Tom's Hardware: Topic Canada moves to Decriminalize Marijuana
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Well well... there goes the Dutch monopoly on legalised drugs.
My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole 
I know what you mean. I used to be a total stoner when I was younger (not I'm just a partial stoner) and I got busted with weed twice by cops...and both times the cop just dumped it onto the ground and let us go.
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green> 
The irony is that the only "violence" that accompanies marijuana comes from the fact that it is illegal, meaning it gets smuggled into the country from Mexico and elsewhere, and is easy money for gangs.
The worst thing that could happen to drug dealers is for pot to be legalized. Prices would fall like a rock and they'd be out of business.
Hell, they probably lobby the government to keep it illegal! Lol!
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green>
I read somewhere a long time ago that Marlboro already has full marketing parphernalia and process plans at the ready in the event pot ever does become legal. They will call them Marlboro "Blues."
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green>
Thank God... our monoploy remains!
But the laws are getting weirder and weirder here... there is a new law that is going to make smoking in pubs illegal. This law will also count for coffeeshops, and the whole idea of coffeeshops is that can legally can smoke pot in there. Weird weird weird.
My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole
Hmm, it isn't a bad move at all.
Just wait though, the day it gets legalized, I swear I'll be wearing a gas mask, to FREAKIN BREATH.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
Personally I could care less about drug trafficking. It's the idea of having stoned blokes on the streets that bothers me. That, and the fact they reek of a stench not even the Half-Life Hazmats and masks would protect me from.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
No I'm not.
I really have lung problems, and cannot tolerate it. I try to, but it either causes me to really need to breath more, or I start having lung spikes.
It just stinks with them, period.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
I'm sure that they would restrict weed smoking in public places and or have designated spots where you could smoke it. Like a weed bar. 
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
Nah. Look, I've been able to tolerate more cigarette smoke, but not too much. I still try as much to take breaths inn-between the smoke trails passing near me. I just have a problem with the smell. However, when cig smoke becomes heavily concentrated, it becomes extremely disturbing. And then comes pot. That is the highest of the highest, and there I just have a huge tolerance problem. I cannot stand it, it not only stinks, but I feel it in me.
Here's a recent thing that happened: In Math class, I stayed for like 5 minutes near my teacher who was explaining something to me. Problem is, she reeked of abnormal cigarette stench, not the regular smoker's smell, but something like burnt ashes, or something so toxic. I had trouble breathing, naturally. What's worse though, is after the course I started getting stomach cramps!
Coincidence or not? I wish I could say it's just coincidence, but it has happened before, due to heavy smoke smell.
Second-hand smoke SUCKS, period. And the newcomer pot smokers, once they get their pot=legal wish, had better realize that we, those who are already tired of second-hand smoke, will NOT start tolerating an even worse smelling substance.
I know I whine a lot here, but trust me, it is nothing compared to this. If there is one thing in my life I am an extremist to, and would love the end of it one day, it's smoking, including pot. I just have a very closed-mind in this specific topic, really extremist. Else, I am open to possibilities. But the day we are offered to banish it forever, I'll be the number one at the door of that voting campaign.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
Thanks for the support, I thought for a second most people didn't mind being near pot smoking at all.
But yeah, if they create areas, VERY RESTRICTED AND ISOLATED areas for pot smoking, and had very high penalties for any outside breach, I'd be ok. No way will I go into a pot-filled restaurant. Rather, I'd enjoy more spitting the food around, to show 'em they've destroyed my night and my lungs.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
Well, I'll assume you were replying to others. Since I personally am aware of the major differences between cigarettes and pot. Enough to know that yes, pot in general is much less toxic than cigarettes. That is why I dropped that argument since the time I learned more.
I totally disagree on the stink factor. Of course, it depends on each person, but also majorly if the person herself consumes the substance. You do, so you have a much higher built tolerance to it, and probably don't even care smelling it, just like packs of cigarette smokers together who smell each other's clothes and smoke with no problem.
