Two-boxing with 2 PC's and a KVM switch

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Hey guys, anybody do this? Two-box using a KVM switch to switch between the
PCs/instances of EQ?

I just got a new PC I have not setup yet and I am giving my old one two my
daughter and putting hers on the floor next to mine, hooking it into the
network via ethernet and using it for whatever (have not really decided yet)
via a KVM switch. This extra PC is a HP Pavilion with a Celeron 2.2, 512 MB
RAM and onboard Intel video. I know it runs EQ ok although certainly nothing
like my new PC will.

If I try 2 boxing with this setup using a KVM switch, I'll run EQ without
Luclin models at all on the slower PC to ensure decent performance I think,
although I suppose I could try it both ways and see how it does.

I haven't used a KVM switch before but I think it is pretty much
instantaneous switching so I am thinking that flipping back and forth to
control characters might be doable.

My first foray into doing this would be to use my 65 cleric to buff and heal
a new character of mine while they solo and xp. I have an 11 Druid that I
might try this out with as well as a baby Ogre warrior and some others.

So, I was just wondering if anybody else here does this and how well I might
expect it to work. I've got to do all the fooling around to setup the new
PC, move mine to my daughter's room, her's to floor next to my new one and
do all the settings, data transfer and reinstalls associated with that so
there goes this whole afternoon I'm sure. :-)
30 answers Last reply
More about boxing switch
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Cripes, guy! Your secondary is faster than my primary (1.2 GHz P3
    Tualatin, 512MB RAM, NVidea 5600)! I run full luclin models + the new
    water/lighting effects just fine at 1600x1200 and the NVidiea red-blue
    3D display extention, so you shouldn't have any problems running both
    systems with full Luclin models, new water & lighting, AND shadows.

    Anyhow, the dual-screen trick is an old one, despite the claims of
    stardock.com, well known in the VNC world. Google x2vnc and win2vnc to
    learn more about this.

    I have a similar setup for myself; I have the afore-mentione Pentium
    III system running along side a 300MHz UltraSPARC IIi running Solaris
    9. Both are configured to control the screen of the other from
    either's keyboard/mouse, which is useful for looking things up while
    in-game. The problem is that EverQuest grabs a firm hold on the mouse,
    and won't let go unless explicitely told to do so (ctrl-shift-R or
    something); this means that if the WindowsXP system running EverQuest
    is in control, I cannot move the mouse over to the Solaris system to
    look things up on the web. I have to use the SUN keyboard/mouse if I
    want to do this. If you've never used a SUN keyboard and mouse, I
    highly recommend going to your local computer surplus store and
    inquiring. However, they are not very good for playing EverQuest, plus
    the UltraSPARC is not quite powerful enough to deal with the
    resolutions I run EverQuest at (1600x1200), resulting in choppy mouse
    movement. So, the setup is rarely used while playing.

    Also, if you've never played EverQuest in glorious 3D with red-blue
    anaglyph glasses, and you're running on an NVidia card, what's wrong
    with you?! ;)
    --
    Xiphos - No, seriously. It literally adds depth to the game! Really
    accentuates the polygons on old models, though.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    I use all USB, never had any problems with using a USB KVM switch
    between several active systems. Aside from the afore-mentioned second
    or two of delay time when switching, it can be a rather viable way of
    sharing one KVM between multiple systems.

    I have used a cheap (<$40) USB KVM between Windows(Me|XP), Linux,
    FreeBSD, and a DreamCast without incident for years. Last year, I gave
    the WindowsXP system it's own KVM; the Linux, FreeBSD, and DreamCast
    all still share the same USB Keyboard and mouse, and VGA monitor
    through aforementioned switch.

    Having said that, I agree that such is not a good setup for
    dual-playing. The delay between switching active systems is too high.
    --
    Xiphos - $ man: people still use PS/2? man: too many arguments
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    In article <3bGdnYaDZP4eyNnfRVn-hA@comcast.com>,
    Michael Lyons <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >I haven't used a KVM switch before but I think it is pretty much
    >instantaneous switching so I am thinking that flipping back and forth to
    >control characters might be doable.

    Won't work. There's a very noticable delay especially in how
    long video takes to resynch after the switch. I play on a KVM, one
    windows one linux box, and if I accidentally switch to the linux box
    I usually come back to a bad situation. Also, KVM's sometimes lose
    mouse and/or keyboard input especially with frequent or rapid
    switching.
    >
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
    news:d21o8c$89q$1@reader1.panix.com...
    > In article <3bGdnYaDZP4eyNnfRVn-hA@comcast.com>,
    > Michael Lyons <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>I haven't used a KVM switch before but I think it is pretty much
    >>instantaneous switching so I am thinking that flipping back and forth to
    >>control characters might be doable.
    >
    > Won't work. There's a very noticable delay especially in how
    > long video takes to resynch after the switch. I play on a KVM, one
    > windows one linux box, and if I accidentally switch to the linux box
    > I usually come back to a bad situation. Also, KVM's sometimes lose
    > mouse and/or keyboard input especially with frequent or rapid
    > switching.

    Bummer, now I am sad. Funny you mentioned Linux on the second box. I was
    thinking of doing that do as something to do with that PC. I ran Linux
    exclusively on my main PC for a year and played what games I could using
    WineX, which I guess is now called Cedega. I was a subscriber and could play
    things like CS, various shooters, etc. back then. Around the time they
    started supporting EQ, I went back to Windows for a variety of reasons, not
    the least of which was that I personally felt that the quality of the KDE
    Linux desktop and the apps available for it was just not quite ready for
    primetime and every day use in the home setting. That's my take after
    dealing with a few crashes too many of all kinds of apps constantly evolving
    and to varying degrees of beta quality in my estimation. But I think I'd
    like it fine for something to play with in a separate sandbox and this PC
    will let me do that. These days, I think I'd go Mandrake again or maybe
    SuSE.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:19:40 +0000 (UTC), wrat@panix.com (the wharf
    rat) wrote:

    > Won't work. There's a very noticable delay especially in how
    >long video takes to resynch after the switch. I play on a KVM, one
    >windows one linux box, and if I accidentally switch to the linux box
    >I usually come back to a bad situation. Also, KVM's sometimes lose
    >mouse and/or keyboard input especially with frequent or rapid
    >switching.

