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Case cooling and Noise

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January 24, 2003 11:32:46 PM

Hey everyone, I put together my computer about a year and a half ago. Its a 1.2ghz Tbird with 512 pc2100 and a GF3.. When I first got all my stuff, I wanted to have a nice HSU so I bought a Noise Control Silverado from a company in the UK. I haven't had any problems with the fan, but I would like to reduce the amount of noise comming out of my PC. I have two 80mm case fans, one blowing in the front and another out the back, and two fans in my 350w PSU. I would like to get some quieter fans, these are cheapos that came with the case.. But also I was thinking I could find a way to reduce the amount of fans needed. I only have an 80GB WD JB drive, I think thats pretty quiet. But I was thinking, if I bought some new case fans I could maybe switch the orientation on them so that the ones in the powersupply blow down on my cpu? And maybe I could replace my case fans with big 120mms? Anyone have any experiance getting a 120mm fan to fit in an 80mm spot?

Cheers!

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>

More about : case cooling noise

January 25, 2003 4:50:29 AM

Well, having the air from inside the PSU blowing down onto the HSF is NOT a good idea, since the air inside that PSU is hot (and thats why there's an exhaust fan there to start with), so yould would be turning up the heat on your case and CPU that way. Otherwise, putting in some nice 120mm fans in the PSU and case is a great way to reduce noise without compromising airflow, just take a Dremel or other cutting tool and cut-out your holes and screw-holes in the metal where you want to mount your fans and voila!

Woohoo! Broke the 30-celcius barrier with through the loud and innefficient world of air-cooling! Also, never - NEVER - play with gum in one hand and hair in the other... just trust me.
January 25, 2003 10:25:52 AM

You can remove the rear 80mm casefan when your PSU is a dual fan edition.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek: 
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January 26, 2003 12:43:09 AM

Do you have an specific fan companies you would recommend? Also has anyone ever constructed something like a hardware turbo fan button? that just uped the joice to the fans when more cooling ability was needed?

Also I am thinking of replacing my small video card fan with an 80mm one and attaching with some wires around the heatsink..

And I remember when I was more active on this board that there was a lot of talk about noise reducing materials used to line cases. Does anyone imploy this?

My CPU runs about 47C case 37C when doing basic things, but if I turn off the rear fan it goes up to about CPU 52C and case 39C.

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 26, 2003 5:16:13 AM

Well, there's nothing that I've ever heard of that will allow a fan to run on "turbo" or anything higher than 12V without being moddified, but what does exist is whats called a rheobus or "fan controller" which allows you to vary the speed of the fan, so that when you don't need the cooling, you turn them down untill it gets hot again and you can turn them up at your leisure.
Well, good fan companies, there's a lot of them, though I would probably suggest Pabst as being the most quiet, then Panaflo, and after that its a draw... Vantec Stealth, some of the Enermax, Thermaltake, even some Sunons...
As for accoustic "shielding", a few products exist, though none has really been properly tested and compared... There's "Pax Mate", "Dynamat" and all sorts of other house-brands... your best bet is to find something suitable at Home Depot or the likes and get-off the cheaper way... Pax Mate is under $20, though I doubit it's efficiency, and "Dynamat" varies from about $30 to $45 for the "extreme" version.
Also, you can add rubber or foam washers everywhere that there is vibration, to cut down the noise created by it (hard drives, fans, powersupply mounts, etc, etc)

Woohoo! Broke the 30-celcius barrier with through the loud and innefficient world of air-cooling! Also, never - NEVER - play with gum in one hand and hair in the other... just trust me.
January 26, 2003 6:31:58 PM

I think most of the vibration in my computer seems to come off my HSU so not much I can do about that.

As for the retrostat or retrobus as you called it, I have been inspired to make one.. I'm taking an electrical engineering class in a couple weeks and I think I may be able to make one, the concept isn't too complicated.. Just plug in all of your 3pin fans to a little board thats powered by one or two 4pin PSU conncters.. Then mod you case to install a little dial or something that allows you to adjust the power flowing to the fans. Thats exactly what I would be looking for.. What do you think of that idea? I would probably only use it for my case fans because I have my Silverado running at the lowest voltage. I still would like to replace my GPU fan because I think thats one of the loudest I have.

One of my friend's fancy water cooled case has something like this with a little LCD temperature and RPM monitoring.. This would be much less complicated than that.

Thanks, I'll be sure to report back my findings.. Unless one of you has already tried something like this?

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 26, 2003 6:44:34 PM

Quote:
One of my friend's fancy water cooled case has something like this with a little LCD temperature and RPM monitoring.. This would be much less complicated than that.

I have something like that called the DigiDoc 5, it can control 8 fans and 8 temp sensors.

