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Adastraea On Fire

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Anonymous
August 8, 2005 5:26:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Not just burning through AA's in the Plane of Fire, either, though
there has been some of that, too. There's been time spent in
Tirrannun's Delve and the Ascent doing DoN progression tasks,
and Tipt runs for Kod'Taz access. But most of all Adas is burning
through flags: HoHb, Mith Marr, Arlyxir, Jiva, TZ. And it's mainly
thanks to her new guild, Saviours.
This is the server merge, finally coming through to make hard-
charging high-end raiding a viable play style for me. It was never
an option back on TP, but Bertox had Saviours, a guild that raids
on MY time, 9am Eastern. Up until now, I had rarely gotten up
that early, usually playing after work to 3am and sleeping until
10 or 11, which turned out to be the aboslute worst schedule in
terms of finding groups; nobody else played these hours, not
enough to form regular groups. Ditching the late night futility
of searching for groups when prime time raiders were going to
bed and Austrailian guilds were still getting up, I was able to join
an odd-hours early-day guild that has hopes of breaching Time,
and of farming Time-quality loot in various places.
We farm Sol Ro minis. We took down Rydda'Dar with 32 people;
I wouldn't have thought that was possible, though some of us
do have Time and OOW gear. They got Adas her Warrior trial at
long last (they call it "Save the children"; apparently the villiagers
you have to protect from the evil-race warriors are like children).
We went on to take down Lord Mithaniel Marr himself with
35 people. Not the cleanest fight, either; we were able to pull
off one of his protectors for single kill, but the other had to be
offtanked and killed while holding LMM in place. And one of the
nearby lulled wrulons had been accidentaly aggroed and had to
be killed, so it popped during the fight and slowed us down with
diversion of DPS to kill it. But we did it, in the end.
There's been some other backflagging here and there, and will
likely be more. Adas now only needs Rizlona for access to Sol Ro's
chamber. Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
I'm sure we could take down VZ and TZ as well. I had done VZ,
and now needed TZ; but fortunately I caught another open raid
for him, so now Adas is ready for the Warlord. Two tries lately
with open raid numbers around 60ish; first time we were sloppy
pulling the triggers and had too many deaths due to repops,
causing our surviving chanter to go OOM keeping the triggers
mezzed while clerics rezzed and rebuffed, and they were still too
low on mana for the fight and couldn't get even one heal off on
our fake-VZ tank. Last night's attempt was much better; the raid
leader had adjusted his strategy, clearing to the north trigger and
having a chanter dedicated to keeping him with us, mezzed, while
we cleared to the south trigger, killed him with no fuss, and then
the mezzed one to start the event. Fake RZ posed no real problem,
and we rezzed and rebuffed quickly for the pit fight; in the pit,
we got RZtW down to 50% when the kiters proved unable to
stay ahead of the adds, and only down to 25% when we wiped
(Adas was able to Abscond when it seemed she was the most
major standing DPS).
Hopefully we will get him down sometime in the next few weeks;
either with this open raider, or a Svaiours-sponsored alliance or
open raid. For now, we concentrate on more suitable targets of
opportunity. A bard mob in Castle Mistmoore gives out Time-
quality loot; on Saturday we farmed two Bloodied Gypsy Lutes
so we can do her at least twice., along with a bunch of bones for
the halfling at the zone entrance. Kod'Taz and the zones beyond
also beckons, so we've been running Tipt trials; Adas has had bad
luck so far with three failed attempts, but will likely get it done this
week. (Three of the successful runs lately dropped an nice int-caster
bracer that would be an upgrade for Adas, but no int-casters were
on those runs, oddly.) We've explored Ikkins raid 1, capable of
dropping the best shield Adas is ever likely to get. She will, of course,
be one of the last to get one, if she does, but there's no hurry.
She's still a Phase 2 recruit, with membership vote weeks away.
I've invested $170 in plat purchases to upgrade her gear, buying
raidiant crystals in the Bazaar to make DoN gear available. She
will only bid DKP on REALLY good upgrades well down the road.
If she's accepted as a full member, she has a home among poeple
like herself, playing at odd hours, and a place among the high-end
raiding life of Everquest. If she ends up on the street...Azeroth had
better watch out. I'll be pissed.

