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Games on Win7 and/or 64-bit

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October 20, 2009 2:35:34 AM

I'm building a new system, and I'm trying to decide between familiar XP and Windows 7. Because I'm on XP right now, I know my games run on it. As far as Windows 7 goes, I have no idea how well my games will work. I've listed the main games I play/intend to play below. I'm also trying to decide between 32 and 64-bit. I've heard people have issues on 64-bit, but I'm not entirely sure if the problems were coming from somewhere else.

My original plan was to grab Windows 7 Home Premium off of the Microsoft Store, since here: Home Premium it looks like it comes with 32 and 64. If 64 doesn't work out well for games, I imagine that I could do a clean wipe.

I'm quite tired, but hopefully it makes sense. To sum things up:
Am I going to be able to play the games below on Windows 7? If not, should I stick with XP?
Are there still problems with 64-bit OS and games?
Is grabbing Win7 Home Premium here a good idea, since it comes with 32 and 64-bit?

Thanks.

Games:
CoD4: Modern Warfare
WoW
Aion
Cod4: Modern Warfare 2
Cod: WaW
Guild Wars

System:

Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B

Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

Logitech Deluxe 250 Black USB Wired Standard Keyboard

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750

ASUS P7P55D EVO LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard

EDIT: (Lol, forgot cooler: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler - Retail ).

More about : games win7 bit

October 20, 2009 2:44:37 AM

All of those games work or will work fine, in Windows 7 64 bit :) 

a b $ Windows 7
October 20, 2009 7:51:51 AM

There's no reason why any of the games listed shouldn't work, being quite new. I've tested some fairly old titles on the x64 Release Candidate and everything seems to work fine.

Home Premium x64 is the ideal choice for a home user/gamer. I would recommend that you install x64; the time is right to make the switch and it will save you from having to migrate your apps yet again if you want to move away from 32bit in the future.
Related resources
a b $ Windows 7
October 20, 2009 8:34:22 AM

what GPU?
October 20, 2009 9:40:59 AM

+1 for Herr_Koos

I'm on 64 bit Vista and no problems... only bit of solvable problems with games relying on Creative's X-fi technology since from Vista onwards, the hardware acceleration on sound was disabled...

But as far as I know, the above mentioned games, have their own sound engines, so they should be safe...
a b $ Windows 7
October 20, 2009 3:34:31 PM

from what i can tell the big difference between 32 bit and 64 bit is moslty memory allocation

on 32 bit its 3 go tops while on 64 its 8 go, witch will have some impact on speed of computer.

So if you got money (and system that supports lots of memory) might be better with 64 bit
a b $ Windows 7
October 20, 2009 4:04:59 PM

i'm running 64bit vista and have had no trouble with software/games yet, will be transferring to win 7 soon.
October 20, 2009 6:26:02 PM

Only game I know so far with problems with vista 64 is City of Heroes, not sure if WIN 64 will have that problem.
October 20, 2009 6:51:52 PM

I'm not entirely sure if it's still in effect, but PunkBuster failed to make a useful version of their client for years (should have had one created back in 2005 during the Vista beta) and it required a few compatibility fixes to stop it from kicking you out of CoD4 servers. This was in effect over the summer at least, so I'm pretty sure they've still failed to step up to the plate and prove they're worth something.
October 20, 2009 8:01:01 PM

COD 4 and COD 5 work great for me on Win 7 x64.
In fact, I have yet to encounter problems with any games/programs on Win7.

Remember, in the off chance that some incompatibilities do arise, Win7 (the pricier editions only) have XP mode which will allow you to run programs/games designed for XP x32.
a b $ Windows 7
October 20, 2009 8:09:50 PM

Kabobi said:
Remember, in the off chance that some incompatibilities do arise, Win7 (the pricier editions only) have XP mode which will allow you to run programs/games designed for XP x32.



