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Weird area code problem

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Anonymous
April 5, 2005 8:01:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
on virtually every number, even when calling "down the
block". I've had cell phones/plans for years with different
carriers and this is definitely not normal compared to my
previous experience. Does anyone know what would cause
this? Could it have something to do with a phone setting?
I plan to talk with Verizon customer service about it, but I
thought I'd ask around a little first. TIA
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 8:01:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Swingman wrote:
> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
> on virtually every number

Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone?

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 8:01:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
>> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
>> on virtually every number
>
> Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone?

Depending on where you live, they have added new area codes to some areas
lately. When a local calling area goes to multiple area codes, they usually
go to 10 digit dialing when there are multiple area codes in the same local
areas, and it get really strange when a cell exchange is in a different area
code.
Where are you located at?
Related resources
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 8:01:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Peter Pan wrote:
> Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>>Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
>>>have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
>>>on virtually every number
>>
>>Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone?
>
>
> Depending on where you live, they have added new area codes to some areas
> lately. When a local calling area goes to multiple area codes, they usually

SOMETIMES. For example, 909/951 here was a split, not an overlay, and 10D
dialing isn't required. 909 stayed in lower San Bernardino County, basically;
Riverside County got 951. (More or less.)

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
April 5, 2005 9:36:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Swingman <sbt@silcom.com> wrote:
: On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
: have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
: on virtually every number, even when calling "down the
: block". I've had cell phones/plans for years with different
: carriers and this is definitely not normal compared to my
: previous experience. Does anyone know what would cause
: this? Could it have something to do with a phone setting?
: I plan to talk with Verizon customer service about it, but I
: thought I'd ask around a little first. TIA

In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the
norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing
anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong. In any case, I'm not
surprised Verizon AC requires ten digit dialing given that all domestic
numbers are "free long distance" in the AC network.

I whined about ten digit dialing for a while when it was first imposed
on us here, but since I usually need to program frequently-called
numbers into my phone only once, I don't worry much about it anymore.
Anyway, because of number portability, the concept of an area code
will soon be a thing of the past.

Andrew
--
----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
*******************************************************************
----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
*******************************************************************
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:36:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Andrew wrote:

> In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the
> norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing
> anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong. In any case, I'm not
> surprised Verizon AC requires ten digit dialing given that all domestic
> numbers are "free long distance" in the AC network.

There are several places that still have 7-digit dialing. Annoyingly, the NPA
that includes Apple Valley, California, even allows 7-digit dialing for toll
calls. (or at least Verizon's landline switches allow it in my immediate area.)

I can dial 760-301-xxxx in Ridgecrest, an hour north of here and definitely
long distance, with seven digits. I'm also in 760. I've misdialed long distance
numbers quite a few times when I meant to call local numbers.

That having been said, I've never used a carrier (not Verizon, not Sprint, not
Alltel nor GTE nor Northcoast PCS) that *always* required ten digits to dial.
It's always been seven if you're dialing to the same area code, ten otherwise,
with the initial "1" being optional.

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:36:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
>
>> In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the
>> norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing
>> anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong. In any case, I'm not
>> surprised Verizon AC requires ten digit dialing given that all
>> domestic numbers are "free long distance" in the AC network.
>
> There are several places that still have 7-digit dialing. Annoyingly,
> the NPA that includes Apple Valley, California, even allows 7-digit
> dialing for toll calls. (or at least Verizon's landline switches
> allow it in my immediate area.)
> I can dial 760-301-xxxx in Ridgecrest, an hour north of here and
> definitely long distance, with seven digits. I'm also in 760. I've
> misdialed long distance numbers quite a few times when I meant to
> call local numbers.
> That having been said, I've never used a carrier (not Verizon, not
> Sprint, not Alltel nor GTE nor Northcoast PCS) that *always* required
> ten digits to dial. It's always been seven if you're dialing to the
> same area code, ten otherwise, with the initial "1" being optional.

Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area
codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) 
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:36:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Peter Pan wrote:

> Must be a small city..

AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the Mexican border.
Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm Springs/Indio, and several
suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San Diego's at least a three-hour drive
from my house.

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:36:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Peter Pan wrote:
>
>> Must be a small city..
>
> AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the
> Mexican border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm
> Springs/Indio, and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San
> Diego's at least a three-hour drive from my house.

