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Sophomore jinx? A bit of rambling...

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 12:24:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

I was surprised to see the DVD edition of EQ2 for sale at Fry's for only
$19.99.

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4230544?site=sr:SEARCH...

Amazon.com and GameStop.com have it for $24.99.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/00...
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=645832

These are the DVD edition, mind you. The cheapest I can find WoW, just for
the sake of comparison, is $44.99.

Now I'm no economist or business administration wiz (although I did stay at
a Holiday Inn a couple of times), but I can't imagine SoE chopping the
price like that if everything were all fine and dandy. You've just gotta
think that there are some tense meetings going on in the EQ2 camp.

While this latest Station Exchange abomination was the last straw for me, I
found the biggest problem with EQ2 was the overall generic, I might even
say soulless, approach to the core gameplay elements and mechanics. I felt
that in locking it down the way they did, thereby insuring their complete
control over all aspects of game balance, they effectively dilluted it and
made it much less interesting.

IMO, you can't simply make the attack/heal/buff/de-buff ratios for all
classes effectively equivalent and still maintain any sort of flavor among
the classes. Sure shaman and druids go about healing differently, but that
difference was really only interesting for a while. After that they were
just two healers and it bacame a game of four archetypes (three really,
when you consider that scouts and mages were designed to perform the same
base function) rather than 16 classes.

I also found it interesting that they decided to wait a week after their
announcement of the Station Exchange to conduct a poll to gather some
direct feedback from the customer base. I logged in a couple times within
the past week just to offer my 2c worth on the poll, but it was never
presented to me. It makes me wonder if the set it up to only be offered to
active subscribers, excluding those of us who quit out of disapproval and
thereby further padding their numbers.

All this really made me miss EQLive, so that's where I am, and I'm enjoying
myself again. Perhaps SoE should have just gone with developing a new
completely new MMORPG idea or merely bolstering one they already have (I've
got loads of sympathy for the SWG folk, for sure).

They've done the EQ franchise no justice with the sequel as far as I'm
concerned.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 12:24:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Rumbledor" <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96529CB3D29A8Rumbledorhotmailcom@63.240.76.16...

> Now I'm no economist or business administration wiz (although I did stay
> at
> a Holiday Inn a couple of times), but I can't imagine SoE chopping the
> price like that if everything were all fine and dandy. You've just gotta
> think that there are some tense meetings going on in the EQ2 camp.

Yeah, the latest subscriber figures for MMOGs don't show EQ2 doing well
relative to expectations or the competition. It's a shame because despite
the many problems the game does have, it still provides me and my wife a far
better gaming experience than any of the other competitive products we've
played. What it comes down to in the end, imo, is that SOE is just a bunch
of boneheads who can't do this right. They were lucky to have Brad and
Verant around to create their only real hit, and they've done just about
everything imaginable to hurt the success of the games they've done since
(this SOE Exchange thing is just mind boggling and will go down in history
as one of their dumbest ideas to date).

> I also found it interesting that they decided to wait a week after their
> announcement of the Station Exchange to conduct a poll to gather some
> direct feedback from the customer base.

The poll was stupid and insulting. I voted NO on all three of my accounts
but frankly wasn't surprised to see the announced results. What annoyed me
most was the positioning of the figures. The results actually showed about
an even distribution of players between NO, YES, and DONT CARE. This type of
data really illutrates how easy it is to lie with statistics. From these
results SOE claims that "most players" are either infavor of SOE Exchange or
aren't bothered by it. I look at the same data and see that "most players"
aren't asking for it. I have a feeling that no matter how the numbers came
out, SOE would have taken the position that it supported their plan.
Surprise, surprise.

I'm still enjoying EQ2 quite a bit and have built a very fun and active
community there with friends. This will continue for some time, but this too
shall pass and a time will come when I'm ready to move on to the next mmog.
Right now I've got my eye focused most sharply on Vanguard from Sigil. Both
the credentials and the marketing muscle seem to be there, but note that we
said the same thing about Star Wars Galaxies, and look what happened there.
The difference this time around, I submit, is that you've got two entities
who actually have a CLUE. Brad McQuaid and team and Microsoft. If these guys
fail to give us something good, we should all just uninstall all our games
from our computers and go out and buy consoles and martial arts games.

--
Redbeard, the Relic Keeper
<Veritas>
Dwarven Mystic of 50 Winters & Alchemist
Loyal Citizen of the Antonia Bayle
Current resident of Qeynos Harbor
http://veritasab.invisionzone.com/forums
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?charac...

