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Multi-boxing method

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Anonymous
August 10, 2005 2:28:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Ok. I've searched and seen posts bragging about WinEQ, EQWindows and EQ
Play Nice. Heck, I even found references calling those utilities
unnecessary using the Windows Application Compatability Toolkit.

All I want to do is 2-box on one PC (P4/3.0, 1GB PC3200 Dual-Channel DDR,
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB). I plan to run each instance of EQ from a
seperate EQ directorie with the second instance having all eye candy and
sound turned off. I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that
covers the whole screen) and be able to switch between the two of them
instantly.

How can I accomplish this?

If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?

Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
MaxBackgroundFrameRate?

I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin

More about : multi boxing method

Anonymous
August 10, 2005 2:28:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
> Ok. I've searched and seen posts bragging about WinEQ, EQWindows and EQ
> Play Nice. Heck, I even found references calling those utilities
> unnecessary using the Windows Application Compatability Toolkit.
>
> All I want to do is 2-box on one PC (P4/3.0, 1GB PC3200 Dual-Channel DDR,
> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB). I plan to run each instance of EQ from a
> seperate EQ directorie with the second instance having all eye candy and
> sound turned off. I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that
> covers the whole screen) and be able to switch between the two of them
> instantly.
>
> How can I accomplish this?
>
> If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?
>
> Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
> MaxBackgroundFrameRate?
>
> I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.

The answer to all your wants is in wineq, but only the paid version. The
"fake" full screen mode is exactly what you're looking for, disabled in the
free version. Has some other neat modes, but I much prefer the full screen
alt-tabbing myself too. It has another benefit for 2-boxing in the way it
can turn off the background window's rendering. Makes a huge difference if
you want to keep your resolution high.

I'd pay for it if it were a one-time purchase, but it's a subscription, and
far too large of a percentage of what I'm paying for EQ for my cheap ass to
pay.

www.lavishsoft.com
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 2:44:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor
<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>How can I accomplish this?

It won't be possible to 2 box both and stay in full screen mode. You
can use windowed mode and have it at max screen size to give an
appearance of full screen.

>If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?

I've only used Win XP's switching with App Compatibility installed
since I usually 2 boxes using 2 separate PCs. Someone would probably
have better idea what works the best.

>Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
>MaxBackgroundFrameRate?

It does make a difference. I'd suggest lowering the frame rate to
something like 25 or 30 for main and lower for secondary and depth as
well to minimum.

>I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.

It's often easier to 2 box using separate computer so you don't have
to worry about switching between windows while in the middle of heated
battle. In the past I've used the main for main character like my 65
Beast while left the secondary to someone like shammy or cleric with
hotkeys set to /g announcing intentions and then casting spell as
needed. So I'd only need to hit the F key to target the player for
single target spell and then cast the healing spell or target mob and
drop slow and malo spells and send pets out.

It will be hard at first regardless of the 2 boxing methods you use
but after a while it gets easier. And if you try to 3 box, it's even
more challenging than 2. Same with 4, 5, even 6 and beyond. I don't
know if anyone tried to multi-box more than 6 at once. It'd be a kick
if someone can successfully 18-box their way through the hedge maze.
:) 

My brother is a multi-boxing veteran for almost 5 years now and when
he plays just one, he complains a lot because he's not used to it LOL.
He did 6 box once to level a group in Velk's and he hated that.
Mostly he just 2 boxes either SK or monk with his shammy.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Related resources
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 4:30:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Impmon wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor
> <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:


> And if you try to 3 box, it's even
> more challenging than 2. Same with 4, 5, even 6 and beyond. I don't
> know if anyone tried to multi-box more than 6 at once. It'd be a kick
> if someone can successfully 18-box their way through the hedge maze.

Ask any old Morell-Thule (now E-Marr) player abour Sunmoon. The guy
regularly 12-boxed. I don't know if he ever tried to play more than
just 6 at a time but he often had 2 groups logged in. He had his own
guild: Evil Raiders. (E-Bay Raiders). People often speculated about
what their guild chat must be like =)

Sunmoon spent a lot of time farming in BoT before he got in real
trouble. People complained about his incessant training and ganking
for well over a year. He finally quit when a few of his toons were
banned. the guy was a real piece of work. He once screwed up a ring
war by killing all the Dwarves apparently just out of spite.

