Peltier for watercooling

I allready got a full watercooling system. It looks something like this:

Dangerden Maze 3 for CPU (XP2400)
Dangerden block for my gf4 ti4600
noname block for my northbridge
Black Ice 2 radiator with 4 enermax 120mm fans.
Eheim 1048 pump
Innovatek watertank

I was thinking of adding a peltier to my CPU, allready have a coldplate for the maze 3. What do I need from the PSU? And how strong shall the peltier be? How much will I earn by using peltier? And how do I fix the isolation? What do I need there?
My current temp is 34C, i usually go for 32, 33 idle. CPU is at 2317mhz, can't OC more untill I get my new motherboard fixed.
32 answers Last reply
More about peltier watercooling
  1. Well, ideally you need a seperate PSU for the pelletier element, which should be 175watt. You'll need some silicone sealant (Home-Hardware or the likes) and some neoprene to seal off the entire area.. you've gotta put neoprene on the underside of your board and seal off the entire area under the CPU socket (to avoid condensation)... then you've gotta seal off the surroundings of the socket with neoprene, and seal the pelletier into a containment made with neoprene and silicone... you should also use this paste that prevents corosion and condensation on metal surfaces... but i can't remember right now what its called - i'll get back on that one.

    Ahhh! It's 2003 and wait, whats this!? My computer didn't blow up! ... Well damn, there goes my new Athlon @ 333FSB and my inssurance claim... heheheh
  2. But any PSU that can give 175w can't handle a peltier on 175w, right? Witch PSUs can handle a peltier? I do not often see the full spec. on PSUs, A, V.. only the w is specified normally.
    And is it worth it? What do I earn from having lower temps?
    And last.. where do I find all the isolation material?
  3. Well, first off check this out:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/19970102/index.html
    http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?follow-pro=1&vwcatalog=directron&vwnitems=0&vwtotal=0.00&basket=(null)&et=38e1d8a4&vwentropy=954225156&query=peltier&catalog=directron&basket=(null)&et=38e1d8a4&unique=7c6a288c

    Now, a peletier element with a certain Wattage simply can handle that amount of energy coming off the CPU - and doesn't necessarily mean that it requires that amount of juice from your PSU. The pelletier, if properly maintained, can probably lower your CPU temperature down to about 10degrees celcius, maybe even lower depending on the cooling it gets on its hot side (ie how hot your water is). Lower temps give you more stability in overclocking and performing regularly, while giving you system a longer lifespan.. the cooler you keep it, the better.
    Now as for the pelletier needing a seperate PSU; a pelletier needs (As in the case of the Directron ones) 15.4 Volts at a variable number of amps (if it were a 6Amp peletier, then 15.4x6=92.4 Watts needed).
    Now the neoprene can be purchased at Directron (http://store.yahoo.com/directron/neoprene.html) and other places as well (though I can't remember the web-site off-hand), but you could try looking at a store that sells clothing material. Don't hesitate if you have any other questions..

    Ahhh! It's 2003 and wait, whats this!? My computer didn't blow up! ... Well damn, there goes my new Athlon @ 333FSB and my inssurance claim... heheheh
  4. You need atleast a 100W peltier for CPU peltiercooling... I have a 172W one with a 24V 200W PSU. I advice you to look for a peltier between 120-150W or even higher. Depending on the voltage range the peltier support (often 12V-16V... but sometimes up to 24V) you buy an additionol PSU which can supply more then the peltiers wattage on a supported voltage.
    There are a lot of peltier kits out there that come with peltier, isolation stuff and a coldplate. You need to isolate the socket, inside of the sochket, back of the motherboard and the coldplate touching the cold side of the peltier. You can see how you have to isolate a peltier with a waterblcok (Swiftech MCW462UT) here: <A HREF="http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw462_install_guide_tec.pdf" target="_new">http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw462_install_guide_tec.pdf</A>.

    Now if you have a gooed enough watercooling to keep the hot side of the peltier 40C at maximum load your cold side temp, and also CPU temp will be around the 10C (the deltaT of a peltier at around maximum heat input is about 30C). When your CPU runs idle it will soon get below 0C.

