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Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Tonight was my first time since the patch that I've done much beyond
setting up my bazaar mule, and as I was poking around I discovered a
change that I don't remember seeing mentioned in the patch message:
It seems some of the terms used in item descriptions got changed.
Instead of "NO DROP" it now says "NO TRADE", and instead of "NO RENT"
it says "TEMPORARY".

Now, I'll grant that the new terms are a bit clearer (to someone who
wasn't already familiar with the old ones, that is), but it might've
been nice if they'd mentioned it. And of course, it means all those
old screenshots on Alla, and all the old discussions in all the forums,
will now be using terms that newcomers to the game will have no chance
of understanding.

Anyway, I didn't notice any other terminology changes offhand, but if
anyone spots some, please let me know, since I'll need to update the
FAQ glossary (and probably other parts as well).

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
-- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr

More about : terminology

Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Don Woods" <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote in message
news:7wu0lzjesl.fsf@ca.icynic.com...

> Tonight was my first time since the patch that I've done much beyond
> setting up my bazaar mule, and as I was poking around I discovered a
> change that I don't remember seeing mentioned in the patch message:
> It seems some of the terms used in item descriptions got changed.
> Instead of "NO DROP" it now says "NO TRADE", and instead of "NO RENT"
> it says "TEMPORARY".

These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the new SOE
standard. LORE retains its original meaning. Does EQ1 have designations for
NO VALUE (meaning cannot sell to a vendor) or NO DESTROY (meaning you can't
destroy it)?

--
Redbeard, the Relic Keeper
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic of 50 Winters & Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of Qeynos Harbor
http://veritas.everquest2guilds.com
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?charac...

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
> > some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also)
that's
> > find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why can't I
have
> > more then one? And why can I trade them but not put them in my
shared
> > bank? Doesn't make sense to me.

> It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....

How? I can't think of any possible exploit or advantage I would gain.
They are only good for one thing.

I can sell them but not give them to an alt. Doesn't that just
unbalance it? I haven't tried but I bet I could give it to another
player you could in turn give it to my alt. To stop trading them SOE
could put the NO TRADE label on. But the LORE stopping you putting it
in the shared bank but allowing you to sell it doesn't make sense.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>I believe the word you should be looking for here is "sarcasm"...

Actually it did cross my mind but it also crossed my mind as being very
unfunny if it was (IMHO of course ^_^)
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> > >These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the
new
<snip>
> > more then one? And why can I trade them but not put them in my
shared
> > bank? Doesn't make sense to me.

>You can put LORE items in your shared bank, but only one at a time.

Well I can't put them in my shared bank. And I don't have a duplicate
in the shared banks or any of my alts private banks.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

BombayMix wrote:
> >These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the new
> SOE
> >standard. LORE retains its original meaning. Does EQ1 have
> designations for
> >NO VALUE (meaning cannot sell to a vendor) or NO DESTROY (meaning
you
> >can't destroy it)?
>
> Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
> some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also)
that's
> find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why can't I have
> more then one? And why can I trade them but not put them in my shared
> bank? Doesn't make sense to me.

Ostensibly, the reasons some items are marked lore include:
-It is a unique item in the storyline; you could logically only loot
one of these items.
-It is something that was carried by a unique character (mob) and thus
two could not exist.

The real reasons are that they only want you to have one of them are
varied. Perhaps having two would be unbalancing. Perhaps having two
would let you exploit. Perhaps they don't want people hoarding the
items. Perhaps they just wanted to make sure that you knew you would
only need one drop to complete the quest. Perhaps they screwed up.
Perhaps they wanted to insert more time sinks.

And you can't put lore items in your shared bank? You can't put
no-rent and no-drop stuff in there, but since when is lore excluded?
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the new
SOE
>standard. LORE retains its original meaning. Does EQ1 have
designations for
>NO VALUE (meaning cannot sell to a vendor) or NO DESTROY (meaning you
>can't destroy it)?

Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also) that's
find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why can't I have
more then one? And why can I trade them but not put them in my shared
bank? Doesn't make sense to me.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:18:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1114171791.900357.68980@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the new
<snip>
> more then one? And why can I trade them but not put them in my shared
> bank? Doesn't make sense to me.
>
You can put LORE items in your shared bank, but only one at a time.

