Too hot with Alpha PAL 8045, AS3 and 84 cfm fan

[gaviota]

Hello everyone,

A couple of weeks ago I posted a message asking if my Athlon XP 2100+ with stock AMD heatsink and fan was running too hot with temperatures in the 60 - 70C range. I was told it was way too hot, so I immediately bought an Alpha PAL 8045, an 84.1 cfm Vantec Tornado fan and Acrtic Silver III.

Additionally, the case has 4 fans (two blowing air in, and two sucking it out), and I also installed round IDE cables to improve air circulation inside the case. Room temperature is in the 25 - 30C range.

I had no problems installing everything following the instructions provided. The fans are very loud, but the temperatures only dropped about 10C, to the 50 - 60C range, which is I think is still too hot.

I see posts with people reporting temperatures in the 40 - 50C range, so I was expecting better results. Is this normal, or did I do something wrong?

Thanks for your help.

 

[bum_jcrules]

What is the ambient temperature that the case is in?

Is the heatsink evenly screwed down to the CPU?

Did you evenly apply the ASIII?

Where are you reading the temps from? Motherboard Monitor? The temps read on there can be higher or lower than the actual.

The Alpha 8045 with a fan like that should get you down into the 0.26C/W - 0.32C/W range. So if you are not there could be something amiss.

<b>"Sometimes you can't hear me because I'm talking in parenthesis" - Steven Wright</b> :lol:

 

[squeegee]

That sounds kinda strange.

What are the case/system temperatures?
Where are the intake fans?
What are the ratings on all your fans? size and CFM (cubic feet per minute)

From what i've heard, an 8045 and an 83cfm fan should be great for cooling, but only if the temperature in the case isnt really high.

Look at where your intake fans are. Is the front bezel blocking their air flow? maybe you can drill some extra holes, or enlarge the existing ones to increase the flow. Better yet, if they're not already on the side of the case, cut a couple holes and remount them there.

Make sure the exhaust fans are near the top of the case, with one near the processor, and the intakes are near the bottom.

You know the slots in the case that are designed to let the air flow through, where the fans are supposed to be mounted? Cut them out. Be careful of metal fragments though, those aren't good for electronics, so you may want to remove all your equipment from the case first. I used tin-snips to cut them out, so there were no fragments (plus the fan was running, and it was an exhaust =P)

If you cut out the grills from the case, you may want to replace them with the much smaller screw-on type grills. They're also rounded, which allows for better airflow. Just depends on where the fan is, if you have any kids/pets, etc. Other things like filters can be used on the intake fans to reduce the amount of dust/pet hair that gets inside.

Look over the heatsink to be sure its mounted correctly. although if your case temps are high (40C or more) then thats most likely your problem.

Most of the newer video cards generate a lot of heat too. A fan blowing on them would help a lot, so if you drill holes in the side of the case, put one there.

Not positive, but i think the 8045 is designed to have air pulled off of it, not blown onto it. Make sure the fan is going the right direction. Its not supposed to make a big difference (5% i think i read) but every bit helps.

For reference, i have an 80mm 36CFM intake fan (Sunon PTB2) blowing on my geforce3, an 80mm exhaust fan near the cpu (kinda weak, came with the case), plus whatever the PSU puts out. Air pressure is pretty much balanced, input to exhaust.

System temps are between 30-32C with an ambient of 25C, close to idle. CPU range is 45-57C with a Volcano 6Cu and AS2.

 

[bum_jcrules]

"Not positive, but i think the 8045 is designed to have air pulled off of it, not blown onto it. Make sure the fan is going the right direction. Its not supposed to make a big difference (5% i think i read) but every bit helps."

<A HREF="http://Not positive, but i think the 8045 is designed to have air pulled off of it, not blown onto it. Make sure the fan is going the right direction. Its not supposed to make a big difference (5% i think i read) but every bit helps.
" target="_new">See this diagram from Alpha</A>. They show Induction, however, if you look at the expulsion numbers they are better. So they are designed for induction but get better results utilizing expulsion.

<b>"Sometimes you can't hear me because I'm talking in parenthesis" - Steven Wright</b> :lol:

 

[gaviota]

"What is the ambient temperature that the case is in?"
- Room temperature is 25 - 30C.