Please understand that XP Mode is a Virtualized environment - Hardware acceleration is not provided for, and it requires a VM-enabled Bios & CPU. Therefore (contrary to popular belief) it is not a panacea for gamers, but rather intended for backwards compatibility with proprietary apps on a small business level.
October 20, 2009 9:06:15 PM

You have 4GiB of RAM, 32bit simply isnt an option.

That said ive been using x64 Windows since the release of Windows XP x64, and have never had any issues.

Besides drivers for my Sony Ericsson K800i Mobile phone. Which in all and total honesty is the only issue ive ever had.

Yes you need to run old 16bit applications in an emulator. Not ideal if you are a retro gamer, Which i confess i am a bit myself, but there are ways round this. Something open source re-makes of your favourtie classics such as OpenTTD, or through emulators such as DOSBoX these old games will run fine :) .

As for the games you mentioned, although i cannot quote any specific benchmarks, but due to the ammount of accessible RAM. those games may even perform "better" under an x64 environment
October 21, 2009 2:04:31 AM

Scotteq said:
Please understand that XP Mode is a Virtualized environment - Hardware acceleration is not provided for, and it requires a VM-enabled Bios & CPU. Therefore (contrary to popular belief) it is not a panacea for gamers, but rather intended for backwards compatibility with proprietary apps on a small business level.


Yep MS virtual PC emulates a 16MB graphics card (with add on pack) and you can't run any 3D games on it.

Best solution

October 21, 2009 4:00:54 AM
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I've been running Windows XP Pro x64 for years now, it was based on Server 2003 code rather then the original XP Pro code so it was significantly more stable.

Having said that, I would go x64 bit whenever you can, it really does make a difference when your running multiple applications.

Now for some technical details that I bet few here know about. The limit on a 32 bit windows is 3.5 GB not 4. This is because Win-32 use's the upper 512MB of memory space for mapping system devices and other things that need their own memory reference but aren't actually memory. This includes AGP memory, BIOS, IO ports, ect.

Another limit is that memory must be divided into two sections, Kernel memory and application memory. The divider is the last bit of the 32 bit memory reference, meaning only 31 bits is available to point to an applications own memory. A 32-bit system can only map 2GB of virtual address space to a single application. Regardless of how much memory is present or available in the system an application only has 2GB to work with. For games with many resources, or large development app's this is simply too small and can lead to stability problems once the app pass's 1.8 GB or so. Trying to allocate more memory then address space is available will cause an out of memory or system resource error, many app's can't handle that and instability ensue's. Also library's loaded and/or external code executed by the app take up their own portions of that 2GB, and if the code / library wants to allocate more space for whatever reason it must fit inside that 2GB window.

A 64 bit kernel would have a much large virtual address space, this allows more applications to load and the operating system itself to address and manage more t hen 3.5 GB of space. But 32 bit applications running on a 64 bit OS would still have the 2GB limit. The only way around this is PAE, which would allow a 32 bit application who is PAE compatible to use all 32 bits and get a full 4 GB of address space. Its not perfect and has its own down side, but its a mid-term fix for many developers that don't want to rewrite their entire code base just yet.

In short, the advantage of 64 bit hasn't really hit everyone yet, but its coming. As applications become more memory intensive and / or require more address space, their will be a need for a x64 bit OS. The forefront of this is the application developer community (IDE's can take up large amounts of address space for all the library's and tools) and the games they create (games are requiring more short term resources and don't want to swap resources in / out from the HDD).

The one killer downside to x64 apps are 32 bit games / applications written during the Windows 98 day's. Many of these relied on a few 16 bit DLL's or other code to do a few tasks. A x64 OS simply won't be able to execute that code, and since those apps are Win 32 native they typically won't run in any emulated environment. The VM method can ~sometimes~ allow them to execute, but for the early DirectX 6 D3D games its almost always a no-go. Look at Mechwarrior II (PC version) and III for a good example of how that works.
October 22, 2009 4:51:20 PM

I'm in a similar situation, but already purchased windows 7 home premium, and have a few of the answers you seek.