However to people like me who absord the second-hand smoke, as you also agreed, it is extremely displeasant. I don't know non-smokers' view on each smoke's smell and which stinks more to them, but to me, both are annoying, however there is something in pot that suddenly hits me badly, to the point I didn't even get some time to build tolerance. For some reason it just attacks me too quickly.
I also very much respect the one thing each human is entitled to: freedom. No, I am not to impose on any smoker to stop. I am with the fact we impose areas for it, but no I won't go destroy the freedom to use them, unless it's a hard drug, then it better be illegal.
As for alcohol, like I said in the first paragraph, I am aware of the damages it causes relative to pot. And, as time grew on and me becoming more informed, most of my arguments who were uninformed towards these two compared, I can't use them anymore, and ergo I must agree with you. Whether one is more addictive than the other varies by each person. Some are so strong-willed, they can take one half-beer and be ok. Some need 3 and more. Those who want to get drunk, have no honor/self-respect really for their body, they simply want to destroy themselves internally, and then go do silly things, up to the worst of them: driving while intoxicated.
However, alcohol, like wine, is often sampled, it's almost an art to some, with its vintage history. Others like beer, are sometimes overrated and become indeed abusive substances. I see two sides to alcohol personally, which is why I am still a bit inclined to say that alcohol is not as bad as it sounds. However I am as conscious as they come, with my personal overly high principles, so I know my limits easily and control them.
In conclusion, Phial, while I am extremly severe when it comes to tobacco in general, I don't discriminate the people who use them (except for hard drug consumers), or classify them in any inferior way. If I did, I'd have shun down some of the nicest and smartest people, who smoke cigs each day, ya know?
I would, however, back any law, that would create areas isolated from non-smokers, all the while keeping it legal. That means in a way, I could support legalization of pot, only if such condition is met. Otherwise, my precious air and environment will be the place I can no longer rely on enjoying fresh air. (it is happening lately in my building, some pot smoker on the balcony, getting his smoke to my windows... it truly annoys me, but then again, I ask myself what possible restriction can the government impose, if they did legalize it, to the smokers, in their own home)
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/01/03 03:02 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
| Quote : I totally disagree on the stink factor. Of course, it depends on each person, but also majorly if the person herself consumes the substance. You do, so you have a much higher built tolerance to it, and probably don't even care smelling it, just like packs of cigarette smokers together who smell each other's clothes and smoke with no problem. |
absolutely agree. when i did smoke cigarretes i didnt care about the smell. now that i havent for 3 years, i totally hate the smell. it literally makes me sick to my stomache... and yes i was just speaking generally in my post 
if anyting should be made illegal, tobacco should be NUMBER1. addictive substances are purposely put in the tobacco to make people addicted so they will buy more. if the tobacco companies werent so big and didnt have so much influence in governments (they probably fund alot of gov't projects and alot of important people probably own tobacco stocks) they would have probably been brought down already because they are clearly endangering peoples health for their own profit.
amazing how the justice system works in a democratic gov't eh? rofl
so yes i agree tobacco as it is now should be stopped.
but this is all OOT. marijuana is the subject not tobacco
if marijuana does become decriminalized i dont see people being allowed to smoke it in public areas. its 2nd hand smoke is unhealthy.
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<A HREF="http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001355.html" target="_new">*I hate thug gangstas*</A>
| Quote : Second-hand smoke SUCKS, period. And the newcomer pot smokers, once they get their pot=legal wish, had better realize that we, those who are already tired of second-hand smoke, will NOT start tolerating an even worse smelling substance.
|
How about we just make some brownies instead of smoking it? They could even be desert in that restaurant where you don't want anyone smoking a doobie.
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Pot cake lol...
Man, that'd make anyone who ever doubted that the world CAN be seen flipped, see the possibilites!
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
First off Eden, I completely respect your stand on this issue. But there are a couple things I have to disagree with you about.
| Quote : You do, so you have a much higher built tolerance to it, and probably don't even care smelling it, just like packs of cigarette smokers together who smell each other's clothes and smoke with no problem. |
I'm 25 and I've been smoking cigarettes for about 6 years. To this day I cannot stand 2nd hand smoke. It honestly makes me feel sick. Now if I'm smoking and so are other people, it's ok. So not all smokers like 2nd hand smoke.