    Some cheap KVM won't take kindly to switching between 2 active
    computers, often they are designed to share keyboard/mouse/monitor
    between 2 computers when only one is active. If you try it anyway,
    you risk blowing out the PS/2 controller in your computer and I don't
    know of USB version that works.
    --
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    In <3bGdnYaDZP4eyNnfRVn-hA@comcast.com> "Michael Lyons" <Linmukai@yahoo.com> writes:

    > I haven't used a KVM switch before but I think it is pretty much
    > instantaneous switching so I am thinking that flipping back and forth to
    > control characters might be doable.

    If you want a software-only solution, take a look at this:

    http://www.stardock.com/products/multiplicity/

    I haven't used it (yet), but it sounds sweet. Just move your mouse off
    the edge of one monitor and it appears on the other monitor, and your
    keyboard is also now controlling that PC.

    --
    John Gordon "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
    gordon@panix.com
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "John Gordon" <gordon@panix.com> wrote in message
    news:d21pd5$ea0$1@reader1.panix.com...
    > In <3bGdnYaDZP4eyNnfRVn-hA@comcast.com> "Michael Lyons"
    > <Linmukai@yahoo.com> writes:
    >
    >> I haven't used a KVM switch before but I think it is pretty much
    >> instantaneous switching so I am thinking that flipping back and forth to
    >> control characters might be doable.
    >
    > If you want a software-only solution, take a look at this:
    >
    > http://www.stardock.com/products/multiplicity/
    >
    > I haven't used it (yet), but it sounds sweet. Just move your mouse off
    > the edge of one monitor and it appears on the other monitor, and your
    > keyboard is also now controlling that PC.
    >
    > --
    > John Gordon "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
    > gordon@panix.com


    That does sound sweet but I didn't really want to cram another monitor on my
    desk as the one I have is a 19" NEC monster that takes up a lot of room. But
    in the Fall my daughter will be off to college with a laptop and she has a
    very nice MAG 15" LCD monitor, so maybe I will squeeze that baby onto my
    desk and do it then.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    One other thing, my new PC will have a gig of ram and maybe running two
    instances of EQ and switching windows would be doable on it. It's got a fast
    video card and is a P4 3.2 so it might perform well enough to multitask two
    instances of EQ. Maybe that is the simplest solution if it works well. Any
    thoughts on doing that anyone? The video card is a ATI Radeon X800-XL with
    256 MB RAM and in performance testing I have seen on Tom's hardware and
    elsewhere appears to me to basically a second tier down from the top end of
    cards today. But it is much, much faster than the NVidia FX-5600 in the P4
    2.2 box with 512 MB RAM I have now and am upgrading from.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:20:22 -0500, "Michael Lyons"
    <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >One other thing, my new PC will have a gig of ram and maybe running two
    >instances of EQ and switching windows would be doable on it. It's got a fast
    >video card and is a P4 3.2 so it might perform well enough to multitask two
    >instances of EQ. Maybe that is the simplest solution if it works well. Any
    >thoughts on doing that anyone? The video card is a ATI Radeon X800-XL with
    >256 MB RAM and in performance testing I have seen on Tom's hardware and
    >elsewhere appears to me to basically a second tier down from the top end of
    >cards today. But it is much, much faster than the NVidia FX-5600 in the P4
    >2.2 box with 512 MB RAM I have now and am upgrading from.

    Yep, should work just fine. I actually prefer to "2-box on 1 box".
    Setup both sessions windowed and just alt-tab back and forth.

    Helps a bit if you have a second drive and can put a copy of EQ on
    each drive, but that's not mandatory. I do that, then I can "de-tune"
    the secondary character a bit. Old graphics, no sound or emotes, etc
    but still have all the bells and whistles on for my main char.


    --
    Elder Lizsolo Spiritmaster - 67 Beastlord
    Baron Darkensolo - 65 Cleric
    Pliska - 52 SK twink hoping to grow into his armor someday...
    Rodcet Nife

    A: Top Posters
    Q: What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Michael Lyons" <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:BqKdnY63R94_7NnfRVn-gw@comcast.com:

    > "the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
    > news:d21o8c$89q$1@reader1.panix.com...
    >> In article <3bGdnYaDZP4eyNnfRVn-hA@comcast.com>,
    >> Michael Lyons <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>>I haven't used a KVM switch before but I think it is pretty much
    >>>instantaneous switching so I am thinking that flipping back and forth
    >>>to control characters might be doable.
    >>
    >> Won't work. There's a very noticable delay especially in how
    >> long video takes to resynch after the switch. I play on a KVM, one
    >> windows one linux box, and if I accidentally switch to the linux box
    >> I usually come back to a bad situation. Also, KVM's sometimes lose
    >> mouse and/or keyboard input especially with frequent or rapid
    >> switching.
    >
    > Bummer, now I am sad. Funny you mentioned Linux on the second box. I
    > was thinking of doing that do as something to do with that PC. I ran
    > Linux exclusively on my main PC for a year and played what games I
    > could using WineX, which I guess is now called Cedega. I was a
    > subscriber and could play things like CS, various shooters, etc. back
    > then. Around the time they started supporting EQ, I went back to
    > Windows for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was that I
    > personally felt that the quality of the KDE Linux desktop and the apps
    > available for it was just not quite ready for primetime and every day
    > use in the home setting. That's my take after dealing with a few
    > crashes too many of all kinds of apps constantly evolving and to
    > varying degrees of beta quality in my estimation. But I think I'd like
    > it fine for something to play with in a separate sandbox and this PC
    > will let me do that. These days, I think I'd go Mandrake again or
    > maybe SuSE.
    >
    >
    >

    I two-boxed for years with a KVM switch AND an external, programmable
    keypad on my second box. With EQ Watcher providing audible feedback for
    the second machine, I was able to do quite a lot without having to
    switch often.