Okay.. sorry.. a bunch of small cities :) 
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:36:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Peter Pan wrote:
> Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>>Peter Pan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Must be a small city..
>>
>>AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the
>>Mexican border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm
>>Springs/Indio, and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San
>>Diego's at least a three-hour drive from my house.
>
>
> Okay.. sorry.. a bunch of small cities :) 

Define small :p 

Apple Valley: population of around 60,000
Victorville: around 80,000
Hesperia: also around 60,000

:) 


--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:36:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Peter Pan wrote:
>> Steve Sobol wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Pan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Must be a small city..
>>>
>>> AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the
>>> Mexican border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm
>>> Springs/Indio, and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San
>>> Diego's at least a three-hour drive from my house.
>>
>>
>> Okay.. sorry.. a bunch of small cities :) 
>
> Define small :p 
>
> Apple Valley: population of around 60,000
> Victorville: around 80,000
> Hesperia: also around 60,000
>
> :) 

If it's less than 1 million (funny, that's 7 digits!) it's small....... But
to answer your definition, I grew up in a town in Indiana that had a
population of about 2,500... We were big compared to some of the other
places nearby pop 100-200 <--- that's micro!
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 1:25:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:08:52 -0700, "Peter Pan"
<PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area
>codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) 

We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
most densely-populated state in the country.

What's really annoying is that at least one wireless company in Canada
(Telus?) requires a '1' to be dialed before the 10 digits. This is a
major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the
phone's address book.

--
Bob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting
njtbob@X-verizon-X.net | rich writing software."
Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980
April 5, 2005 1:25:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:25:19 GMT, Bob Scheurle
<njtbob@X-verizon-X.net> wrote:

>We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
>most densely-populated state in the country.
>
>What's really annoying is that at least one wireless company in Canada
>(Telus?) requires a '1' to be dialed before the 10 digits. This is a
>major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the
>phone's address book.

I can dial a local number any of four ways. 7D (NXX-XXXX), 10D
(NXX-NXX-XXXX), 1+10D (1-NXX-NXX-XXXX) or +1 NXX NXX XXXX and it all
gets billed as a local call. (T-Mobile)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 1:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Peter Pan wrote:
>> Steve Sobol wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Pan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Must be a small city..
>>>
>>> AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred
>>> miles to the Mexican border. Ridgecrest, Apple
>>> Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm Springs/Indio, and
>>> several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San
>>> Diego's at least a three-hour drive from my house.
>>
>>
>> Okay.. sorry.. a bunch of small cities :) 
>
> Define small :p 
>
> Apple Valley: population of around 60,000
> Victorville: around 80,000
> Hesperia: also around 60,000

Ummm, I live in San Jose, CA. Not so small.
Area code: 408
Land Line: SBC (Pac*bell), 7 digit dialing
Cellular: VZW, 7 digit dialing

-Quick
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:56:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:3beo0nF6h02ngU1@individual.net...
> Steve Sobol wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
>>> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
>>> on virtually every number
>>
>> Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone?
>
> Depending on where you live, they have added new area codes to some areas
> lately. When a local calling area goes to multiple area codes, they
> usually go to 10 digit dialing when there are multiple area codes in the
> same local areas, and it get really strange when a cell exchange is in a
> different area code.
> Where are you located at?

Well, this has become a lively discussion <g>. I'm located in Ventura,
California - area code 805.
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:56:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

swingman wrote:
> "Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:3beo0nF6h02ngU1@individual.net...
>> Steve Sobol wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
>>>> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
>>>> on virtually every number
>>>
>>> Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone?
>>
>> Depending on where you live, they have added new area codes to some
>> areas lately. When a local calling area goes to multiple area codes,
>> they usually go to 10 digit dialing when there are multiple area
>> codes in the same local areas, and it get really strange when a cell
>> exchange is in a different area code.
>> Where are you located at?
>
> Well, this has become a lively discussion <g>. I'm located in
> Ventura, California - area code 805.

Not sure on that one. I live in Baltimore, and when they split area codes
they went to 10 digit dialing, even in my house (have to dial 10 digits even
to call my sister downstairs in the laundry room). Did have to use 10 digit
in ventura hills, and when I was in Tampa, but that may have been cuz I was
from out of state.
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 12:06:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

swingman wrote:

> Well, this has become a lively discussion <g>. I'm located in Ventura,
> California - area code 805.

alt.cellular.verizon.california, anyone? ;p


--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 8:08:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Actually north up to Lone Pine, Bishop, Mammoth Lakes, to Topaz Lake, and
east to Death Valley too. The 760 is the largest area code in California.
We old timers can remember when it was part of the 619 (now San Diego) and
714 (now south Orange County) area codes.