About weed, I've been smoking daily for about 3 years now. And like Phial, I too enjoy smoking by myself. Although I will occasionally enjoy it socially as I don't grow my own and have to get it somewhere.
There is something I'm not sure if you are aware of Eden. As you probably know, pot has a more pungeant smell than tobacco smoke. BUT, marijuana dissipates MUCH quicker than cigarettes. That's why if you know anybody who smokes weed, there is a good chance that they smoke weed in the house but do not allow cigarettes to be smoked inside. This is very common. So I feel people are commonly mislead into thinking that weed smells more that cigarettes which is NOT true.
phial, I just want to say that I agree 100% with your second post. Well said.
And if weed gets legalized(which I don't think it ever will 
), I can gaurantee you won't be able to smoke in restaurants. There MIGHT be coffee shops(or hash bars like in Amsterdam) where you can smoke, but it will probably be restricted to the home.
The problem with marijuana, in my experience, is that people start to like it too much, and then they become emotionally addicted to it--even though I believe it isn't physically addictive like nicotine. Thing is, anything can become a problem if it's overused. Even cigarettes would be pretty harmess to most people if you only smoked one or two a day. Problem is, people start doing it all the time--it becomes a psychological crutch first, and then an addiction. Alcohol is the same way.
When you think about it, the affects of these kinds of substances (not talking about acid, PCP, heroin, cocaine, or any of the other obviously more immediately harmful drugs) wouldn't even be that big an issue in a smaller, more rural society. However, it's when you start mixing the widespread use of mind-altering substances with the proliferation of overcowded urban environs that they really become a societal problem. I have to admit, if I was an employer, I would not want to hire someone who was stoned all the time. It wouldn't bother me if it was controlled and occasional (which describes my habits) but I've noticed a lot of people have no self-control. When that happens, marijuana does become dangerous.
The problem with that argument is that you can say exactly the same thing about alcohol, which is legal, and is probably more detrimental when abused.
Moral relativism is a bitch, eh?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can see both sides of the argument. I tend to believe it should be legalized, but strictly controlled. I also worry that pot-related accidents and other incidents will go on the rise immediately afterwards, giving us a healthy dose of "unintented consequences."
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Twitch on 06/03/03 01:33 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
I was ready to come back pretty hard until I read...
| Quote : The problem with that argument is that you can say exactly the same thing about alcohol, which is legal, and is probably more detrimental when abused. |
and then I realized you point.
| Quote : I also worry that pot-related accidents and other incidents will go on the rise immediately afterwards, giving us a healthy dose of "unintented consequences." |
I don't believe this would happen. First of all, I think it's a common non-truth that if pot becomes legal EVERYBODY will start smoking. I feel this would be far from the truth. At least not to the extent you imagine. People who smoke marijuana on a daily basis usually are responsible enough to know when to drive. Of those who aren't, I believe that pot doesn't affect your awareness as badly as alcohol. I can say that from PLENTY of first-hand experiences.
On the flip side, alot of "new" smokers might be a little careless at the wheel. But I would hope these people, along with ALL marijuana smokers, would follow the law the way responsible people who drink do. I feel the legalization of marijuana would make smokers treat the consequences more respectfully. Not that they don't today...except of course for the fact that marijuana is illegal. 
Honestly in my opinion marijuana should be treated alot like alcohol is now. I also believe that alcohol is more dangerous when considering all things than pot.
I mean before prohibition in the 1920's, marijuana WAS legal. It was when the ban came on alcohol that marijuana was also thrown into the mix. But when alcohol's ban was lifted...mary jane didn't get the same treatment. I think that says a sh*tload.
Well, I would vote to legalize it, but not without similar restrictions as alcohol. For example, in the U.S., you can brew your own beer without a license, but not more than 60 gallons in a year (if I remember correctly. The point is, there's a limit.) The same should go for marijuana. You can cultivate your own plants, but not more than a few (perhaps no more than a four square-foot space?) and any mass production of marijuana would require licensing so that the goods can be taxed. That would be practical, because this way, the state would be reluctant to overturn any legislation making marijuana legal--the state always has a hard time saying no to tax dollars. Instead of costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars from paying to enforce wishy-washy and ineffective marijuana laws, the state could actually gain tax money from the legalization--the same way the state makes money on alcohol.