    My PC eats so much money that I'm in 'desperate' need of it to buy PC3500 RAM, help Svol with his OC project!
    --- PM me for information.
  5. Thanks for the info... those packages seem perfect for me, the question is, do they exist to get in sweden, and do they exist for the dangerden maze 3.
    How hard is it to make good isolation? how big are the risks? I would really like to see idle below 0C :) How strong does the tec need to be to do that?
    Thanks once again for the info.
  6. Well IIRC those packages have a coldplate as big as the peltier (5cm by 5cm). You just place the isolation, then the colplate on the CPU with Arctic Silver, then you place the peltier (also with thermal grease ie AS2 or 3) and finally you place the waterblock on it. Atleast that is how it works, but I ordered such a kit yesterday so maybe I can tell it during this week.

    We have to things in Holland at some OC-shops... maybe some Sweden OC shops sell them too.
    Otherwise you can buy it a <A HREF="http://www.oc-shop.com" target="_new">http://www.oc-shop.com</A> (Ducth company) as they also do international shipping.

    You need atlast a peltier that has a max heat input of 100W... preferably 150W or higher. Every good peltier has a deltaT of 60-70C at 0 W heat input... at idle CPU the deltaT will be 40-50C at max load around 30C.

    Isolation is very important, you can look at <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com" target="_new">http://www.overclockers.com</A> for some articles about peltiercooling. If you get condensation there is a great chance you damage your hardware. Other risks are that the coldplate isn't touching the CPU core good enough because you can't see it due to the isolation (this fried a CPU for me). If you don't cool the hot side enough or the heat produced by the CPU is higher then the heat that can be moved (Qmax) you also risk CPU damage. The last thing that can happen is that your peltier fails to work (just like a fan)... but with good quality peltiers and stable power the chance for that to happen is very low.

    My PC eats so much money that I'm in 'desperate' need of it to buy PC3500 RAM, help Svol with his OC project!
    --- PM me for information.
  7. I believe I will try building my own powersupply, since I am on a pritty tight budget. And I like the idea aswell.

    You don't happen to know anything about what steppings are good on amds? mine is G... Hopefully I will get my new motherboard within a week, then I can start my little new project.

    I believe I will get a 172w 24V peltier, seem pritty nice to me, and quite easy to get here.
    Though it seems to be some risks, I hope to have a successfully peltiercooled system soon :)
    Once again, a big thanks for all the info.
  8. LOL "pretty tight budget" and "peltier cooling" arnt two phrases that go well together!

    <b>Pentium4 Celleron: The computing worlds Rice Car.</b>
  9. Ok, not really too tight, but to buy a PSU that in sweden costs $160, is somewhat to much for me, even if i theoreticly could afford it. Therefor, I will try building my own first.

    Anyways, I won't get started directly, probably I will begin when I have my new mobo.
  10. I don't know for the new T-breds... but you might take a look in the overclocking database on Overclockers.com.

    Anyway make sure you build a good PSU and test it first... you don't want to fry your peltier and CPU at the same time.

    I also got a 172W 24V peltier (Kryotherm DRIFT-0.8) but as I said I fried my CPU with it once and I'm in the middle of my last schoolyear so I'm not going to try peltiercooling again before June. However my graduation project will be about thermal electrics... including the peltier effect. Atleast I can do some nice experiments with it.

    My PC eats so much money that I'm in 'desperate' need of it to buy PC3500 RAM, help Svol with his OC project!
    --- PM me for information.
  11. Thanks.. but I must say I'm pritty lost in overclockers.com, didn't find anything useful...

    Anyways, I allready got my new motherboard now, A7N8X, only need a bios flash and it will hopefully be able to perform some overclocking. The peltier project will begin asap. But I will be sure to test it first, don't want to fry this CPU. The only problem seems to be finding components here in sweden, but I'm looking around, found a few intresting things, but not exactly the things I need.

    Just one question, can you run a peltier in open air? just for testing, or will it take damage from it? Would be good to know :)

    I am quite intrested in this subject, if you find any material, or want to show some of your own work, I would really like to see it. Ecpesially when it comes to the peltier effect.
  12. It's going to cost a lot, whatever you do. Just look around in this catalog. Go to DigiKey.com, to their online electronic parts catalog, Section M for power supply products....