"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:D 2tdbc$iei$2@ratbert.glorb.com...
> Peter Pan wrote:
>
>> Must be a small city..
>
> AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the Mexican
> border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm Springs/Indio,
> and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San Diego's at least a
> three-hour drive from my house.
>
> --
> JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
> Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
>
> "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
> --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 8:08:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Charles Thistlethwaite wrote:
> Actually north up to Lone Pine, Bishop, Mammoth Lakes, to Topaz Lake, and
> east to Death Valley too. The 760 is the largest area code in California.
> We old timers can remember when it was part of the 619 (now San Diego) and
> 714 (now south Orange County) area codes.

Yup. You can still find phone numbers printed on buildings here with the 619 AC
occasionally, and Johnny D's in Apple Valley has old newspaper stories about
Roy Rogers' Apple Valley Inn, which at the time was in 714. :) 

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 8:35:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 5 Apr 2005 05:36:28 GMT, usenetMYSHOES@bizaveMYSHOES.com (Andrew) chose
to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

>In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the
>norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing
>anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong.

Chicago's original 312 went through several splits, but only one overlay,
and that in the suburbs.

First it became 312 in the city, 708 'burbs. Then 708 split into 708, 630,
and 847. Then 312 shrank further to just downtown (plus City of Chicago
offices wherever they are), with 773 for the rest. All of this allowed
7-digit dialing within the same area code, and it still does except in 847
(north suburbs), which got an overlay and went to all-10-digit.

Getting back to the OP, most of us program numbers into our phone books as
10 digits anyway, so that there won't be any confusion when traveling and
calling a number back home.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
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carrying capacity.... Some will argue that because a machine will carry two
people, another may be constructed that will carry a dozen, but those who
make this contention do not understand the theory." - W.J. Jackson and
Thomas Russell, _Flying Machines: Construction and Operation_, 1910
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 11:01:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In New Hampshire. Maine and Vermont, all numbers within your own state
can still be reached via 7-digit dialing. None of these states have
had any new area codes introduced since the Area Code system was
developed in the 1940's. I think the same is true of Rhode Island.

Cell phones also allow 7-digit dialing, unless you are roaming, in
which case you need 10 digits, even within your own state.

As a matter of practice, I program 10 digits for all phone book
entries, even local ones. That way, I can dial a number via the phone
book easily, whether I am down the street from it or in another state.


-way


--
waywith
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Anonymous
April 6, 2005 5:15:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Bob Scheurle wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:08:52 -0700, "Peter Pan"
> <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>>Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area
>>codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) 
>
>
> We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
> most densely-populated state in the country.

Uhm, are you sure of that? I'm in Central New Jersey, area code 732,
and ten digit dialing has been required for all of our calls since
mid-2002.

Our local calling area includes area codes 732, 908 and 848. To further
complicate matters, while MOST people in my area have 732 numbers, not
ALL numbers in the 732 area code are considered local... some are
considered regional in-state LD (though having a cell phone as my
primary line and VoIP as secondary, this makes absolutely no difference
to me). Likewise, some 908 numbers are local, but some are not. And as
far as I know 848 is just about all considered local (though 848 numbers
are still very rare).




--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 9:11:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Swingman claimed:

; On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I
; have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code
; on virtually every number, even when calling "down the
; block". I've had cell phones/plans for years with different

I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or
landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone
companies started overlaying area codes. I just consider phone numbers
to be 10 digits now instead of 7. I'm sure 50 years ago my
grandparents felt the same as you now when they had to start including
the three digit prefix to the four digit main number.

The only difference to me now is that on the cellular, I don't have to
include a leading "1" (except for tollfree numbers), whereas on my
landline, if it's not in my own town, I have to include it.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Anything I can do to help?" "Short of dying? No." (Mr. Morden and
Vir Coto, B5 "Interludes and Examinations")
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 9:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Peter Pan claimed:

; If it's less than 1 million (funny, that's 7 digits!) it's small....... But

Which is meaningless when one person can have multiple numbers.
Landline, cellular, dedicated FAX/modem, beeper... I used to know
someone who had five cellular numbers.

