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An unbiassed look at the Cleric OoW spells :p

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Anonymous
July 23, 2005 6:42:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*

Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*

Muramite Rune (Level 68)
1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*

Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?


Mheldur 66 Cleric,thinking of deleveling
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 3:09:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?

Never. Mostly pointless line that is beneficial to the cleric only, and in
only limited situations.

> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?

Everytime a tank wants the highest hp total possible without sacrificing AC.

> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?

Doing signets to get into Anguish, let my 3-box team skip large chunks of
some instances.

> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>
> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?

Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care.

> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>
> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>
> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>
> Mheldur 66 Cleric,thinking of deleveling

Where you will have, at various levels:

1. Lower numbers *yawns*
2. Lower numbers *yawns*
3. Lower numbers *yawns*
4. A nuke that nobody uses.
5. Lower numbers *yawns*

Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't
very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are
the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in
their abilities.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 9:17:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:09:20 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
>> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Never. Mostly pointless line that is beneficial to the cleric only, and in
>only limited situations.
>
>> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Everytime a tank wants the highest hp total possible without sacrificing AC.
>
>> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Doing signets to get into Anguish, let my 3-box team skip large chunks of
>some instances.
>
>> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
>> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care.
>
>> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
>> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
>> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>>
>>
>> Mheldur 66 Cleric,thinking of deleveling
>
>Where you will have, at various levels:
>
>1. Lower numbers *yawns*
>2. Lower numbers *yawns*
>3. Lower numbers *yawns*
>4. A nuke that nobody uses.
>5. Lower numbers *yawns*
>
>Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't
>very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are
>the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in
>their abilities.

It's been many months since I looked at the enchanters spell list but
it seems to me that it was the same for chanters, any maybe for all
the classes. All that was happening 66-70 was that my spells were
being upgraded so they were "level-appropriate". For example, instead
of mez being capped at 65, I could mez stuff that was level 68. Does
any class get any startling new abilities in the 66-70 range??
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 9:58:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

murdocj wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:09:20 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>>Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't
>>very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are
>>the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in
>>their abilities.
>
>
> It's been many months since I looked at the enchanters spell list but
> it seems to me that it was the same for chanters, any maybe for all
> the classes. All that was happening 66-70 was that my spells were
> being upgraded so they were "level-appropriate". For example, instead
> of mez being capped at 65, I could mez stuff that was level 68. Does
> any class get any startling new abilities in the 66-70 range??

Mine did, but they were in AA's not spells, and badly needed. Clerics
and chanters needed no power boost (aside from the usual bigger numbers
with the higher level spells)

cheers,
James
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 12:40:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:09:20 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
>> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Never. Mostly pointless line that is beneficial to the cleric only, and in
>only limited situations.

Thought the non-Aegolism line was mostly for dispelling mobs. That
way they didn't lose all their benefits in one dispell of Conviction
or the like.

>
>> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Everytime a tank wants the highest hp total possible without sacrificing AC.
>
>> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Doing signets to get into Anguish, let my 3-box team skip large chunks of
>some instances.
>
>> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
>> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
>
>Clerics don't nuke. Could take all of them away and most wouldn't care.

Some do. I've been in groups where there was a druid as well and I
can tell you that when the druid healed and I went into battle, well,
I had some decent DPS. At 67, with the latest summoned hammer (even
against non-undead), haste, and Reproach, I was out damaging the tank
by a ways.

Of course if I have no backup healer then yea, I rarely nuke. But
it's still nice, especially when solo'ing.

>
>> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
>> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
>> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>>
>>
>> Mheldur 66 Cleric,thinking of deleveling
>
>Where you will have, at various levels:
>
>1. Lower numbers *yawns*
>2. Lower numbers *yawns*
>3. Lower numbers *yawns*
>4. A nuke that nobody uses.
>5. Lower numbers *yawns*
>
>Clerics are a fairly one-dimensional class. Playing a cleric at 40 isn't
>very different from playing a cleric at 70. The upshot is that clerics are
>the undisputed most powerful class, partly because they *are* so focused in
>their abilities.

Their strength lies in keeping others alive to do what they do best.
But I think clerics are more versatile than most think. If you've
ever read some of Monual's tales you'll hear about some non-cleric
like things being done.

~F
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 9:10:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <kbe7e150rurpnmok84lod5s4c41v3esp25@4ax.com>,
Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>For those who dont know Cleric spells Pious Remedy heals
>1990 hps(2100 with Cleric bonus?) for 495 mana.
>Complete heal is 7500 hitpoints for 400 Mana .
>Crits work on Complete Heal too.
>Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster.

(1990 + (1990 * (.25 + .28 + .05))) * 2 = 6288.4.

I still think that's practically a cheal. Even at a
"base" 3144 it's enough to take the tank from 5% to 30%, or a caster
to almost full health. And don't forget that mana preservation foci
work on PR, making the mana cost closer to 420.