I could go on and on about what a punk this guy was.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 11:34:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Rumbledor" <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADB1B24AAE2Rumbledorhotmailcom@216.148.227.77...
> Ok. I've searched and seen posts bragging about WinEQ, EQWindows and EQ
> Play Nice. Heck, I even found references calling those utilities
> unnecessary using the Windows Application Compatability Toolkit.
>
> All I want to do is 2-box on one PC (P4/3.0, 1GB PC3200 Dual-Channel DDR,
> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB). I plan to run each instance of EQ from a
> seperate EQ directorie with the second instance having all eye candy and
> sound turned off. I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that
> covers the whole screen) and be able to switch between the two of them
> instantly.
>
> How can I accomplish this?
>
> If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?
>
> Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
> MaxBackgroundFrameRate?
>
> I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.
>
> --
> Rumble
> "Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
> -- Benjamin Franklin

Its been about 9 months since I played EQ, so this might be wrong, but....
I found I could 2 box fine using eqwindows (wineq charges money) and having
just the one install directory.
Didnt need to run eqplaynice or disable sound or anything else, but I did
run them both in windowed mode (I think this is the only option with
eqwindows)

Your machine appears slightly higher end than mine, so I doubt you would
have any problems doing the same.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 12:52:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Faned" <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote in message
news:slrndfhinv.766.faned@wyld.qx.net...
<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
> Ok. I've searched and seen posts bragging about WinEQ, EQWindows and EQ
> Play Nice. Heck, I even found references calling those utilities
> unnecessary using the Windows Application Compatability Toolkit.
>
> All I want to do is 2-box on one PC (P4/3.0, 1GB PC3200 Dual-Channel DDR,
> ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB). I plan to run each instance of EQ from a
> seperate EQ directorie with the second instance having all eye candy and
> sound turned off. I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that
> covers the whole screen) and be able to switch between the two of them
> instantly.
>
> How can I accomplish this?
>
> If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?
>
> Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
> MaxBackgroundFrameRate?
>
> I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.

The answer to all your wants is in wineq, but only the paid version. The
"fake" full screen mode is exactly what you're looking for, disabled in the
free version. Has some other neat modes, but I much prefer the full screen
alt-tabbing myself too. It has another benefit for 2-boxing in the way it
can turn off the background window's rendering. Makes a huge difference if
you want to keep your resolution high.

I'd pay for it if it were a one-time purchase, but it's a subscription, and
far too large of a percentage of what I'm paying for EQ for my cheap ass to
pay.

www.lavishsoft.com


/nod , correct. Paid version is what you want.
Go to the lavishsoft forum and ask for a day or two's free trial. They gave
me one and I was hooked. Subscribed immediately after trying it.

T.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:38:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <Xns96ADB1B24AAE2Rumbledorhotmailcom@216.148.227.77>,
Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
>
>How can I accomplish this?
>

Wouldn't the best way be with two displays, and running one full
sized but windowed EQ on each monitor?
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:38:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

<wrat@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <Xns96ADB1B24AAE2Rumbledorhotmailcom@216.148.227.77>,
> Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >How can I accomplish this?
> >
>
> Wouldn't the best way be with two displays, and running one full
> sized but windowed EQ on each monitor?

Doubles the amount of video memory used, amount of video card processing
time, etc. If you have a beast of a machine and a beast of a video card it
might be ok, but otherwise I doubt it's a great option. Good for running a
browser alongside EQ maybe, but a whole nother 3d DX game? Never tried, but
it doesn't sound good.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:38:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:45:48 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:

>> Wouldn't the best way be with two displays, and running one full
>> sized but windowed EQ on each monitor?
>
>Doubles the amount of video memory used, amount of video card processing
>time, etc. If you have a beast of a machine and a beast of a video card it
>might be ok, but otherwise I doubt it's a great option. Good for running a
>browser alongside EQ maybe, but a whole nother 3d DX game? Never tried, but
>it doesn't sound good.

That is assuming someone is trying to run 2 displays off one video
card. But you can have more than 1 video cards in a PC. I've done it
before with one AGP and one cheap PCI video card. Worked OK but takes
forever to drag the damn mouse from one to another.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 9:43:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

At work I use an open source (free) utility called Synergy
(http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/) to control two PCs with one keyboard
and mouse. You set it up so you can move the mouse pointer back and
forth between two screens and whichever screen the mouse pointer is in
is the screen to which the keyboard input goes.

This doesn't solve your problem Rumbledor but I thought I'd mention it
as the discussion is on 2-boxing. I have not yet tried it at home with
EQ so it might not work but it certainly works very well on my machines
here at work.