If you have a multicore processor, epsecially tri or quad core, only windows 7 will correctly identify them. Yes, they can be run on earlier models of windows like vista, and perhaps xp. But just because it boots up doesn't mean it's doing it that well.

From everything I heard, even vista has major problems with multi-core processors.

So considering I got an i7 920 with 4 cores and 8 threads, Vista would not cut it. Yes vista runs it, but it'll run better/faster/less glitches on Windows 7.

As for xp compatibility: depends

They have a thing called xp mode, but only a few processors will work with it, and also I've read that it's basically useless. Yeah it'll run some stuff, they claim all. But lots of people are having big issues with it. Because to use windows xp software in windows 7 it eats resources like the hamburgler.

Running xp mode is one of the most strenuous things your processor can do. Thus you might run a game fine in xp, but in windows 7 you might get 20 fps less or something to that effect.

Additionally I've seen big problems with it saying you can't use anything that needs more than 12mb vram. So someone who tried to play gta III on windows 7, couldn't.

So I'm not sure how old games are going to play. Most likely you'll need a patch, and patches will only come from games a couple years old or newer.

I did want it, but it seems like it's going to be more of a problem than a 'feature'. Besides most things one uses, will have downloads ready making it compatible for windows 7.

If you want to still run xp games, the best way will probably be to keep xp on some computer. Or dual boot it. Xp on one drive, windows 7 on the other. Then use bios to set which hard drive to boot off of, and there you go, you can have xp and windows 7. Want the other one to boot? restart, go into bios again and change the hard drive to the other one, and there you go.

As for 32 versus 64. 64. I highly suggest it. Now I bought an fx53 64 bit processor in 2004, and still have used the 64 bit-ness of it.

But that's only because of the operating system.

Yes there were big problems with xp64 and compatibility and running stuff back in 2004-2005, but that stuff as I've read, is fine now. That's yesterday's news.

Meanwhile, if you have 32 bit, you cannot have more than 4 gb in your system. Oh you can, but it won't be usable. So if you have 4gb and might be upgrading, or are thinking about getting a new computer a year or two from now, then there is no way in hell you'll be doing so without at least 4gb. Of course like said above 4gb is the theoretical limit, not the actual limit in everyday use as said above.

Hell I'm going to buy 6gb of ddr3 1600mhz for around 80-90 bucks. So 4gb isn't as big or outlandish as it used to be. You can probably get 6gb of ddr3 1066mhz for about $60-70. 1-2 years from now, forget it. You'll get 8gb for those prices, and most people will be wanting 16gb. So yeah, 64 bit is the way to go.

lol you got a core i5, yeah, 64 bit. Should of looked at that sooner.

Also windows 7 home premium doesn't have xpm, only professional or ultimate.

Also that's another thing that peeves me. Before I figured out xpm was useless I was kicking myself about buying home premium and not professional.

I went to look at how much it would cost to upgrade from windows 7 home premium to windows 7 professional, because I remember reading that you could buy any version and upgrade it via download.

You might as well buy a whole other os box. Because it's quite insane that I paid 99 for oem windows 7, could of got windows 7 pro for 20 bucks more. BUT using microsoft's supposedly awesome feature of upgrading your windows 7 you notice you are pretty much paying for an entire new copy.

Seriously that's wrong. It's 20 bucks more when you buy it new, but if you screw up and have to download it, it'll cost you 90 bucks more.

That's a serious pr mess up waiting on it's hand for microsoft I suspect. I think we're going to be hearing a lot of complaints about that soon.
October 22, 2009 5:03:16 PM

Also someone said 64 bit can handle 8gb of ram.

No that's incorrect.

It can handle 16xb of ram. That's 16.8 million terabytes, or 16,800 million gb. Or 16,800,000 million megabytes.