"Is the heatsink evenly screwed down to the CPU?"
- Following the instructions provided with the heatsink, I removed the motherboard (Asus A7V333) and used the 4 screws, the 4 nylon washers and the 4 springs provided for motherboards with "small" holes. I tightened the screws and springs in a crossed pattern, tight enought to hold the heatsink firmly in place, but not too tight because I did not want to crack the motherboard.

"Did you evenly apply the ASIII?"
- Following the instructions of AS3, I applied a thin layer to the heatsink and to the CPU core. Then I cleaned the AS3 from the heatsink only (not from the CPU core) and placed the heatsink over the CPU being careful not do any turning motion.

"Where are you reading the temps from?"
- I'm reading the temperatures from the Asus Probe software. Are these temperatures higher or lower than the actual temperatures?

"What are the case/system temperatures?"
- The motherboard temperature is 30 - 33C. I don't know the temperature inside the case, but room temperature is 25 - 30C.

"Where are the intake fans?"
- Two fans are in the front of the case blowing air in, and the other 2 are in the back of the case blowing air out.

"What are the ratings on all your fans? size and CFM"
- The 2 fans that blow air into the case are the cheap 80mm fans that come with cases. The 3rd fan is one of those horizontal fans that blow air our through one of the expansion slots of the case. The 4th fan is the stock 60mm AMD CPU fan, which is now blowing air out of the case. I don't know the CFM rating of any of these fans. As mentioned earlier, the CPU fan is a Vantec Tornado, 80mm, 84 CFM.

"Look at where your intake fans are. Is the front bezel blocking their air flow?"
- One of the fans, which is located in the middle of the case, blows air directly to the hard drives, so airflow is blocked. The other one is in the bottom of the case, and it blows air directly into the inside, nothing blocking the air.

"Make sure the exhaust fans are near the top of the case, with one near the processor, and the intakes are near the bottom."
- One of the exhaust fans is right besides the CPU. One of the intakes is near the bottom.

I've heard that AS3 takes a few days to settle in. Is this true? Does this mean that the PC should not be used right after applying the AS3?

Another doubt I had was that the Athlon XP has 4 round rubber "legs" on the top in each of the corners, which made me doubt that the heatsink would make proper contact with the core. I considered removing them, but then I saw that these little rubbers were shown in the pictures of the Athlon XP in the AS3 instructions, so I assumed they were necessary to protect the core. Could this be causing improper contact between the heatsink and the CPU core?

 

[squeegee]

I've heard asus probe can give funky numbers. Try <A HREF="http://mbm.livewiredev.com/" target="_new">Motherboard Monitor 5</A>.

Motherboard is 30-33? that kinda points to the software reading the CPU temp, or the heatsink not being mounted correctly. I've never mounted a heatsink that bolts to the mobo, so i won't comment.

The stock amd fan isn't too bad. I used it as my only intake for a while. I haven't heard anything good about the expansion-slot fans though.

AS3 takes a few days to "settle in," but this is nothing to worry about, just use your computer as you normally do.

The rubber legs on the athlon chip are there to help balance the heatsink so it sits evenly over the core. I doubt those would be giving you problems.

What case are you using? I'd like to see what the front of the case looks like. Sometimes the pretty plastic cover blocks a lot of air, and needs some reworking to improve the airflow.

You might try moving your case fans around a bit, swap positions, etc. Also, take the side panel off and see how the temps move. If you have good air flow when the case is closed, temperatures should actually rise when you open the case.

 

[gaviota]

"What case are you using?"
Its an Antec mid-tower case.

An update...last night I disassembled my PC again to double check everything and I read (for the 10th time probably!) the instructions of Alpha and AS3. I didn't find anything unusual, so i only tightened the screws of the heatsink to make sure that it was making proper contact with the CPU. I didn't notice any change in the temperature when I turned on my PC again.

However, the heatsink instructions state that sometimes its necesary to install aditional washers in the springs to improve contact. Tonight I will disassemble it again to install an extra washer in each of the springs...maybe this will solve the problem.