Xanthalas
August 11, 2005 8:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <blelf1hha7qeqfh8gf4rka3gpb9fofutan@4ax.com>, impmon@digi.mon
says...
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:45:48 -0500, Faned <faned@wyld.qx.net> wrote:
>
> >> Wouldn't the best way be with two displays, and running one full
> >> sized but windowed EQ on each monitor?
> >
> >Doubles the amount of video memory used, amount of video card processing
> >time, etc. If you have a beast of a machine and a beast of a video card it
> >might be ok, but otherwise I doubt it's a great option. Good for running a
> >browser alongside EQ maybe, but a whole nother 3d DX game? Never tried, but
> >it doesn't sound good.
>
> That is assuming someone is trying to run 2 displays off one video
> card. But you can have more than 1 video cards in a PC. I've done it
> before with one AGP and one cheap PCI video card. Worked OK but takes
> forever to drag the damn mouse from one to another.

I'd have more faith in a good primary being able to run 2 instances than
a 'cheap pci cards' ability to run even one. :) 
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 7:32:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Faeandar wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor
> <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Ok. I've searched and seen posts bragging about WinEQ, EQWindows and EQ
> >Play Nice. Heck, I even found references calling those utilities
> >unnecessary using the Windows Application Compatability Toolkit.
> >
> >All I want to do is 2-box on one PC (P4/3.0, 1GB PC3200 Dual-Channel DDR,
> >ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB). I plan to run each instance of EQ from a
> >seperate EQ directorie with the second instance having all eye candy and
> >sound turned off. I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that
> >covers the whole screen) and be able to switch between the two of them
> >instantly.
> >
> >How can I accomplish this?
> >
> >If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?
> >
> >Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
> >MaxBackgroundFrameRate?
> >
> >I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.
>
> I used WinEQ and EQPlayNice with my current machine (2.8GHz, 1GB RAM,
> ATI 9700 AIW). It worked ok for the zones I was in, never took it to
> some of the more popular lag zones.
>
> The one thing that caused me to stop doing this was zoning. If I
> zoned toonA I was unable to switch to toonB until toonA was fully
> zoned, which could take a while. I quickly learned to auto run toonA
> to the zoneline and switch before he got there. But it was a pain and
> I forgot it a couple of times when in a full retreat.


You can alt-tab now. I wonder if you would have this problem these
days.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 10:58:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>All I want to do is 2-box on one PC...

I play on my homebrew box. It's loaded with an Abit 800FSB motherboard, a 3.0GHz
Northwood, and a gig of matched Crucial DDR400 memory.

To that I added my existing stuff: a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 400w power supply, a pair
of 80GB 7200RPM 8MB disks, a 16x DVD-+R, an Audigy 2, and the icing on the cake, a BFG
GeForce 6800 GT OC 256MB AGP vidcard.

The disks are in a RAID-0 array through Abit SERILLEL2 PATA>SATA adapters. The RAID
controller is built into the Northbridge chip. The DVD--+R is on the Intel PATA
controller.

The CPU is cooled with a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu and Arctic Silver 5. The NB is passively
cooled with a Zalman ZM-NB47J and Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy. The insanely noisy dual-fan
cooler on the BFG vidcard was replaced with an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5.

Net-net? 4 instances of EQ on the same box, windowed, with no perceptible lag except in
PoK, and it's so quiet that you can't really hear the thing running.

Total cost for the new components? About $780. Figure another $600 for the existing case,
vidcard, power supply, DVD-+R, floppy, and Audigy 2.

>I plan to run each instance of EQ from a seperate EQ directorie...

Why go to the trouble of separate directories? I run all 4 instances from a single
directory without suffering any ill effects.

>...with the second instance having all eye candy and sound turned off.

I do not have to choke my settings at all on any instance. I normally restrict spells to
My/NPC, but that's just to keep all the blinky lights from obscuring my view :>

>I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that covers the whole screen)...

You'll have to run all of your instances in a window, but CoolSwitch (aka ALT-TAB) is all
you'll need to get from window to window. Instantly.

A couple of caveats:

1> Zoning takes FOREVER, at least 3x as long as when single-instancing. I attribute this
to disk activity.

2> As experienced as I am, I will not drive more than 1 toon on a raid. I am not going to
be the one who blows a CH chain because I'm looking at the wrong screen at the wrong
moment. I can, however, drive 3 instances very well when soloing, and I've managed to
pull off a few Adventures and Expeditions when 2-boxing. But the last time I tried to
drive 2 toons in The Hole, it was uuuuugly. Bad things were running at our 14-person raid
too fast for me to keep up...which is bad news when you're driving the only melee and
healer in the group 8!

