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Not in Kansas Anymore, Toto

Tags:
  • Heatsinks
  • Heat
  • Overclocking
Last response: in Overclocking
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November 12, 2002 12:48:36 PM

OK. To start, I am way out of my league posting on this forum. I think some of you guys and gals probably need heat sinks installed on your brains. (That's meant to be a compelement not an insult.)

I seem to have a heat problem with my P4 Intel 1.5 ghz processor. It often locks up and I believe it is a heat issue. I want to get the best heat sink for it. It has a 423 socket. Any suggestions?

Also, what is a better Thermal resistance? Higher or lower? (How's that for a novice question?)

More about : kansas anymore toto

November 13, 2002 3:28:21 AM

Hmmmm.
I doubt its the CPU overheating as the P4 cpu has extensive thermal throttling should things get too hot.
Your cpu may run like a slug, but it wont crash.
Im more inclined to think it would be a graphics or Power supply problem.

Do you get the same crashes occuring with the side of the case off?
Does it happen when you are only doing stuff? or even when the PC is idling?

Low thermal resistance. defiantely low. you want the heat to move!

<b>LHGPooBaa + Evil Hamster Sidekick: Serving Toms Hardware community for 2 years as of the 11th of November</b>
November 13, 2002 12:23:41 PM

Thanks for your reply. It crashes every other day or so. Sometimes after being on for 5 minutes. Sometimes after being on for hours. There really doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason to it.

I just realized that I left out an important bit of information. Sometimes, when it locks up and I re-boot the machine, the machine won't boot up. It just beeps repeatedly. I can't get it to boot up again until I open the box, remove the heat sink and then put the heat sink back on. It's really, really weird. That's why I thought it might be a heat problem. But, it doesn't require this every time. Just some times. Myabe I have multiple things going on. There is some of the heat grease on the processor and the heat sink. And I've tried putting a little more grease on it before.

I will try with the side of the case off for a while. I will get latest graphics drivers and install them to see if this helps.

If it is a power supply issue, how can I determine that?

Again, Thanks for your reply.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by talbers on 11/13/02 09:57 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 13, 2002 2:12:42 PM

reseating the heatsink shouldn't do anything
you're probably just letting the chip cool down cuz it takes so long to do. if you wait 10 mins will the comp boot up again
also, do you have a way to measure your cpu temps? then you can see for sure if it's heat or not
November 13, 2002 2:26:04 PM

OK. I know you are going to think I'm out of my mind here. But, this is honestly what has happened. I thought the same thing. That it was heat and if I just left it alone for a while, it would cool down and then be OK until it heats up again. Sometimes I have literally let the PC sit (powered down) all night long. The next morning, I start it up and it starts fine. BUT! Sometimes I let it sit all night long (powered down) and the next morning I go to boot it up and the darn thing just starts beeping and won't boot. Then I re-seat the heat sink and then it works. I know that sounds wierd but honestly that's what happens sometimes. I was thinking that maybe the motherboard somehow detected the overheated processor and did some sort of protection shut down requiring me to reset the heat sink for some reason. Or maybe the processor is overheating and popping out of its connections. Then when I reseat the heat sink it causes the processor to get a good connection.

I don't know. It is really bizzare. But, I honestly am not making it up and have not lost my mind (Well sort of but that's another issue. :o )

The only way I have to check machine temps that I know is to press delete at boot up to go into set up. It shows me the "System temperature" but not "Processor temp". How can I monitor processor temp?

Thanks for your reply.

(Too all who have replied and are replying - THANK YOU! I finally have people who know what they are talking about who are giving me good advice with this. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!. tomshardware.com rocks!)

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by talbers on 11/13/02 11:32 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
November 13, 2002 6:44:46 PM

After reading all that I'm starting to think there is some graphics card issue, that would be what the black screen beeping leads me to believe.

The lower the thwermal resistance the better heat will flow through it, and that is better.
November 13, 2002 10:19:44 PM

I use the freeware MOTHERBOARD MONITOR 5.
However your problems just dont sound like temperature related problems.
Im more inclined to think there is something wrong with your power supply or some loose connection inyour system.

P.S. If you think its a power supply issue, The best way to determine that is to observe the voltage fluctuations (if any) in motherboard monitor.
At idle the voltage readings barely fluctuate, 0.05v tops. Then when you run fulll load keep an eye out for any significant voltage drops, particularly on the 5v and 12v lines. big dips (greater tha 0.05v) indicate that the PSU cant supply the power required.


<b>All CDs will be protected and you are a filthy pirate! - <i>Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG)</i>
Serving THGC for over 2 years.</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lhgpoobaa on 11/13/02 07:32 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 13, 2002 11:49:14 PM

It doesn't sound like a heat problem to me either. It also doesnt sound like a power problem. It souds like you have a short some where. Did you build this computer your self? If you did are all the motherboard mounting pins in the right place? Is there one that is in the wrong place rubbing against the back of the mobo? Is there a problem with the actual socket the CPU sits in? Is there a CPU problem? Was there any small metal shaving floating arund the case grounding out the mobo? I would take that puppy totally apart. CPU and all. Clean and inspect everything and reassemble. Really check the back of the mobo and the socket. Good luck. Take care.

