not sure about Nintendo's distribution platform (they seem to favor the old way).

That said, it's your call. You make good points (you also forgot that all games purchased on STEAM you don't own...you rent permanently as long as the service is available. The day STEAM goes down is the day we all lose you games (and I have many).

Cheers.

Alex
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May 23, 2012 2:40:23 PM

Thanks for all the criticism guys both good and bad. I thought MS and Sony were looking into the steam model but I thought it was squashed, maybe I got something mixed up. You guys do make a lot of good points that certainly put steam in a better light. There are still things such as basically renting the games you buy but still this discussion has caused me to look into this a bit more. Thanks all.
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May 23, 2012 3:28:00 PM

EA's origin has a clause in it that they can give 30(?)days notice and then shut the service down, all gone. I think that they have to put this in so that they don't have to put funds aside for indefinite maintenance of the service should then company decide it is not profitable to continue, or if the company collapses.

some studios are looking to purposely kill the secondhand market without the convenience of digital copy.
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May 23, 2012 3:35:22 PM

13thmonkey said:
EA's origin has a clause in it that they can give 30(?)days notice and then shut the service down, all gone. I think that they have to put this in so that they don't have to put funds aside for indefinite maintenance of the service should then company decide it is not profitable to continue, or if the company collapses.

some studios are looking to purposely kill the secondhand market without the convenience of digital copy.


Isn't EA doing badly right now?
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May 23, 2012 3:39:24 PM

possibly...

but some of origins downloads are 'download in place' i.e. there are no registry entries, just the file structure than you can move around and backup as desired. Not sure if Steams are or not?
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May 23, 2012 6:05:44 PM

Fenrir190 said:
Isn't EA doing badly right now?


Publicity wise? Yeah.

Financially? They seem to be doing fine. Their games still sell like hotcakes and they just put out arguably the biggest title of 2011 in Battlefield 3.
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May 23, 2012 7:21:45 PM

casualcolors said:
Publicity wise? Yeah.

Financially? They seem to be doing fine. Their games still sell like hotcakes and they just put out arguably the biggest title of 2011 in Battlefield 3.



Hi Casual :) 

Funnily enough regarding this thread the only reason I wont buy BF3 is because its not on Steam lol...

I have one of the new HTC ONE X phones on Android and tried a couple of EA games on it...lol...absolutely FULL of adverts that totally ruin the game,,,Scrabble as an example....you get a 30 second advert between EACH move...... they are not doing themselves any favours with rubbish like that...

All the best Brett :) 
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May 23, 2012 7:26:48 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi Casual :) 

Funnily enough regarding this thread the only reason I wont buy BF3 is because its not on Steam lol...

I have one of the new HTC ONE X phones on Android and tried a couple of EA games on it...lol...absolutely FULL of adverts that totally ruin the game,,,Scrabble as an example....you get a 30 second advert between EACH move...... they are not doing themselves any favours with rubbish like that...

All the best Brett :) 


Obviously all you can do is vote as a consumer with your own dollar bill. Personally BF3 not being on Steam wasn't an issue for me, but then again, that's a personal choice.

Unfortunately however, all of the informed and restrained good consumer practices in the world won't likely have any impact on the direction games are going in general (with regard to your ios apps). By the same logic, I didn't buy Diablo 3. I feel good about the choice, but ultimately I'm in a vassssssssst minority and Blizzard's as aware of that fact as I am. Same for Activision, EA or anyone else on their level financially. Not sure we'll see a toppling reminiscent of Acclaim or anything in the near future.
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May 23, 2012 7:43:35 PM

If you don't like STEAM, simply buy your games from digital stores like Gamersgate.com, GOG.com and getgamesgo.com. Neither of these stores requires a online connection for singelplayer - unless the game has some sort of DRM built into them like steam securom origin etc. Or just buy your games on discs. Just make sure the games does not require some sort of DRM beforehand.

To me STEAM is a great service, despite the online requirements (lets face it offline-mode doesn't work). It is very easy to buy games, wich very often is on sale, it is super easy to download, un-install and re-download your games, and the cloud makes it very easy to manage savegames. Besides that you got the steam workshop (mods) used by portal 2 and Skyrim (and hopefully more games in the future.