    --
    Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
    Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
    Lanys T'vyl (Retired)

    Mairelon, 15th Paladin
    Silverhand

    My WoW Mods: http://therealorang.com
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote in
    news:t429411vs4ifhmbrmva60qhf13toop5mle@4ax.com:

    > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:19:40 +0000 (UTC), wrat@panix.com (the wharf
    > rat) wrote:
    >
    >> Won't work. There's a very noticable delay especially in how
    >>long video takes to resynch after the switch. I play on a KVM, one
    >>windows one linux box, and if I accidentally switch to the linux box
    >>I usually come back to a bad situation. Also, KVM's sometimes lose
    >>mouse and/or keyboard input especially with frequent or rapid
    >>switching.
    >
    > Some cheap KVM won't take kindly to switching between 2 active
    > computers, often they are designed to share keyboard/mouse/monitor
    > between 2 computers when only one is active. If you try it anyway,
    > you risk blowing out the PS/2 controller in your computer and I don't
    > know of USB version that works.

    Never had a problem with my Belkin electronic KVM - except occasionally
    accidentally double tapping ctrl and switching when I didn't mean to.

    --
    Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
    Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
    Lanys T'vyl (Retired)

    Mairelon, 15th Paladin
    Silverhand

    My WoW Mods: http://therealorang.com
    Yes, FlexBar 1.24 is out :)
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On 25 Mar 2005 12:46:03 -0800, "Xiphos" <xiphos@rahul.net> wrote:

    >Also, if you've never played EverQuest in glorious 3D with red-blue
    >anaglyph glasses, and you're running on an NVidia card, what's wrong
    >with you?! ;)

    Maybe you can explain how to enable Red/Blue 3D mode? Not everyone
    reads the manual and in some cases the manual don't come with the card
    at all.

    I would have prefered the LCD glasses for full colors and even better
    3D effect. (LCD glasses are loke shutter running in synch with the
    monitor so your eye sees one view while your other sys sees other
    view.) I have a vintage Segascope 3D glasses that still work if a way
    was made to interface that to the PC =)
    --
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:16:42 -0500, "Michael Lyons" <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Hey guys, anybody do this? Two-box using a KVM switch to switch between the
    >PCs/instances of EQ?

    Why not just run multiple instances of EQ, in windowed mode, on a single system? Sure, it
    requires some horsepower, but nowhere near as high-end as you might expect.

    Some of the benefits are: no KVM and **potential** loss of video quality from
    less-expensive cables; no loss of underdesk space; normal electrical consumption;
    environmental noise from only a single PC; one set of speakers; no need to maintain the OS
    and applications on 3 different PCs. There are more benefits to be found...just let your
    imagination run wild.

    I built my latest system, and IMO it works famously for boxing. The important stuff under
    the hood is an Abit IC7-G, a 3.0GHz Northwood, 1GB of PC4000 RAM, and a BFG nVidia GeForce
    6800 GT OC. I value a near-silent system, so it's in a full-tower case, cooled by a PC
    Power & Cooling 400W Silencer power supply, a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu, Zalman ZM-NB47J and an
    Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 in place of the horribly noisy stock vidcard cooler. I used
    Arctic Silver 5 on the CPU and the vidcard, and Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy on the NB
    chip. Net-net is that it can run an extended blast of SETI@HOME on both processor
    instances (which heats things up real good according to FanSpeed) and the system remains
    truly barely audible from my chair.

    When boxing, I run a 60 PAL, a 65 CLR and a 57 ENC. The PAL is my main, so he's currently
    receiving a decent helping of out-group powerleveling in my quest for the Holy Pony. I'm
    finding the ZI of Umbral Plains to be perfect for this. Last night I was able to be 1/2
    of a 6-person Rumblecrush pickup raid - meleeing, healing and slowing all on 1 box!

    I run everything from the same EverQuest install folder, using the same executable and
    everything. Once I got my head around the fact that keymappings were going to be the same
    for all three instances, it was very easy to optimize the character's gameplay.

    Lag is not an issue except in PoK and 25+ person raids. I'm running the EQ windows in
    800x600x32, with all the graphical goodies except shadows. I keep the Spell Effects set
    to Myself and NPC, otherwise the windows get too visually cluttered.

    I only have 1 issue to work out, and it's related to zoning more than 1 character at a
    time. If I zone more than 1 character at a time the system will thrash for a minute or
    more...and while zoning, the system lags bad enough that switching between windows is
    laggy and occasionally flat-out unreliable. Once the zoning character pops into his new
    zone, everything returns to normal. Right now I work around this with some careful
    planning, but I'd love to not have to be quite so careful.

