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How Does Data Work?

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Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:40:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Would someone mind explaining how cellular data connections work?

I have a 1X phone with a Verizon account. I also have a USB data cable. With
Windows XP and no other software I was able to create a dialup network
connection to my ISP that worked just fine. The cell phone "modem" reported a
connection of 115K, but that of course was just the cable to the cell phone. The
actual data connection was considerably slower.

Assuming Verizon "broadband" isn't available in my area, is there a faster way
to make a connection? I thought I read that Verizon could be my ISP - is that
true?

I also noticed that "dialer" software is available from someone, but is that
needed when I have Windows XP?

I should also say that I do not have any data add-ons. I assume that data
connections will consume minutes, but that unlimited nights and weekends apply
to data connections, just like voice calls. Correct?

Thank you for answering some very basic questions!

More about : data work

March 11, 2005 4:11:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In my area 1xrtt data runs on a
throughput vs time test at anywhere
from 20 kb/sec to 200 kb/sec.
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:02:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:

> I have a 1X phone with a Verizon account. I also have a USB data cable. With
> Windows XP and no other software I was able to create a dialup network
> connection to my ISP that worked just fine. The cell phone "modem" reported a
> connection of 115K, but that of course was just the cable to the cell phone. The
> actual data connection was considerably slower.
>
> Assuming Verizon "broadband" isn't available in my area, is there a faster way
> to make a connection? I thought I read that Verizon could be my ISP - is that
> true?

Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you dialing to get
connected?

> I should also say that I do not have any data add-ons. I assume that data
> connections will consume minutes, but that unlimited nights and weekends apply
> to data connections, just like voice calls. Correct?

Whoa, be VERY careful with that. Data use will only count against your
minutes if you have the MOU flag on your account. If you don't have it,
and don't ahve any sort of data plan, then you're probably getting
charged on a per-kilobute basis (which can really add up).

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:02:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>
>> I have a 1X phone with a Verizon account. I also have a
>> USB data cable. With Windows XP and no other software I
>> was able to create a dialup network connection to my ISP
>> that worked just fine. The cell phone "modem" reported a
>> connection of 115K, but that of course was just the
>> cable to the cell phone. The actual data connection was
>> considerably slower.
>>
>> Assuming Verizon "broadband" isn't available in my area,
>> is there a faster way to make a connection? I thought I
>> read that Verizon could be my ISP - is that true?
>
> Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you
> dialing to get connected?

You can to circuit switched data to any dial-up number.
If you are going to do packet data (1xRTT) VZW would
*have* to be your "ISP", right?.

-Quick
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:02:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:
> Isaiah Beard wrote:
>> Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 1X phone with a Verizon account. I also have a
>>> USB data cable. With Windows XP and no other software I
>>> was able to create a dialup network connection to my ISP
>>> that worked just fine. The cell phone "modem" reported a
>>> connection of 115K, but that of course was just the
>>> cable to the cell phone. The actual data connection was
>>> considerably slower.
>>>
>>> Assuming Verizon "broadband" isn't available in my area,
>>> is there a faster way to make a connection? I thought I
>>> read that Verizon could be my ISP - is that true?
>>
>> Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you
>> dialing to get connected?
>
> You can to circuit switched data to any dial-up number.
> If you are going to do packet data (1xRTT) VZW would
> *have* to be your "ISP", right?.

Wow... I was trying to figure out how that sentence got
so incredibly mangled... Change "to" to "do" and

"You can to circuit switched data to any dial-up number".

changes from gibberish to simply a poor sentence.

"You can do circuit switched..."

-Quick
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 8:59:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:

>Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you dialing to get
>connected?
>

I think that's true only if I were to use #777. My first test was just to dial
my regular local ISP number. As far as Verizon is concerned, that is no
different than a voice call. The problem is that the speeds are quite slow -
about 14.4kbps.

>
>Whoa, be VERY careful with that. Data use will only count against your
>minutes if you have the MOU flag on your account. If you don't have it,
>and don't ahve any sort of data plan, then you're probably getting
>charged on a per-kilobute basis (which can really add up).

Thanks - checked the web page and it looks like calling my ISP is just billed as
a voice call.