There are plenty of games not even available on steam, most MMO's and free-to-play games are not on STEAM.
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May 24, 2012 3:47:20 PM

I personally like not have to deal with CDs. I lose them they get scratched... load times are longer, etc.

Example. Skyrim.

I had the game on the PS3. I had a 10-30 second load time depending on where I was going. I got rid of the PS3 version and got the PC version (when I built my PC in Jan) and my load times are 2-4 seconds depending on the environment.

Some of that has to do with my PC just being faster than my PS3, but most of it is disk read times.
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May 24, 2012 4:16:04 PM

jjack339 said:
I personally like not have to deal with CDs. I lose them they get scratched... load times are longer, etc.

Example. Skyrim.

I had the game on the PS3. I had a 10-30 second load time depending on where I was going. I got rid of the PS3 version and got the PC version (when I built my PC in Jan) and my load times are 2-4 seconds depending on the environment.

Some of that has to do with my PC just being faster than my PS3, but most of it is disk read times.


Most of it is how significantly more powerful a gaming PC is than a PS3. Can't really compare load times across platform in this way to judge whether or not a disc on PC is responsible for load times, particularly when discs these days are often just installs, and the textures are pulled from your HDD and cached in system memory same as with any digitally downloaded game.
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May 25, 2012 3:45:10 AM

if you get a xbox 360 its going to cost to much for online my suggestion is wait till the playstation 4 or xbox 720 comes out or you can just get games that dont requre steam like ubisoft games dont requre steam.
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May 25, 2012 3:47:21 AM

you could always torrent them or crack them but you would have to buy the game before doing that beacuse its against the law.
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May 28, 2012 6:47:35 AM

dxe22 said:
you could always torrent them or crack them but you would have to buy the game before doing that beacuse its against the law.

You seem to forget the ability of not being able to play online and even if you can it will be a crap experience
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May 28, 2012 4:34:10 PM

dxe22 said:
you could always torrent them or crack them but you would have to buy the game before doing that beacuse its against the law.

If u buy a game and try to crack it, it is against the rules that u are agreeing to when u installing the game. If u disagree, it wont install.

Also illegal.
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May 28, 2012 7:40:06 PM

rambostyrer said:
If you don't like STEAM, simply buy your games from digital stores like Gamersgate.com, GOG.com and getgamesgo.com. Neither of these stores requires a online connection for singelplayer - unless the game has some sort of DRM built into them like steam securom origin etc. Or just buy your games on discs. Just make sure the games does not require some sort of DRM beforehand.

To me STEAM is a great service, despite the online requirements (lets face it offline-mode doesn't work). It is very easy to buy games, wich very often is on sale, it is super easy to download, un-install and re-download your games, and the cloud makes it very easy to manage savegames. Besides that you got the steam workshop (mods) used by portal 2 and Skyrim (and hopefully more games in the future.

There are plenty of games not even available on steam, most MMO's and free-to-play games are not on STEAM.


How does it not work? I've logged in many times when Steam was offline. It gave me a pop up, told me that my data would not save to their servers and I could continue if I choose. I chose and I played.
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May 29, 2012 2:08:24 AM

bystander said:
How does it not work? I've logged in many times when Steam was offline. It gave me a pop up, told me that my data would not save to their servers and I could continue if I choose. I chose and I played.


Just because it worked for you, doesn't mean that it works universally. I also think it's very hit and miss.
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May 29, 2012 4:19:47 AM

It may be game related, though I've never not been able to play and most my games are from Steam.
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May 29, 2012 4:21:06 AM

I dislike steam too, but it is only a platform. You can always buy the physical copy or just download it (lets admit it, some games are just made for soloing)
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May 29, 2012 10:27:41 AM

The big defining features of Steam for me are;
*Its cheap (if you wait for sales)
*Easy backups
*The overlay is very useful

Steam really does come into its own if your doing a OS reinstall or wanting to copy the game files form one PC to another (free games like TF2, etc).
You can just copy the steam folder then, on the new installation, install steam. Copy the files, verify installations and bam all the games ready to go with very little downloading or searching for disk/keys.
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May 30, 2012 4:27:49 AM

In my opinion PC gaming is more of a hassle almost always needing to upgrade to a better computer and it's expensive, which is why I personally prefer the XBox, but the games are soo much funner and better with mods, higher graphics and in some games gameplay so if steam is your only issue keep at it get over one small issue the payoff is so much better with a computer.
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June 5, 2012 8:19:22 AM

i just have to say everybody has internet. online drm is fine with me as long as its done good. i opted out of diablo 3 because it wasnt right, but steam, never any problems.
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June 6, 2012 2:42:13 AM

tjosborne said:
i just have to say everybody has internet. online drm is fine with me as long as its done good. i opted out of diablo 3 because it wasnt right, but steam, never any problems.