Businesses can have hundreds of individual landline phone numbers in a
single building, plus corporate provided cellulars, etc.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"That's one down and what, several thousand more to go?" "Yeah, well
if this war is going to be as bad as Delenn says we'll need all the
First Ones we can find." (Cmdr. Ivanova and Capt. Sheridan, B5 "Voices
Of Authority")
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 1:37:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:15:00 -0400, Isaiah Beard
<sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>
>> We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
>> most densely-populated state in the country.
>
>Uhm, are you sure of that? I'm in Central New Jersey, area code 732,
>and ten digit dialing has been required for all of our calls since
>mid-2002.

Yup. Go to http://www.areacode-info.com , click on Plans, then Local
Dialing, and enter an area code. The lower right section of the
subsequent page gives the required and permissive dialing patterns.

The 609, 856, and 908 area codes allow 7-digit dialing.

--
Bob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting
njtbob@X-verizon-X.net | rich writing software."
Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 4:52:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
wrote:
>I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or
>landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone
>companies started overlaying area codes.

I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.

>I'm sure 50 years ago my
>grandparents felt the same as you now when they had to start including
>the three digit prefix to the four digit main number.

As recently as the mid- to late-70's, Lake Placid, NY, had 4-digit
dialing.

--
Bob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting
njtbob@X-verizon-X.net | rich writing software."
Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 11:58:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Bob Scheurle Wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
> wrote:
>
> I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
> dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
> same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.
>
>

Usually when overlays are introduced, the local merchants insist on
10-digit dialling being required, otherwise they claim that a merchant
with an "old" area code has an unfair advantage over one that is
assigned a "new" area code. In other words, everybody should be
equally inconvenienced, regardless of whether it's technically
necessary or not!

-way


--
waywith
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Anonymous
April 7, 2005 1:43:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:52:55 GMT, Bob Scheurle
<njtbob@X-verizon-X.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
>wrote:
>>I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or
>>landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone
>>companies started overlaying area codes.
>
>I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
>dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
>same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.

To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think
it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another,
could have the phone numbers 704-377-1234 and 980-377-1234

"OH!", Mr. Kaplan said ... <g>

Indeed, the same house, if a 2nd line was requested, could have the
other area code ... this HAS been reported to have happened in the
Atlanta area, one of the earlier on the eastern side of the US to have
an overlay.

George
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 1:43:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 4/7/05 7:43 AM, in article qvda51tkv990hoinlk2q6ji1tjbd11o31u@4ax.com,
"GeorgeB" <nospam@att.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:52:55 GMT, Bob Scheurle
> <njtbob@X-verizon-X.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
>> wrote:
>>> I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or
>>> landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone
>>> companies started overlaying area codes.
>>
>> I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
>> dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
>> same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.
>
I believe phone systems don't listen to all the numbers being dialed but
only enough numbers to make a connection. You know those business numbers
with words in them spelled out that actually use 11 digits (or more). The
digits after 10 are ignored. And when they went away from only using 0s and
1s as the 2nd digit of "area codes" in the 1990s phone systems could no
longer distinguish whether the first three digits were an area code or not.

> To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think
> it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another,
> could have the phone numbers 704-377-1234 and 980-377-1234
>
> "OH!", Mr. Kaplan said ... <g>
>
> Indeed, the same house, if a 2nd line was requested, could have the
> other area code ... this HAS been reported to have happened in the
> Atlanta area, one of the earlier on the eastern side of the US to have
> an overlay.
>
They have 10 digit dialing in the Dallas, TX area and when I lived there a
couple years ago I had 4 lines with 3 different "area codes" in my house.
Land lines with 972 and 469 area codes and cell phones with 214. It's taken
me a while to get used to 7 digit dialing here in Northern Colorado where I
live now. The Qwest land lines here won't even let you dial 10 digits in the
local area (you get a recording telling you to only dial 7 digits).

Steve
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 1:43:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Johnson wrote:
> The Qwest land lines here won't even let you
> dial 10 digits in the local area (you get a recording
> telling you to only dial 7 digits).

Now that's bad.... "how did they figure out to play
the recording?"... -:) 

-Quick
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 4:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

The 1960 census of my home town was 599. Now it is 1040 and the area
code it used to be in has been split twice. A village one mile away was
around 200. That old area code which used to cover a little more than a
quarter of the state, but most of the states population, now covers one
county.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 5:51:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Bob Scheurle claimed:

; I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
; dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
; same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.