The big win here is the cast time. I find myself chaining
this in emergencies, and the extra 40 mana doesn't matter so much right
then. Cheal's great if you *have* 10 seconds :-)
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 1:42:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"the wharf rat" <wrat@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D c0i23$724$1@reader2.panix.com...

> The big win here is the cast time. I find myself chaining
> this in emergencies, and the extra 40 mana doesn't matter so much right
> then. Cheal's great if you *have* 10 seconds :-)
>

Yep, its not the effiency that matter with Pious, its not having a party
wipe cos you only use CH.... SoE I believe are trying to phase out the CH
chains....and replace them with PR chains. Wow.
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 11:20:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-


As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so that
your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster heals. Keep
in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are generally easy to
aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious Remedy can be crit for
7100.

What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing
them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?

__________________________________________________________
Submitted by: Sweetsong
This message was submitted through the Erollisi Marr Forum
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 3:40:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
[snipped list of cleric spells that got upgrades]

Please list the spells for any class that were original and useful. ALL of
them were numbers upgrades, or numbers upgrades on unused spell lines.

Some classes had the added insult that the numbers upgrades weren't even
upgrades in effectiveness, just a required speedbump upgrade so the spell
would affect the mobs we're now fighting.

Enchanters are the ones I know best; previous mez, stun, charm, and pacify
spells just stopped working (because higher-level mobs became the normal
targets) until new spells were acquired that do the exact same
thing on new mobs. Heck, for pacify and charm we had to get new spells just
to have a nerfed version! And two of our most effective lines got dropped
entirely until the June 29 patch.

Imagine if your upgrades were "most of your heal spells don't work on anyone
over L65, the new versions work the same, but on higher-level targets. Except
the new CH, which is the last L70 spell for you and now has a 15 second
cast time and can't crit.

Complaining that your upgrades were uninteresting makes me feel even worse
that my upgrades were either zero-grades or nerfs. But then I get over it,
and realize that I'm still having fun, despite SoE hating me :)  When that
stops, I'll stop playing.

OTGH, some new AAs WERE interesting and useful, and the July 29 patch added
two (boring numbers upgrades, but for good spells) important enchanter spells.
--
Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net <http://www.dagon.net/&gt;
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 5:24:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
news:3p33e1150a9ibfjp9s1v8tvqg4e8t6ts04@4ax.com:

> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>
> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>
> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>
> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>

The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same
lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals
(instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better
debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit
harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 7:58:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <Xns969E4C4B6F07Brichardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4>,
Graeme Faelban <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>Yeah, and when the tank dies 9 seconds into your CHeal, how do you feel
>about that? There is plenty of place for fast casting heals in the game.
>

What's worse is when he dies 9.9 seconds in :-)
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:32:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
<Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:

>
>-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
>
>
>As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so that
>your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster heals. Keep
>in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are generally easy to
>aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious Remedy can be crit for
>7100.
>
>What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing
>them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?

But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.

Mheldur 66 cleric
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:32:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
> >
> >
> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so that
> >your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster heals. Keep
> >in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are generally easy to
> >aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious Remedy can be crit for
> >7100.
> >
> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing
> >them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
>
> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
> HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.

Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You *will*
get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing. =)
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:32:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <gtt9e11ljc4i940gr7iidijnctll3teego@4ax.com>,
Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
>HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.


You mean the level 61 (2? whatever) one? It's like 500 points
less base which is like 800 less after foci etc. That really is enough
to matter in these situations.

HOT won't begin to keep up with an unslowed named at this level.
What I typically see is something like 'Whoops! Add Nasty Noobeater!"
then me chain casting PR until someone gets the thing slowed and I can
do my usual HOT/Cheal routine.

No one uses the 61 spell after they get PR, I mean, I've seen
raids done using nothing but PR on the MT...
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:51:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 25 Jul 2005 13:24:56 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>news:3p33e1150a9ibfjp9s1v8tvqg4e8t6ts04@4ax.com:
>
>> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
>> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
>> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
>> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
>> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
>> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
>> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
>> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>
>> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
>> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>>
>
>The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same
>lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals
>(instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better
>debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit
>harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing.

What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even
worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun
working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the
max level was 65).
Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are
hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older
players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =)

Mheldur 66 Cleric
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:51:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2005 13:24:56 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
> >news:3p33e1150a9ibfjp9s1v8tvqg4e8t6ts04@4ax.com:
> >
> >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
> >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
> >> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
> >> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
> >> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >>
> >> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
> >> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
> >> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >>
> >> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
> >> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >>
> >> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
> >> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
> >> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
> >>
> >
> >The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same
> >lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals
> >(instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better
> >debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit
> >harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing.
>
> What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even
> worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun
> working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the
> max level was 65).

Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70.

> Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are
> hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older
> players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =)

It is far, far, *far* easier for newbies to "catch up" with the older
players now than at any point in Everquest's history after the first week of
release.
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:51:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <cdu9e1t4rm8gqhatg54ch598s7espomvrs@4ax.com>,
Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even
>worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun
>working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the
>max level was 65).

I jumped for joy when I got the OOW HOT. Makes my game. But I can
count the number of times I've had to use placate (70 pacify) since I got
it. Once, :-) in Trial of Subversion. It worked... Stuns? I sometimes
use a stun when soloing. I've tried to use them on casters in group
situations and (just like my nukes) they get resisted so much I stopped
and went back to sit-stand-heal.

If SOE really wanted to spice up the cleric's lives they'd add
a couple of OOW class zones with high level undead mobs. Now *that*
would be fun.

>Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are
>hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older
>players
>

How so? I mean, how so any more than any other expansion? IMHO
OOW made it ***much*** easier for new players to catch up, at least if
they're willing to buy gear in the bazaar or have a few higher level
friends. All that OOW junk, Veil of Vendor Trash, Gloves of Rejected Loot,
you know, all that stuff with 100mana/100HP you can buy for 500 plat...
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:51:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrndea0tk.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>,
Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
>Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70.
>

If you can call "Your target resisted your Shock of Wonder
spell! Again!" working :-)
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:51:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<wrat@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <slrndea0tk.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>,
> Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
> >
> >Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70.
> >
>
> If you can call "Your target resisted your Shock of Wonder
> spell! Again!" working :-)

As someone who has wiped his 3-box team more often due to stuns getting
resisted and mobs gating than due to all other things combined, I
sympathize. Still, it "works". =)
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:52:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:44:47 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
>> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
>> >
>> >
>> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so that
>> >your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster heals. Keep
>> >in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are generally easy to
>> >aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious Remedy can be crit for
>> >7100.
>> >
>> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing
>> >them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
>>
>> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
>> HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.
>
>Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You *will*
>get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing. =)

Weird,I do it all the time.

Mheldur 66 Cleric
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 8:52:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:44:47 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
> ><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
> >> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so that
> >> >your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster heals. Keep
> >> >in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are generally easy to
> >> >aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious Remedy can be crit for
> >> >7100.
> >> >
> >> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not healing
> >> >them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
> >>
> >> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
> >> HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.
> >
> >Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You *will*
> >get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing. =)
>
> Weird,I do it all the time.
>
> Mheldur 66 Cleric

Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times. Hell, I've
been on both ends of the bitching. =)
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 9:21:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
news:slrndea0eg.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:

> <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:44:47 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>>
>> ><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
>> >> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so
>> >> >that your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster
>> >> >heals. Keep in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are
>> >> >generally easy to aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious
>> >> >Remedy can be crit for 7100.
>> >> >
>> >> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not
>> >> >healing them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
>> >>
>> >> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
>> >> HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.
>> >
>> >Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You
>> >*will* get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing.
>> >=)
>>
>> Weird,I do it all the time.
>>
>> Mheldur 66 Cleric
>
> Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times.
> Hell, I've been on both ends of the bitching. =)
>

Do they not stack? Or is it an issue of buff slots? I have never heard
of this issue either.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 9:21:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
> news:slrndea0eg.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:
>
> > <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:44:47 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> ><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
> >> >> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more so
> >> >> >that your MA will die on certain named if you don't use faster
> >> >> >heals. Keep in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms) which are
> >> >> >generally easy to aquire now and the correct healing focus Pious
> >> >> >Remedy can be crit for 7100.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not
> >> >> >healing them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
> >> >>
> >> >> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention the
> >> >> HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.
> >> >
> >> >Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to. You
> >> >*will* get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from landing.
> >> >=)
> >>
> >> Weird,I do it all the time.
> >>
> >> Mheldur 66 Cleric
> >
> > Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times.
> > Hell, I've been on both ends of the bitching. =)
> >
>
> Do they not stack? Or is it an issue of buff slots? I have never heard
> of this issue either.

Purely an issue of buff slots. It's actually *more* of an issue at the
range Mheldur will be playing at, as by the time you're raiding Anguish you
expect all your tanks to have at least a couple extra buff slots.

