New system & not exactly happy with temperature

[Woodman]

Its a tad long & i apologize for making it that way.

Ive recently built a new system:

Asus A7V266-C
Samsung PC2100 256MB
AthlonXP 1700+
Coolermaster AAC-001 HSF
Coolermaster HTK-001 (Aluminmum Paste)
350W PSU with 2 fans (IN & OUT)
1 Chassis fan (OUT)


When i first saw the readout in the BIOS, i thought it must be faulty or something since it was reading 60C-65C. But after checking with MM5, it really was about that temperature. Further tests concluded that my CPU was running at 63C-66C idle & 65C-72C on load. Yes, im a little horrified & so i decided to do something about it.


<b>Hole</b>
First, my chassis fan located at the back seems good, however the hole itself isnt, since its just a bunch of small holes. I didnt have the dremel tool, & i didnt want to spend anymore than i have to to cut the case.

Which is why ill try to cut the hole with a regular driller. Ill first make a circular outline onto the case, & then dril small holes around that circle. Hopefully, i could then use a hammer to break the piece off. Lastly, ill mount a stone sander thing to smoothen the edges. My plan good or am i destined for failure?


<b>Fan</b>
Second, 1 fan doesnt seem enough, i want to put an additional fan on the front (intake), either on top (just below the CDROM) or below. Which should i go for?

If its on the top, ill have to do a little mod on 2 bay covers. Stick the covers together with something & then make an outline for an 80mm fan. Ill then drill the necessary holes (like described above) to make the large circular hole. Or maybe ill just make a square one. Either way, it shouldnt be too hard, i have a hand metal cutter to do the job if i fail with the driller. If i go this route, is my plan good?

If its on the bottom, as described above, ill have to drill either a square or circular cut (depending on how thick the fan is). But the problem with making the fan below, is that the LEDs & buttons are in the way (smack in the middle of the case). Ill have to move them to another spot, perhaps more on the left or right side. It doesnt seem too hard, since ill just be cuting plastic, right? Will it melt if i use the driller?


<b>Wires</b>
By now im sure you realize im a sort of a cheapskate , & so i dont want to spend on rounded wires. I have several plans, which of them do you think is good?

But first, ill split the IDE cable into 2-3 wires for each strand, that fine?:
1. <i>Tape them using electrical tape</i> - i think it'll be pretty stiff, but is this a good idea? It said on the cover that the tape shouldnt be used in an 80C environment.

2. <i>Use those plastic tube shrinkers</i> - i tried shrinking the tube & it didnt come out very well. Some parts were smooth, while others were weird & misshaped. Nevertheless, its somewhat bendable. This idea good?

3. <i>Plastic spirals</i> - i dont think i can go this route since i havent seen any shops selling these

4. <i>Tie them with plastic strappers</i> - not exactly pretty looking & might be somewhat stiff, so is it a serious option for some?

So which of these do you think i should go with? Does anyone have any other options?


If all else fails, i might just give in & buy the best cooler i can find (which is the more expensive Coolermaster HHC-001, which has those funky tubes) & if i can find it, Arctic Silver3 or the Coolermaster "Premimum" paste (which i remember seeing as comparable to AC3).

Thanks for any replies

 

[squeegee]

Hole:
Cutting it out with a drill will be difficult i'd think. Unless you're just planning on enlarging the existing holes, that should be no problem.

Fan:
So, your power supply has an intake fan on its bottom, and exhaust out the back? and you have another output fan in the back? thats a big part of your problem right there: you need an input fan.

I'll assume your exhaust fans (PSU and the other one) are near the top of the case. if you put your intake fan at the top, the air will flow right through the top of the case, and not flow past your components. Much better to put it down low so you get some circulation going.

Its also probably better to put your intake fan in the side of the case. It'd probably be easier to cut (should be thinner steel), and will flow more air if it doesnt have to pull it through the front bezel.

What kind of video card do you have? it's probably putting out a lot of heat too. I recommend cutting the hole for the intake fan so it blows right on your gpu.

What is your case temperature? ambient temperature? your hsf won't be doing too well if its trying to cool itself off using the hot air in the case. Get your case temps down before you buy a new HSF.

Wires:
Electrical tape should work. If your case temp is at 80C, you have much bigger issues than melting the tape. I use a few rubber bands and a twisty-tie from a bag of bread.

As for cutting a hole in the case, I used a jig-saw with a metal cutting blade, and a drill to start it. Lots of flying metal fragments, keep the electrical components away and wear safety glasses. Also, put something underneath so the metal doesnt flex as much as you apply pressure.

I believe most case modders use a dremel-type tool. A quick check at homedepot.com shows they're between $40-100. They have a lot more uses than just modding your case though, maybe not a bad investment.

Another thought i had for cutting the side of the case was a chisel (you said you had a "hand metal cutter"?). Just cut out an octogon and drill your holes in the 4 corners. I've never heard of this being done before, so i'd ask the hardware store people what they think.