Best regards,

Tim ==
(substitute 'tcsys.com' for 'nospam.co.uk')
_________________

Seeq Endestroi
Paladin of Mithanial Marr, The Rathe
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=507035

My EQ Blog:
http://seeqoftherathe.blogspot.com

Grave Wisdom / Grave Intentions - a Rathe Guild
http://www.gravewisdom.com
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 2:05:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor
<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>Ok. I've searched and seen posts bragging about WinEQ, EQWindows and EQ
>Play Nice. Heck, I even found references calling those utilities
>unnecessary using the Windows Application Compatability Toolkit.
>
>All I want to do is 2-box on one PC (P4/3.0, 1GB PC3200 Dual-Channel DDR,
>ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB). I plan to run each instance of EQ from a
>seperate EQ directorie with the second instance having all eye candy and
>sound turned off. I want to run them both full-screen (not a window that
>covers the whole screen) and be able to switch between the two of them
>instantly.
>
>How can I accomplish this?
>
>If all options meet my requirements, which one tends to do it better?
>
>Do the MaxFrameRate settings make a big difference? What's this about a
>MaxBackgroundFrameRate?
>
>I'd appreciate it if one of you multi-box veterans could hook me up here.

I used WinEQ and EQPlayNice with my current machine (2.8GHz, 1GB RAM,
ATI 9700 AIW). It worked ok for the zones I was in, never took it to
some of the more popular lag zones.

The one thing that caused me to stop doing this was zoning. If I
zoned toonA I was unable to switch to toonB until toonA was fully
zoned, which could take a while. I quickly learned to auto run toonA
to the zoneline and switch before he got there. But it was a pain and
I forgot it a couple of times when in a full retreat.

~F
August 17, 2005 8:31:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <fsu4g1h4gt7d56qg9ksh5akp887a8q31qc@4ax.com>,
seeq@nospam.co.uk says...
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
>
> >All I want to do is 2-box on one PC...
>
> I play on my homebrew box. It's loaded with an Abit 800FSB motherboard, a 3.0GHz
> Northwood, and a gig of matched Crucial DDR400 memory.

Only a gig of ram? I'm surprised. I'd have put 1GB as a minimum for 2
boxxing, and would suggest 1.5 - 2GB for 4 boxxing. Whats your memory
utilization like? I presume you are running XP? I guess 2K has a smaller
os footprint...

> To that I added my existing stuff: a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 400w power supply, a pair
> of 80GB 7200RPM 8MB disks, a 16x DVD-+R,

Yes I can see how the DVD player would make a substantial difference.
/poke

> an Audigy 2, and the icing on the cake, a BFG
> GeForce 6800 GT OC 256MB AGP vidcard.
>
> The disks are in a RAID-0 array through Abit SERILLEL2 PATA>SATA adapters. The RAID
> controller is built into the Northbridge chip. The DVD--+R is on the Intel PATA
> controller.

RAID 0 scares me. MTBF divided by 2 :) 

> The CPU is cooled with a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu and Arctic Silver 5. The NB is passively
> cooled with a Zalman ZM-NB47J and Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy.

Lol... I thought I was /poking fun at the DVD spec... this is even
better: "Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy" You felt the need to spec the
exact adhesives you used!?

I mean sure, don't use duct tape to mount heatsinks to modern CPUs, but
I'm sure you'll be able to 4 box EQ successfully even if you are less
discerning about the epoxy you use.

j/k... I love enthusiasts. Cars, computers, model trains... it doesn't
matter... the hilarious lack of perspective is always the same. :) 

>
> A couple of caveats:
>
> 1> Zoning takes FOREVER, at least 3x as long as when single-instancing. I attribute this
> to disk activity.
>
> 2> As experienced as I am, I will not drive more than 1 toon on a raid. I am not going to
> be the one who blows a CH chain because I'm looking at the wrong screen at the wrong
> moment.

The trick to boxxing on a raid is to stay off the key rols... bring DPS
classes. You don't multibox the ch chain or maintank unless the raid is
very trivial :) 
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 8:31:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:31:52 GMT, 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Only a gig of ram? I'm surprised. I'd have put 1GB as a minimum for 2
>boxxing, and would suggest 1.5 - 2GB for 4 boxxing. Whats your memory
>utilization like? I presume you are running XP? I guess 2K has a smaller
>os footprint...