What you mean to say is that you and everybody that you know in the world of 6+billion people have the internet.

Not everyone has the internet.

Not even all gamers have reliable internet.
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August 5, 2012 6:11:44 PM

I strongly dislike STEAM. Its buggy, theres too much DRM. So then why do i have over 50 dollars worth of games on my account (keyword worth, i did not pay that much). Well i got fallout new vegas and all the dlcs for 10 dollars. i dont consider myself a pc gamer but you cant deny that the deals are pretty awesome. You should buy an xbox and keep and eye out for a good deal you will never get anywhere else then buy it, play it for what its worth and go back to a ps3
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August 5, 2012 6:38:00 PM

koolguru said:
I strongly dislike STEAM. Its buggy, theres too much DRM. So then why do i have over 50 dollars worth of games on my account (keyword worth, i did not pay that much). Well i got fallout new vegas and all the dlcs for 10 dollars. i dont consider myself a pc gamer but you cant deny that the deals are pretty awesome. You should buy an xbox and keep and eye out for a good deal you will never get anywhere else then buy it, play it for what its worth and go back to a ps3


Something to always bear in mind, Valve are not the only ones doing deals. The same deals that appear on Steam, often appear in other places (Amazon Digital, Gamersgate, Greenmangaming, even Origin) and sometimes for slightly less than Valve is willing to list on Steam. An example of this would be Titan Quest Gold which was just on sale on Steam for 4.99. Just 2 days before this sale, Titan Quest Gold went on sale for 3.99 at Gamersgate. So in this instance, Steam is representing a $1.00 markup above what the publisher had found to be an agreeable price.
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August 21, 2012 3:37:50 AM

At first I would have said no. I anticipated a robust competition where STEAM games would be competing against non-STEAM games, and that there would be an opportunity either to get non-STEAM versions of games or buy games designed without the STEAM DRM altogether. In fact what's happened is practically all games from major publishers eitehr use STEAM or an in-house form of DRM that is similar to STEAM.

You'll find there is a very strong fanbase for STEAM, and people who are part of is will be very vocal about condemning people who don't like STEAM as "stupid", "ignorant", "hackers", etc. They will praise STEAM - and pan alternate forms of DRM that are virtually identical to STEAM. Not sure what makes these people so fanatical, but that's my experience. I originally disliked the idea of STEAM, but after dealing with these people through on-line forums I have come to absolutely despise STEAM and its fan base.

There's another problem that's cropped up with STEAM. Since all new game purchases have to go through them, and be logged onto your account, there is a robust phishing network that tries to steal STEAM accounts from people. If they get you, all your new games will become unplayable. Something else to consider.

So the short answer is, if you don't like STEAM or DRM schemes like it that you should look for another hobby, or get used to playing only old games made before this system came into popularity. Consoles aren't a permanent answer either, as it looks like the console industry is trying to go this route too. Think of it like cable TV - there are plenty of people who hated it when it first came out, but there's so much new profit from customers who were willing to buy in that the people in the industry were willing to kick those who wouldn't to the curb. So either get used to the idea of not owning your game, playing when STEAM feels like giving you permission to, not being able to sell or lend your game to others and having your whole library of titles open to theft at any time - or be prepared to stop buying and playing games entirely. And expect no sympathy whatsoever from the remaining gaming fan base.
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August 21, 2012 4:03:04 AM

AndrewHitchcock96 said:
In my opinion PC gaming is more of a hassle almost always needing to upgrade to a better computer and it's expensive, which is why I personally prefer the XBox, but the games are soo much funner and better with mods, higher graphics and in some games gameplay so if steam is your only issue keep at it get over one small issue the payoff is so much better with a computer.