Chisels are also cheap. Home Depot has them online for $3.50 to $10 each, and a set of 3 is only $13.41. You MUST be sure to get the right kind of chisel. Woodworking chisel's probably won't last too long. The metalworking chisels are called "cold chisels." Check out homedepot.com, SKU# 897586 (search on the page), or
Tools > Hand Tools > Files, Rasps, Chisels, Planes, Punches

 

[Woodman]

Hole:
Cutting it out with a drill will be difficult i'd think. Unless you're just planning on enlarging the existing holes, that should be no problem.

Yep, its just for enlarging.

Fan:
So, your power supply has an intake fan on its bottom, and exhaust out the back? and you have another output fan in the back? thats a big part of your problem right there: you need an input fan.

Heh thats right

I'll assume your exhaust fans (PSU and the other one) are near the top of the case. if you put your intake fan at the top, the air will flow right through the top of the case, and not flow past your components. Much better to put it down low so you get some circulation going.

Ahh yes, that makes good sense. So bottom it will be.

Its also probably better to put your intake fan in the side of the case. It'd probably be easier to cut (should be thinner steel), and will flow more air if it doesnt have to pull it through the front bezel.

Im a little hesitant on cutting holes at the side actually, since it doesnt seem to be easy without the right tools. I dont want to make a mess of things (something i can get away with at the front & back). Besides, i dont have a lot of room & so the monitor is right next to the case. The air being sucked in from the side would be very warm coming straight from the monitor. I will think about it tho

What kind of video card do you have? it's probably putting out a lot of heat too. I recommend cutting the hole for the intake fan so it blows right on your gpu.

Ahh yes forgive me, i seemed to have left that bit out Its a GeForce4 Ti4200 card from Inno3D. I dont know if anyone thought of it yet, but i was thinking of building a cooler that'll sit directly below the 3D card, maybe an 80mm fan or something.

By the way, how do i go about finding the temperature of the 3D card?

What is your case temperature? ambient temperature? your hsf won't be doing too well if its trying to cool itself off using the hot air in the case. Get your case temps down before you buy a new HSF.

I dont have a clue on my case temperature, its a cheapo case & it does get quite warm whenever i turn my system on heh.

Wires:
Electrical tape should work. If your case temp is at 80C, you have much bigger issues than melting the tape. I use a few rubber bands and a twisty-tie from a bag of bread.

My case temperature isnt 80C really, i can touch it, & when i open the side panel, it doesnt burn at all. Id say its something like 40C-50C at most. I was just worried about the tape sortof "coming lose" suddenly in that kind of temperature. Whats your case temperature? Whats the average?

As for cutting a hole in the case, I used a jig-saw with a metal cutting blade, and a drill to start it. Lots of flying metal fragments, keep the electrical components away and wear safety glasses. Also, put something underneath so the metal doesnt flex as much as you apply pressure.

Im not too familiar with tools, but i assume that this "jig-saw" is electrical in nature? What I do have is this metal cutter, its basically a frame with a flexible blackish blade stuck below, which works like a normal wood saw. If i put too much pressure on it, the blade breaks, im sure you know what im talking about heh.

The problem with this is obviously the frame, but i think i can get around that.

I believe most case modders use a dremel-type tool. A quick check at homedepot.com shows they're between $40-100. They have a lot more uses than just modding your case though, maybe not a bad investment.

Well i dont really plan on doing a lot of modding, just enough for this small project, so i probably wont be using it as much. Ill think about it tho, if i have enough cash that is

Another thought i had for cutting the side of the case was a chisel (you said you had a "hand metal cutter"?). Just cut out an octogon and drill your holes in the 4 corners. I've never heard of this being done before, so i'd ask the hardware store people what they think.

Chisels are also cheap. Home Depot has them online for $3.50 to $10 each, and a set of 3 is only $13.41. You MUST be sure to get the right kind of chisel. Woodworking chisel's probably won't last too long. The metalworking chisels are called "cold chisels." Check out homedepot.com, SKU# 897586 (search on the page), or
Tools > Hand Tools > Files, Rasps, Chisels, Planes, Punches

Sounds good, ill check them out.


Thanks for your thoughts

 

[squeegee]

"air being sucked in from the side would be very warm coming straight from the monitor"
--yep, thats no good. my case is on the floor with not much else around it.

My geforce3 runs pretty hot. I measured it with a <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bvalenzo/thermo.jpg" target="_new">digital meat thermometer</A> at the edge of the heatsink and it was about 40C at idle. I don't know if geforce3/4 have thermistors on them to get temperature readings, so you may have to improvise.

Does your motherboard not have a system temperature reading? you may have to play around with the settings in MBM5 to get it to display that.

I was just joking about having your case being at 80C =P sorry, i didn't write that very well.

What is the temperature in the room (ambient)? With the air conditioning on my room is about 77F (25C). My temperatures at idle are roughly 33/49C (case/cpu). Thats with a volcano 6cu (4800rpm) on a 1.4ghz athlon xp, geforce3 ti200, 60mm side intake blowing on the gpu, 80mm exhaust out the back, and the psu's exhaust fan.