More RAM might not do much for me...perhaps it would speed up my zoning times...although
the disk lights are on solid when loading new zones.

>> To that I added my existing stuff: a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 400w power supply, a pair
>> of 80GB 7200RPM 8MB disks, a 16x DVD-+R,

>Yes I can see how the DVD player would make a substantial difference.
>/poke

Heh, well...ya caught me there. The system-spec part of my reply was cut-and-paste from a
similar post on my guild forum.

>RAID 0 scares me. MTBF divided by 2 :) 

Agreed, but there's nothing of consequence on those disks. The only thing that I'd be
even remotely concerned about would be my EQL INIs and such, and I back up all of my EQ
customizations with KiXtart script every time I start EQ.

>> The CPU is cooled with a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu and Arctic Silver 5. The NB is passively
>> cooled with a Zalman ZM-NB47J and Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy.

>Lol... I thought I was /poking fun at the DVD spec... this is even
>better: "Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy" You felt the need to spec the
>exact adhesives you used!?

You caught me again - this time lacing my posts with keywords so that my wisdom will
populate Google Group's databases in perpetuity. Muahaha!! :>

The epoxy thing is actually a big deal if you're replacing the EXTREMELY noisy and
unreliable Northbridge (NB) heatsink/fan (HSF) on an Abit IC-7G motherboard with a passive
heatsink.

The original IC-7G HSF was held in place with double-sided thermal tape. Those early HSFs
had a nasty habit of popping off the chip, and dropping down onto the backside of the AGP
card while the system was running. POOF! - no more AGP card. Abit began using a clip to
retain the HSF on later versions of the IC-7G.

Regardless of whether the OEM mounting method was tape or a metal retainer, the HSF was so
noisy that most users wanted to replace it straight away. Fortunately, a large passive
heatsink, relying on the downdraft of the CPU cooler, provides sufficient cooling for the
NB chip.

Once you've made the decision to replace your IC-7G's HSF with a passive cooler, you can
plan your attack by visiting the Abit user forum.

But beware! - there are several threads there that might lead you down wacky paths of
trying to replicate the original heatsink retainer with a section of a bicycle
spoke...ack! I tried it and almost ended up in tears.

Then I learned of the Arctic Silver epoxy...$13 bucks later I was all happy happy joy joy
:>

>> 2> As experienced as I am, I will not drive more than 1 toon on a raid. I am not going to
>> be the one who blows a CH chain because I'm looking at the wrong screen at the wrong
>> moment.

>The trick to boxxing on a raid is to stay off the key rols... bring DPS
>classes. You don't multibox the ch chain or maintank unless the raid is
>very trivial :) 

Yessir, /agree wholeheartedly. As an aside, my guild generally prohibits boxing on DKP
raids. We'll occasionally box in an pocket healer, slower or mezzer, but only if there's
no other way to get the raid done.

..
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:04:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d6c5d968e6ce06d989c89@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net:

> In article <fsu4g1h4gt7d56qg9ksh5akp887a8q31qc@4ax.com>,
> seeq@nospam.co.uk says...
>> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Rumbledor
>> <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >All I want to do is 2-box on one PC...
>>
>> I play on my homebrew box. It's loaded with an Abit 800FSB
>> motherboard, a 3.0GHz Northwood, and a gig of matched Crucial DDR400
>> memory.
>
> Only a gig of ram? I'm surprised. I'd have put 1GB as a minimum for 2
> boxxing, and would suggest 1.5 - 2GB for 4 boxxing. Whats your memory
> utilization like? I presume you are running XP? I guess 2K has a
> smaller os footprint...

I'm wondering if Seeq is using EQWindows or WinEQ to manage the rendering
of background displays or something. That could make four instances on 1GB
of RAM feasible, if the utility lived up to its billing.

< snip >

>> The CPU is cooled with a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu and Arctic Silver 5. The
>> NB is passively cooled with a Zalman ZM-NB47J and Arctic Silver
>> Thermal Epoxy.
>
> Lol... I thought I was /poking fun at the DVD spec... this is even
> better: "Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy" You felt the need to spec the
> exact adhesives you used!?
>
> I mean sure, don't use duct tape to mount heatsinks to modern CPUs,
> but I'm sure you'll be able to 4 box EQ successfully even if you are
> less discerning about the epoxy you use.
>
> j/k... I love enthusiasts. Cars, computers, model trains... it doesn't
> matter... the hilarious lack of perspective is always the same. :) 
>

Actually, speaking as a mild PC enthusiast myself, use of Arctic Silver
over thermal tape can make a noticeable difference in your machine's
capabilities, as its improved thermal transfer properties make it a more
effective solution, thus allowing for a heavier processing load.