    Best regards,

    Tim ==
    (substitute 'tcsys.com' for 'nospam.co.uk')
    _________________

    Seeq Endestroi
    Paladin of Mithanial Marr, The Rathe
    http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=507035

    Grave Wisdom / Grave Intentions - a Rathe Guild
    http://www.gravewisdom.com
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    > >Also, if you've never played EverQuest in glorious 3D with red-blue
    > >anaglyph glasses, and you're running on an NVidia card, what's wrong
    > >with you?! ;)
    >
    > Maybe you can explain how to enable Red/Blue 3D mode? Not everyone
    > reads the manual and in some cases the manual don't come with the
    card
    > at all.
    >
    > I would have prefered the LCD glasses for full colors and even better
    > 3D effect. (LCD glasses are loke shutter running in synch with the
    > monitor so your eye sees one view while your other sys sees other
    > view.) I have a vintage Segascope 3D glasses that still work if a
    way
    > was made to interface that to the PC =)

    Oh, sure, I'd be happy too : )

    It's no where in the manual, and the drivers don't ship with any cards.
    However, NVidia does make the drivers available for free from their
    website. Go to NVidia's home page at http://www.nvidia.com, and select
    "Download Drivers." You should be presented with three list boxes,
    only the first of which should have any content just yet. The last
    choice, "Consumer 3D Stereo" is the one you want. This driver works
    with all NVidia graphics cards. Select the OS appropriate for you and
    click "GO". When you download the drivers, make sure the 3D driver
    revision number matches the revision number on your video card drivers,
    or it won't work; as of March 11, the latest Consumer 3D drivers match
    the revision of the latest video card drivers. Download as neccessary.

    Once you have the drivers downloaded, installed, and your system has
    been rebooted, right-click on your desktop and select "NVIDIA
    Display->(Your Display)". In the left-side window listing, you should
    see a new entry, "Stereo Properties." Select this; I like to set mine
    to "Enable by Hot Key." In the past, other stereo types were
    supported, such as your mentioned flip-glasses, but it looks like only
    anaglyph is currently supported (I sure hope this changes with future
    revisions; I was looking forward to using this setup in conjunction
    with a lenticular 3D LCD display).

    I recommend looking through the options under Stereo Properties. Under
    "Advanced Stereo Properties" is where you can set the hotkey to toggle
    3D on/off (I like to set it to a complex combination of keys not used
    in-game, like ctr-alt-f3). Stereo Setup & Test is just that, and so
    forth.

    I hope you and others find this usefull. Enjoy EverQuest in full,
    glorious 3D!

    As an aside, I'm suprised NVidia doesn't advertise this built-in
    functionality more. IMO, it puts their product well ahead of ATI
    boards, and makes any 3D game that much more immersive without
    requiring additional expensive hardware. I'm equally suprised
    Everquest, which is specifically listed under the suported games,
    doesn't make better and consistant use of this feature; for example,
    names and spell effects are 2D sprites overlaid on the 3D environment,
    remaining level with the monitor's glass plane. Old-world flame
    effects, such as torches, follow their respective sources in the 3D
    layer, while newer locations, such as Cabilis or the bazaar are again
    2D sprites overlaid on the 3D environment.
    --
    Xiphos - As another aside, either groups.google.com needs to add a
    "quote" function, or I need to pony up the money for a proper news feed
    and go back to using tin.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Xiphos" <xiphos@rahul.net> wrote in message
    news:1111783563.464820.119340@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

    > Also, if you've never played EverQuest in glorious 3D with red-blue
    > anaglyph glasses, and you're running on an NVidia card, what's wrong
    > with you?! ;)
    > --
    > Xiphos - No, seriously. It literally adds depth to the game! Really
    > accentuates the polygons on old models, though.

    Hmmmm, I want to look into this. Will be off work tomorrow until next Friday
    night. Woo-hoo!!

    So, could you tell me what anaglyph glasses are and where I can read
    about/purchase them on the Web?

    Is the special Nvidia driver you refer to below in another post something
    that makes some kind of difference in the display on a standard CRT monitor
    or does this driver require some kind of special hardware or glasses that
    you wear?

    Enquiring minds want to know!

    Thanks. And thanks to all for the interesting discussion here about the ways
    and means you approach 2 boxing with. I am definately looking forward to
    giving it a try.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:37:16 -0500, "Michael Lyons"
    <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Hmmmm, I want to look into this. Will be off work tomorrow until next Friday
    >night. Woo-hoo!!
    >
    >So, could you tell me what anaglyph glasses are and where I can read
    >about/purchase them on the Web?

    Any standard red/blue glasses will work. You may have one already
    from an old 3D movie, comic books, some Nintendo games, etc.

    >Is the special Nvidia driver you refer to below in another post something
    >that makes some kind of difference in the display on a standard CRT monitor
    >or does this driver require some kind of special hardware or glasses that
    >you wear?

    The added driver just adds the 3D support to any NVidia cards. It has
    the ability to sue 3D move, it just need to driver to add the feature
    and make it work with many 3D games.

    I have done as told in other post and while the worlkd is mostly
    red/blue rather than the usual full color, it does have 3D effect that
    almost makes you want to keep using the red/blue glasses.

    I only saw the option for red/blue glasses, no other 3D mode at this
    time with the current video driver. I do wish they would use the LCD
    shutter glasses so I can get the 3D effect but in full color. And I'm
    begining to think it won't happen as LCD monitor are becoming more
    popular. LCD monitor and LCD glasses wouldn't work together well
    (ever wear polarized sunglasses? You'd notice you can see the LCD
    display only if you're viewing it at a certain angle or it's all
    black)
    --
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Michael Lyons wrote:
    > I wonder how SLI is going to do in the market. Dual processors never
    really
    > caught on.

    Dual-core CPU's. Chip manufacturers have pretty much hit the physical
    limitations modern die manufacturing will allow, so now we're getting
    multiple CPU's on a single chip die.