EJH

On Bertoxxulous:
[70 Wizard] Adastraea Starwind (High Elf) of Erollisi Marr <Saviours>
[61 Druid] Rabotev Startree (Wood Elf) of Tunare
[45 Warrior] Gruggoredil Dullwit (Barbarian) of Rallos Zek
[50 Monk] Tosev Starfist (human) of Quellious
[48 Shadow Knight] Neuveniu Sinstorm (Dark Elf) of Innoruuk
[50 Cleric] Celune (High Elf) of Tunare
[42 Beastlord] Grukyn (Vah Shir)

On Drinal:
[24 Bard] Greban (Vah Shir)
[32 Magician] Cadwen (High Elf)

On Firiona Vie:
[32 Cleric] Adastra Peraspera (High Elf) of Tunare

On Quellious:
[31 Wizard] Phrogment (Froglok) of Mithaniel Marr
[35 Ranger] Keaolasi (Wood Elf) of Tunare
[3 Paladin] Caeinye (High Elf) of Tunare

More about : adastraea fire

Anonymous
August 8, 2005 6:15:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:

> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.

The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 11:26:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
>@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
>> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>
>The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
>not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
>big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.

Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
we were told by SOE.
I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
rhythm.

Meldur
Related resources
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 11:26:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
> >@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
> >
> >> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
> >> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
> >
> >The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
> >not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
> >big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
>
> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
> we were told by SOE.

You don't actually know how the 85/backflag mechanics work do you? =P

> I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
> rhythm.

Nor have any concept of the corporate world...
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 11:26:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
news:vg4ff1p5tps3dhsn26kd024o77db02fj5a@4ax.com:

> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in
>>news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142 @newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>>> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber access. Not
>>> so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>>
>>The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it
>>is not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it,
>>it's not a big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
>
> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
> we were told by SOE.
> I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
> rhythm.
>

Well, you certainly are entitled to your opinions, however, the 85/15
rule has made it less than totally mind numbingly tedious to backflag
people who join our guild, and as such, despite it's shortcomings, is
quite welcome from the standpoint of a guild that has had to deal with
backflagging on several occasions.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
August 8, 2005 11:26:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrndfdt01.6s5.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> > On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> > >"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
> > >@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
> > >
> > >> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
> > >> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
> > >
> > >The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
> > >not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
> > >big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
> >
> > Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
> > IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
> > finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
> > we were told by SOE.
>
> You don't actually know how the 85/backflag mechanics work do you? =P

/shrug

Faned, are you a part of the open raid crowd? Do you actually know what
you are talking about here?

The 85/15 mechanic is HEAVILY used (abused?) by open-raiders. Half the
casuals I know have obtained several of their flags thanks to it. Hell
I'd be surprised if a PoP open raid has ever been run that didn't 85 a
good number of people in.

Want to join the TT open raid? Don't have your pre-reqs... no worries
we'll 85 as many of you in as we can!

These days its easier to get flagged by haphazardly joining as many open
raids as you can 'legitimately access' and getting 85'd in to as many
others as possible then it is to progress with your (obviusly not
anywhere near endgame) guild.

Getting a bunch of random players leap-frogged in everytime some uber
wants to flag an alt is hardly what the 85/15 backflagging mechanic was
intended for.

> > I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
> > rhythm.
>
> Nor have any concept of the corporate world...