Can't stand that "always need to upgrade" comment about PC gaming...the only time that is accurate in the slightest is if you want to max every single game that comes out. A system made 4 years ago (probably more) is more than capable of playing a modern game at higher settings than consoles. And the very few PC exclusives that are hardware demanding can be played as well.
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August 21, 2012 3:32:51 PM

You should be thankful for steam. Not only has it brought Indie developers a chance to sell their stuff, and give us a chance to play some of their games, which there are some really good indie games, but they have helped save a lot of developers who were about to completely abandon the PC platform. I also find it a lot more convenient to having to find my disk when ever I want to play a game.

P.S. - Given the fact that 80% of PC games are pirated copies, when someone is so against DRM's, it kind of fuels the notion that you pirate, even if you personally don't, the odds are good for most people.
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August 21, 2012 3:43:49 PM

I agree with bystander, people by not supporting the game developers (attention im saying developers not distributors like EA and so on) are one of the reason why they dont care about developing anything decent these days and instead just make c5%(# rushed out games to sell fast rather than bring quality and steam is an excelent platform in everyway possible for gamers, developers and press.
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August 21, 2012 8:45:11 PM

DrCruel said:

You'll find there is a very strong fanbase for STEAM, and people who are part of is will be very vocal about condemning people who don't like STEAM as "stupid", "ignorant", "hackers", etc. They will praise STEAM - and pan alternate forms of DRM that are virtually identical to STEAM. Not sure what makes these people so fanatical, but that's my experience.


You can chalk it up largely to simple ignorance on their part.

I don't agree with every single little part of your post (although I do agree with a lot of it) but very poignant stuff either way.
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August 23, 2012 9:20:12 AM

bumnut53 said:
1:- fair point, but you still have the same problem with xbox live games.

2:-?????? automatic updates are a good thing.

3:- agreed, but most games are cheap. Same applies to xbox/psn games.

4:- Installing on multiple computers is illegal.

Also, all games can be bought retail or from alternative online providers.


1) correct xbox live is also a piece of poo
2) incorrect certain versions appeal to different people eg. minecraft & diablo 2.
3) Incorrect cheap is a relative term, having to sell off your rights to a growing monopoly may seem cheap in the short term, but gamers are paying for it big time in their ability to take their business elsewhere. Would you like to be forced to sell competitors merchandise in your own fledgling business?
4) Incorrect as has been proven in court, you can install and use your licence of use anywhere you please taking your hired ability with you; however you may not make multiple copies (eg. for friends). Current laws state that software creates a new form of functioning hardware, but that does not extend to more than the hard drive and quite frankly would be hard challenged under fair use where terms have not been set out and agreed to in limiting the number of installations a person may do on his own equipment. It is a right long attempted to be taken away by the industry.
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Anonymous
November 4, 2012 2:10:18 PM

These forced updates are the very reason why I sold my Xbox after the forced freakin' new awesome (according to Microsoft) really horrible (according to me) dashboard.
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February 11, 2013 5:59:34 PM

Aside from the Steam client, updates are optional, you can turn off forced updates in the properties of each game under the Updates tab.

edit: oops, didn't mean to necro, I just felt the misinformation needed correcting.
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February 12, 2013 10:18:38 AM

Personally,
My main issue nowdays in PC gaming is not actually STeam, but other companies like Ubisoft that force you install their "UPLay" or MIcrosoft Live for games.
Dont even get me started on Origin.
I think i only bought one game with that sort of software, and i doubt id buy any other again. Id rather buy the original game, then find a pirate copy and play the pirate copy than install that intrusive DRM.

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February 13, 2013 8:45:54 PM

Fenrir190 said:
Currently I have a PS3 and I'm on the fence about whether or not I want to upgrade my PC or just get the 360 back. A lot of the steam practices I just can't ignore namely
1.) If I have a single player game why do I still need to be online to install it or play it?
2.) Forced updates, I can do this myself.
3.) Not being able to resell games when I'm done with them. I understand why they feel the need for this, I just don't agree with it.
4.) Sharing a disk(which is none existent) to play offline MP, like 3 I understand why they feel the need to do so, I just don't agree with it.