It's not only a matter of DI either. A mob that dispels *and* has an AE
that must be cured off the MT means that an elixir hitting at the wrong time
can lead to a domino effect of the MT losing one important buff after
another.
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 9:40:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
news:slrndea8r8.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:

> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>> Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
>> news:slrndea0eg.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:
>>
>> > <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:44:47 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
>> >> >> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more
>> >> >> >so that your MA will die on certain named if you don't use
>> >> >> >faster heals. Keep in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms)
>> >> >> >which are generally easy to aquire now and the correct healing
>> >> >> >focus Pious Remedy can be crit for 7100.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not
>> >> >> >healing them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention
>> >> >> the HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.
>> >> >
>> >> >Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to.
>> >> >You *will* get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from
>> >> >landing. =)
>> >>
>> >> Weird,I do it all the time.
>> >>
>> >> Mheldur 66 Cleric
>> >
>> > Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times.
>> > Hell, I've been on both ends of the bitching. =)
>> >
>>
>> Do they not stack? Or is it an issue of buff slots? I have never
>> heard of this issue either.
>
> Purely an issue of buff slots. It's actually *more* of an issue at
> the range Mheldur will be playing at, as by the time you're raiding
> Anguish you expect all your tanks to have at least a couple extra buff
> slots.
>
> It's not only a matter of DI either. A mob that dispels *and* has an
> AE that must be cured off the MT means that an elixir hitting at the
> wrong time can lead to a domino effect of the MT losing one important
> buff after another.
>

At the moment, the number of dispelling targets we are hitting is
minimal, and the tank had better have enough open slots for HoTs firing
during the raid, MGB and otherwise.

I've also noticed that on the few dispelling ones we have been hitting
recently, the buff dispelled is much more random now than it used to be,
for example the dispellers in Tactics on the way to doing RZ/TZ/VZ, they
no longer take off the top buff, it is now random.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 9:40:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
> news:slrndea8r8.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:
>
> > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> >> Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
> >> news:slrndea0eg.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:
> >>
> >> > <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:44:47 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> ><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:20:04 -0500, Sweetsong
> >> >> >> <Sweetsong.1sq67p@erollisimarr-dot-com-forum.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >-Guess you can do the maths yourself,PR is a huge mana waster-
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >As Lief wrote it's not a matter that CH is not godly, but more
> >> >> >> >so that your MA will die on certain named if you don't use
> >> >> >> >faster heals. Keep in mind that with qvic gear (namely arms)
> >> >> >> >which are generally easy to aquire now and the correct healing
> >> >> >> >focus Pious Remedy can be crit for 7100.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >What would be preferable? Healing your tank for 7kish or not
> >> >> >> >healing them at all causing the group to potentially wipe?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> But the 400 mana fast heal would do the job too,not to mention
> >> >> >> the HoTs you can throw on the MT before engaging a boss mob.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Never ever put a HoT on a MT before a boss mob unless told to.
> >> >> >You *will* get bitched out eventually when you block a DI from
> >> >> >landing. =)
> >> >>
> >> >> Weird,I do it all the time.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mheldur 66 Cleric
> >> >
> >> > Just a fair warning. I've seen it happen more than a few times.
> >> > Hell, I've been on both ends of the bitching. =)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Do they not stack? Or is it an issue of buff slots? I have never
> >> heard of this issue either.
> >
> > Purely an issue of buff slots. It's actually *more* of an issue at
> > the range Mheldur will be playing at, as by the time you're raiding
> > Anguish you expect all your tanks to have at least a couple extra buff
> > slots.
> >
> > It's not only a matter of DI either. A mob that dispels *and* has an
> > AE that must be cured off the MT means that an elixir hitting at the
> > wrong time can lead to a domino effect of the MT losing one important
> > buff after another.
> >
>
> At the moment, the number of dispelling targets we are hitting is
> minimal, and the tank had better have enough open slots for HoTs firing
> during the raid, MGB and otherwise.

Another reason, though not as much of an issue, is that a single-target
elixir will block/overwrite a slightly lesser-powered but *much* longer
lasting AE HoT.

> I've also noticed that on the few dispelling ones we have been hitting
> recently, the buff dispelled is much more random now than it used to be,
> for example the dispellers in Tactics on the way to doing RZ/TZ/VZ, they
> no longer take off the top buff, it is now random.

Starting a derail now...

You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I still
keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a mob
dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands and
thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after dispels, all
the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in
between.
July 26, 2005 12:02:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrndea9ji.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...

>
> Starting a derail now...
>
> You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I still
> keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a mob
> dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands and
> thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after dispels, all
> the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in
> between.

There has GOT to be some legitimate explanation for the discrepency.
Because for me its nearly always completely random too.

I keep junk in my top two slots (clicky atk & damage shield) and mobs
skip them as often as not. Just randomly punching holes in my buff
window. If I get hit with a big dispell on a full buff window I'll have
holes.

Sooo....

There are several possibilities:

1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the
ones I fight dispel randomly.

2) There is some formula that's applied to determine which buff slots
get stripped, and in your case it invariably chooses the top two.

a) Perhaps the dispell walks your buff list, and the junk buffs you
happen to use in the first 2 slots are particularly vulnerable to
dispells so it never goes deeper...there's a lot of possible
formulations that could yield something like this.

b) Perhaps there is a static aspect of your character tied to seeding
the random number generator... and for you it just always comes up 1
then 2.

c) Perhaps there is an issue related to a "resist check" that's based on
relative level... perhaps when fighting very high con red raid mobs they
always make the check, so its always your first two. While I fight a lot
more blues - yellows so my buffs often resist the debuff allowing deeper
buffs to try (and fail) to resist being dispelled.

d) Perhaps there is a "resist check" related to, say, Magic resist and
perhaps you have very high MR so all your buffs make the resist check as
it walks your buff list. And then if it reaches the end of the buff list
and still owes you a dispell it just takes the first ones.