Yeah. Sony will simply gradually raise the monthly rate to 39.95 per
month, so that we pay for an expansion each month and they don't have to
bother actually making one. :p 
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 11:26:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <slrndfdt01.6s5.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> > <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> > > On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> > > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
> > > >@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
> > > >
> > > >> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
> > > >> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
> > > >
> > > >The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
> > > >not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
> > > >big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
> > >
> > > Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
> > > IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
> > > finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
> > > we were told by SOE.
> >
> > You don't actually know how the 85/backflag mechanics work do you? =P
>
> /shrug
>
> Faned, are you a part of the open raid crowd? Do you actually know what
> you are talking about here?

No, because the very first "open raid" of any magnitude I ever saw happened
within the past month. Rodcet Nife wasn't a very "open" server.

And yes, because I've done all that content and am very familiar with the
changes, as they had a major impact on raiding guilds.

> The 85/15 mechanic is HEAVILY used (abused?) by open-raiders. Half the
> casuals I know have obtained several of their flags thanks to it. Hell
> I'd be surprised if a PoP open raid has ever been run that didn't 85 a
> good number of people in.
>
> Want to join the TT open raid? Don't have your pre-reqs... no worries
> we'll 85 as many of you in as we can!

So? From what I hear, other servers have had open flagging raids since long
before the changes were put in place. Most of the zones those flags
originally gave access to have long been opened up to everyone of the
requisite level. The flags themselves have minimal rewards unless you have
the whole set. If you can get the whole set through only "open raids"...
more power to ya, and you should join a raiding guild because you obviously
have the time to do so. =P

> These days its easier to get flagged by haphazardly joining as many open
> raids as you can 'legitimately access' and getting 85'd in to as many
> others as possible then it is to progress with your (obviusly not
> anywhere near endgame) guild.

No, it isn't easier. It's easier to get "some flags", but it isn't easier
to "progress". Elementals/Time were designed, even after the backflagging
changes, to provide some definite roadblocks that would require dedicated
cooperation to pass. Even getting "just" the Time flag requires 36
"hardcore" (mentality, not necessarily gear), and probably more like 50 of
the people that would be on your average "open raid". Actually getting the
flags for the elementals, doing it the "easy" way, still requires the
killing of the four gods (ironically, a far harder thing to accomplish than
to get elemental access the old "hard" way).

> Getting a bunch of random players leap-frogged in everytime some uber
> wants to flag an alt is hardly what the 85/15 backflagging mechanic was
> intended for.

I'm not sure I comprehend what you're saying here. If you'll re-word, I'll
gladly respond. I don't wanna go off on a tangent that isn't actually what
you intended to say though.

> > > I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
> > > rhythm.
> >
> > Nor have any concept of the corporate world...
>
> Yeah. Sony will simply gradually raise the monthly rate to 39.95 per
> month, so that we pay for an expansion each month and they don't have to
> bother actually making one. :p 

Now *that* is a far more likely scenario, and shows a comprehension of the
corporate world. =)
August 9, 2005 12:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrndfe23f.6s5.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrndfdt01.6s5.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> > > <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> > > > On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> > > > <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
> > > > >@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
> > > > >> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
> > > > >
> > > > >The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
> > > > >not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
> > > > >big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
> > > >
> > > > Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
> > > > IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
> > > > finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
> > > > we were told by SOE.
> > >
> > > You don't actually know how the 85/backflag mechanics work do you? =P
> >
> > /shrug
> >
> > Faned, are you a part of the open raid crowd? Do you actually know what
> > you are talking about here?
>
> No, because the very first "open raid" of any magnitude I ever saw happened
> within the past month. Rodcet Nife wasn't a very "open" server.
>
> And yes, because I've done all that content and am very familiar with the
> changes, as they had a major impact on raiding guilds.

I'm just pointing out that while your familiar with the changes
themselves, you really only have seen how they affected raiding guilds.
(Positively of course, by reducing backflagging obstacles/tedium.)