Next step is to see what it takes to get a 1X data plan activated.
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 8:59:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
> Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>
>> Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you
>> dialing to get connected?
>>
>
> I think that's true only if I were to use #777. My first
> test was just to dial my regular local ISP number. As far
> as Verizon is concerned, that is no different than a
> voice call. The problem is that the speeds are quite slow
> - about 14.4kbps.

Technically, no. It is not a voice call.
You are probably not just dialing the number from the
keypad but have the number in your modem configuration.
When you do a connect the phone will dial the number
and tell the network that it is a data call. The network
will (most likely) use a different codec or codec rate,
turn off silence suppression, etc. So at the call setup
level VZW does, and needs to, know that it is a data
call.

How they treat it for billing is a whole different matter.

-Quick
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 9:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
> Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>
>> Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you dialing to get
>> connected?
>>
>
> I think that's true only if I were to use #777. My first test was
> just to dial my regular local ISP number. As far as Verizon is
> concerned, that is no different than a voice call. The problem is
> that the speeds are quite slow - about 14.4kbps.
>
>>
>> Whoa, be VERY careful with that. Data use will only count against
>> your minutes if you have the MOU flag on your account. If you don't
>> have it, and don't ahve any sort of data plan, then you're probably
>> getting charged on a per-kilobute basis (which can really add up).
>
> Thanks - checked the web page and it looks like calling my ISP is
> just billed as a voice call.
>
> Next step is to see what it takes to get a 1X data plan activated.

NO PLAN! NO PLAN! NO PLAN!!!!

It is an OPTION..... to your current plan.... not a plan of it's own!

The NationalAccess is FASTER than a dial-up, and CAN NEVER EVER EVER work,
if you dial a regular phone number....you MUST dial #777...

Look for a section of your bill (either online or on paper) that has a
heading and options like:
Enhanced services:
Call Delivery Voice Mail, IQ Service Package, TXT Msg W Per Msg
Charges, Caller ID, Message Waiting Ind, New Every Two,
Streamline Billing, In Calling Natl 1000 Mins, Natl Enhanced Svc
Access

That option "Natl Enhanced Svc Access" usually says you have MOU available.
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:06:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@HotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote:

>It is an OPTION..... to your current plan.... not a plan of it's own!
>
>The NationalAccess is FASTER than a dial-up, and CAN NEVER EVER EVER work,
>if you dial a regular phone number....you MUST dial #777...
>
>Look for a section of your bill (either online or on paper) that has a
>heading and options like:
>Enhanced services:
>Call Delivery Voice Mail, IQ Service Package, TXT Msg W Per Msg
>Charges, Caller ID, Message Waiting Ind, New Every Two,
>Streamline Billing, In Calling Natl 1000 Mins, Natl Enhanced Svc
>Access
>
>That option "Natl Enhanced Svc Access" usually says you have MOU available.

Thank you!
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:06:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
> "Peter Pan" <Marcs1102NOSPAM@HotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>> It is an OPTION..... to your current plan.... not a plan of it's own!
>>
>> The NationalAccess is FASTER than a dial-up, and CAN NEVER EVER EVER
>> work, if you dial a regular phone number....you MUST dial #777...
>>
>> Look for a section of your bill (either online or on paper) that has
>> a heading and options like:
>> Enhanced services:
>> Call Delivery Voice Mail, IQ Service Package, TXT Msg W Per Msg
>> Charges, Caller ID, Message Waiting Ind, New Every Two,
>> Streamline Billing, In Calling Natl 1000 Mins, Natl Enhanced Svc
>> Access
>>
>> That option "Natl Enhanced Svc Access" usually says you have MOU
>> available.
>
> Thank you!

If that is on your bill, there is one other piece of info you will need..
You have to put in the following for account athorization
10 digit phone number (no spaces or punctauation and domain IE
1234567890@vzw3g.com password = vzw
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 11:21:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:
> Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>
>>Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you
>>>dialing to get connected?
>>>
>>
>>I think that's true only if I were to use #777. My first
>>test was just to dial my regular local ISP number. As far
>>as Verizon is concerned, that is no different than a
>>voice call. The problem is that the speeds are quite slow
>>- about 14.4kbps.
>
> Technically, no. It is not a voice call.
> You are probably not just dialing the number from the
> keypad but have the number in your modem configuration.
> When you do a connect the phone will dial the number
> and tell the network that it is a data call. The network
> will (most likely) use a different codec or codec rate,
> turn off silence suppression, etc. So at the call setup
> level VZW does, and needs to, know that it is a data
> call.