Which is more than the leap between Apple II (16-48k ram) and now 4gb ddr3.

Of course I've also read 128 bit won't be too far away. I've read windows 8 or 9 will incorporate it. (which if you remember we had Windows me, 2000, and xp all in a couple of years isn't too far away).

I bought windows 7, but I bet windows 8 is released within 2 years. It may have 128-bit compatibility, or perhaps windows 9 which they are already working on.

But in all reality, the 64 bit limit won't be reached until probably the 2030's-2050's.
October 22, 2009 5:32:55 PM

jmc8888 said:
I bet windows 8 is released within 2 years.
I doubt that. Vista's run was almost 3 years and it was a red-headed stepchild that Microsoft was eager to replace with W7 as quickly as practicality allowed. W7 is like the next XP, which was the latest and greatest for over 6 years. I'd be willing to bet W7 will be the shiznit until at least 2014.
October 22, 2009 9:00:29 PM

Well you never know, but, remember we had
win98
winme
win2000
winxp

All in a span between approx. 1998 and 2001

Vista was supposed to come out years earlier. But the problems that were there and (they never finished) led to a huge delay. They dropped a bunch of features, and still it was that late.

Basically win7

This wasn't by design, but by screwup, and low competition.

MS doesn't haven't the same luxury now, nor do they want to repeat their screwups of the previous few years.

They are already working on the next two windows versions, and I don't think they are targeting 2014 and 2019 for release.

You may be right that Win7 becomes the new xp, the one that most people use for 5-8 years. However that doesn't mean it won't have other, newer os products out.

It's also a bit early to call win7 the next xp, although it is looking like that. It may though be win8. With the economy in a depression and getting worse day by day (which is the truth), win 7 might be a great product, but few people might upgrade because they don't want to spend the money on it and/or a new computer.

Especially when there is a good chance that within a year any computer part will be 2-5x more expensive. Want that 500 dollar vid card, there is a real possibility that same card model sells for 2,500 dollars before say the ati 6870 comes out.

It is very difficult to tell what will happen, but ms doesn't like an old os that people have already bought 3-5 years ago to be their cash cow. Every 2-3 years is most likely their goal. Sometimes they'll meet it, sometimes they won't. But with added pressure from Apple and Google, I suspect that competition will be the main reason they need a new 'upgraded' OS around 2011-2012. So it's their goal, it's been their past procedure, and they'll be pressured to do it, so I think it's much more likely to happen.

That said, no one should worry, win 7 seems like it'll be a fine product, and no one will die from having to keep win 7 when win 8 is out.

Win 9 on the other hand, I hear is a big shift. But that is too far in the future to worry about.
October 22, 2009 9:03:35 PM

(basically win 7)

forgot to finish the sentence

basically win 7 is what vista was supposed to be. Although at the same time, it still may not have all the groundbreaking features vista has. In fact win 8 might really be what vista was supposed to be. Win 9, another big break. Like when xp broke from dos used in 95,98, 2000. ME if I can remember correctly was a brand new one too, but sucked. So xp was their 2nd try at a brand new shell or whatever.

Anyways either way, with support up to 256 cores, win 7 should have some legs for awhile.
October 22, 2009 9:10:47 PM

arrgh 'vista has', I meant vista was supposed to have
October 22, 2009 9:17:35 PM

windows 7 will be ok. i run my games on win7 and it works fine not like vista...
BF2,BF2142,GRAW2,R6vegas2,Far Cry 2,Crysis warhead...
im no tsure about x64 yet...
You wont get the same fps as u get on windows xp but they work very good.you can see some tests on my post comparing the 3 OS's :hello: 
October 23, 2009 12:01:49 AM

jmc8888 said:

Especially when there is a good chance that within a year any computer part will be 2-5x more expensive. Want that 500 dollar vid card, there is a real possibility that same card model sells for 2,500 dollars before say the ati 6870 comes out.
This sounds scary; I've haven't heard any of talk like this. What are your predictions based on?
October 23, 2009 4:03:36 AM

Well it's simple, if the dollar devalues against the say the japanese yen, then all products from japan will become more expensive.