Area codes used to have two distinct patterns, X1X and X0X. When they
started allowing any number for the middle digit, it then became
programmatically difficult, if not impossible, to determine if it was
an area code or prefix. And unlike cellphones, landline phones do not
have a "send" button, so the telco reads in the number for routing as
you enter it.

Therefore, it would have no way of knowing if 978 is a Massachusetts
area code or the prefix for your neighbor across town. By requiring 10
digit dialing, the telco once again has a predictable way of ensuring
that it knows where to route the call.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"I understand just fine. By this time tomorrow, we will be at war with
the Narn. May the Great Maker forgive me." (Amb. Mollari, B5 "The
Coming of Shadows")
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 5:53:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that GeorgeB claimed:

; On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:52:55 GMT, Bob Scheurle
; <njtbob@X-verizon-X.net> wrote:
;
; >On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
; >wrote:
; >>I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or
; >>landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone
; >>companies started overlaying area codes.
; >
; >I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
; >dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
; >same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.
;
; To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think
; it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another,
; could have the phone numbers 704-377-1234 and 980-377-1234
;
; "OH!", Mr. Kaplan said ... <g>

Please get your attributions right. I'm not the one questioning 10
digit dialing. I'm one of the people explaining it. Mr. Scheurle is
the one who is questioning it.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"So you support a system that would leave everyone blind and
toothless?" "Not everyone. Just the bad guys." (Amb. Delenn and Mr.
Garibaldi, B5 "Passing Through Gethsemane")
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 8:16:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is the same for me. If you attempt to dial 10 numbers and the first
one is not a one, then it takes the first three digits and checks to see
if it is a currently used exchange. If it is not a currently used
exchange, you get an error message. If it is a currently used exchange
it then looks at the next four numbers and ignores the last three. If
they are to an active line, it places the call, to some stranger. If
they are not to an active line, you get an error message. If you
attempt to dial 10 numbers and the first one is a one, then similar to
the above, it checks the second through fourth for an active area code,
the fifth through seventh for an active exchange, then waits for the
last, eleventh, digit and gives an error message when it does not get
one. In other words, I can place a local call to an active number and
dial as many numbers after it as I want and they are all ignored.
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 8:26:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Sure it can. It checks to see if the first digit is a one.
Anonymous
April 8, 2005 8:26:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Jerome Zelinske claimed:

; Sure it can. It checks to see if the first digit is a one.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said that for calls within my own
town, I do NOT need to dial the 1, but I do when I call the next town
over.

AAMOF, if I try to dial with a 1 within my town, I get an error, and if
I try to dial without a 1 when calling the next town, I get an error.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"I want us to be what we used to be. I want... I want it all back the
way that it was!" (Amb. Mollari, B5 "Signs and Portents")
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 12:49:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I TOP POST MY APOLOGY ... VERY SORRY to have missed the appropriate
author. George

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:53:30 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
wrote:

>It is alleged that GeorgeB claimed:
>
>; On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:52:55 GMT, Bob Scheurle
>; <njtbob@X-verizon-X.net> wrote:
>;
>; >On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
>; >wrote:
>; >>I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or
>; >>landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone
>; >>companies started overlaying area codes.
>; >
>; >I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only
>; >dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the
>; >same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant.
>;
>; To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think
>; it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another,
>; could have the phone numbers 704-377-1234 and 980-377-1234
>;
>; "OH!", Mr. Kaplan said ... <g>
>
>Please get your attributions right. I'm not the one questioning 10
>digit dialing. I'm one of the people explaining it. Mr. Scheurle is
>the one who is questioning it.
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 8:30:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

If I dial a number within my own town, in my case the entire county, I
also do not need to dial a one, and I also do not need an area code.
Calls to the next area code over do need the one even if it is a local
call.
The big difference here is you said your area code has had an overlay
of a second area code. Here we did a split. Which seems more sensible
to me.
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 8:32:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Jerome Zelinske claimed:

; If I dial a number within my own town, in my case the entire county, I
; also do not need to dial a one, and I also do not need an area code.
; Calls to the next area code over do need the one even if it is a local
; call.
; The big difference here is you said your area code has had an overlay
; of a second area code. Here we did a split. Which seems more sensible
; to me.