PC does have a lot of games I like and is getting a lot of releases that I plan on getting in the future such as borderlands 2, AC3, and Bioshock infinite but for a lot of those games steam is/will be required to play them. Games like the witcher 2 which doesn't require STEAM are games I'm interested in playing on the PC but it's also for the 360 so not much incentive right there. While the 360 did get old for me, I realized that having people to play with online made it fun. Given how PC gaming is done now, I don't see STEAM leaving anytime. Being an RPG fan PC seems to be more way but I just don't like having to go through something like STEAM to play them. So like the topic says should I just stay away from PC gaming?





I agree, Steam sucks, but it's not true what many people say that Steam is the only digital distribution platform for PC games. ,There is also GFWL, Uplay and Origin, they aren't much better but some of them are better in some things like on Origin you don't have to be signed in to play offline. And I would still suggest you upgrade your PC as the advantages of PC gaming are worth having to use Steam for some games.
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February 13, 2013 8:47:37 PM

13thmonkey said:
+1 ^

stay away from hot water

Steam is regularly cheaper than physical, you never have the risk of disk being damaged, you can still mod, your arguments are weak and centre around multi-use of a single license.





You're just a fanboy!
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February 13, 2013 8:54:01 PM

cats_Paw said:
Personally,
My main issue nowdays in PC gaming is not actually STeam, but other companies like Ubisoft that force you install their "UPLay" or MIcrosoft Live for games.
Dont even get me started on Origin.
I think i only bought one game with that sort of software, and i doubt id buy any other again. Id rather buy the original game, then find a pirate copy and play the pirate copy than install that intrusive DRM.





You know nothing about PC game digital distribution platforms.
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February 21, 2013 1:03:03 AM

cats_Paw said:
Personally,
My main issue nowdays in PC gaming is not actually STeam, but other companies like Ubisoft that force you install their "UPLay" or MIcrosoft Live for games.
Dont even get me started on Origin.
I think i only bought one game with that sort of software, and i doubt id buy any other again. Id rather buy the original game, then find a pirate copy and play the pirate copy than install that intrusive DRM.


Yeah, I agree completely. I love Steam in general, but I hate how some games use 3rd party software too. For example, I bought Splinter Cell: Conviction for like $2.50 during the Christmas sale. I have thoroughly enjoyed that game, but it is so annoying to launch. Basically, you press "Play" on Steam and it is says the usual "preparing to launch...", but then it opens this Ubisoft Game Launcher and you have to wait for that program to load and then click play again. -_-

You also have to make an account with Ubisoft and the login server is pretty glitchy. There's been a few incidents where I couldn't play since the login authentication failed.

Not a huge deal, but just annoying and completely unnecessary.
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February 21, 2013 4:42:10 AM

i see steam more as a library for my games, and since i never buy physical copies anymore it works quite well for me. as for the multi launch windows, i think either way if you open the game from an EXE or you go through steam either way i dont find it annoying because you have to get to the original EXE either way, be it browsing your folders or going through your list on steam, steam just organizes them.
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February 21, 2013 6:07:23 AM

I dislike steam too, but it is only a platform.
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February 21, 2013 12:33:52 PM

First. If you really feel these points are non-negotiable, buy a PS4 when it comes out. (or whatever microsoft announces, pick your flavour)

- Steam has offline mode. No need for online except for activation.
- Updates are necessary if you want the smoothest game experience, but can be disabled.
- Reselling isn't possible, yes. But the frequency of sales means you can just wait and get a game at the same price as used. Steam's monopoly is over - other sites are pricematching and/or beating their deals. PC is the only platform that allows retailers to compete for your money on digital releases.

- even consoles cant run two instances off of one disc. (exception: DS/3DS download play mode)


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February 22, 2013 1:02:03 AM

casualcolors said:
What you mean to say is that you and everybody that you know in the world of 6+billion people have the internet.

Not everyone has the internet.

Not even all gamers have reliable internet.

well if u gonna spend $700 + on a gaming pc get internet. its not hard. its not expensive. cannot afford it, get a 1 hr a week job, that will take care of expense. i mean really, come on
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March 18, 2013 9:07:42 AM

Fenrir190 said:
Thanks for all the criticism guys both good and bad. I thought MS and Sony were looking into the steam model but I thought it was squashed, maybe I got something mixed up. You guys do make a lot of good points that certainly put steam in a better light. There are still things such as basically renting the games you buy but still this discussion has caused me to look into this a bit more. Thanks all.









Microsoft already has GFWL
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