    Also, dual-CPU did previously catch on, in a big way, just not in the
    home market.
    --
    Xiphos - So, essentially, a dual-CPU with two dual-core proccessors
    would be a quad-cpu system. Man, that'd be sweet.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Michael Lyons wrote:
    > You're right. I'm sorry. I was forgetting that at one point I had
    asked
    > about finding further sources of info and was thinking somebody who
    knew
    > about it or had made a purchase would be able to provide specific
    info from
    > their experience. But maybe that was the guy's intent and I was
    jumping the
    > gun, so to the person who provided the above quoted answer, please
    accept my
    > apology for jumping to conclusions when in fact you were nice enough
    to
    > explain a good deal about this for me and anyone else interested.

    No worries; the impersonal nature of text-only has led to many
    misinterpretations and misunderstandings throughout the history of
    usenet. I'm sure this won't be the last, either.

    At any rate, you expressed interest in alternatives to glasses. I
    myself also wear corrective lenses, so I do understand the problem.
    Fortunately, many solutions exist, including but not limited to clip-on
    anaglyph lenses and, my preferred, oversized anaglyph glasses that
    simply fit on over ones regular glasses. Most stores selling anaglyph
    filters offer both solutions. I would have recommended where I bought
    mine, but it was so long ago and the number of sites selling from a
    google search are so numerous I did not feel qualified to directly
    answer that portion of the question directly.

    I don't like the clip-on anaglyph filters as much as the over-sized
    glasses. Clip-ons are usually borderless, and thus tend to let a lot
    of external light in through the sides. I have the same problem with
    clip-on sunglasses. So, unless you're very good at touch-typing (I
    can't touch-type to save my life, despite having been working with
    computers since the early 80's) and play in a completely darkened room,
    I do not recommend this solution.

    Most anaglyph glasses seem to be oversized anyhow, my personal
    favorites being the ones with thick plastic frames. These do a
    fantastic job of blocking peripheral light, allowing my eyes to better
    adjust to the red-blue filters.

    One thing I should also probably note is that most anaglyph lenses are
    actually red-cyan filters, not actually red-blue. This is not usually
    a problem, as the NVidia drivers output red-cyan images. However some
    anaglyph vendors have specific red-blue filters; these will not work as
    well as standard red-cyan filters, and if you adjust the NVidia's
    anaglyph output to use red-blue instead of red-cyan, the colors become
    seriously messed up when actually viewing the 3D image. Looks like
    16-color or somesuch.

    A final thing I should probably note are in-game colors and anaglyph.
    Before using any anaglyph setup, make sure none of your text messages
    are in either the red or blue spectrum, or you will have a difficult
    time reading it. Also, the red and blue targetting rings will look
    funky, with green and light-blue being difficult to discern. And any
    area that uses inordinate ammounts of red, such as many of the inns in
    the human cities, or blue, like much of the water, will be difficult to
    maintain the 3D illusion. There's also often some bleedover between
    the overlain images, as neither the monitors colors nor the anaglyph
    filters are ever perfect, resulting in some ghosting of certain
    objects, usually bright objects such as light-sources.

    Despite those few, really minor IMO, flaws, it's still quite an
    experience to look out across the vast Karana plains, out over the
    Commons valley, down into the pit, over the Field of Bone, up at any
    one of the numerous spires, and really get a feel for the size of the
    place that you just don't get from a purely 2-dimensional view. And
    then some Kunark goblin gets all in your face and your like "RAWRG! Get
    back on that side of the glass, stupid goblin! No, don't you- don't you
    dare slobber on my keyboard! Back you vile thing, BACK! Stop licking
    me! AUGH!"
    --
    Xiphos - I blame UNIX. Something about dealing with UNIX for years and
    years seems to make one sound inadvertantly condescending. Even in
    person.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Seeq Endestroi <seeq@nospam.co.uk> wrote in
    news:f8ra41l790ipfb2ok4l6861ano9i7afliq@4ax.com:

    > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:16:42 -0500, "Michael Lyons"
    > <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Hey guys, anybody do this? Two-box using a KVM switch to switch
    >>between the PCs/instances of EQ?

    First you say...

    > Why not just run multiple instances of EQ, in windowed mode, on a
    > single system? Sure, it requires some horsepower, but nowhere near as
    > high-end as you might expect.

    Then you describe your system...

    > I built my latest system, and IMO it works famously for boxing. The
    > important stuff under the hood is an Abit IC7-G, a 3.0GHz Northwood,
    > 1GB of PC4000 RAM, and a BFG nVidia GeForce 6800 GT OC. I value a
    > near-silent system, so it's in a full-tower case, cooled by a PC Power
    > & Cooling 400W Silencer power supply, a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu, Zalman
    > ZM-NB47J and an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 in place of the horribly
    > noisy stock vidcard cooler. I used Arctic Silver 5 on the CPU and the
    > vidcard, and Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy on the NB chip. Net-net is
    > that it can run an extended blast of SETI@HOME on both processor
    > instances (which heats things up real good according to FanSpeed) and
    > the system remains truly barely audible from my chair.

    "Nowhere near as high end as we might expect"? That's funny. :P

    Other than that, thanks for the great info.

    --
    Rumble
    "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
    -- Benjamin Franklin
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:32:04 GMT, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

    >"Nowhere near as high end as we might expect"? That's funny. :P

    Heh. Your point is well taken...but still, I do not consider my system to be leading-edge
    in March 2005. Powerful, yes. Leading-edge? No.

    I'm at 800MHz FSB; 1.066GHz FSB systems are available for not all that much more than you
    would pay for an 800MHz FSB system. My memory is DDR2 400; DDR2 533 is again the
    leading-edge. I have a 3.0GHz HT Northwood; you can get a 3.0GHz HT Prescott if you want
    to cough up the bucks (and cool the thing with a Trane central a/c coil). I have 8x AGP
    Pro; PCI-E x16 is available even on $500 Dell workstations.