I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on
buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind as
often as not.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 12:02:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <slrndea9ji.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
>
> >
> > Starting a derail now...
> >
> > You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I still
> > keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a mob
> > dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands and
> > thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after dispels, all
> > the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in
> > between.
>
> There has GOT to be some legitimate explanation for the discrepency.
> Because for me its nearly always completely random too.
>
> I keep junk in my top two slots (clicky atk & damage shield) and mobs
> skip them as often as not. Just randomly punching holes in my buff
> window. If I get hit with a big dispell on a full buff window I'll have
> holes.
>
> Sooo....
>
> There are several possibilities:
>
> 1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the
> ones I fight dispel randomly.

From the lowliest wizard froggy in Guk to the red-con trash mobs in
Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot in
every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes. =)

> 2) There is some formula that's applied to determine which buff slots
> get stripped, and in your case it invariably chooses the top two.
>
> a) Perhaps the dispell walks your buff list, and the junk buffs you
> happen to use in the first 2 slots are particularly vulnerable to
> dispells so it never goes deeper...there's a lot of possible
> formulations that could yield something like this.

Except that when (and this applies to "d" below as well) I actually get
buffed after a rez without asking, so that I don't have the opportunity to
make sure that my buffs get set up in the right order, I can count on asking
for those buffs that land in my top slots again after my first dispel.

> b) Perhaps there is a static aspect of your character tied to seeding
> the random number generator... and for you it just always comes up 1
> then 2.

Quite possible. Anecdotally unlikely, however. The admonition to raids to
"get clickies up top" before dispelling targets throughout the eras suggests
that the behavior is as it always has been. Personal experience listening
to the people who complain about, using a current dispelling target of mine
as an example, Ture, and the personal experience of listening to those
people (including me) who laugh at them for not having clickies to deal with
it, suggests likewise.

> c) Perhaps there is an issue related to a "resist check" that's based on
> relative level... perhaps when fighting very high con red raid mobs they
> always make the check, so its always your first two. While I fight a lot
> more blues - yellows so my buffs often resist the debuff allowing deeper
> buffs to try (and fail) to resist being dispelled.

I can count on the same behavior from mobs in DoN missions who cast
single-target annul magic as well. I *always* keep junk buffs on top, even
while grinding. Being the default puller 99.9% of the time leads to certain
habits. =)

> d) Perhaps there is a "resist check" related to, say, Magic resist and
> perhaps you have very high MR so all your buffs make the resist check as
> it walks your buff list. And then if it reaches the end of the buff list
> and still owes you a dispell it just takes the first ones.

See above for a related response.

> I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on
> buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind as
> often as not.

I have had instances where buffs seemed to get dispelled out of order. The
unique thing about those instances though, when I had the opportunity to do
so, if I buffed in such a way that my junk buffs landed in those slots, from
then on (until I zoned) I would lose those slots first with every dispel.
It was as though my buff slots had been shuffled up. And when I zoned out,
assuming I didn't manage to die to accomplish zoning, my buffs would end up
rearranged, and, you guessed it, those would be my top slots.

I'm not sure what would cause such a thing, though it does seem to happen
after being killed once or twice in the same zone. It's rare for me, and
not the easiest thing to test with any sort of scientific process.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 12:15:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2005 13:24:56 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>>news:3p33e1150a9ibfjp9s1v8tvqg4e8t6ts04@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>>Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
>>>1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>
>>>Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
>>>1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>
>>>Muramite Rune (Level 68)
>>>1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>
>>>Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
>>>1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>
>>
>>The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same
>>lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals
>>(instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better
>>debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit
>>harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing.
>
>
> What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even
> worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun
> working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the
> max level was 65).
> Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are
> hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older
> players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =)
>
> Mheldur 66 Cleric
>

I can understand a difference of opinion about Omens - I think it's the
best expansion Sony have ever brought out - but worst expansion ever?

You mean to say that DoN *and* GoD are better than it? That I can't
accept, it's just insane.

And yeah as others have said, in terms of newbies 'catching up' ie new
players catching the pack (not single-grouper oldbies catching raiders,
which is another and much larger thread entirely), Omens is one of the
shining stars of Everquest - tons of droppable loot and incredibly good
(the best for single-groupers) quested gear.

cheers,
James
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 12:25:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <29ofr2-l35.ln1@hydra.dagon.net>, Mark Rafn <dagon@dagon.net> wrote:
>
>Imagine if your upgrades were "most of your heal spells don't work on anyone
>over L65, the new versions work the same, but on higher-level targets.