The thing you have to remember is that our current 'prices' from say Japan is based off the exchange rate (obviously lol but we never think about it).

Now usually it's between 90-100 yen per dollar. Recently it's down to about 80. If the same thing happens again, like many people have said is most likely, then we could see our dollar devalue against others such as the pound, euro, yen, etc so that say the yen is 20 to 1. Well if you are charging 100 dollars for a product at 90 yen to the dollar, it would be 4.5x more expensive if the exchange rate is 20:1. Thus a 400 dollar vid card can become a 2000 dollar or higher vid card.

This is a conservative estimate, under the assumption we don't have extreme hyperinflation, and just really, really aggressive inflation that approaches the definition of hyperinflation, but isn't like zimbabwe or yugoslavia or weimar germany style hyper-inflation, which is also a possibility.

Considering we haven't changed anything revolving around the problem that caused last years crash, and if you realize that some companies, even those we bailed out, are even more leveraged (and more vulnerable) now than before, then you can see we could be right back where we were, especially with quadruple the unemployment. Actual unemployment in the U.S. is 20-25 percent. Not 10. 10 is the number receiving benefits. Not those that are not. We don't count them, we consider them 'not looking' which is a lie.

You have to understand leverage. When they say they (banks) were leveraged 10x, that means, if you lose 1 percent on your investment, you actually lost 10 percent because you were leveraged 10x. Well our companies are anywhere from 30-100x leverage. In fact I think goldman sachs is around 200-300 leverage with derivatives. Meaning, if someone was even a more industry average of 40x leverage, a 2.5 percent drop in their investment would wipe out 100 percent of the companies equity. 100 percent!!!!

How much did we lose last year? Exactly. We have a lot of bankrupt companies still in existence because they are keeping 'off book', or altering the value 'on book' of certain assets and debts.

There's also about 3-7 million homes being kept off the market, once those start hitting the market, housing prices not only must go down, they must go down dramatically. Which of course means the actual equity of banks then would be even still lower.

As you can tell now, when we're talking about quadrillions and 40x leverage, and 20-25 percent unemployment, and 3-7 million homes that are empty but not on the market, it doesn't take much to bring down the whole system.

All we did was make the payments with the 700 billion dollars to banks and insurance companies to keep the casino going, because if we didn't, the whole house of cards was going to go down.

From that banks started loaning again to each other (LIBOR overnight), but only because the USA is backing alot of that debt if it goes bad. Did you know the U.S. federal gov't is backing every home mortgage made this year? Did you know we also account for 90+ percent of all home mortgages made this year . We are also responsible for all the losses at fannie mae, freddie mac...which could be about 5-10 trillion dollars of nothing that we will probably have to pay out in the next couple of years there too. Finally we've turned hud which was used to make about 3 percent of loans usually to very low income people in poor neighborhoods to buy low priced homes. Well since fannie and freddie are screwed, we opened up hud. Now hud does 25 percent or more of our mortgages, as it became the new fannie mae and freddie mac, and look how bad they are currently doing. (they recently announced they were going to be below 2 percent cash reserves soon)

Had we not stepped in during the crash, jp morgan would of been gone in days, followed by citi bank, goldman sachs, wells, and that would of happened within a few days if they hadn't acted. But they shouldn't, because now our currency is toast.

We're paying for these dumb-holes casino tab, and destroying our currency in the process.

So for microsoft, if stuff imported from japan and the other asian countries become really expensive, the amount of new computers sold will shrink drastically.

Because the cheap emachine type computers that go for $300-500 would be $2000 dollars, and these can't even play games that are 3 years old decently.