If all you have available is a <A HREF="http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/pii/8/1/2/5/A5218_3.JPG" target="_new">hacksaw (is this what you mean?)</A> and a drill, you may be limited to just enlarging existing holes. I'm pretty lucky i have access to <A HREF="http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/pii/8/9/6/7/A187698_3.JPG" target="_new">a hefty jigsaw</A>.

if you're going to cut/drill holes in the case, remove all of the electronic components first. Powersupply and everything. Metal fragments are really bad for that stuff. I was thinking you'd use the chisels for the side panel, i'm not sure how well they'd work on the case itself. I'd ask somebody at the hardware store what they think before you buy those, since you probably won't be cutting the side panel.

 

[Woodman]

Well it has a chipset reading, which is at around a nice 40C - 45C. As for the room temperature, well that varies from 29C to 34C (no air-con heh).

And yes, thats exactly the tool that i have, but a smaller version of it.

And yes, i was thinking of sucking up all the remaining metal fragments into my vacume cleaner once im done. Should be good eh?


After doing some tests, it seems my HSF & thermal paste are just fine. I was fearing that i had to remount that again or perhaps buy a new one, but considering that the temperature doesnt rise up straight away (more or less gradually), that instead suggests poor air circulation.

I also reversed my exhaust fan & saw that the temperature rose even slower, unfortunatly (as i expected), the final temperature is much worst than before (idle 67C-68C, load 72C-79C).

Also after seeing some of my components a little more carefully, it would seem that a front intake fan located at the bottom wouldnt give me that much circulation. The air would just halt to where my sound card, LAN card as well as my AGP card would be. How would one get around that problem?

Once again thanks

 

[Woodman]

How about this?

Ill remove all the PCI slot covers & continue making the intake hole in the front (bottom part). Ill then block the upper & lower portion of my case nearly completely, so that the front intake fan would blow air from the front, straight to the back, giving my GeForce4 card adaquate airflow.

Ill then continue to add a second front intake fan, this time on the bay part (CD-ROM area), & give my CPU separate air-flow from the rest of the system.


Summary:
Upper & lower sections blocked
1 upper-front intake fan
1 upper-exhaust fan + PSU
1 lower-intake fan

That idea good?

 

[squeegee]

Having two air channels flowing front to back might work, what would you use to block them off though?

Move your PCI cards around so that you give your gf4 as much breathing room as possible. <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bvalenzo/agp_closeup.jpg" target="_new">Here's my setup</A>. The top of my intake fan is basically even with the edge of my gf3. Depending on how many free slots you have open, maybe you could mount an exhaust fan in there somehow? maybe that'd be bad for airflow though. Most designs i've seen are intake at the bottom, exhaust at the top.

There should be some clearance around your agp card that the air can flow around, i guess it depends on how big your case is. my case is only 7.5" wide (enlight 7237), and it seems to be doing ok. Theres probably a lot of turbulence in the air flow, but it works.

You may want to cut out the grills for the intake fans, and replace them with the smaller wire fan guards. <A HREF="http://www.2cooltek.com" target="_new">2cooltek</A> has some nice tutorials with pictures on the site. <A HREF="http://www.2cooltek.com/case102.html" target="_new">Here's the one</A> that'll show you a bit about what i'm talking about.

 

[Woodman]

Having two air channels flowing front to back might work, what would you use to block them off though?

I was thinking of screwing something to the side panel (which wont touch anything ), ill try to look for something around.

Move your PCI cards around so that you give your gf4 as much breathing room as possible. Here's my setup. The top of my intake fan is basically even with the edge of my gf3. Depending on how many free slots you have open, maybe you could mount an exhaust fan in there somehow? maybe that'd be bad for airflow though. Most designs i've seen are intake at the bottom, exhaust at the top.

An exhaust fan in the PCI slots? Hrmm, its not a bad idea, however i dont think it'll work for me. Since its a cheapo case, the metal between the slots are very weak (easily bendable) & i dont think they can take extra holes for screws. Probably no room too .

There should be some clearance around your agp card that the air can flow around, i guess it depends on how big your case is. my case is only 7.5" wide (enlight 7237), and it seems to be doing ok. Theres probably a lot of turbulence in the air flow, but it works.

Yes im planning something, in fact, i might just use the on-board audio instead of my SB PCI64 card to free up more space.

You may want to cut out the grills for the intake fans, and replace them with the smaller wire fan guards. 2cooltek has some nice tutorials with pictures on the site. Here's the one that'll show you a bit about what i'm talking about.

I dont understand, cut out the grills for the lower front intake fan you mean? And yes please, id love some nice tutorials .

 

[squeegee]

Go through the tutorials at <A HREF="http://www.2cooltek.com" target="_new">www.2cooltek.com(link)</A>. Especially "Case 102," thats the one where he cuts out the fan grills.

 

[Woodman]

Thanks, ill look at it in a few hours time. Ill have to go out to check hardware .