    I won't contrast my system against those with AMD CPUs, because I'm not very knowledgeable
    about such things. But I believe I am correct in saying that there are readily-available
    AMD systems out there that can whoop my system's arse like Gorenaire on a naked monk
    making a corpse run to Karnor's Castle.

    I suppose that what I was trying to say, was that the OP could probably run 2 instances of
    EQ on a mid-range system. Shame that I started bragging and forgot to make my point. :->
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:45:17 -0600, Seeq Endestroi <seeq@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

    >I have a 3.0GHz HT Northwood; you can get a 3.0GHz HT Prescott if you want
    >to cough up the bucks (and cool the thing with a Trane central a/c coil).

    DAMN my proofreading skills - I meant to say,

    "you can get a 3.73GHz HT Prescott"
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Seeq Endestroi" <seeq@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:rkqi41dnut47vsl97k1gelbinlda6vdl8t@4ax.com...
    > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:32:04 GMT, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>"Nowhere near as high end as we might expect"? That's funny. :P
    >
    > Heh. Your point is well taken...but still, I do not consider my system to
    > be leading-edge
    > in March 2005. Powerful, yes. Leading-edge? No.
    >
    > I'm at 800MHz FSB; 1.066GHz FSB systems are available for not all that
    > much more than you
    > would pay for an 800MHz FSB system. My memory is DDR2 400; DDR2 533 is
    > again the
    > leading-edge. I have a 3.0GHz HT Northwood; you can get a 3.0GHz HT
    > Prescott if you want
    > to cough up the bucks (and cool the thing with a Trane central a/c coil).
    > I have 8x AGP
    > Pro; PCI-E x16 is available even on $500 Dell workstations.
    >
    > I won't contrast my system against those with AMD CPUs, because I'm not
    > very knowledgeable
    > about such things. But I believe I am correct in saying that there are
    > readily-available
    > AMD systems out there that can whoop my system's arse like Gorenaire on a
    > naked monk
    > making a corpse run to Karnor's Castle.
    >
    > I suppose that what I was trying to say, was that the OP could probably
    > run 2 instances of
    > EQ on a mid-range system. Shame that I started bragging and forgot to
    > make my point. :->

    Ha! ha! Don't worry about it. We all know that as soon as we unpack the
    boxes of our own latest greatest gaming rigs even if they are absolute
    bleeding edge the day we unpack them, it will only be a short time before
    they are less than that, then midrange, etc. It's funny how you can blow a
    few grand for a high end gaming PC so easily (can you even get "high end"
    for that?) and yet the moment you boot that baby it up, it basically
    depreciates a full 50%.

    I think to be truly high end these days for example, you'd really need an
    SLI video subsystem in your PC running a couple of the fastest video cards
    currently available, not to mention everything else in the box being the
    fastest, hottest, etc.

    I wonder how SLI is going to do in the market. Dual processors never really
    caught on. And really, what is the benefit for all that expense when a
    current top end card can run any modern game at high detail, effects, etc.
    without lag. I guess it might be kind of cool to see EQ2 with display
    improvements no modern hardware is said to be capable of. I thought I read
    something about it being designed that way for the future. So I wonder if an
    SLI equipped box opens up some of the eye candy for view or not. But really,
    to a guy like me who remembers playing games where you could count the
    polygons on the fingers of your hands for the entire display, modern games
    look so good with midrange gear that it is pretty hard to justify anything
    more expensive than that unless you just happen to very well off and don't
    know what else to do with your money.

    On the bright side though, I just bought a new PC, which is very nice but
    not leading edge by any means and I did get a PCI-E card for it. I wound up
    picking it up a few days later than planned and as fate would have it, the
    ATI board I had them put aside for me (an X800-XL) dropped $100. in price
    from the time I called to the time I came to make the buy. I guess a newer,
    faster, better, etc. ATI card must be in the wings which will push down
    pricing on the rest of the line from the top on down (not that mine was the
    top anyway). That's just fine with me because this will still be far and
    away the nicest system I have ever been fortunate enough to play on.

    Thanks to Uncle Sam for giving me back a lot of my money this year and
    making this possible. I spent it wisely and I hope my contibution to the
    economy helps. :-)
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Seeq Endestroi" <seeq@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:2tui41pep011jg1d3iletii81hvgfmhib5@4ax.com...
    > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:45:17 -0600, Seeq Endestroi <seeq@nospam.co.uk>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>I have a 3.0GHz HT Northwood; you can get a 3.0GHz HT Prescott if you want
    >>to cough up the bucks (and cool the thing with a Trane central a/c coil).
    >
    > DAMN my proofreading skills - I meant to say,
    >
    > "you can get a 3.73GHz HT Prescott"

    That's ok. I was too busy laughing about the Trane cooling system to notice
    that myself. Hehe....
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:52:59 -0500, "Michael Lyons" <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >I wonder how SLI is going to do in the market.

    Dear Lord, I still have my SLI VLB GeForce 2 cards with their add-on coolers, sitting in a
    drawers in my office. EEEEK!!
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Michael Lyons" <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:t4ednQhClusswNTfRVn-iw@comcast.com:

    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Xiphos" <xiphos@rahul.net>
    > Newsgroups: alt.games.everquest
    > Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:21 PM
    > Subject: Re: Two-boxing with 2 PC's and a KVM switch
    >
    >
    >> Michael Lyons writes:
    >>
    >>> Hmmmm, I want to look into this. Will be off work tomorrow until
    >>> next
    >> Friday
    >>> night. Woo-hoo!!
    >>>
    >>> So, could you tell me what anaglyph glasses are and where I can read
    >>> about/purchase them on the Web?
    >>
    >> Google's probably the best place to look, really. It's amazing how
    >> many questions can be answered by checking Google. Anaglyph is what
    >> the red-blue filter method of 3D imaging is called.
    >
    > I often do use Google and many times search either the Web or Google
    > groups for information and sites I seek. However, since we were
    > discussing these here and you seemed to know quite a bit about them,
    > it seemed reasonable to ask for more detailed info right here.
    >
    > Basically, I could opt to never post or ask anything here or anywhere
    > else for that matter and simply search Google. But I like talking with
    > people about things of mutual interest. I am neither lazy nor stupid
    > but I guess I am somewhat sociable. Like many of you I imagine, I have
    > been using the Internet for longer than the "Web" has existed.
    >
    > Oh, and I do visit dictionary.com as well from time to time.
    >
    > Sorry if I seem cranky here but I can see referring someone to Google
    > when you either do not know the answer to their question or for
    > whatever reasons simply prefer not to answer it. However, if you do
    > know the answer and you intend to provide it, I really do not
    > understand telling someone they should Google for it. I interpret that
    > as mild annoyance that I failed to look it up myself and a pointer to
    > do so next time. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Ha! ha! Now,
    > that's a silly thing to say on a newsgroup isn't it? Here of all
    > places on earth one can always depend upon being corrected if they are
    > wrong.

    I don't get it. You asked where you might read more about the product,
    and he told you. He recommended Google with a quick plug in case you
    weren't already familiar with it. There are a lot of different levels of
    knowledge here and no reason to make too many assumptions when you can
    simply and briefly accommodate everyone at once.

    Whereas your preference may have been for the poster to answer your
    questions here, I didn't see their response as insulting at all.

    --
    Rumble
    "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
    -- Benjamin Franklin
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Rumbledor" <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns962862BD14E0CRumbledorhotmailcom@216.148.227.77...
    > "Michael Lyons" <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote in
    > news:t4ednQhClusswNTfRVn-iw@comcast.com:
    >
    >> ----- Original Message -----
    >> From: "Xiphos" <xiphos@rahul.net>
    >> Newsgroups: alt.games.everquest
    >> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:21 PM
    >> Subject: Re: Two-boxing with 2 PC's and a KVM switch
    >>
    >>
    >>> Michael Lyons writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hmmmm, I want to look into this. Will be off work tomorrow until
    >>>> next
    >>> Friday
    >>>> night. Woo-hoo!!
    >>>>
    >>>> So, could you tell me what anaglyph glasses are and where I can read
    >>>> about/purchase them on the Web?
    >>>
    >>> Google's probably the best place to look, really. It's amazing how
    >>> many questions can be answered by checking Google. Anaglyph is what
    >>> the red-blue filter method of 3D imaging is called.
    >>
    >> I often do use Google and many times search either the Web or Google
    >> groups for information and sites I seek. However, since we were
    >> discussing these here and you seemed to know quite a bit about them,
    >> it seemed reasonable to ask for more detailed info right here.
    >>
    >> Basically, I could opt to never post or ask anything here or anywhere
    >> else for that matter and simply search Google. But I like talking with
    >> people about things of mutual interest. I am neither lazy nor stupid
    >> but I guess I am somewhat sociable. Like many of you I imagine, I have
    >> been using the Internet for longer than the "Web" has existed.
    >>
    >> Oh, and I do visit dictionary.com as well from time to time.
    >>
    >> Sorry if I seem cranky here but I can see referring someone to Google
    >> when you either do not know the answer to their question or for
    >> whatever reasons simply prefer not to answer it. However, if you do
    >> know the answer and you intend to provide it, I really do not
    >> understand telling someone they should Google for it. I interpret that
    >> as mild annoyance that I failed to look it up myself and a pointer to
    >> do so next time. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Ha! ha! Now,
    >> that's a silly thing to say on a newsgroup isn't it? Here of all
    >> places on earth one can always depend upon being corrected if they are
    >> wrong.
    >
    > I don't get it. You asked where you might read more about the product,
    > and he told you. He recommended Google with a quick plug in case you
    > weren't already familiar with it. There are a lot of different levels of
    > knowledge here and no reason to make too many assumptions when you can
    > simply and briefly accommodate everyone at once.
    >
    > Whereas your preference may have been for the poster to answer your
    > questions here, I didn't see their response as insulting at all.

    You're right. I'm sorry. I was forgetting that at one point I had asked
    about finding further sources of info and was thinking somebody who knew
    about it or had made a purchase would be able to provide specific info from
    their experience. But maybe that was the guy's intent and I was jumping the
    gun, so to the person who provided the above quoted answer, please accept my
    apology for jumping to conclusions when in fact you were nice enough to
    explain a good deal about this for me and anyone else interested.

    I love your Ben Franklin quote by the way. That is the best one I think I've
    seen in quite some time. :-)
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote in
    news:hhah41h67tdrtvs0iaj37esshk073882ga@4ax.com:

    > On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:37:16 -0500, "Michael Lyons"
    > <Linmukai@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Hmmmm, I want to look into this. Will be off work tomorrow until next
    >>Friday night. Woo-hoo!!
    >>
    >>So, could you tell me what anaglyph glasses are and where I can read
    >>about/purchase them on the Web?
    >
    > Any standard red/blue glasses will work. You may have one already
    > from an old 3D movie, comic books, some Nintendo games, etc.
    >
    >>Is the special Nvidia driver you refer to below in another post
    >>something that makes some kind of difference in the display on a
    >>standard CRT monitor or does this driver require some kind of special
    >>hardware or glasses that you wear?
    >
    > The added driver just adds the 3D support to any NVidia cards. It has
    > the ability to sue 3D move, it just need to driver to add the feature
    > and make it work with many 3D games.
    >
    > I have done as told in other post and while the worlkd is mostly
    > red/blue rather than the usual full color, it does have 3D effect that
    > almost makes you want to keep using the red/blue glasses.
    >
    > I only saw the option for red/blue glasses, no other 3D mode at this
    > time with the current video driver. I do wish they would use the LCD
    > shutter glasses so I can get the 3D effect but in full color. And I'm
    > begining to think it won't happen as LCD monitor are becoming more
    > popular. LCD monitor and LCD glasses wouldn't work together well
    > (ever wear polarized sunglasses? You'd notice you can see the LCD
    > display only if you're viewing it at a certain angle or it's all
    > black)

    Another issue with attempting to use an LCD monitor for this is the
    persistance of the pixels is significantly higher than on a standard CRT
    monitor. It may be low enough now that it would not be an issue, not
    sure.

