The war is over! And now for the consequences.

Knowan... you're my friend. This is almost exactly how I see it.

Democracy in Iraq? Apart from the USA and Brittain the world wonders how they ever going to do that.

And Middle-East experts predict that the Iraqi civilians will turn against the coalition forces in 2-4 weeks... no wonder if it is one big mess in your country as soon as it has been freed. They also predict civil wars... what a nice results of this war.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

The US is not going to select a government. The Iraqis will have to vote for one.

<font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA</font color=red>

Watch and learn, baby.

The only thing that could fock it all up is if we let the U.N. get involved in the nation-building aspect. Let them help out with reconstruction and humanitarian efforts, but let them keep their thumbs out of the plum pie.

The world is going to figure out that the U.S. can accomplish just about anything given time and a little commitment. The naysayers are just clots in the artery of progress. Some way, some how, the Middle East has GOT to get yanked into the 21st century. Let them hate us. They already hate us. What has diplomacy gotten us?

At least now they will fear us. Why do you think North Korea suddenly wants multi-lateral discussions? Why do you suppose Syria is sweating?

Because we said we were going to do something, and we did it. It's the total opposite of the way the U.N. does things.





<-----Insert witty sig line here.

Unless they escape into syria

<b>True Class: Just roll her over and do her doggy style. And put a laptop on her back and tell us what its like live on irc.</b>
<A HREF="http://members.iinet.net.au/~lhgpoobaa/images" target="_new">http://members.iinet.net.au/~lhgpoobaa/images</A>

Heh, I don't think the election of one of Saddam's sons or brothers to office is something we have to worry about any more.

War Eagle

Actually here's a question. Lets say that Urday or one of Saddam's soms/brothers is captured. Not killed mind you but captured. Then what? What do they do with him?

What crime do you charge him with? What court do you try him in?

UN war crimes tribunal? What are the war crimes? Do you really think that the UN will find him guilty of anything?

Try him in the US or Britan? What law has he broken?

Just jail him indefinatly? Would the US do that? Would Britan?

The only real option is to hand him over to the Iraquis and let them deal with him. How would the intrim government or an elected Iraqui government deal with him?

No, you can't afford to take him alive. Especially when the worst that can be said of him is that he's Saddam's son or brother and a Bathe party member.

I mean think about it for a minute. Would you arrest the brother/son/wife of Charles Manson simply because they are the brother/son/wife of a mass murderer? Would that hold up in court?

So if Saddam's son or brother is captured eventually he will have to be let go. Once he's let go then in a democratic society he has the right to vote and to run for office.

Of course in all likelyhood if he is captured he'll be held for questioning for awhile and then released into Iraqui custody, where he'll be tried on some trumped up charges and executed. But if he's not executed then there's a chance that he could become the next elected leader of the Iraqui people. Not a good chance mind you, but a chance none the less.

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Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.

An "unfortunate accident" would suffice.

War Eagle

It's been said that his sons are worse than him. He'd be charged with murder, rape, torture, etc etc...

<font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA</font color=red>

True, especially Urday, who is likely quite insane.

What I'm trying to get at is IF there are truely free elections and IF there is no US/British interferance and IF its the remnents of the Bathe party that gets elected (which is a possibility if the elections are truely free)and IF Saddam's sons are captured alive and turned over to the Iraquis/UN for prosecution and IF they are then turned loose with nothing but a slap on the wrist THEN MAYBE there is a CHANCE that they could wind up getting elected. Stranger things have happened.

Like I said, you can't really afford to take them alive. And if you do manage to take them alive you sure as hell aren't going to turn them over to the Iraquis/UN.