Mike W.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 5:35:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1114171791.900357.68980@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the new
> SOE
> >standard. LORE retains its original meaning. Does EQ1 have
> designations for
> >NO VALUE (meaning cannot sell to a vendor) or NO DESTROY (meaning you
> >can't destroy it)?
>
> Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
> some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also) that's
> find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why can't I have
> more then one? And why can I trade them but not put them in my shared
> bank? Doesn't make sense to me.
>

It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 6:39:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
news:1114180006.738011.73260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>> Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
>> > some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also)
>> > that's find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why
>> > can't I have more then one? And why can I trade them but not put
>> > them in my shared bank? Doesn't make sense to me.
>
>> It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....
>
> How? I can't think of any possible exploit or advantage I would gain.
> They are only good for one thing.
>
> I can sell them but not give them to an alt. Doesn't that just
> unbalance it? I haven't tried but I bet I could give it to another
> player you could in turn give it to my alt. To stop trading them SOE
> could put the NO TRADE label on. But the LORE stopping you putting it
> in the shared bank but allowing you to sell it doesn't make sense.
>

You can't see how dual wielding Gnoll ears would be unbalancing?

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Retired
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner, Retired
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 6:40:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in
news:Xns964058052DB8Frichardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4:

> "BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
> news:1114180006.738011.73260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
>>> > some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also)
>>> > that's find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why
>>> > can't I have more then one? And why can I trade them but not put
>>> > them in my shared bank? Doesn't make sense to me.
>>
>>> It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....
>>
>> How? I can't think of any possible exploit or advantage I would gain.
>> They are only good for one thing.
>>
>> I can sell them but not give them to an alt. Doesn't that just
>> unbalance it? I haven't tried but I bet I could give it to another
>> player you could in turn give it to my alt. To stop trading them SOE
>> could put the NO TRADE label on. But the LORE stopping you putting it
>> in the shared bank but allowing you to sell it doesn't make sense.
>>
>
> You can't see how dual wielding Gnoll ears would be unbalancing?
>

I believe the word you should be looking for here is "sarcasm"...

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Retired
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner, Retired
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 7:29:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <O47ae.1856$RX.1562@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>,
Lief <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote:
>
>It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....

It seems like it would be even more balanced than one.

Twice as balanced, in fact.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 7:30:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns964058052DB8Frichardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
> "BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
> news:1114180006.738011.73260@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> Never understood why some items are marked LORE. If it's meant to be
> >> > some unique item (ignoring the fact other players have it also)
> >> > that's find but a gnoll ear? Every gnoll has two of them so why
> >> > can't I have more then one? And why can I trade them but not put
> >> > them in my shared bank? Doesn't make sense to me.
> >
> >> It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....
> >
> > How? I can't think of any possible exploit or advantage I would gain.
> > They are only good for one thing.
> >
> > I can sell them but not give them to an alt. Doesn't that just
> > unbalance it? I haven't tried but I bet I could give it to another
> > player you could in turn give it to my alt. To stop trading them SOE
> > could put the NO TRADE label on. But the LORE stopping you putting it
> > in the shared bank but allowing you to sell it doesn't make sense.
> >
>
> You can't see how dual wielding Gnoll ears would be unbalancing?
>
> --
> On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
> Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons
>
> On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
> Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Retired
> Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner, Retired

My brother used to go roo shooting and one night he came home with a box
full of them. Man, that was some phat lewt!
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 9:16:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Beal wrote:

> And you can't put lore items in your shared bank? You can't put
> no-rent and no-drop stuff in there, but since when is lore excluded?

On EQ, sure you can put lore in shared bank and switch it around. In
fact, it doesn't even count as you holding it if it's in the shared
bank (i.e., you can have one in the shared bank and one in your per-
sonal inventory/bank slots at the same time.) But, IIRC, the poster
mentioned EQ2. No clue if it's different there since I haven't played
that.

Tracey
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 10:07:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 4b58m$n0o$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In article <O47ae.1856$RX.1562@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>,
> Lief <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote:
> >
> >It would be unbalancing to be able to hold two Gnolls ears.....
>
> It seems like it would be even more balanced than one.
>
> Twice as balanced, in fact.