Descendant of the Elder Winterfury Thunderwolf
<Resolution, Retired>
Barbarian Prophet of The Tribunal
Retired Citizen of Firiona Vie
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 1:02:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns96529CB3D29A8Rumbledorhotmailcom@63.240.76.16:

> I also found it interesting that they decided to wait a week after
> their announcement of the Station Exchange to conduct a poll to gather
> some direct feedback from the customer base. I logged in a couple
> times within the past week just to offer my 2c worth on the poll, but
> it was never presented to me. It makes me wonder if the set it up to
> only be offered to active subscribers, excluding those of us who quit
> out of disapproval and thereby further padding their numbers.

I got the poll, even though I did cancel my account, it has yet to expire,
a few more days to go yet. It was on the order of a week or so ago.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Retired
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner, Retired
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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 10:24:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

>> Now I'm no economist or business administration wiz (although I did
stay
>> at
>> a Holiday Inn a couple of times), but I can't imagine SoE chopping
the
>> price like that if everything were all fine and dandy. You've just
gotta
>> think that there are some tense meetings going on in the EQ2 camp.

>Yeah, the latest subscriber figures for MMOGs don't show EQ2 doing
well
>relative to expectations or the competition. It's a shame because
despite
>the many problems the game does have, it still provides me and my wife
a far
>better gaming experience than any of the other competitive products
we've
>played. What it comes down to in the end, imo, is that SOE is just a
bunch
>of boneheads who can't do this right. They were lucky to have Brad and

>Verant around to create their only real hit, and they've done just
about
>everything imaginable to hurt the success of the games they've done
since
>(this SOE Exchange thing is just mind boggling and will go down in
history
>as one of their dumbest ideas to date).

I think the biggest mistake SOE made was making it impossible to solo
effectively once you hit the 20s. You can scythe through pretty much
everything on IoR, had to be a bit more cautious in Qeynos and Antonica
but once you hit 20 and went to Thundering Stepps, good god there was
hardly anything you could kill. Once you found a solo mob it was
invariable one creature surrounded by a bunch of agro heroics!

Why SOE thought once you hit 20 you had to group (and more so needed a
full group of the right mix) is beyond me but that decision cost them
dear.

SOE also got themselves a bad rep with constant and often unnecessary
changes to EQ, over hyped and poorly implemented games (SWG) and "our
way or the highway attitude" to customer complaints. Problem now is the
highway is full of other MMOGs all willing to cater for the customers
needs. Which is why WOW has done so well. Blizzard listened to that the
market wanted and give them a mmog to fit. While NCSoft have spotted
the potential for a simplified non fantasy mmog (COH) and serious PvP
ones (Guild Wars & Linage)

To give SOE credit they are starting to change EQ2 for the better to
address all the customer complaints and wishes but its too late now.
Most people got so pissed off they went elsewhere. Those customers have
gone for good and they aren't coming back.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 2:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Bob Perez wrote:
> Right now I've got my eye focused most sharply on Vanguard from Sigil. Both
> the credentials and the marketing muscle seem to be there, but note that we
> said the same thing about Star Wars Galaxies, and look what happened there.
> The difference this time around, I submit, is that you've got two entities
> who actually have a CLUE. Brad McQuaid and team and Microsoft. If these guys
> fail to give us something good, we should all just uninstall all our games
> from our computers and go out and buy consoles and martial arts games.

Amen.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 6:04:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"BombayMix" <bombaymix@altavista.co.uk> wrote in
news:1115817857.932034.118810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>>> Now I'm no economist or business administration wiz (although I did
>>> stay at a Holiday Inn a couple of times), but I can't imagine SoE
>>> chopping the price like that if everything were all fine and dandy.
>>> You've just gotta think that there are some tense meetings going on
>>> in the EQ2 camp.
>
>>Yeah, the latest subscriber figures for MMOGs don't show EQ2 doing well
>>relative to expectations or the competition. It's a shame because
>>despite the many problems the game does have, it still provides me and
>>my wife a far better gaming experience than any of the other
>>competitive products we've played. What it comes down to in the end,
>>imo, is that SOE is just a bunch of boneheads who can't do this right.
>>They were lucky to have Brad and
>
>>Verant around to create their only real hit, and they've done just
>>about everything imaginable to hurt the success of the games they've
>>done since (this SOE Exchange thing is just mind boggling and will go
>>down in history as one of their dumbest ideas to date).
>
> I think the biggest mistake SOE made was making it impossible to solo
> effectively once you hit the 20s. You can scythe through pretty much
> everything on IoR, had to be a bit more cautious in Qeynos and Antonica
> but once you hit 20 and went to Thundering Stepps, good god there was
> hardly anything you could kill. Once you found a solo mob it was
> invariable one creature surrounded by a bunch of agro heroics!