Sure, it *may* be overkill to list it in this case, but it could be a
factor. Besides, he obviously put a lot of research and effort into his
rig. Let him wave it around a bit. ;) 

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:04:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> >> >All I want to do is 2-box on one PC...
> >>
> >> I play on my homebrew box. It's loaded with an Abit 800FSB
> >> motherboard, a 3.0GHz Northwood, and a gig of matched Crucial DDR400
> >> memory.
> >
> > Only a gig of ram? I'm surprised. I'd have put 1GB as a minimum for 2
> > boxxing, and would suggest 1.5 - 2GB for 4 boxxing. Whats your memory
> > utilization like? I presume you are running XP? I guess 2K has a
> > smaller os footprint...
>
> I'm wondering if Seeq is using EQWindows or WinEQ to manage the rendering
> of background displays or something. That could make four instances on 1GB
> of RAM feasible, if the utility lived up to its billing.
>
> < snip >
>
> >> The CPU is cooled with a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu and Arctic Silver 5. The
> >> NB is passively cooled with a Zalman ZM-NB47J and Arctic Silver
> >> Thermal Epoxy.
> >
> > Lol... I thought I was /poking fun at the DVD spec... this is even
> > better: "Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy" You felt the need to spec the
> > exact adhesives you used!?
> >
> > I mean sure, don't use duct tape to mount heatsinks to modern CPUs,
> > but I'm sure you'll be able to 4 box EQ successfully even if you are
> > less discerning about the epoxy you use.
> >
> > j/k... I love enthusiasts. Cars, computers, model trains... it doesn't
> > matter... the hilarious lack of perspective is always the same. :) 
> >
>
> Actually, speaking as a mild PC enthusiast myself, use of Arctic Silver
> over thermal tape can make a noticeable difference in your machine's
> capabilities, as its improved thermal transfer properties make it a more
> effective solution, thus allowing for a heavier processing load.
>
> Sure, it *may* be overkill to list it in this case, but it could be a
> factor. Besides, he obviously put a lot of research and effort into his
> rig. Let him wave it around a bit. ;) 

I am just upgrading from a P3 600-->(oc800) and P3 1200(powerleap).
So I find what builders are using for hardware with apps I use to be more
helpful than hardware only forums.
August 17, 2005 9:31:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <2cm5g19v6ha83b0alogfgmo7udnkjunrr4@4ax.com>,
seeq@nospam.co.uk says...

> But beware! - there are several threads there that might lead you down wacky paths of
> trying to replicate the original heatsink retainer with a section of a bicycle
> spoke...ack! I tried it and almost ended up in tears.

YIKES!
August 18, 2005 3:06:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <11g70vsqgj94f20@corp.supernews.com>,
tdNOslySPAM@PLEASEsasktel.net says...

> > Sure, it *may* be overkill to list it in this case, but it could be a
> > factor. Besides, he obviously put a lot of research and effort into his
> > rig. Let him wave it around a bit. ;) 

Yeah. I'm just poking fun. I'm as guilty of it as the next guy. :) 

> I am just upgrading from a P3 600-->(oc800) and P3 1200(powerleap).
> So I find what builders are using for hardware with apps I use to be more
> helpful than hardware only forums.

To be sure.

But for that, you really just need to know RAM, CPU, and graphics card.
Maybe motherboard. The rest is all pretty much fluff as far as EQ is
concerned. *Anything* reasonable in terms of the rest of the parts as
long as they aren't complete junk will perform much the same.

After all, there's a reason we don't see a lot of benchmarks rating
Unreal Tournament framerates against various CPU heatsink adhesives.

In any case there is a limit to what is relevant, to what is useful, and
to what is only required if you wanted to replicate his system down to
the torque he used to tighten each die-cast steel fabricated screws with
a Sears Craftman brand Philips driver, series 2B (made in 2001 and sold
as part of the "Deluxe Driver Set" in the red box, part # 3324491.