But slowing a fan down is pretty easy. First you have to figure out how much watt it is, and then you search a rheostat that can handle enough wattage and has enough resistance to slow the fan down.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek: 
January 26, 2003 10:19:57 PM

Get a good thick towell, about the size of your side panel and glue it completely to the inside.
you can do this to both panels for maximum insulation, but the left one (adjacent from mobo) is the most important.
this reduces noise alot!
it dosnt work to well if you have a window though.
and its not exactly the prettiest thing.
BTW i have not done this, my friend did:) 

I dyed my body green, branded an "n" on my chest, and stood on a box in the middle of Time Square for 3 days shouting, "ATI is the Anti-Christ!" to boost sales after nVidia had a losing quarter.
January 26, 2003 10:21:10 PM

Ive heard of modding wire connections to get 7v, and that would give you lower speed, but no control. Ive even heard of those out there that have modded teh lins to run off og the power supply +12 and -12 lines, giving you 24v and one hell of a screaming fan. But this leads to massive noise and 10 minute fan life...

<font color=green>::: Sir, I'd like to return this cpu, it is dead.</font color=green> <font color=blue>::: Its not dead, its resting...</font color=blue>
January 26, 2003 11:44:04 PM

Suhweet, Digidoc is almost exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to pick one up as soon as I can. Where did you get yours and how much did you pay? I found it for about $40. But I also found some other types of fan control mods for less, the Vantec Nexus NXP201, which is more of what I was looking for, but it has annoying always on blue leds.. I guess computer companies just tailer too much to those who want flashy gaming puters' and not those who want it to sit in a corner and run well :) 

Does a towell actually work that well? I don't have case window.. But I have second thoughts about glueing some fabric to the inside of my case..

Anyone know a good place to pick up 3 quiet 80mm fans and 2 120mm's? I guess ill make some sort of air funnel to adapt an 80mm to replace my GPU fan.. Wow this is turning out better than I thought it would.


Thanks


<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 27, 2003 2:05:54 AM

Well, I was going to attempt making a fan controller actually, till I realised that it wasn't worth-it (price-wise) and that I would be restricted as to the minimum speed I could run my fans at (since using a voltage regulating moddification only allows you to bring the fan-speed down to it's minimum operating voltage - usually 7V). I then found-out Vantec was making one, called the "Nexus" which used Pulse Width Modulation... Basically, instead of varying the voltage, this type of fan controller uses bursts of 12V current to power the fan, but varies the interval length of these bursts - essentially, the shorter the time between bursts, the faster the fan speed and vice-versa. Otherwise, replacing the GPU's fan can help, though if you want true silence try going with one of Zalman's fanless heat-pipe designs... <A HREF="http://www.sharkacorp.com" target="_new">http://www.sharkacorp.com&lt;/A> carries the line of them at pretty good prices, so check them out. Also if you're not convinced by those, look at Thermaltake's Crystal Orb, available at <A HREF="http://www.crazypc.com" target="_new">http://www.crazypc.com&lt;/A>... these are good solutions to changing your GPU's heatsink without actually modding anything on to it (ie a low profile CPU heatsink, socket 370 heatsink, etc..)

Woohoo! Broke the 30-celcius barrier with through the loud and innefficient world of air-cooling! Also, never - NEVER - play with gum in one hand and hair in the other... just trust me.
January 27, 2003 2:09:10 AM

I don't know what kind of case you have. Mine is a cheap one. The ports for the case fans consisted of lots of little holes punched in the sheet metal. By cutting out those sections leaving just big 80mm holes it reduced noise considerably. Improved air flow too.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
January 27, 2003 2:52:43 AM

I took a look at those replacement coolers, I don't think the orb would be any better than what I have now, and I don't know if the heatpipe would be enough.

As for the holes in the case, I have those too, but how would removing all of that lower the noise? Per a previous suggestion, I plan on drilling more holes in the front and at the back to allow me to use larger fans. But I was just going to make more holes, not actually remove them all..

Thanks again

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 27, 2003 3:07:57 PM

I didn't mention anything about replacement coolers so you must be refering to someone else.

As for the holes in the case, air "whistling" through small holes tend to make more noise. Test it. Dismount a case fan and see and how less noisy it is. Anyway, the cutouts do work. With nothing to obstruct the air from the fan it's quieter. You can also quiet things down a little more by using rubber bushings to keep both the fan and the mounting screws from touching the case. This cuts down on sympathetic vibrations from the case reducing noise but it's only a small reduction. The hole cutouts reduce noise substantially, perhaps 25%.

If you have room (I did not) go for the 120 mm fans. Probably reduce noise more than my suggestion and it's easier to do. Although, you can do both. Just make bigger cutouts.

By the way, if you do make cutouts you'll want a fan grill, at least for the rear fan. Keeps fingers out of a moving fan.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
January 27, 2003 4:46:14 PM

I don't think my price (I bought it a year ago) and place (I live in The Netherlands) will help you much.
The only disadvantage of this device is that it doesn't support rpm lowering by voltage decreasing or pulse regulation.

I think I'm going to try that towel suggestion out somtime... sounds logic IMO that it reduces the noise.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek: 
January 27, 2003 10:31:17 PM

svol:

Oh no!!! I misread The products ability to monitor, from the products ability to change!! Why would they not include this feature!!! :(  :(  :( 

<b>Oh new idea, I just buy some rheobuses and place them between the DigiDoc and the fans themselves, I feel stupid.. It would require me splitting the wires and getting more 3 pin ends but I guess that wouldn't be such a big deal..</b>



phsstpok:

Thanks for the clarification about the holes. If i get some drill holes in just the right spots I will be able to fit a 120mm intake and 120mm exhost.