> > The 85/15 mechanic is HEAVILY used (abused?) by open-raiders. Half the
> > casuals I know have obtained several of their flags thanks to it. Hell
> > I'd be surprised if a PoP open raid has ever been run that didn't 85 a
> > good number of people in.
> >
> > Want to join the TT open raid? Don't have your pre-reqs... no worries
> > we'll 85 as many of you in as we can!
>
> So? From what I hear, other servers have had open flagging raids since long
> before the changes were put in place.

Yes, but the 85/15 rule has smoothed out the issues getting people
deeper in.

> Most of the zones those flags
> originally gave access to have long been opened up to everyone of the
> requisite level.

Not quite the same as having the flags though.

> The flags themselves have minimal rewards unless you have
> the whole set. If you can get the whole set through only "open raids"...
> more power to ya, and you should join a raiding guild because you obviously
> have the time to do so. =P

That's arguably the best argument in your favour. If it was *that* easy
to get time flagged, given how long PoP and the 85/15 rule have been
around why AREN'T there more open time raids. :) 

> > These days its easier to get flagged by haphazardly joining as many open
> > raids as you can 'legitimately access' and getting 85'd in to as many
> > others as possible then it is to progress with your (obviusly not
> > anywhere near endgame) guild.
>
> No, it isn't easier. It's easier to get "some flags", but it isn't easier
> to "progress". Elementals/Time were designed, even after the backflagging
> changes, to provide some definite roadblocks that would require dedicated
> cooperation to pass. Even getting "just" the Time flag requires 36
> "hardcore" (mentality, not necessarily gear), and probably more like 50 of
> the people that would be on your average "open raid". Actually getting the
> flags for the elementals, doing it the "easy" way, still requires the
> killing of the four gods (ironically, a far harder thing to accomplish than
> to get elemental access the old "hard" way).

We agree again. Its easier to get some, but apparently not to
"progress", as we STILL don't have frequent open time raids that I'm
aware of.

> > Getting a bunch of random players leap-frogged in everytime some uber
> > wants to flag an alt is hardly what the 85/15 backflagging mechanic was
> > intended for.
>
> I'm not sure I comprehend what you're saying here. If you'll re-word, I'll
> gladly respond. I don't wanna go off on a tangent that isn't actually what
> you intended to say though.

I'm saying that often when an Time+ player wants to get an alt pop
flagged, his guild won't do it, but he usually can put together a group
of guildies to be the core, host an open raid for the bulk, and often
they 85/15 a bunch of that "bulk". The 85/15 wasn't intended for that.

And I beleive its detrimental to the guilds that are taking advantage of
it. It gets players "ahead of themselves". They don't want to progress
with their guild because they've leapfrogged a few raids ahead.

I'd have to agree with you that they aren't leapfrogging all the way to
Time, but I think the disruption of having your guildmates constantly
leapfrogging the lower tier flags undermines the guilds ability to move
as a cohesive unit, and actually slows the guild down as a whole.
Particularly as the players being leapfrogged aren't really learning the
event, and tend to become dependant on the 'uber' cores that frequently
run those raids. Ie... a couple experienced and geared Anguish players
in key raid roles is quite different than pre-elementals in those roles.

For a number of these raids, I'd give the open raids better odds of
success than a young guild raid... simply because the open raids are
often run be people who -know- them, and tanked by much better equipped
players than a young guild can field. I beleive this is a destructive
force to young guilds, as it rewards opportunistic individual
advancement with random groups more than building a competent cohesive
guild... at least in the short term. But if you destroy a guilds short
term it won't have a long term.

Admittedly even without 85/15 players could still progress and leave
their guilds behind by joining open raids they are flagged for, but the
disruption is less, and the advantage is less. And even if it hasn't
come to pass YET, their is the theoretical possibility they can leapfrog
all the way to Time. The 85/15 encourages self-destructive play style.