;) 

cheers,
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:06:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"42" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6d62e2bbeeb48b989c8b@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net...
> In article <11g70vsqgj94f20@corp.supernews.com>,
> tdNOslySPAM@PLEASEsasktel.net says...
>
<snip>
>
> In any case there is a limit to what is relevant, to what is useful, and
> to what is only required if you wanted to replicate his system down to
> the torque he used to tighten each die-cast steel fabricated screws with
> a Sears Craftman brand Philips driver, series 2B (made in 2001 and sold
> as part of the "Deluxe Driver Set" in the red box, part # 3324491.
>
> ;) 
>
> cheers,

You went with the RED box?!?!

/em walks away slowly shaking his head

Mike W. OF 1/2

How come it seems like it took no time at all to get this far in life,
yet it seems like it takes forever to get to Friday?
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:13:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d6d62e2bbeeb48b989c8b@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net:

> In article <11g70vsqgj94f20@corp.supernews.com>,
> tdNOslySPAM@PLEASEsasktel.net says...
>
>> > Sure, it *may* be overkill to list it in this case, but it could be
>> > a factor. Besides, he obviously put a lot of research and effort
>> > into his rig. Let him wave it around a bit. ;) 
>
> Yeah. I'm just poking fun. I'm as guilty of it as the next guy. :) 
>
>> I am just upgrading from a P3 600-->(oc800) and P3 1200(powerleap).
>> So I find what builders are using for hardware with apps I use to be
>> more helpful than hardware only forums.
>
> To be sure.
>
> But for that, you really just need to know RAM, CPU, and graphics
> card. Maybe motherboard. The rest is all pretty much fluff as far as
> EQ is concerned. *Anything* reasonable in terms of the rest of the
> parts as long as they aren't complete junk will perform much the same.

On the contrary, he demonstrated that he is no stranger to over-clocking
his processor/FSB. Doing so could quite possibly *require* attention to
more capable cooling tactics to maintain system stability.

> After all, there's a reason we don't see a lot of benchmarks rating
> Unreal Tournament framerates against various CPU heatsink adhesives.

Not specifically, but you *will* see them from machines that have been
over-clocked, necessitating the use of better cooling techniques.

> In any case there is a limit to what is relevant, to what is useful,
> and to what is only required if you wanted to replicate his system
> down to the torque he used to tighten each die-cast steel fabricated
> screws with a Sears Craftman brand Philips driver, series 2B (made in
> 2001 and sold as part of the "Deluxe Driver Set" in the red box, part
> # 3324491.
>

While you certainly have a point, I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's
illustrated in this case. If you've ever really put some effort into
tweaking a PC to get every last FPS out of it that you possibly can, you
know that all cooling aspects are quite important. The thermal grease you
use on the CPU and motherboard chipset can be the difference between
getting an extra several hundered MHz out of the CPU and having to settle
for far less or even stock speeds.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:13:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:13:24 GMT, Rumbledor
<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>> But for that, you really just need to know RAM, CPU, and graphics
>> card. Maybe motherboard. The rest is all pretty much fluff as far as
>> EQ is concerned. *Anything* reasonable in terms of the rest of the
>> parts as long as they aren't complete junk will perform much the same.
>
>On the contrary, he demonstrated that he is no stranger to over-clocking
>his processor/FSB. Doing so could quite possibly *require* attention to
>more capable cooling tactics to maintain system stability.

But what kind of cooling system did he use? Fans at room temp
(amateur), duct to AC unit (average OCer). water-cooled (expert), or
phase change (extreme OCer) :) 

My PC is water cooled and for radiator I'm using an automotive heater
core from a '77 Mercury as it's big enough to handle a pair of 120mm
fans. The reservoir is made from a tupperware container.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
August 18, 2005 7:33:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

In article <Xns96B5D7E903931Rumbledorhotmailcom@204.127.199.17>,
Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com says...

> While you certainly have a point, I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's
> illustrated in this case. If you've ever really put some effort into
> tweaking a PC to get every last FPS out of it that you possibly can, you
> know that all cooling aspects are quite important. The thermal grease you
> use on the CPU and motherboard chipset can be the difference between
> getting an extra several hundered MHz out of the CPU and having to settle
> for far less or even stock speeds.

Quite. I got on the OC wagon back in the glory days of the Celeron 300A
and still keep my hands in.

But this machine wasn't overclocked. Seeq's post was (presumably) about
performance levels while 4-boxxing EQ. The selection of thermal
components; the various fans, heatsinks, and even the Arctic Silver made
his system quieter. Not faster.

Its good information, but its definately into enthusiast detail
overkill.