=p
>
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 12:44:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Don Woods" <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote in message
news:7wu0lzjesl.fsf@ca.icynic.com...
> Tonight was my first time since the patch that I've done much beyond
> setting up my bazaar mule, and as I was poking around I discovered a
> change that I don't remember seeing mentioned in the patch message:
> It seems some of the terms used in item descriptions got changed.
> Instead of "NO DROP" it now says "NO TRADE", and instead of "NO RENT"
> it says "TEMPORARY".
>
> Now, I'll grant that the new terms are a bit clearer (to someone who
> wasn't already familiar with the old ones, that is), but it might've
> been nice if they'd mentioned it. And of course, it means all those
> old screenshots on Alla, and all the old discussions in all the forums,
> will now be using terms that newcomers to the game will have no chance
> of understanding.
>
> Anyway, I didn't notice any other terminology changes offhand, but if
> anyone spots some, please let me know, since I'll need to update the
> FAQ glossary (and probably other parts as well).
>
> -- Don.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
> --
> -- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
> -- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
> -- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
> -- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr

I seem to be seeing MAGIC ITEM in some unusual places since the patch.
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 4:38:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com> writes:
> Beal wrote:
>
> > And you can't put lore items in your shared bank? You can't put
> > no-rent and no-drop stuff in there, but since when is lore excluded?
>
> On EQ, sure you can put lore in shared bank and switch it around. In
> fact, it doesn't even count as you holding it if it's in the shared
> bank (i.e., you can have one in the shared bank and one in your per-
> sonal inventory/bank slots at the same time.) But, IIRC, the poster
> mentioned EQ2. No clue if it's different there since I haven't played
> that.

Actually, I was the original poster and I didn't mention which EQ
I was talking about (my bad). But the person who griped about not
being able to put LORE in the shared bank was replying to someone
who had brought up EQ2 (as apparently EQ2 was already using the
terms that I spotted as new in EQLive).

Anyway, I have no idea how it works in EQ2, but in EQLive you CAN
put LORE items in the shared bank. I do it all the time, especially
with my bazaar mule. (If I have a Lore item for sale and acquire
another, I can put the one in the shared bank. I can even then take
it out and store it in another character's bank in order to make room
to hold a third, etc.)

As for why there are Lore items at all, as others have said, there
are many reasons. In some cases it's because having more than one
could be unbalancing. E.g., the Rallic Pack (a weight-reducing bag),
you're only allowed one per character. If you want other WR bags
you have to find other types. In some cases it's to make it harder
to do the same quest repeatedly. E.g., talk to NPC X and get an item,
take item to NPC Y to get the reward. Making the item Lore means you
can't just say the trigger phrase to X over and over and then take 100
copies of the item to NPC Y. Similarly, making a quest item Lore
makes it harder to set up a bazaar mule with a large supply of them,
so people are more likely to go do the quest themselves instead of
buying the pieces. (The pieces could be made No Trade instead, but
that has other ramifications.)

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
-- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 4:41:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Bob Perez" <myfirstname@thecomdomaincalledSHADOWPIKE> writes:
> These are the terms used in EQ2 and they probably represent the new SOE
> standard. LORE retains its original meaning. Does EQ1 have designations for
> NO VALUE (meaning cannot sell to a vendor) or NO DESTROY (meaning you can't
> destroy it)?

Interesting. EQ1 has not previously had any indication of NO VALUE
other than that the merchant refuses to offer you anything for it.
TEMPORARY (formerly NO RENT) items are always unsellable, of course,
as are NO TRADE (i.e. NO DROP) items. I'll have to see if I have
any items that aren't temporary or no-trade, yet cannot be sold, and
see if they've added any designator to that effect in EQ1.

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
-- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 1:32:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com> writes:
> Interesting. EQ1 has not previously had any indication of NO VALUE
> other than that the merchant refuses to offer you anything for it.
> TEMPORARY (formerly NO RENT) items are always unsellable, of course,
> as are NO TRADE (i.e. NO DROP) items. I'll have to see if I have
> any items that aren't temporary or no-trade, yet cannot be sold, and
> see if they've added any designator to that effect in EQ1.