    --
    On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
    Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

    On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
    Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage
    Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    In article <rkqi41dnut47vsl97k1gelbinlda6vdl8t@4ax.com>,
    seeq@nospam.co.uk says...
    > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:32:04 GMT, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >"Nowhere near as high end as we might expect"? That's funny. :P
    >
    > Heh. Your point is well taken...but still, I do not consider my system to be leading-edge
    > in March 2005. Powerful, yes. Leading-edge? No.

    That's like owning a 2004 Porsche 911 Turbo and telling the masses he
    doesn't consider it a high end car. "Its 2005 don't ya know."

    I'll tell you a secret... ALL of last years supercars will still blow
    away 99.9% of this years fleet. Yep all those 2005 Toyotas, Hondas,
    Fords, & Chevy's are not faster than 2004 911s, nevermind 911 turbos.
    The same is true for that $500 Dell PCI-Ex16 machine...Beleive it or not
    it would be a serious downgrade for you. ;)


    > I'm at 800MHz FSB; 1.066GHz FSB systems are available for not all that much more than you
    > would pay for an 800MHz FSB system. My memory is DDR2 400; DDR2 533 is again the
    > leading-edge.
    > I have a 3.0GHz HT Northwood; you can get a 3.0GHz HT Prescott if you want
    > to cough up the bucks (and cool the thing with a Trane central a/c coil). I have 8x AGP
    > Pro; PCI-E x16 is available even on $500 Dell workstations.

    /sigh

    We're looking at single digits in actual performance improvments there.
    Probably small single digits.

    > I won't contrast my system against those with AMD CPUs, because I'm not very knowledgeable
    > about such things. But I believe I am correct in saying that there are readily-available
    > AMD systems out there that can whoop my system's arse like Gorenaire on a naked monk
    > making a corpse run to Karnor's Castle.

    Sure. 2nd place is the first loser. =)

    > I suppose that what I was trying to say, was that the OP could probably run 2 instances of
    > EQ on a mid-range system. Shame that I started bragging and forgot to make my point. :->

    A midrange system being a generic Pentium 4 2.0GHz system with 1GB of
    RAM and a half decent video card... even an nvidia geforce ti4600 would
    be more than adequate for 2xEQ. I'm sure people out there do it with
    even less.

    PS I didn't find it germane to include brands, makes, and model numbers
    of the cooling fans and motherboard screws. Rest assured that it will
    need both though. ;)

    (PPS Just poking a little fun, don't take it personally.)
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    Seeq Endestroi <seeq@nospam.co.uk> wrote in
    news:rkqi41dnut47vsl97k1gelbinlda6vdl8t@4ax.com:

    > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:32:04 GMT, Rumbledor
    > <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>"Nowhere near as high end as we might expect"? That's funny. :P
    >
    > Heh. Your point is well taken...but still, I do not consider my
    > system to be leading-edge in March 2005. Powerful, yes.
    > Leading-edge? No.
    >
    > I'm at 800MHz FSB; 1.066GHz FSB systems are available for not all that
    > much more than you would pay for an 800MHz FSB system. My memory is
    > DDR2 400; DDR2 533 is again the leading-edge. I have a 3.0GHz HT
    > Northwood; you can get a 3.0GHz HT Prescott if you want to cough up
    > the bucks (and cool the thing with a Trane central a/c coil). I have
    > 8x AGP Pro; PCI-E x16 is available even on $500 Dell workstations.
    >
    > I won't contrast my system against those with AMD CPUs, because I'm
    > not very knowledgeable about such things. But I believe I am correct
    > in saying that there are readily-available AMD systems out there that
    > can whoop my system's arse like Gorenaire on a naked monk making a
    > corpse run to Karnor's Castle.
    >
    > I suppose that what I was trying to say, was that the OP could
    > probably run 2 instances of EQ on a mid-range system. Shame that I
    > started bragging and forgot to make my point. :->
    >

    I have tried 2 boxing on my system, but did not go so far as to crank
    down everything. It was usable for bringing in a cleric for a rez, but
    not for actually playing. I have an AMD XP 3200+ with 1GB of dual
    channel DDR3200 memory and an ATi 9800 Pro with 128MB or DDR. I would
    consider my system a midrange system...

    --
    On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
    Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

    On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
    Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage
    Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

    "Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> skrev i meddelandet
    news:Xns96287615F4759richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
    >
    > I have tried 2 boxing on my system, but did not go so far as to crank
    > down everything. It was usable for bringing in a cleric for a rez, but
    > not for actually playing. I have an AMD XP 3200+ with 1GB of dual
    > channel DDR3200 memory and an ATi 9800 Pro with 128MB or DDR. I would
    > consider my system a midrange system...
    >

    I too have an AMD Athlon XP 3200+ with 1 GB RAM as my main computer, and run
    3 instances of EQ on it, two of them without sound and luclin models, and
    they are all very playable.
    The "max framerate" setting is important for the performance (I think).


    I 4-box, and people always ask if I have 4 computers.

    No, I have 2 computers, a dedicated machine for the enchanter and all others
    on the same machine.

    /NZ
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