    <A HREF="http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T031/SectM.pdf" target="_new">http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T031/SectM.pdf</A>

    build the supply yourself from transformers:
    Page 991 (7 of PDF)
    TAMURA/MICROTRAN Splitform power transformers
    115v/230v Dual Primary
    24volts @ .5amps (12 watts)... 1 costs 10.76, 10 are 9.78
    To get the actual output you need, you'll need to tie a pile of 'em in parallel. If you want about 200 watts, then you need (200 / 12) 16 transformers. So it's ten or more... that's 9.78 each, or $156.48. Whoops, expensive!


    Page 998 (14 of PDF)
    CONDOR Linear power supplies
    International series single output
    24v @ 7.2A (172.8 watts) ... price for 1: $119.48


    Page 1009 (Page 25 of PDF)
    VOLGEN Enclosed Switching power supplies
    24v @ 6.5amps (156 watts) ..... $169.14


    ...and so on. In general, it won't be cheap no matter what you do.
  13. You can find some TEC/peltier articels here: <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index21.asp#PELTIERS" target="_new">http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index21.asp#PELTIERS</A>.
    I don't recommend to run a peltier without hot side cooling... those things get above 100C within 2 secs and they could fry themselves. I tested it by assembling my watercoo.ling first outside the case and then run it... you can see ice forming at the cold side within a couple of minutes due condensation: it doesn't harm your watercooler and looks very cool.

    I don't think my own stuff won't be usefull for you because they're written in Dutch. But you can find articles about peltiers with google... and a lot of manufacturers (ie KryoTherm) give a lot of information at their website.

    But check out these links:
    <A HREF="http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm" target="_new">http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm</A>
    <A HREF="http://www.electronics-cooling.com/Resources/EC_Articles/SEP96/sep96_04.htm" target="_new">http://www.electronics-cooling.com/Resources/EC_Articles/SEP96/sep96_04.htm</A> Very good article
    <A HREF="http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm" target="_new">http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm</A> Lots of information.
    <A HREF="http://www.peltier-info.com" target="_new">http://www.peltier-info.com</A>

    I think that is enough reading food :smile: .

    My PC eats so much money that I'm in 'desperate' need of it to buy PC3500 RAM, help Svol with his OC project!
    --- PM me for information.
  14. Thanks... Right now I don't have a heat problem, but I will voltmod my mobo soon, and after that, I might order a peltier :) We will see how it goes with the powersupply, hard to get all the parts here in sweden to sane prices. Well thanks again for all the info, this thread has taught me quite alot. :)
  15. Check out http://www.xp-data.com/product.asp?p=1552 if this is the one you have there shouldnt be any problem installing a peltier (except for the powersuply). I own a regular Koolance myself so I dont know anything about actually putting other systems together.
  16. Yea, that's the one. Exept I use the socket 468 version, for AMD w/ 1/2 inch fittings. I know it is prepared for peltier, I even have the coldplate to use between cpu and peltierelement.

    Just one question about the koolance, what cpu do you use, at what freq./voltage, and what is your idle/work temp?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by starkmjolk on 01/12/03 01:44 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
  17. Peltiers are risky business! I knew someone who had one fail: when they fail they turn into heaters! His burned right through the CPU packaging and melted the socket!

    A safer way to use peltiers would be to cool the water with them! You could mount several of them on a water tank, with coolers, instead of using a radiator, using the pelt sinks as the radiating portion and the water tank as the fluid portion. Of course this would require custom fabrication. But in the event of a failure, you would have a lot more time to shut down.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  18. But if you did it like that, how would you cool the warm side of the pelt? If you have a good way I believe it sounds like a good idea acctually. I have also understood they are dangerous and can easely fail...

    Tried to think of several other sulutions for better cooling, including ways to cool the water, but haven't got any really good ones yet.
  19. Lots of ways to cool water. Run a tank in your refrigerator. Or in your freezer, with antifreeze. Or just cover a water tank in peltiers and cover the pelitiers in large CPU coolers.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  20. Don't forget to isolate the tubes and waterblock with below ambient water.
    A good quality peltier running under conditions it was made for (and not pumping in more heat or then it can handle or an unstable PSU) should last long.