Well, given that I soloed quite effectively up to 30 with some grouping
in there as well, I do believe you are mistaken on your assessment there.
I spent most of my 20s in Thundering Steppes, soloing, and I started
there prior to the changes to make soloing more viable. Since then, SoE
added a huge number of solo mobs, and converted a lot of group mobs to
solo.

>
> Why SOE thought once you hit 20 you had to group (and more so needed a
> full group of the right mix) is beyond me but that decision cost them
> dear.

They didn't think that, and you don't.

>
> SOE also got themselves a bad rep with constant and often unnecessary
> changes to EQ, over hyped and poorly implemented games (SWG) and "our
> way or the highway attitude" to customer complaints. Problem now is the
> highway is full of other MMOGs all willing to cater for the customers
> needs. Which is why WOW has done so well. Blizzard listened to that the
> market wanted and give them a mmog to fit. While NCSoft have spotted
> the potential for a simplified non fantasy mmog (COH) and serious PvP
> ones (Guild Wars & Linage)
>
> To give SOE credit they are starting to change EQ2 for the better to
> address all the customer complaints and wishes but its too late now.
> Most people got so pissed off they went elsewhere. Those customers have
> gone for good and they aren't coming back.
>

The one that got me was the Exchange server.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 28 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Retired
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner, Retired
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 16, 2005 1:12:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<james@doesntlikespam.org> wrote:
> Bob Perez wrote:
> > Right now I've got my eye focused most sharply on Vanguard from Sigil. Both
> > the credentials and the marketing muscle seem to be there, but note that we
> > said the same thing about Star Wars Galaxies, and look what happened there.
> > The difference this time around, I submit, is that you've got two entities
> > who actually have a CLUE. Brad McQuaid and team and Microsoft. If these guys
> > fail to give us something good, we should all just uninstall all our games
> > from our computers and go out and buy consoles and martial arts games.
>
> Amen.

Oh yes, from the team that gave us staring at a spellbook for the vast
majority of our playing time and the blockbuster hit Asheron's Call...
May 17, 2005 12:52:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrnd8h72o.h1m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> <james@doesntlikespam.org> wrote:
> > Bob Perez wrote:
> > > Right now I've got my eye focused most sharply on Vanguard from Sigil. Both
> > > the credentials and the marketing muscle seem to be there, but note that we
> > > said the same thing about Star Wars Galaxies, and look what happened there.
> > > The difference this time around, I submit, is that you've got two entities
> > > who actually have a CLUE. Brad McQuaid and team and Microsoft. If these guys
> > > fail to give us something good, we should all just uninstall all our games
> > > from our computers and go out and buy consoles and martial arts games.
> >
> > Amen.
>
> Oh yes, from the team that gave us staring at a spellbook for the vast
> majority of our playing time and the blockbuster hit Asheron's Call...
>

I liked Asheron's Call. It was actually a dynamic world. Things changed
from month to month. Turbine was a very player friendly group. It really
felt like they actually cared. I'd consider anything they released.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 17, 2005 12:52:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnd8h72o.h1m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> > <james@doesntlikespam.org> wrote:
> > > Bob Perez wrote:
> > > > Right now I've got my eye focused most sharply on Vanguard from Sigil. Both
> > > > the credentials and the marketing muscle seem to be there, but note that we
> > > > said the same thing about Star Wars Galaxies, and look what happened there.
> > > > The difference this time around, I submit, is that you've got two entities
> > > > who actually have a CLUE. Brad McQuaid and team and Microsoft. If these guys
> > > > fail to give us something good, we should all just uninstall all our games
> > > > from our computers and go out and buy consoles and martial arts games.
> > >
> > > Amen.
> >
> > Oh yes, from the team that gave us staring at a spellbook for the vast
> > majority of our playing time and the blockbuster hit Asheron's Call...
> >
>
> I liked Asheron's Call. It was actually a dynamic world. Things changed
> from month to month. Turbine was a very player friendly group. It really
> felt like they actually cared. I'd consider anything they released.

Yeah, except you're talking about the wrong piece of the corporations
responsible for Asheron's Call. =P
!