Even if his system was overclocked, it would have been adequate to
simply mention that it was an 3ghz northwood p4 OC'd to 3.63ghz with an
aftermarket performance cooling solution. If someone wanted to know
about Zalmans and Arctic Silver, RAM timing, and BIOS settings, they
would have derailed and asked... but I'm not trying to be some sort of
usenet cop...and I'm not saying he shouldn't have posted it all. I don't
have any issue with what Seeq posted... I just found it amusing. :) 

Like I said... I've been guilty of it myself.
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d6d62e2bbeeb48b989c8b@shawnews.vf.shawcable.net:
> In any case there is a limit to what is relevant, to what is useful,
> and to what is only required if you wanted to replicate his system
> down to the torque he used to tighten each die-cast steel fabricated
> screws with a Sears Craftman brand Philips driver, series 2B (made in
> 2001 and sold as part of the "Deluxe Driver Set" in the red box, part
> # 3324491.
>

No wonder I was having so much trouble, mine is a 1997...

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Soothsayer of 70 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 36 Dwarven Mystic, 24 Sage, Treasure Hunter <Tempest>
Aviv, 15 Gnome Brawler, 30 Provisioner
Anonymous
August 23, 2005 9:09:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

> The n52 is set up to just ALT+TAB, hit the appropriate hotkey number and
> ALT+TAB back. There are some timing issues I'm still working out, such
> as occasionally for some reason the first line of the hotkey doesn't
> fire, causing the heal to land on the mob, but for the most part it
> works very well.

Personally if I was 2-boxing on one machine I would just install macroquest,
yes I know it is "cheating" but you don't need to use any of the things that
give you an advantage other than the spell casting.
Just make a macro that runs on the second machine that when it gets a tell
from you, to heal you. Or buf you etc. I two box on 2 machines so it is real
easy I use the n52 (great addition) hooked up to the second machine and
almost never look at the screen.
Anonymous
August 23, 2005 9:29:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Lorad" <jeff_nospam@hotmail.come> wrote in
news:jLIOe.882$u_6.326@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:

>> The n52 is set up to just ALT+TAB, hit the appropriate hotkey number
>> and ALT+TAB back. There are some timing issues I'm still working out,
>> such as occasionally for some reason the first line of the hotkey
>> doesn't fire, causing the heal to land on the mob, but for the most
>> part it works very well.
>
> Personally if I was 2-boxing on one machine I would just install
> macroquest, yes I know it is "cheating" but you don't need to use any
> of the things that give you an advantage other than the spell casting.
> Just make a macro that runs on the second machine that when it gets a
> tell from you, to heal you. Or buf you etc. I two box on 2 machines so
> it is real easy I use the n52 (great addition) hooked up to the second
> machine and almost never look at the screen.
>
>
>

I actually think that would require more effort from my primary account. I
would either have to actually type out a brief /tell, or sacrifice a hotkey
for each seperate command. With the n52, all necessary macros can reside on
the second account, and with 10 pages of hotkeys immediately accessible in
that manner, I'll run out of button possibilities on the n52 before I run
short of functional hotkeys.

I'm pleasantly surprised at just how well the n52 works for me.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 3:43:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:41:01 GMT, Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>As I had stated, I'm running both instances on one PC but from different
>directories. The only reason I run from different directories is so that
>I can crank down all the graphic settings and turn the sound off on the
>second account.

When you're running multiple instances from a single directory you can adjust the window
settings independently. However, the EQCLIENT.INI will remember the settings from the
instance which was last to close - so you do have to retweak things each go around if
you're not attentive to which instance you close first.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:02:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Seeq Endestroi <seeq@nospam.co.uk> wrote in
news:giung1dkrkeskom9f9rgo011u9qolognsm@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:41:01 GMT, Rumbledor
> <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:
>
>>As I had stated, I'm running both instances on one PC but from
>>different directories. The only reason I run from different
>>directories is so that I can crank down all the graphic settings and
>>turn the sound off on the second account.
>
> When you're running multiple instances from a single directory you can
> adjust the window settings independently. However, the EQCLIENT.INI
> will remember the settings from the instance which was last to close -
> so you do have to retweak things each go around if you're not
> attentive to which instance you close first.
>

At well under 50 cents per GB, hard drive space is just too inexpensive
these days to be an issue. I easily have 4GB to spare for a second copy,
thus eliminating any need to worry about it at all.

Besides, you mention window settings in addition to the graphics, models
and sound settings to which I was referring. Sounds like an awful lot of
trouble to both go through the game options at the login screen as well as
re-tweak your window settings once you get logged each time. /shrug

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
!