Hang in there. It can only get better!
November 14, 2002 11:46:39 AM

Thanks to all of you for your replies. I am going to print them all out and keep them for ideas and reference as I tackle this. I didn't build this PC. Someone else did. But, I think that I know enough to be dangerously courageous now and take it apart and start trying different things. (Famous last words huh?) I am going to get MOTHERBOARD MONITOR 5 to try to montior processor heat.

I found the BIOS Survival guide through this site. I will look into the BIOS also. The guides on this site look really helpful. Thanks Tom and Company.

Quick question on taking the actual processor out of the mobo (mother board right?). Is doing this by hand a bad thing? Is there a special tool for taking the processor out and putting back in? Or do I just release the levers and pull it out-carefully of course?

PS - This over clocking stuff looks kind of fun to try with one of my old PC's. ("And a monster is born.")

PSS - Sorry for hogging this message board and taking up your time. Again, thanks for your replies.
November 14, 2002 12:08:39 PM

Pay attention to the beeps, they may be trying to tell you something (POST beeps. Code is differant for each BIOS - check here http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm.
Also, try reseating the CPU.
And, listen to experience. If you are playing around with heatsinks make sure the MoBo is out of the case and laying on a flat solid surface. You don't want ANY flexing of the board while you are seating the HS. Motherboards have several layers of tracks laminated together and it doesn't take much to crack something. Lucky for me my vendor has a great RMA policy. And make sure you don't have any extra MoBo standoffs installed that are not being used and are touching the back of the board.
November 14, 2002 1:38:25 PM

I had the same problem with a computer not too long ago. It was not a heat problem. It turned out to be a MOBO issue. Clean it out like the rest of the guys said. Dust can definately make a perfect system unstable. Pay particular attention to the memory/pci slots. Use canned air to blow the dust out of those. Good luck.

[rant]AMD, YOU ARE EVIL!!! GIVE US WHAT WE WANT!!! A STOCK, UNLOCKED CPU!!![/rant]
November 14, 2002 9:43:40 PM

Nope. Taking the cpu out is pretty easy. Remove the heatsink carefully, lift up the locking arm and gently lift and wiggle the cpu out of the socket (make sure you have grounded yoruself too)

Lookign back at your posts i was wondering if it could actually be a motherboard problem, Hard to tell, best investigate one component at a time.

P.S. overclocking with old stuff often doesnt give good results (if any). Good overclocking requires thought an planning. High quality fast ram, the correct brand & type of motherboard, the right speed grade/ batch of CPU, good cpu and case cooling etc.

<b>All CDs will be protected and you are a filthy pirate! - <i>Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG)</i>
Serving THGC for over 2 years.</b>
November 15, 2002 6:20:46 PM

I upgraded the video driver and re-seated the heat sink and processor. It isn't giving me problems so far. Time will tell. I am going to wait and see if this does the trick before trying more things.

I got Motherboard Monitor 5. Problem is that I don't know which sensors to set Motherboard Monitor 5 to monitor for temperature. I have a dfi wt70-ec mother board. I looked on the MM5 web sites list of MOBO's but wt70-ec isn't listed under dfi. I went to dfi's web site and found info on the wt70-ec but nothing on the thermal sensors. The options for sensors that come up are the following:

Winbond 1
Winbond 1 2n3904
Winbond 1 Diode
Winbond 2
Winbond 2 2n3904
Winbond 2 Diode
Winbond 3
Winbond 3 2n3904
Winbond 3 Diode

Anyone know which ones I should set the 3 temperature monitors to?

PS - With the overclocking stuff. I guess for right now I should stick to stuff I don't know rather than get carried away with stuff I really don't know. But, it sounds interesting. Worth reading up on. Thanks for the feedback.
November 15, 2002 9:29:31 PM

Each motherboard is different. What you need to do is just play around with the MBM5. You will probably find two reading that make sense. The hotter of the 2 is probably the CPU the other one is probably the case temp. Once you think that you have it, make the temps that you have through MBM5 then reboot. Go into the bios on the reboot, then from there go into hardware mon. and check the temps in the bios. They should be pretty close to what you wrote down. Tada. Good luck. Post your results. Take care.

Hang in there. It can only get better!
November 17, 2002 8:51:29 AM

Usually you have to work out what doide is give the correct signal... it varies between boards.
But for MY epoxy kt333 winbond 1 gives the mobo temp and winbond 2 diode is the CPu.

<b>All CDs will be protected and you are a filthy pirate! - <i>Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG)</i>
Serving THGC for over 2 years.</b>
November 22, 2002 3:28:40 PM

To let you all know, I haven't had a chance to mess with the monitor settings yet in MM5. I will this weekend. The PC did start beeping on one boot earlier this week but started again later. I bought some canned air and I am going to blow any dust and stuff out the slots and processor pin holes etc. I will start a new thread on this when I know more in case anyone's interested. I may need help on setting the monitors in MM5. If I can't figure it out, I'll post all the temps I see and take a poll on which is the processor.

Anyway, thanks to all who posted replies.
a b K Overclocking
January 13, 2003 4:08:11 AM

You could be having the memory overheat, how is your case fan situation?

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
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