Thanks,

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rd382 on 01/27/03 05:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 27, 2003 11:50:58 PM

i have tested a number of so called quiet casefans and the best ive found are the panaflo series. very quiet with decent airflow.

<b>My Computer is so powerful Suron Desires it and mortal men Covert it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 28, 2003 2:18:21 AM

sure, whynot. attach the 3 pin connector to a 3 -> 4 pin adaptor then the adaptor to a rheostat.


<b>My Computer is so powerful Suron Desires it and mortal men Covert it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 28, 2003 4:08:26 AM

lhgpoobaa:

You mentioned you have worked with a number of fans, with regards to the Panaflos, I can't seem to find any with RPM monitoring, is there some reason for this? or have i just not looked at the right site?

I'm going to call that rheostat store tomorrow morning to get better detail, its hard to tell from their specs what the number of wires needed is, I would hope its just 3, so I could get 3 pin fans that hook into a 3 wire rheostat that goes on and hooks into a 3 pin Dogidoc.

I best not get my hopes up, that has f'ed me in the past.

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 28, 2003 4:09:05 PM

You only have to put the rheostat within the black or red wire. It just works like a vraiable resistor.
I suggest you place the black lead comming from your fan to the left pin (with the controlling nob up) and the one going to the PSU in the center one.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek: 
January 28, 2003 9:34:07 PM

Well I ordered the rheostats, and once I get them install alright I will order the DigiDoc and some fans.. I know I need 2 120mm and 3 80mm's, but I've looked around and it looks like all panaflo brand do not have RPM monitoring on the third wire.. So I'm going to have to look into a second quiet brand.

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 28, 2003 10:04:05 PM

Well the slower speed fans with 3 pin connectors are monitored provided you plug them into the motherboard and not a 4pin to molex connector....
With the high speed fans, that are usually too powerful to run off the mobo headers a few have a seperate yellow line for speed monitoring, such as the thermaltake smartfan2 and the high speed Delta 5000rpm screamers.


<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covert it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 28, 2003 11:36:23 PM

Interesting, but I would actually want to have a higher speed one that I could just rheostat down, instead of having a max fan speed that wouldnt allow me to operate the fan at higher than the default rpm.. Any other brands?

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 29, 2003 1:31:12 AM

Well that depends on you. whats the max level of noise you want?

Panaflo, vantec stealth, enermax variable, TT smartfan2, pabst, sunon... they all do good fans, from quiet to noisy

<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covert it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 29, 2003 2:05:27 AM

I want medium, something when on low RPM is very quiet, and when ran on normal RPM can move air even if it creates more noise. In your opinion are vantec's next in line quiet wize? I would get panaflo if they had rpm monitoring.

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
January 29, 2003 5:04:37 AM

The Panaflo's DO have fan monitoring... you just have to get them with a 3pin connector.
The can come with bare wires, 3pin or 4pin connectors.

Panaflo's are super quiet, followed by pabst enermax variable, vantec and others.
The thing that sets panaflo's apart from others is that they use a unique slieve bearing, so it just doesnt have the 'buzz' that you get with ball bearing fans... that said, the buzz isnt bad with the low speed fans.

<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covet it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 29, 2003 10:38:21 PM

Well all of the sites that I've seen seem to say that they don't support RPM monitoring see these:

<A HREF="http://www.pccasegear.com/prod15.htm" target="_new">http://www.pccasegear.com/prod15.htm&lt;/A>
<A HREF="http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/25/204.htm?582" target="_new">http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/25/204.htm?582&lt;/A>

The above one has a pretty big picture of one of the fans, I see that the connecter going from the fan to the fan wire only has 2 wires, so were you trying to tell me that the ones bought with 3 wires they will do RPM monitoring? If you were, I am sorry for the misunderstanding.



<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rd382 on 01/29/03 04:57 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 29, 2003 10:59:54 PM

hmmm. most curious. Seems you are right.
Despite the 3 pin connectors looking like they have 3 physical wires (+ve, ground and the monitoring wire), they say they dont support monitoring.... and as ive got some panaflo's, admittedly ony with 4 pin connectors i know the little plug has space for 3 wires.


Maybe ill have a chat with the guy at pccasegear (thats where i got my fans from)

<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covet it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 30, 2003 4:51:46 PM

Do be sure that the 120mm are not to powerfull as the DigiDoc 5 only supports fans with a maximum wattage of 12W.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on :eek: 
February 7, 2003 11:23:47 PM

ME = wrong

Even with 3 wires, Panaflo do not read RPMS I guess I need to return some of these and get a different brand.. *Sigh*

<font color=green>I can draw tyte give me the damn crayon!</font color=green>
February 8, 2003 4:52:47 AM

Check out www.directron.com. They have a quiet PC section and sell a "shakeproof" washer/grommet thingy for isolating your power supply from the case. You can also use rubber o-rings or grommets to isolate your cooling fans from the case. The idea here is to reduce or eliminate high freq/low freq vibrations that the fans produce and the case amplifies.

Yay, I'm a freakin' noob.
!