I checked this tonight; no, they didn't add NO TRADE to item descriptions
in EQ1.

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
-- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 8:52:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote:
] I checked this tonight; no, they didn't add NO TRADE to item descriptions
] in EQ1.

I ply EQ1, and some of my items are now no trade. So maybe not all
nodrops became notrade.

Jim.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://dice.drivein-jim.net/ my dice collection Feb 10, 2005
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Apr 19, 2005: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog March 12, 2005
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 10:59:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

D.J. <jolly73@boingcableone.net> writes:
> Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote:
> ] I checked this tonight; no, they didn't add NO TRADE to item descriptions
> ] in EQ1.
>
> I ply EQ1, and some of my items are now no trade. So maybe not all
> nodrops became notrade.

Whoops, sorry, typo. I meant to say they did not add "NO VALUE" as
an indication you can't sell to a merchant. They DID definitely
change "no drop" to be "no trade" in all cases.

Oh, and I've never heard of an item in EQ1 being "no destroy".

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 52 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 51 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
-- Wizbeau, Wizard 36 on E. Marr remove the "hyphen n s"
-- Teviron, Knight 13 on E. Marr
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 7:14:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>As for why there are Lore items at all, as others have said, there
>are many reasons. In some cases it's because having more than one
>could be unbalancing. E.g., the Rallic Pack (a weight-reducing bag),
>you're only allowed one per character. If you want other WR bags
>you have to find other types. In some cases it's to make it harder
>to do the same quest repeatedly. E.g., talk to NPC X and get an item,

>take item to NPC Y to get the reward. Making the item Lore means you
>can't just say the trigger phrase to X over and over and then take 100

>copies of the item to NPC Y. Similarly, making a quest item Lore
>makes it harder to set up a bazaar mule with a large supply of them,
>so people are more likely to go do the quest themselves instead of
>buying the pieces. (The pieces could be made No Trade instead, but
>that has other ramifications.)

I can understand why some items are marked as LORE but my point was
specify aimed at the body parts you need to collect for mastery quests.
For example, I was working the low level skeletons in Forest Ruins for
get the skeleton mastery items. I couldn't for the life of me find
the skeleton core, so I want to the nearest brooker and bought it. So
what has the LORE tag achieved? It didn't force me to complete the
quest. I stopped me from using an item an alt had. You could argue the
latter stops me collecting them and PL up but the fact you can trade
them nullifies that argument.

I am equally baffled as why the language quest items are marked as
LORE. You need multiply of theses to complete the quest, so what's
the point in restricting me to carrying one at a time? It would be much
better if I could collect the complete set and use them all at once,
like collections and the aforementioned mastery items.

I can understand SOE not wanting people to trade them, since again you
could PL up alts, but the NO TRADE label on them achieves that. So,
what does the LORE tag actually achieve? And don't say its
unbalancing the point is why is unbalancing for me to have carry
multiple copies of an item I need multiple copies of!!
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 9:32:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote:
] I can understand why some items are marked as LORE but my point was
] specify aimed at the body parts you need to collect for mastery quests.

The Lore Item thing is very dumb. In the glooming deep mines rat
feet can be stacked. But the rat feet outside qeynos and west
freeport are lore items.

] quest. I stopped me from using an item an alt had. You could argue the
] latter stops me collecting them and PL up but the fact you can trade
] them nullifies that argument.

I have had that exact same difficulty.

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://dice.drivein-jim.net/ my dice collection Feb 10, 2005
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Apr 19, 2005: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog March 12, 2005
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 9:34:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote:
] Whoops, sorry, typo. I meant to say they did not add "NO VALUE" as
] an indication you can't sell to a merchant. They DID definitely
] change "no drop" to be "no trade" in all cases.

Well, the itemsare notrade, but when I tried ( just to see what the
screen would say) to put one in the shared bank, it said no rent
items cannot be put in the shared bank.

] Oh, and I've never heard of an item in EQ1 being "no destroy".

Neither have I. But then I have been playing for only a year.

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://dice.drivein-jim.net/ my dice collection Feb 10, 2005
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Apr 19, 2005: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog March 12, 2005
!