    My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek:
  21. Well, no need to sweat it, I love the smell of condensation fried mobo in the morning!

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  22. Who doesn't.

    My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek:
  23. Yes.. I know, but unfortionally I ain't ether freeze nor fridge close to my computer... How high would the noicelevel on the CPU-coolers need to be to cool the peltiers? Quite noisy right?

    My idle temp is right now 28C, and that's in a room that is 22C, so I got them under control anyways. But I will probably voltmod my Mobo soon, and then I will go from 1.85 to perhaps up to 2.2 at most, and that will give quite some temps i believe...
  24. Noise level could be very low. In fact, you could make your own coolers for the pelts and use low speed 120mm fans. Hey, that gives me an idea-why not mount four low power pelts under four cheap 60x60mm heatsinks, and then mount one 120mm fan over the top? Heck, you wouldn't even need to do machine work to mount everything, just use a thin layer of JB-Weld to glue everything together (JB weld has good thermal conductivity, slightly worse than paste I believe, same rule for thickness of paste applies to thickness of JB-Weld). I've used JB-Weld for video card sinks before, for both ram and graphics chips.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  25. Sounds quite good :) but how would you mount that to cool the water? Perhaps some kind of copper element, that runs the water back and forth would be optimal, but perhaps hard to get. This starts to sound as an intresting idea, probably nothing I will ever build, but really intresting to talk about :) and how low is low power pelts? Will that cooling be enought to keep the warm side not overheated?

    I live in sweden and think that JB-Weld would be very hard to find. I've never heard bout it before. I know you can get the Arctic Silver 2component glue here, used it for ramsinks on graphics card...

    And btw, if you cool the water effectivly, would it perhaps get too cold? I mean like you will get condensation on all the waterpipes? In that case you would need insulation on quite a few places...
  26. You would want the thing insulated to prevent condensation. You could use almost any metal box that holds water for the tank. Copper everything would be nice. Copper is easy to solder also. By low powered, I mean ~45 watts each, total would be 180 watts, twice as much as needed to bring most high speed CPUs to ambient temp, yet not too hard to cool with a 120mm fan on 40 large heatsinks.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  27. Sure... Yes, coppar seems to be the ultimate material for the water tank... Now perhaps we start to come to the problems I run into quite often.. How to get all the stuff in sweden. The smallest peltier I have ever seen here is 80w. And perhaps 320w is a little bit too much... Anyways it is an interesting idea. How cold do you believe the water will become?
  28. A guess, with 180W of cooling on the water, going to a 90W disapating CPU? Well, one line of thought says it will continue to get colder and colder, but that doesn't take the temp of the pelt into consideration. I think Peltiers get down to around -20F, so without using Calculous to come up with a curve, I'll geuss that you have a scale, 120F on one end and -20F on the other, with the curve biased toward the -20F end about 2/3, gives you around 28F or roughly -3C. Now that doesn't take into account other things like the heating of the tank by surrounding air (even with insulation), so I'll guess between 0C and 15C die temp.

    Without advanced math I think this is a fairly narrow range also, and my mathmatical guesses are usually fairly accurate.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  29. Ok.. sounds pritty good. Now my stable 29C is nice.. though the lower the better :) And after my voldmod I believe the temps will go much higher. I will surely look into this project soon, see if it is even possible to do here. Thanks for all the info :)
  30. Remember that you'll have to use 50/50 antifreeze/water, or premixed antifreeze, because the cold side will likely ice up otherwise. With temp differences this great between the cold and warm sides, you might be able to use convection instead of a pump, as long as you mount the thing level with the water block and with top/bottom inlet/outlet. Warm coolant rises from the water block, enters the tank, gets cooled and becomes dense, sinks to the bottom and enters the water block again.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  31. I know, but I believe I will use my pump anyways, I have my Eheim 1048, and it doesn't sound at all anyways... I will perhaps try to talk to a few persons soon, try to find the material...
  32. The colder the peltiers hot side... the colder the cold side will get. With 0 W heat input on the cold side the temp difference can get as big as 70C... at full Qmax load around 30C.

    My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek:
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