Hey, don't laugh. A problem I have now is that I keep Pious Elixir
loaded, but it won't hold on people lower than 61.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 1:08:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
news:slrndea9ji.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:

> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>> I've also noticed that on the few dispelling ones we have been
>> hitting recently, the buff dispelled is much more random now than it
>> used to be, for example the dispellers in Tactics on the way to doing
>> RZ/TZ/VZ, they no longer take off the top buff, it is now random.
>
> Starting a derail now...
>
> You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I
> still keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of
> times a mob dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the
> thousands and thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs
> after dispels, all the way from Guk to Anguish and everything,
> literally everything, in between.
>

Up until our last couple of runs in Tactics, I would have agreed with you
100%. I kept one junk buff up always, and never once had anything but
that top buff dispelled in tactics. In our last 3 or 4 runs through
tactics, it has been random buffs every single time.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 1:18:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in
news:slrndeale7.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net:

> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on
>> buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind
>> as often as not.
>
> I have had instances where buffs seemed to get dispelled out of order.
> The unique thing about those instances though, when I had the
> opportunity to do so, if I buffed in such a way that my junk buffs
> landed in those slots, from then on (until I zoned) I would lose those
> slots first with every dispel. It was as though my buff slots had been
> shuffled up. And when I zoned out, assuming I didn't manage to die to
> accomplish zoning, my buffs would end up rearranged, and, you guessed
> it, those would be my top slots.
>
> I'm not sure what would cause such a thing, though it does seem to
> happen after being killed once or twice in the same zone. It's rare
> for me, and not the easiest thing to test with any sort of scientific
> process.
>

As I said in another reply, my experience had been identical to yours up
until our last few runs in tactics this past month or so. I put my 9th
coldain ring buff in my top slot, as I always have done in tactics, got
the rest of my buffs, and never once did I have to refresh the ring buff,
but I did have to get new conviction, c6, and a couple of self buffs,
several times during the runs. It was really odd, and I was far from the
only one in the raid complaining about this behavior.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 1:34:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
news:slrndeale7.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net...
> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrndea9ji.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> >
> > >
> > > Starting a derail now...
> > >
> > > You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I
still
> > > keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a
mob
> > > dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands
and
> > > thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after
dispels, all
> > > the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in
> > > between.
> >
> > There has GOT to be some legitimate explanation for the discrepency.
> > Because for me its nearly always completely random too.
> >
> > I keep junk in my top two slots (clicky atk & damage shield) and mobs
> > skip them as often as not. Just randomly punching holes in my buff
> > window. If I get hit with a big dispell on a full buff window I'll have
> > holes.
> >
> > Sooo....
> >
> > There are several possibilities:
> >
> > 1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the
> > ones I fight dispel randomly.
>
> From the lowliest wizard froggy in Guk to the red-con trash mobs in
> Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot
in
> every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes.
=)

Hmm well actually I believe it does change, but it depends on the type of
dispell they cast, or possibly more to do with the era.

For example, any mob that AOE dispells in my experience will take from the
top slot down. Dragons in HoT are an example of this (Dozekar).

Any mob that actually casts SINGLE dispell on you, will remove a random
buff. Frogs in Old Sebilis are an example of this.

Some of the newer AOE dispells may be random also.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 1:34:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<ask.me.for@it.com> wrote:
>
> "Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrndeale7.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net...
> > <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > In article <slrndea9ji.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Starting a derail now...
> > > >
> > > > You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I
> still
> > > > keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a
> mob
> > > > dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands
> and
> > > > thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after
> dispels, all
> > > > the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in
> > > > between.
> > >
> > > There has GOT to be some legitimate explanation for the discrepency.
> > > Because for me its nearly always completely random too.
> > >
> > > I keep junk in my top two slots (clicky atk & damage shield) and mobs
> > > skip them as often as not. Just randomly punching holes in my buff
> > > window. If I get hit with a big dispell on a full buff window I'll have
> > > holes.
> > >
> > > Sooo....
> > >
> > > There are several possibilities:
> > >
> > > 1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the
> > > ones I fight dispel randomly.
> >
> > From the lowliest wizard froggy in Guk to the red-con trash mobs in
> > Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot
> in
> > every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes.
> =)
>
> Hmm well actually I believe it does change, but it depends on the type of
> dispell they cast, or possibly more to do with the era.
>
> For example, any mob that AOE dispells in my experience will take from the
> top slot down. Dragons in HoT are an example of this (Dozekar).
>
> Any mob that actually casts SINGLE dispell on you, will remove a random
> buff. Frogs in Old Sebilis are an example of this.
>
> Some of the newer AOE dispells may be random also.