> > > > I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
> > > > rhythm.
> > >
> > > Nor have any concept of the corporate world...
> >
> > Yeah. Sony will simply gradually raise the monthly rate to 39.95 per
> > month, so that we pay for an expansion each month and they don't have to
> > bother actually making one. :p 
>
> Now *that* is a far more likely scenario, and shows a comprehension of the
> corporate world. =)
>
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 12:49:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > Getting a bunch of random players leap-frogged in everytime some uber
> > > wants to flag an alt is hardly what the 85/15 backflagging mechanic was
> > > intended for.
> >
> > I'm not sure I comprehend what you're saying here. If you'll re-word, I'll
> > gladly respond. I don't wanna go off on a tangent that isn't actually what
> > you intended to say though.
>
> I'm saying that often when an Time+ player wants to get an alt pop
> flagged, his guild won't do it, but he usually can put together a group
> of guildies to be the core, host an open raid for the bulk, and often
> they 85/15 a bunch of that "bulk". The 85/15 wasn't intended for that.

The Time flag is fairly useless unless you actually plan on raiding Time.
The backflagging, as currently implemented, means that raiders who want alts
Time-flagged will likely be raiding Time with their guild already, and as
such that is how they will get their alts flagged. A raider who is past
Time, whose guild never raids Time anymore, won't have much reason or desire
to have an alt Time-flagged.

I think the change actually lessened the chances of the scenario you
postulate, at least with regards to Time itself. I can see pickup raids on
Fennin Ro for Fire access happening as you describe, but that's about the
extent of it.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:37:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:52:08 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>> >"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142
>> >@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>> >
>> >> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber
>> >> access. Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>> >
>> >The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it is
>> >not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it, it's not a
>> >big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
>>
>> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
>> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
>> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
>> we were told by SOE.
>
>You don't actually know how the 85/backflag mechanics work do you? =P

So its not true you can be 85/15ed into time,get a permanent flag
there skipping all the lower tiers pop progression?
What about KT flag?I think I dont need to go into details about this
as you are so well informed about backflagging.

>> I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
>> rhythm.
>
>Nor have any concept of the corporate world...

But SOE has,thats why they have running half the servers now than 2
years ago,lol.

Meldur
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:37:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
news:u3gff11dln5nvjmq5ulmcf5cr5hc6rcdqr@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:52:08 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
>><Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>>> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in
>>> >news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142 @newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>>> >
>>> >> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber access.
>>> >> Not so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>>> >
>>> >The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers,
>>> >it is not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get
>>> >it, it's not a big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro
>>> >chambers.
>>>
>>> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
>>> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
>>> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as we
>>> were told by SOE.
>>
>>You don't actually know how the 85/backflag mechanics work do you? =P
>
> So its not true you can be 85/15ed into time,get a permanent flag
> there skipping all the lower tiers pop progression?

Yes, it is true. You also do not get the charm upgrades nor the free AAs
involved in going through the progression. Being flagged for time is
pretty useless however unless you are in a guild that raids time, or have
an active time raiding pickup pool of players. An individual player that
is alternate backflagged for Time will not allow said player to "finish"
the expansion faster, he still has to join a guild that is actively
raiding time. The point behind allowing this was to allow raiding guilds
to flag unflagged members without having to actually go through all of
the progression each time. An unguilded time flagged character will not
actually be able to do anything in Time, as the content there is all raid
content.

What they did for the individual player, was change it so that one
unflagged character can be gimped into a zone with 5 flagged players in a
group. Thus, allowing unflagged characters to have a chance to play in
those zones. They cannot get flagged for the zone that way however, as
the alternate flagging method generally requires a raid killing the boss
mob of the zone in question.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:42:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 8 Aug 2005 18:16:11 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>news:vg4ff1p5tps3dhsn26kd024o77db02fj5a@4ax.com:
>
>> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in
>>>news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142 @newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>>>
>>>> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber access. Not
>>>> so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>>>
>>>The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it
>>>is not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it,
>>>it's not a big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
>>
>> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
>> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
>> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
>> we were told by SOE.
>> I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
>> rhythm.
>>
>
>Well, you certainly are entitled to your opinions,

Yes I am,I only expect the worst from SOE,every decision they make is
only ruled by how can they squeeze the last cent out of their
customers,but that is not how you run a succesful game,a game with
longievity needs some spirit and love from the designers,things SOE
has absolutly no idea of.