Metro Boston (area codes 617 and 781) allegedly have overlays. When I
was working at a local ISP, we were given the overlay info. I was laid
off from there almost three years ago, and we had that info for at
least a half year previous. I don't think the overlays have actually
been used yet, as I have yet to see an unfamiliar area code for the
region. MA area codes 978, 413 and 508 do not have overlays.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"You, what is going on?" "Haven't you heard? The Earth Alliance just
declared Martial Law." (Amb. Mollari and Minbari, B5 "Point Of No
Return")
April 9, 2005 11:16:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 04:30:06 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
<jeromez1@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Here we did a split. Which seems more sensible
>to me.

Until the splits don't have any rationality when you keep making
smaller and smaller areas. Eventually your city will have multiple
area codes and any supposed 7 digit advantage will be gone. I'm not
sure if people are afraid they're going to sprain their fingers
punching three extra buttons but I am amazed that so many people can
get bent out of shape about it. If you can't remember three extra
numbers write it down!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
April 9, 2005 11:26:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 04:32:57 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org>
wrote:

>Metro Boston (area codes 617 and 781) allegedly have overlays. When I
>was working at a local ISP, we were given the overlay info. I was laid
>off from there almost three years ago, and we had that info for at
>least a half year previous. I don't think the overlays have actually
>been used yet, as I have yet to see an unfamiliar area code for the
>region. MA area codes 978, 413 and 508 do not have overlays.

You evidently do not get out very much if you think that overlay area
codes are not used in Massachusetts. I know personally people who
have 339 numbers in the 781 area and I personally know people in the
617 area who have 857 area code numbers. And just FYI 978 has the
overlay 351, and 508 has 774. 413 is the only Massachusetts area code
with no overlay. Just why the Mass. PUC allowed Massachusetts to be
so wasteful with area code resources when they could have overlayed
one or possibly two area codes over the whole former 617 area is a
mystery. If you doubt me go to http://www.nanpa.com and see for
yourself.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 5:09:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Bob Scheurle wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:08:52 -0700, "Peter Pan"
> <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>>Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area
>>codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) 
>
>
> We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
> most densely-populated state in the country.
>
> What's really annoying is that at least one wireless company in Canada
> (Telus?) requires a '1' to be dialed before the 10 digits. This is a
> major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the
> phone's address book.

IIRC from living in Canada, the CRTC (Canada's telecom authority,
similar to the FCC in the United States) required that a 1 precede the
number in a toll call to be charged. 0 preceding the number indicates
that you wish to make a collect call to that number.

TH
April 9, 2005 5:09:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:09:22 GMT, Tropical Haven <user@example.net>
wrote:

>IIRC from living in Canada, the CRTC (Canada's telecom authority,
>similar to the FCC in the United States) required that a 1 precede the
>number in a toll call to be charged. 0 preceding the number indicates
>that you wish to make a collect call to that number.

The US is different. 1 usually means a toll call but in some areas
such as New York, Los Angeles and New York all 1 means is that an area
code follows. It is not an absolute indicator that it is long
distance. Since those cities all use message units pretty much all
calls are timed. I don't remember it may have been Los Angeles or New
York but "local" is only considered that within 12 miles.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
April 9, 2005 5:14:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Bob Scheurle wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:15:00 -0400, Isaiah Beard
> <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote:
>
>>>We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
>>>most densely-populated state in the country.
>>
>>Uhm, are you sure of that? I'm in Central New Jersey, area code 732,
>>and ten digit dialing has been required for all of our calls since
>>mid-2002.
>
>
> Yup. Go to http://www.areacode-info.com , click on Plans, then Local
> Dialing, and enter an area code. The lower right section of the
> subsequent page gives the required and permissive dialing patterns.
>
> The 609, 856, and 908 area codes allow 7-digit dialing.

According to that, 10 digit dialing is required in area code 407.
However, with my mobile phone, I can do 7 digit dialing to any 407
number. I'm guessing that somehow switches for mobile phones which can
roam are different from switches of fixed location wirelines?

TH
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 8:13:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

The rationality is that an area has one area code. So you would
automatically know the area code if you know the address, or at least
the general location. If that area would be reduced in size to only
half the county so that someone in the northern half of the city would
have to call a different area code to make a call to the southern half
of the city, then the proper use of area codes to designate separate
areas would still be valid.
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 1:37:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Jerome Zelinske wrote:
> In other words, I can place a local call to an active number and
> dial as many numbers after it as I want and they are all ignored.