I'd have to also disagree here. The vast majority of the times that I get
dispelled I'm the only one getting dispelled by some cleric/wizard trash mob
casting annul magic (several variations, dispelling 1, 2, or 4 buffs). The
AE mobs are just the ones where I can get info from a large segment of
people all at once.
July 26, 2005 4:01:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrndeale7.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrndea9ji.76m.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> >
> > >
> > > Starting a derail now...
> > >
> > > You know, that has been said many times over the past *years*, and I still
> > > keep junk buffs in my top 2 slots and can count the number of times a mob
> > > dispel has taken an unplanned buff on one hand, versus the thousands and
> > > thousands of times I've refreshed those top 2 junk buffs after dispels, all
> > > the way from Guk to Anguish and everything, literally everything, in
> > > between.
> >
> > There has GOT to be some legitimate explanation for the discrepency.
> > Because for me its nearly always completely random too.
> >
> > I keep junk in my top two slots (clicky atk & damage shield) and mobs
> > skip them as often as not. Just randomly punching holes in my buff
> > window. If I get hit with a big dispell on a full buff window I'll have
> > holes.
> >
> > Sooo....
> >
> > There are several possibilities:
> >
> > 1) The mobs you fight use dispels that knock them off the top while the
> > ones I fight dispel randomly.
>
> From the lowliest wizard froggy in Guk to the red-con trash mobs in
> Anguish... There aren't many people that can claim to have stepped foot in
> every zone in the game, but I'm one. The dispel behavior never changes. =)

I think its generally accepted even by those of us who are claiming that
the random dispells are a 'current' phenomena. Have you been dispelled
by frog wizard in guk within the last couple years ? :) 

We should assume SOE is changing things on us. And we should assume old
data should be considered unreliable.

> > 2) There is some formula that's applied to determine which buff slots
> > get stripped, and in your case it invariably chooses the top two.
> >
> > a) Perhaps the dispell walks your buff list, and the junk buffs you
> > happen to use in the first 2 slots are particularly vulnerable to
> > dispells so it never goes deeper...there's a lot of possible
> > formulations that could yield something like this.
>
> Except that when (and this applies to "d" below as well) I actually get
> buffed after a rez without asking, so that I don't have the opportunity to
> make sure that my buffs get set up in the right order, I can count on asking
> for those buffs that land in my top slots again after my first dispel.
>
> > b) Perhaps there is a static aspect of your character tied to seeding
> > the random number generator... and for you it just always comes up 1
> > then 2.
>
> Quite possible. Anecdotally unlikely, however. The admonition to raids to
> "get clickies up top" before dispelling targets throughout the eras suggests
> that the behavior is as it always has been.

As others have noted, as I was about to suggest myself, AOE dispels may
be treated differently than other ones, or perhaps its certain proc
dispells vs cast spells... or... or...

Yeah i realize that doesn't line up with your DoN experience.

But the fact is, your experience doesn't match mine, especially in the
last several months. I'm also in the habit of always having my clickies
up top...(because it USED to work) but for the last several months it
hasn't helped in many many places I've gone.

>
> > I don't know... but I can state unequivically that I cannot rely on
> > buffs being dropped out of MY top slots at all. They get left behind as
> > often as not.
>
> I have had instances where buffs seemed to get dispelled out of order. The
> unique thing about those instances though, when I had the opportunity to do
> so, if I buffed in such a way that my junk buffs landed in those slots, from
> then on (until I zoned) I would lose those slots first with every dispel.
> It was as though my buff slots had been shuffled up. And when I zoned out,
> assuming I didn't manage to die to accomplish zoning, my buffs would end up
> rearranged, and, you guessed it, those would be my top slots.

I get "randomly" dispelled so often the game hiccup theory doesn't sound
adequate. That said, I should spend some time analyzing if its always
the same slots that get nailed first in any given zone session.

> I'm not sure what would cause such a thing, though it does seem to happen
> after being killed once or twice in the same zone. It's rare for me, and
> not the easiest thing to test with any sort of scientific process.
>

Its too bad we can't rely on player dispels to gather data.

I'm going to drag a couple alts to skyfire today and fool around I won't
be able to get well rounded data, but chromodracs do dispell with
freakish regularity... not sure if they're on my 'sequential' or
'random' dispell category... but if its random I might be able to get
some data.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 4:53:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:22:01 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> On 25 Jul 2005 13:24:56 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>> >news:3p33e1150a9ibfjp9s1v8tvqg4e8t6ts04@4ax.com:
>> >
>> >> Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
>> >> 1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
>> >> 3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
>> >> 4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
>> >> 6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >>
>> >> Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
>> >> 1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
>> >> 4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >>
>> >> Muramite Rune (Level 68)
>> >> 1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >>
>> >> Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
>> >> 1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>> >> 5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>> >>
>> >
>> >The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same
>> >lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals
>> >(instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better
>> >debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit
>> >harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing.
>>
>> What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even
>> worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun
>> working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the
>> max level was 65).
>
>Sound of Divinity and Shock of Wonder both work up to level 70.