Meldur
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:42:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
news:o kgff1tca3t1o1jhmubjqn6ib1eh0f9rfc@4ax.com:

> On 8 Aug 2005 18:16:11 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>>news:vg4ff1p5tps3dhsn26kd024o77db02fj5a@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in
>>>>news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142 @newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>>>>
>>>>> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber access. Not
>>>>> so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>>>>
>>>>The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it
>>>>is not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it,
>>>>it's not a big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
>>>
>>> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
>>> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
>>> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
>>> we were told by SOE.
>>> I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
>>> rhythm.
>>>
>>
>>Well, you certainly are entitled to your opinions,
>
> Yes I am,I only expect the worst from SOE,every decision they make is
> only ruled by how can they squeeze the last cent out of their
> customers,but that is not how you run a succesful game,a game with
> longievity needs some spirit and love from the designers,things SOE
> has absolutly no idea of.
>

I am not about to disagree with you regarding the direction SoE has taken
in general with EQ for some time now, although I would disagree on
certain points, such as the 85/15. SoE has changed the game a lot, and
for the most part, for the worse, not for the better, however, right now,
it still seems to be the best choice out there, at least for me. Given
that you still play, I have to assume the same is true for you.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
August 9, 2005 5:22:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <slrndfeap0.6s5.faned@wyld.qx.net>, faned@wyld.qx.net says...
> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > Getting a bunch of random players leap-frogged in everytime some uber
> > > > wants to flag an alt is hardly what the 85/15 backflagging mechanic was
> > > > intended for.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I comprehend what you're saying here. If you'll re-word, I'll
> > > gladly respond. I don't wanna go off on a tangent that isn't actually what
> > > you intended to say though.
> >
> > I'm saying that often when an Time+ player wants to get an alt pop
> > flagged, his guild won't do it, but he usually can put together a group
> > of guildies to be the core, host an open raid for the bulk, and often
> > they 85/15 a bunch of that "bulk". The 85/15 wasn't intended for that.
>
> The Time flag is fairly useless unless you actually plan on raiding Time.
> The backflagging, as currently implemented, means that raiders who want alts
> Time-flagged will likely be raiding Time with their guild already, and as
> such that is how they will get their alts flagged. A raider who is past
> Time, whose guild never raids Time anymore, won't have much reason or desire
> to have an alt Time-flagged.

/shrug

Your desire to frame things in terms of usefulness is off the mark.

Your right, of course, that the Time Flag, or the VT key, or any other
endgame status symbols from various expansions are 'useless' unless you
actively raid those zones, but that doesn't matter in the least.

In practical terms GM smithing is generally useless once someone in your
guild is a GM smith. Its invariably more efficient to just use them.
Ditto the other tradeskills. And yet people still pursue these flags and
symbols and trophies in droves just for their own sake, not for their
usefulness. Or maybe perhaps there are that many people who are deluded
into thinking that if they can just get to Vex Thall or Time or GM
Smithing or whatever that it will actually be 'useful'.

> I think the change actually lessened the chances of the scenario you
> postulate, at least with regards to Time itself. I can see pickup raids on
> Fennin Ro for Fire access happening as you describe, but that's about the
> extent of it.

I tend to agree. But I'm not concerned about pickup raids in time for
loot. I'm concerned about people disrupting their own guilds progression
by leapfrogging around on the backs of others. I'm curious about how
pre-elemental guilds in general are faring in terms of progression. Its
very hard for a guild to "progress" through raid content right now as a
unit because its so easy for individuals to leapfrog into higher level
guilds.