Voice calls and data calls are two different types of calls, handled
differently by your phone.

With data, your phone is really not a "MOdulator/DEModulator". The data
from the cable is sent over the air as digital data to the VZW system,
and no tones are involved. If you use #777 as your dial string, the data
is then just directly dumped onto the Internet. If you use an ISP phone
number, the VZW system dials your ISP over a 56Kbs modem, which converts
the data into tones and sends it over the landline phone system to your
ISP. This ISP connection is limited to the "old" 14.4Kbs QNC system, not
the newer 1xRTT "National Access" system or even newer EV/DO system.

With voice calls, your voice is digitized, and then that data is sent
over the air. This is where codecs and such come in. These codecs are
designed to be lossy to make the data stream smaller but still have the
voice sound "OK" to the human ear. These losses mean that the tones of a
regular modem would get mangled, which is why you cannot use a regular
modem or FAX modem with a digital cellular phone.
March 14, 2005 2:51:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

What about just having Enhanced Svc Access, missing the Natl?

Enhanced Services: 3-Way Calling , Busy Transfer, Call Forwarding, No
Answer
Transfer, Call Waiting, Call Delivery, TXT MSG W Per MSG
Charges, Caller ID, Message Waiting Ind, New Every Two,
Streamline Billing, PIX-FLIX Pay Per MSG, Voice Mail Plus, Natl
Enhanced Svc Access, IN Calling Natl Unlim Pri, TXT MSG-100
MSGS-$2.99, Americas Choice LD

Thanks, Tim

CharlesH wrote:
> Quick wrote:
>
>> Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you
>>>> dialing to get connected?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think that's true only if I were to use #777. My first
>>> test was just to dial my regular local ISP number. As far
>>> as Verizon is concerned, that is no different than a
>>> voice call. The problem is that the speeds are quite slow
>>> - about 14.4kbps.
>>
>>
>> Technically, no. It is not a voice call.
>> You are probably not just dialing the number from the
>> keypad but have the number in your modem configuration.
>> When you do a connect the phone will dial the number
>> and tell the network that it is a data call. The network
>> will (most likely) use a different codec or codec rate,
>> turn off silence suppression, etc. So at the call setup
>> level VZW does, and needs to, know that it is a data
>> call.
>
>
> Voice calls and data calls are two different types of calls, handled
> differently by your phone.
>
> With data, your phone is really not a "MOdulator/DEModulator". The data
> from the cable is sent over the air as digital data to the VZW system,
> and no tones are involved. If you use #777 as your dial string, the data
> is then just directly dumped onto the Internet. If you use an ISP phone
> number, the VZW system dials your ISP over a 56Kbs modem, which converts
> the data into tones and sends it over the landline phone system to your
> ISP. This ISP connection is limited to the "old" 14.4Kbs QNC system, not
> the newer 1xRTT "National Access" system or even newer EV/DO system.
>
> With voice calls, your voice is digitized, and then that data is sent
> over the air. This is where codecs and such come in. These codecs are
> designed to be lossy to make the data stream smaller but still have the
> voice sound "OK" to the human ear. These losses mean that the tones of a
> regular modem would get mangled, which is why you cannot use a regular
> modem or FAX modem with a digital cellular phone.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 5:02:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:29:07 -0800, Quick wrote:

>You can to circuit switched data to any dial-up number.
>If you are going to do packet data (1xRTT) VZW would
>*have* to be your "ISP", right?.

Yes, but a very limited service one --- all it provides is access and name servers; you can use the limited access to connect to other providers' servers if they permit in order to access and send mail, access newsgroups, etc.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 5:02:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

What absolute nonsense. vzw NA is my sole internet access. vzw
provides a connection to the internet, NOT internet services.
However, nothing more is needed. I use free services to access
pop/smtp email services and an usenet. Of course the web, telnet,
ftp, etc are all available protocols also. No ISP is needed.