Anyway, there's precious little chance of that happening now. The colition forces have just released their plans for the interim government <A HREF="http://www.hispeed.rogers.com/news/iraq_war/story.jsp?cid=7041504AU" target="_new">http://www.hispeed.rogers.com/news/iraq_war/story.jsp?cid=7041504AU</A>

here's a few quotes:

"Will we get a complete government in place in that time [3 to 6 months]? I doubt it," Cross said. "One has to go through the process of building from the bottom up, allowing the leadership to establish itself, and then the election process to go through and so forth. That full electoral process may well take longer."

and:

"the Americans have outlined what Garner's administration would look like: Each ministry would be headed by an American, either military or civilian. Each minister would have two American deputies and eight American advisers, plus four Iraqi advisers from inside the country and four Iraqi exiles."

So as I said at the begining of this thread, there is precious little chance of free elections anytime in the near furture. The Interim government will last for a few years and the first election will be controlled.

And that is as it should be. If I was in charge of it I wouldn't do it any other way, except possibly giving the British a bit more control as well (that way you can possibly shift some of the blame/resentment off onto the British). You can't just take out the local power structure and not control what takes its place, otherwise there's too great a chance that you'll be going back in there again in a few years. You have to control who is given power and when, get the poipulation used to these new rulers, have them forget their old loyalities. Otherwise you get anarchy.

And if there truely are free elections who are you going to vote for, the guy who's always been in power and who's name you know or the Iraqui exile who ran away when things got tough? Better the devil you know that that one you don't.

It's just common sense. Like I said if I was in charge then I would do the exact same thing.

Further predictions: The Kurds won't get their oilfields. You'll just annoy too many people if you start giving the Kurds power now. They might just as well face facts that just like in Desert Storm they will be used and then cast aside. That's one thing I might like to see change if I was in charge, but it looks like people are just too worried about how the Turks will react, and too worried about trying to control 2 different governments with oil reserves instead of just one.

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Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.

I'm hoping they did learn something from Afghanistan but only time will tell. You must admit though that the cards are stacked against the Americans ever getting a long term US-friendly government in Iraq. Really their only chance for stability, or at least the kind of stability they want, is long-term occupation. Of course long-term occupation is expensive, and I'm not just talking about money. Actually I'm talking about money least of all.

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Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.

Okay I should've say: and I will learn how to do it wrongly.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

Forget it. It's a waste of your time. It's easy to point out mistakes, but it's not easy to fix them. I mean have you actually heard him give any constructive ideas? No you haven't. Why? Cause he gets off on making people mad. He's the king of the world in his own little mind, and no matter what anyone else does it's wrong. It's wrong period. We should all overthrow our government and then live like the dutch. That would solve all of the world problems. Because the dutch are the smartest muddafuckers in the world. Hell they don't even have to read things to know them, they just know them. No matter what personal or learned experience you have it doesn't compare to dutch news sources. The dutch are the sh|t. They're just waiting for the right moment to take over the world.

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=324&s=58e94ba84a16bedfebbf0f416d5bac48" target="_new">I reckon all women should learn how to do an engine re-build so they can get the right to vote.</A>

Dude, I know you're right. I keep saying I won't reply, and like you say, he makes me mad and I go at it again thinking that my reasoned and rational argument will prevail, but no. Fu c k it.

<font color=blue>"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum" - Roddy Piper</font color=blue>

LOL!

Any man can withstand adversity...The true test of character is to give a man power <i>Abraham Lincoln</i>

Go for it. I don't mind.

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=324&s=58e94ba84a16bedfebbf0f416d5bac48" target="_new">I reckon all women should learn how to do an engine re-build so they can get the right to vote.</A>

What a rant.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

Why thank you.

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=324&s=58e94ba84a16bedfebbf0f416d5bac48" target="_new">I reckon all women should learn how to do an engine re-build so they can get the right to vote.</A>

LOL... maybe the rural areas... the cities (where the majority lives) are pretty advanced for that part of the world.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

I tried telling him the same thing weeks ago. But he dosen't listen . It is useless with him.

I aint signing nothing!!!

You would never make it on survivor or any of the reality shows. They'd vote you off in a heartbeat.

<font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA</font color=red>

LOL that is true they aren't very advanced. But compared to Africa (where alrge parts really live in the stone age) they're pretty advanced. And compared to Europe, Asia and America they're just a couple of decades behind.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on