Think about it this way. You as a high end guild hate repetively going
back and backflagging members. Back when the population was thriving you
set flag requirements and refused to look at people too far below you.
Then as the population waned you had to start taking people farther down
the chain and catching them up... this was tedious so you got the 85/15
mechanics. Great. Problem solved.

The trouble is not all the so-called "feeder guilds" want to be feeder
guilds. But the ease at which *individuals* can currently advance
through a significant chunk of PoP prevents them from retaining people.
Between an individuals ability to get 85'd in to on open raids and the
ability of guilds they are apping to get them up to speed quickly I'm
suggesting its making it virtually impossible for new young guilds at
earlier stages of progression to retain talent.

I know of at least a few guilds who seem permanently stuck in early pop
because members keep leap frogging to higher guilds. I'd be a fool to
blame that entirely on gimping but it is a definate factor.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 6:09:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d6146139c05b254989c63@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net>,
42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>The 85/15 mechanic is HEAVILY used (abused?) by open-raiders. Half the
>casuals I know have obtained several of their flags thanks to it.

Oh, the horror!
August 9, 2005 12:20:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <dd939d$bf9$1@reader2.panix.com>, wrat@panix.com says...
> In article <MPG.1d6146139c05b254989c63@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net>,
> 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >The 85/15 mechanic is HEAVILY used (abused?) by open-raiders. Half the
> >casuals I know have obtained several of their flags thanks to it.
>
> Oh, the horror!

No. The so-called 'horror' is the damage its doing to guilds trying to
do pop progression. And even then I wouldn't call it 'horror'.

Try "Oh, the annoyance!"

;) 
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 3:55:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d6207353a82522b989c68@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net>,
42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>No. The so-called 'horror' is the damage its doing to guilds trying to
>do pop progression.
>

Well, I don't understand that at all.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 6:58:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 8 Aug 2005 21:42:38 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>news:o kgff1tca3t1o1jhmubjqn6ib1eh0f9rfc@4ax.com:
>
>> On 8 Aug 2005 18:16:11 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote in
>>>news:vg4ff1p5tps3dhsn26kd024o77db02fj5a@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On 8 Aug 2005 14:15:02 GMT, Graeme Faelban
>>>> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Eric J. Hawman" <ejhawman@ameritech.net> wrote in
>>>>>news:A4JJe.214$Ci7.142 @newssvr31.news.prodigy.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Invictvs assured me killing Sol Ro would grant chamber access. Not
>>>>>> so, it turns out; it's a very unforgiving flag.
>>>>>
>>>>>The flag is not needed for anything but access to Sol Ro chambers, it
>>>>>is not required for elemental access, so, if you don't ever get it,
>>>>>it's not a big deal, as you can be 85/15ed into Sol Ro chambers.
>>>>
>>>> Sure,more power to the lamers,I see open time raids now. *sigh*
>>>> IMHO this awful 85/15 rule only has one purpose - to make players
>>>> finish expansions faster,and not to help guilds backflagging as
>>>> we were told by SOE.
>>>> I wonder when they will begin to release expansions in a weekly
>>>> rhythm.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well, you certainly are entitled to your opinions,
>>
>> Yes I am,I only expect the worst from SOE,every decision they make is
>> only ruled by how can they squeeze the last cent out of their
>> customers,but that is not how you run a succesful game,a game with
>> longievity needs some spirit and love from the designers,things SOE
>> has absolutly no idea of.
>>
>
>I am not about to disagree with you regarding the direction SoE has taken
>in general with EQ for some time now, although I would disagree on
>certain points, such as the 85/15. SoE has changed the game a lot, and
>for the most part, for the worse, not for the better, however, right now,
>it still seems to be the best choice out there, at least for me. Given
>that you still play, I have to assume the same is true for you.

Yes,there is still the old(er) world content,imagine EQ without it.
Sometimes I am thinking about going back to UO.
Too bad the WoW community is so...beyond all standards and
childish,the game itself looks pretty interesting,what me drove
away were the message boards and what was tolerated there
by Blizzard.

Meldur
!