If you want say a i7 920 setup, and it currently costs 1100-2k for a normal setup, it could be 5-10k next year. So microsoft would have to rely on people upgrading via their current computer, which of course is a smaller market than flogging windows 7 to the likes of dell, hp, and all the other computer manufacturers. Remember this is just if we go down to 20:1 yen. It could get alot worse than that.

People would still buy new computers, but I bet they'd sell 70 percent less than say 2007 or 2008 if the yen were 20:1. (and I'm being a bit simplistic, it's really all the asian countries, and we're sinking against all of them)

Sources, well plenty, i've known about and discussed at bars with real estate agents about the coming crash 5 years ago. So this isn't something that surprised me. I was telling people all around me that things were about to crash. They didn't believe me then, but it was as clear as day, and it's even clearer today about *tomorrow*, then it was then about that time period. Remember if you're involved, it can't be happening. At least that's the general human mindset.

The problem isn't real estate, it's the derivatives that funded it, and that got everyone in debt, raised prices, etc, etc. I literally could go on for about 100 pages. Basically though, all the banks are insolvent in the USA (and lots of other countries), and they are only currently operating because they're now legally allowed to lie about their finances.

They can say their homes on the books actually worth 100 million to be marked at 2 billion say. So when they say they have 10 percent equity, you have to realize it's more like -30 percent, and that's just from the mortgage backed securities, let alone the coming commerical mortgage backed securities, which are all the loans for business rentals, which are defaulting because of the bad economy.

Then you have to realize the derivatives game dwarfs all. What if I told you that jp morgan, wells fargo, citigroup, bank of america, and goldman sachs all had on average 30-40 trillion dollars in derivatives? (these are companies that 18 months ago at around their peak were worth 30-100 billion. These companies worth 30-100 billion THEN, not now, THEN, had 30-40 trillion dollars in derivatives bets.

All of which may be completely worthless, which means all of these companies might be literally 30-40 trillion in the hole. Especially if someone that owes them x amount of derivatives, goes under and cannot pay, which means those that were supposed to receive that money are now out x amount and can't pay on their derivatives, and the cycle continues. These are all worthless bets, except if they go bad, everything crashes. There's 1.4 quadrillion (or more) in derivatives. That's more money than exists in the entire world.

I voted for Obama, and am a lifelong democrat, but he's a fool for letting the bankers determine his response to the crisis, and it's going to cost him and us a whole lot. But of course it doesn't matter, any of our past 5-10 presidents would of done the same thing. This is all about 40 years in the making. You can thank nixon, ford, carter, reagan, bush I, clinton, bush II *don't forget that scumbag who started tarp*, and now obama. They all drank the kool-aid coming from wall street. They are ALL WRONG. History will show that, but first we have to live it.

If every bank had to realize their losses that happened last year, they'd all be bankrupt, or would be so destabilized by all the wrath from it, their good investments would be bad, and they'd be bankrupt even if they'd never traded derivatives.

So keep the derivatives game going, and through this you are monetizing debt, which then weakens the dollar like I described above. Or you let the derivatives crash, (and they are going to anyways) and everything collapses. Or everything as we know it does. Of course we aren't going back to cave men, but I wouldn't be surprised if 90 percent of business is gone by the end of this thing, or by the time we wake up and get out of it.

If you haven't noticed, we're going the bailout and monetization route which means inflation. But the crazy thing is, everything is currently crashing. So you really have deflation AND inflation at the same time. Deflation in the physical (real) economy. Inflation in MONEY and things valued in money - stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.

There's too much to write about what's going on. But I like to read a bunch of different stuff. So the guy that called this crisis, and actually developed his triple curve in 1996 (which perfectly describes in reality what we are currently seeing), was lyndon larouche. larouchepac.com He's a democrat, but you wouldn't know it with how much he's going after obama, and with good reason. So you have the left perspective here.

Also, there are economists who aren't drinking the kool-aid that are non-partisan, but if I had to guess they lean the other way, republicans before all this crap. So I suggest going to http://www.chrismartenson.com/

Take the crash course which is a 20 something part video you watch in 5-20 minutes segments. It's free. You can donate and such, but it's free. It'll be the most informative thing you'll ever watch.