Drug dealing would effectively vanish, because the price of pot would fall, making it almost worthless to deal it in the streets. I mean, if everyone can grow their own hydroponics, and you can buy good shite at the liqour store, why would anyone pay $100 for a quarter-ounce of chronic? Or even $20 a quarter for skank? After all, you don't see street gangs killing each other over tobacco or alcohol turf, right?
Some drugs need to be illegal, IMO, simply because they are not really meant to be used by human beings in a repetetive fashion. Does anyone really think coke should be legal? Or heroin? Yes, I know some people do, but I just can't find the jusitifcation for it. At least pot has documented medical benefits, and people definitely do NOT become violent or suicidal when using it.
Pot should be legal. From everything I've read and from my own experience, it is less harmful than alcohol. And besides, think of how much money McDonald's would make selling french fries!
When in doubt err on the side of freedom.
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green>
Dude, whether the laws of physics or chemistry apply differently on pot or not, the point still stands to me, it destroys any atmosphere if I am around a smoker or am around the area where the smoke comes. It's not how long I'll smell it, it's how much I will before I go feel sick. And it ain't long I'll tell you that, it's definitely a nanosecond thingy!
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
| Quote : Legalizing something else that has more than four times the amount of carcinagins as cigarette is asinine. |
That argument isn't applicable though. If smokers only smoke three or four cigarettes a day, the cases of cigarette-induced diseases would drop significantly. For a stoner to equal the carcinogenic intake of a cigarette smoker, he would have to smoke four or five joints in a day. Now, I've known some stoners in my life, and I can only think of one who would smoke more than two joints in a day. 99% of smokers won't even smoke one entire joint on their own every day. So it just isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green>
It sickens me when I see these kids smoking. Every day I just look at them and say in my mind: I hope you choke on it...
All of your arguments are holding truth, I totally agree with you and can mostly relate because we're both in Canada and know how the system works here.
The problem lies in what Canada means by "Government controlled" and "Government grown" MJ. Are they saying they handle it only? Does it mean other companies can then pitch in to improve the taste, as you hypothesized?
Who knows?
I agree though, if MJ is less harmful than cigarette, the whole capitalist good/bad side that is seen now, which is that we have excellent economies, due to cigarette companies' income, which in turn is actually at the expense of destroying people's lives, will be much less expressed. We'd have money raised by a much less damaging substance. Make note that I am not endorsing it in any way. You know very well it sickens me if I see a pot smoker in front of me. Just don't do it in front of me, and we'll both run along well.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head!
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The government needs to acknowledge that controlling cigarette and alcohol sales is not something can be done as things stand, and the reason for that is simple: human nature.
Just because you tell a business owner that he cannot sell such things to minors, and just because the business owner then mandates that the law be followed in his/her establishment, there is no certainty his employees will follow the rules. Think about it. Who is it that holds the real power over who can buy cigarettes?
Cashiers.
And cashiers are real people, not necessarily 100% law-abiding and concerned with adapting and minimizing personal conflict. The government is asking regular people who are almost certainly earning a pittance to make his/her job even more painful than it already is. And for anyone who says that's no excuse, pray that you never have to work directly with the general public on an ongoing basis. Anyone who has ever worked directly with retail consumers for more than a week can tell you exactly what I'm talking about. Refusing to sell cigarettes to minors is just another thing that creates conflict, and depending on where you live, that conflict might seem threatening. People avoid conflict unless there is some incentive to face it.
Licensing cigarette and alcohol sales only to businesses that sell <i>only</i> those things makes sense. If the business doesn't comply, the business has its licenses revoked and ceases to exist.
You're never going to really be able to control the corner Mobil or Chevron station--they're huge corporations who cannot possibly track and control such things adequately.
It's impossible to control because, in the end, it comes down to one individual deciding he or she wants to be cool.
<font color=green>The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven.</font color=green>
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