Sort of necessary, what with advertising, no? "Call 1-800-MATTRESS!"
"Call 1-312-FREEOFFERFORYOUTODAYONLY!"

--
I miss my .signature.
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 2:45:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

7 vs. 10 vs. 11 digit landline calls have different rules in different
parts of the U.S.

Some areas have what is called "toll alerting", which means that any
call which is not "free" must be dialed with a leading 1. A few years
ago, 1+7 was allowed, but now it must be 1+3+7. Under this scheme, calls
to the same area code which are toll calls must by dialed with 11
digits. Some such areas allow non-toll calls which cross area codes to
be dialed with 10 digits. Some areas (such as Texas, I believe) have
what I call "non-toll alerting", where non-toll calls *cannot* be dialed
with the leading 1; free calls *must* be dialed as 7 or 10 digits.

Some areas have "1 means area code follows", that is, 11-digits total.
Often, you can also use 7-digit calling in such areas. 11-digit calls
may be free, and 7 digit calls may be toll, depending on the distance.
Northern California, where I live, is such an area.

I believe that the FCC has ruled that areas with area code overlays
cannot allow 7-digit dialing, to avoid giving advantage to the
established phone company.

And to make it interesting, the rules on cell phones may or may not
follow the rules for landline phones.

And with landline companies following the lead of wireless companies and
offering extended toll-free areas, this means that the dialing pattern
may vary depending on the rate plan on that particular line.
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 7:16:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Joseph claimed:

; >least a half year previous. I don't think the overlays have actually
; >been used yet, as I have yet to see an unfamiliar area code for the
; >region. MA area codes 978, 413 and 508 do not have overlays.
; You evidently do not get out very much if you think that overlay area
; codes are not used in Massachusetts. I know personally people who

I knew they were assigned, I just haven't seen them.

; have 339 numbers in the 781 area and I personally know people in the
; 617 area who have 857 area code numbers. And just FYI 978 has the
; overlay 351, and 508 has 774. 413 is the only Massachusetts area code

I don't recall seeing mention of those. Either I don't remember, I
never saw that info, or they're newer. Any of those three is possible.

; with no overlay. Just why the Mass. PUC allowed Massachusetts to be
; so wasteful with area code resources when they could have overlayed
; one or possibly two area codes over the whole former 617 area is a

I'd guess for the same reason why 617 was split in the first place. Why
take the chance of having to split the overlayed area codes within a
few years, if you have the numberspace to just set them now. And/or,
since the area codes do follow a geographic map, it would be easier
conceptually to just make the overlays follow the same map.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"You, what is going on?" "Haven't you heard? The Earth Alliance just
declared Martial Law." (Amb. Mollari and Minbari, B5 "Point Of No
Return")
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 7:18:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It is alleged that Joseph claimed:

; Until the splits don't have any rationality when you keep making
; smaller and smaller areas. Eventually your city will have multiple
; area codes and any supposed 7 digit advantage will be gone. I'm not
; sure if people are afraid they're going to sprain their fingers
; punching three extra buttons but I am amazed that so many people can
; get bent out of shape about it. If you can't remember three extra
; numbers write it down!

I'm waiting for when we switch to full alphanumeric comm codes.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"You, what is going on?" "Haven't you heard? The Earth Alliance just
declared Martial Law." (Amb. Mollari and Minbari, B5 "Point Of No
Return")
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 8:09:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:15:00 -0400, Isaiah Beard
<sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> chose to add this to the great equation of
life, the universe, and everything:

>Bob Scheurle wrote:
>>
>> We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the
>> most densely-populated state in the country.
>
>Uhm, are you sure of that? I'm in Central New Jersey, area code 732,
>and ten digit dialing has been required for all of our calls since
>mid-2002.
>
>Our local calling area includes area codes 732, 908 and 848. To further
>complicate matters, while MOST people in my area have 732 numbers, not
>ALL numbers in the 732 area code are considered local... some are
>considered regional in-state LD (though having a cell phone as my
>primary line and VoIP as secondary, this makes absolutely no difference
>to me). Likewise, some 908 numbers are local, but some are not. And as
>far as I know 848 is just about all considered local (though 848 numbers
>are still very rare).

Are you sure you're not just dialing 10 digits because of the VoIP? My
father has that and has to dial 10 digits even though 7 will still work for
a regular phone in his area code. (OTOH, he never has to dial 1 for any
area code.)

--
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http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
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Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
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!