DB

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:02:35 -0500 (EST), "Philip R. Mann"
<prmlaw@NOSPAMnyc.rr.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:29:07 -0800, Quick wrote:
>
>>You can to circuit switched data to any dial-up number.
>>If you are going to do packet data (1xRTT) VZW would
>>*have* to be your "ISP", right?.
>
>Yes, but a very limited service one --- all it provides is access and name servers; you can use the limited access to connect to other providers' servers if they permit in order to access and send mail, access newsgroups, etc.
>
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 8:08:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Huh?
A bit further down in that list is "Natl Enhanced Svc Access"... the line
before has the word "Natl"...

tjp wrote:
> What about just having Enhanced Svc Access, missing the Natl?
>
> Enhanced Services: 3-Way Calling , Busy Transfer, Call Forwarding, No
> Answer
> Transfer, Call Waiting, Call Delivery, TXT MSG W Per MSG
> Charges, Caller ID, Message Waiting Ind, New Every Two,
> Streamline Billing, PIX-FLIX Pay Per MSG, Voice Mail Plus, Natl
> Enhanced Svc Access, IN Calling Natl Unlim Pri, TXT MSG-100
> MSGS-$2.99, Americas Choice LD
>
> Thanks, Tim
>
> CharlesH wrote:
>> Quick wrote:
>>
>>> Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Technically, Verizon should be your ISP. What are you
>>>>> dialing to get connected?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that's true only if I were to use #777. My first
>>>> test was just to dial my regular local ISP number. As far
>>>> as Verizon is concerned, that is no different than a
>>>> voice call. The problem is that the speeds are quite slow
>>>> - about 14.4kbps.
>>>
>>>
>>> Technically, no. It is not a voice call.
>>> You are probably not just dialing the number from the
>>> keypad but have the number in your modem configuration.
>>> When you do a connect the phone will dial the number
>>> and tell the network that it is a data call. The network
>>> will (most likely) use a different codec or codec rate,
>>> turn off silence suppression, etc. So at the call setup
>>> level VZW does, and needs to, know that it is a data
>>> call.
>>
>>
>> Voice calls and data calls are two different types of calls, handled
>> differently by your phone.
>>
>> With data, your phone is really not a "MOdulator/DEModulator". The
>> data from the cable is sent over the air as digital data to the VZW
>> system, and no tones are involved. If you use #777 as your dial
>> string, the data is then just directly dumped onto the Internet. If
>> you use an ISP phone number, the VZW system dials your ISP over a
>> 56Kbs modem, which converts the data into tones and sends it over
>> the landline phone system to your ISP. This ISP connection is
>> limited to the "old" 14.4Kbs QNC system, not the newer 1xRTT
>> "National Access" system or even newer EV/DO system. With voice calls,
>> your voice is digitized, and then that data is sent
>> over the air. This is where codecs and such come in. These codecs are
>> designed to be lossy to make the data stream smaller but still have
>> the voice sound "OK" to the human ear. These losses mean that the
>> tones of a regular modem would get mangled, which is why you cannot
>> use a regular modem or FAX modem with a digital cellular phone.
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 12:22:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Well, that's why I put "ISP" in quotes. Technically,
the basic function of an ISP is to provide internet
access. The additional services are differentiators.

The only common problem that people encounter
is when they have an ISP (and their email account)
at home and they can't send email through their
SMTP server because it does not allow relay. For
many it's just easier to use their home IPS's dialup
access to do this. Newsgroups... I don't use my
pda phone as a modem and I don't browse
newsgroups on it (too much access to usenet
as it is...).

Although I find it easy, I think setting up indirect
email and alternate usenet access, etc., crosses
that technical knowledge and/or amount of effort
line for many.

-Quick


d b wrote:
> What absolute nonsense. vzw NA is my sole internet
> access. vzw provides a connection to the internet, NOT
> internet services. However, nothing more is needed. I
> use free services to access pop/smtp email services and
> an usenet. Of course the web, telnet, ftp, etc are all
> available protocols also. No ISP is needed.
>
> DB
>
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:02:35 -0500 (EST), "Philip R. Mann"
> <prmlaw@NOSPAMnyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:29:07 -0800, Quick wrote:
>>
>>> You can to circuit switched data to any dial-up number.
>>> If you are going to do packet data (1xRTT) VZW would
>>> *have* to be your "ISP", right?.
>>
>> Yes, but a very limited service one --- all it provides
>> is access and name servers; you can use the limited
>> access to connect to other providers' servers if they
>> permit in order to access and send mail, access
>> newsgroups, etc.
!