My bad,point taken.

>> Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are
>> hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older
>> players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =)
>
>It is far, far, *far* easier for newbies to "catch up" with the older
>players now than at any point in Everquest's history after the first week of
>release.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 4:58:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:15:44 GMT, James Hicks
<james@doesntlikespam.org> wrote:

>Meldur wrote:
>> On 25 Jul 2005 13:24:56 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>>>news:3p33e1150a9ibfjp9s1v8tvqg4e8t6ts04@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Minor Muramite Rune (Level 66)
>>>>1. Pious Remedy - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>2. Confidence - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>>3. Ward of Valiance - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>>4. Shock of Wonder - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>5. Sun Cloak - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>>6. Symbol of Balikor - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>
>>>>Lesser Muramite Rune (Level 67)
>>>>1. Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>2. Panoply of Vie - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>3. Sermon of Reproach - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>>4. Pious Elixer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>5. Blessing of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>6. Conviction - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>
>>>>Muramite Rune (Level 68)
>>>>1. Sound of Divinity - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>2. Hammer of Reproach - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>3. Pious Light - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>4. Desolate Undead - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>5. Unswerving Hammer - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>
>>>>Greater Muramite Rune (Level 69)
>>>>1. Yaulp VII - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>2. Mark of the Blameless - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>3. Word of Vivification - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>4. Aura of Devotion - Higher numbers *yawns*
>>>>5. Calamity - When was the last time you used this line?
>>>>
>>>
>>>The same is true for most classes, you just get better spells in the same
>>>lines that you already have spells. As a shaman, I get better heals
>>>(instant and over time), better buffs, better DoTs, better nukes, better
>>>debuffs. Nothing terribly exciting, except in that they allow me to hit
>>>harder zones than I could without them, particularly when soloing.
>>
>>
>> What I say - boooring - worst expansion ever,some lines are even
>> worse than their predecessors(Pacify-Harmony line,and only 1 stun
>> working on level 70 mobs,where we had 2 stuns working when the
>> max level was 65).
>> Another terrible effect of all the higher numbers is,that newbies are
>> hurt by it much,making it almost impossible to catch up with the older
>> players,but I guess SOE wants newbies go to WoW,not EQ. =)
>>
>> Mheldur 66 Cleric
>>
>
> I can understand a difference of opinion about Omens - I think it's the
>best expansion Sony have ever brought out - but worst expansion ever?
>
> You mean to say that DoN *and* GoD are better than it? That I can't
>accept, it's just insane.

Yes,GoD better,because no senseless leveling needed.When I said worst
it was refered to the raising of the level cap,for me it made the game
less enjoyable,for one as mentioned I need to do the xp tread mill
again instead of becoming stronger with making AAs,other point
being that there are now a lot of under equipped with no AAs to
speak of level 70s,who are remarkable weaker than my 66 and 67 chars,
but hey they can enter RSS. :p 

>
> And yeah as others have said, in terms of newbies 'catching up' ie new
>players catching the pack (not single-grouper oldbies catching raiders,
>which is another and much larger thread entirely), Omens is one of the
>shining stars of Everquest - tons of droppable loot and incredibly good
>(the best for single-groupers) quested gear.
>
>cheers,
>James
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 5:00:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:40:02 -0700, dagon@dagon.net (Mark Rafn) wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>[snipped list of cleric spells that got upgrades]
>
>Please list the spells for any class that were original and useful. ALL of
>them were numbers upgrades, or numbers upgrades on unused spell lines.
>
>Some classes had the added insult that the numbers upgrades weren't even
>upgrades in effectiveness, just a required speedbump upgrade so the spell
>would affect the mobs we're now fighting.
>
>Enchanters are the ones I know best; previous mez, stun, charm, and pacify
>spells just stopped working (because higher-level mobs became the normal
>targets) until new spells were acquired that do the exact same
>thing on new mobs. Heck, for pacify and charm we had to get new spells just
>to have a nerfed version! And two of our most effective lines got dropped
>entirely until the June 29 patch.
>
>Imagine if your upgrades were "most of your heal spells don't work on anyone
>over L65, the new versions work the same, but on higher-level targets. Except
>the new CH, which is the last L70 spell for you and now has a 15 second
>cast time and can't crit.
>
>Complaining that your upgrades were uninteresting makes me feel even worse
>that my upgrades were either zero-grades or nerfs. But then I get over it,
>and realize that I'm still having fun, despite SoE hating me :)  When that
>stops, I'll stop playing.
>
>OTGH, some new AAs WERE interesting and useful, and the July 29 patch added
>two (boring numbers upgrades, but for good spells) important enchanter spells.

Well,I talked about Clerics cause one of my 2 mains is one,I could
have written the same rant about Rangers.

Mheldur 66 Cleric
Uland 67 Ranger
!