Then go to those sites daily or so and read the updates.

So all together if you read those two sites, you'll get what some people on the left are thinking, and some people on the right-center are thinking.

Then realize that even though they are on different political leanings, both are saying the same thing basically.

As I've described it before, it's like I'm watching Shakespeare performed in two different languages.

That's what should scare you. It doesn't matter if it's a dem or a repub, those in the know on both sides know we're screwed. Those two sites will show you how and why.

Both from a historical and functional perspective as well as plans to get us out (hbpa of 2007 and the larouche 4 Power (US, russia, china, india plan) - larouche

and the market perspective - chris martenson

Also the martenson site every day lists a number of news articles from across the business spectrum, so you are reading lots of influential people's thoughts. I'm talking about some people that are even on CNBC and stuff.

Don't believe the corporate news media, they aren't telling you the truth. They say things are getting better, when everything is not only collapsing still, but worse than it was at the market trough, and is generally accelerating.

So yeah, it's my viewpoint if you want something from overseas, better hurry up and buy it before you can't afford it. (which is also the end game from outsourcing)

You outsource your work, your individual company profits, your competitors copy it, they make profits, lots of people in the sector are unemployed and usually get inferior jobs to work at the rest of their lives. Now multiply that over 40 years, and case by case, we did it to ourselves. We outsourced everything, and then because wages didn't keep up, we all went into debt. Now with all the debt crashing around us, and the bailouts of derivatives mistakes, our currency will lower, making all imports more expensive.

Soon that cheap chinese good you bought and know is crap, will be something you can't afford. Nice.

Considering how much we import, everything is just about to go up in price.

Also if you want to look at something look at the DIX, or dollar index. Watch that. That will let you know how much we've actually lost. People don't realize that if you subtract the inflation away from our stock market, we're still basically at 6-7k, just with our new more worthless dollar, 10k is the new 6-7k. But since it just started the ramifications aren't well known and people actually feel RELIEVED. But again the move compared to where it could go, is small indeed.

Remember if the dollar devalues, stocks go up because they are worth a certain amount, so if the dollar is worth less, they are worth more. So if we have dollar devaluation, we literally could see dow 100k but we're poorer than if it was dow 2k.

Or things could just collapse, or most likely, our dollar devalues, and everything skyrockets, and then slowly we're deflated as no one can afford to buy anything and eventually everyone loses.

But I like to look at the bright side, all those pri-madonna athletes that are whimps compared to 20-40 years ago or so, will actually have to play hard, because their multi-million dollar contracts are worth crap. So we'll have great sports to watch, if we can afford the electric bill. (remember oil is imported - as well as everything that contains plastic -which is just about everything around you - shampoo, carpet, chairs, etc, etc)

So yeah, sorry for the long post, but it's impossible to explain something so complex in less words, and I've only covered a small portion of the problem.

But I'm all for ending the fed, going back to the true american credit system (which is what the constitution says we must have) that Alexander Hamilton devised. Implementing HBPA of 2007, new bretton woods, four powers agreement, and a REAL space program. We do that, we can pull out of this. We do not, we're screwed. Individually, as each of us in our own boat, and somehow, some of us will be lucky, but 99 percent of us, are screwed if we don't right the ship soon.

Finally remember this, the American Revolution wasn't just about taxes without representation, it was about monetarism.

We didn't want our lives controlled by money, whose value is influenced by bankers in other countries. It is supposed to be illegal to have what we call 'money', it's supposed to be credit dollars, not money dollars. But since 1913, we've had money dollars via the federal reserve. We were supposed to create money, not let foreigners own a corporation that prints money and sells it to us with interest. It's a ponzi scheme scam, and it rules the world. (Anyone know what happened after 1913? Only started 1 year later. Probably wouldn't of happened had we not gotten on board and used as leverage by intertwining our system with London. Kind of gave them a monetary edge with it's monetary battle with Germany. Sometimes you just have to take a step back and see what business deals preceded big events. Like Britain and mussolini, or Prescott bush and hitler. The world that currently is, didn't just happen. It's what was created.

Believe what you want to believe, but I hope you go to those sites, read them, watch the videos, and enlighten yourself, and then get a couple of your relatives or friends to do it as well, etc, etc. It's only when we all know what the hell is going on, that we can act on it. Otherwise like the media the past year, we just keep asking the wrong questions, and thus demanding the wrong answers.

Good luck.
October 23, 2009 12:18:50 PM

jmc8888 said:
Good luck.
Lol, I guess we'll need it! So the comment about hardware costs rising dramatically were more of a comment about the economic climate in the U.S. as a whole. That's depressing.

To the OP, I would definitely pull the trigger on 7. I've been running the RC since it came out and I've had no problems with any games. I don't play any MMORPG's though.
October 23, 2009 4:35:18 PM

Yeah exactly. But it's not just U.S., it's the world. Trust me on this. This isn't an American problem, it's an Earth problem, caused by all the countries in the current economic system, which is all of us. It's just since we're (U.S.) at the top, it's appears as if we come crashing down further, faster, farther and have more complicity. But we're all in this boat, and it wasn't the U.S. that took us here, but we're all here. So if we go down, everyone goes down and vice versa. We're major importers, but the asian countries are major exporters. If no one can buy their goods, they'll suffer too among all other things. Ok I'm done lol.

But yeah back on topic, Windows 7 should be arriving any second, although I need to wait until I buy the rest of my computer parts. At least I get to look at it lol.





October 23, 2009 8:00:50 PM

I saw a Wall of text of FUD. It's a global economy and the yen isn't going to keep gaining value like some linear equation. The USA is by far the largest consumer of Japanese goods and the less USA buys from them, they less their money will be worth. Not to say they still can't gain economic value from other countries.

Remember, when the housing market collapsed, it lost less money than what we spend on military in one year, and this collapse not only hurt us, but cause the ENTIRE world to feel it for several years. Saying the yen will magically be worth 10x's the dollar is foolish, not to mention the market is already rebounding.
October 28, 2009 2:19:08 AM

WTF does the value of the Yen have to do with the cost of PC parts? Their not built in Japan guys, their built in China, Taiwon, Mexico, and South Korea. And last I checked those countries exchange rates went lower then the US rate. SK Won (produces of Hyunix, Hyundai, Samsung and LG components) went from 980 to the dollar to 1400 to the dollar when the economy went nuclear. Now its at 1170 ~ 1200 won to the dollar and is holding. China had it even worse off, but because their currency is internally fixed and is not available for foreign exchange (its how China controls its economy) nobody get to see it.

PC Components will not double or triple in price, they'll stay on the same ratio of supply / demand they've been at for years.

And the ultimate proof is that in Japan, PC components are MORE expensive then in the US. The myth that Japan is some kind of super tech country is extremely false. Their the worlds leaders in Robotics for sure, but PC Tech is a different story. Intel / AMD / SUN / IBM / Microsoft / Oracle / Cisco / NVidia and Juniper are all US based countries, with ATI being formally from Canada. Most of your PC component manufacturers are from Taiwon, the economics just work out better that way.

Every year someone somewhere wearing a tin foil hat (to prevent the governments mind control waves) predicts the doom / destruction of all humanity and the fall of all the world back to cave man erra times. I've grown to just ignore them.
October 29, 2009 8:13:50 PM

palladin9479 said:
Every year someone somewhere wearing a tin foil hat (to prevent the governments mind control waves) predicts the doom / destruction of all humanity and the fall of all the world back to cave man erra times. I've grown to just ignore them.
Great analogy! Thanks for countering the pessimism.
!