Screensavers HSF Review Lastnight

[tuesday630]

Anybody watch The ScreenSavers lastnight and see the cooling review? What'd ya think?

---There may be more than one way to do it, but why would anyone want to remove the fur from a feline?---

 

[phsstpok]

Yeah, I was surprised the Thermalright SLK-800 beat the two water coolers and by 6 degrees when not overclocking. Of course, that's with a rather loud fan.

<A HREF="http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3328340,00.html" target="_new">Link to Screen Savers 2/5/2003 show notes</A>

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[tuesday630]

Yea, I was disappointed he chose such a big fan. It kind of glossed over one of the main reasons some people chose to go water cooling - less noise.

I was suprised that the Thermalright beat the Swiftech. I've been planning on buying a Swiftech, now I'll at least consider the Thermalright.

---There may be more than one way to do it, but why would anyone want to remove the fur from a feline?---

 

[phsstpok]

IIRC the Swiftech has an important thing going for it. It mounts to the motherboard. The SLK800 uses a socket clip. Weighing something like 515 grams is a lot for a clip design.

The big, powerful fan doesn't bother me. Good excuse to install a fan control.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[CaptainNemo]

Why do HSF reviews always use monster fans - surely, one of the reasons for buying a massive chunk of copper is the ability to use a larger-but-much-quieter fan?

 

[phsstpok]

I assume the monster fans are used to get the best results.

I don't think I've seen any reviews of the SLK800 with a more modest fan. I'd like to see one. I remember seeing such reviews of the older AX7.

IIRC the AX7 did pretty well with a powerful fan and reasonably well with a 40 cfm fan but performance dropped off rapidly with less powerful fans than this.

I'd bet the SLK800 would do quite well with low powered fans (if not overclocking).

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[Quetzacoatl]

It's all the deal between the copper/aluninum performance. Just for note, i'm using the Ax7 at the moment on my slightly overclocked Paly 1800+. Now, i've tried different fans and airflow, but the highest difference i've seen from going from a low end, 34cfm Coolermaster fan to a high end 84cfm Vantec tornado is only about 3 degrees celsius (about 42 celsius at load for the Coolermaster, and 39 celsius for the Vantec). Copper seems to be more pronounced, I tried a lower end 21cfm Coolermaster fan and a 38cfm Delta fan on a Global Win CakII-38, and the difference was more like 45 celsius for the Coolermaster, and some 38 Celsius for the Delta. This was on my older 1Ghz thunderbird though, so i'm not sure how it would look on the 1800+. Point being though, the Slk800 would do well with a medium airflow/rpm fan, <i>just not as well</i>

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...

 

[phsstpok]

I would take 42 degrees vs 39 for 34 cfm vs 84.

The AX7 won't fit my motherboard the SLK800 would. It's a bit pricey though.

It's tough keeping a Tbird cool at 1.5 Ghz. I thought about the SLK800 but then I was thinking a Tbred 1800 would have about the same cost as an SLK800 + fan. Tbred 1800 would be easier to cool.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[error_911]

i actually unplugged the two Vantec Tornados i had in my case since they were so loud, even when on "low" with a rheostat, now i'm just clocking regular speeds and keepin a little higher temps, just using the 120mm window mout fan i've got for intake, and the enermax dual-fan PSU for exhaust (with a Vantec Aeroflow heatsink on my Palamino 1400)... but I keep on debating what to switch to - the SLK800, the new SLK900 (once it's available), the Alpha PAL8045 or the Swiftech MCX462... I just don't know. All i DO know is that its all going to be running with PAPST fans - the intake, exhaust, window, heatsink, EVERYTHING will be those nice quiet 12db -> 20cfm PAPST fans on my rheostat so I can sleep at night, heh.

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[Codinerx]

TWO tornados? Thats insane, I have one and it is so loud- although the rheostat does help.

 

[phsstpok]

OK so a Tornado is out of the question! What other 80 mm fans can vary from 80+ cfm to say 20 cfm and do it with less noise? I don't mind noisy at max but I want quiet for DVD playback and normal use.

I knew Pabst produces some decent fans but I didn't know they produced any ultra quiet ones.

I'm still thinking about the SLK800 but I need know how well it works with fans running the above range of cfms.

Anyone know how well a Tbred 1700+ will overclock? Can it reach 1800 Mhz and with only moderate cooling? Is a Volcano 7 enough?

Right now I'm using a Y.S. Tech TMD fan (~40 CFM) with a cheap heatsink (identical to Volcano 5). The TMD fan is what I would call medium loud. It's kind of funky so I don't know if it adapts well to a rheostat. I know it needs a fair amout of startup current so I'm just not sure if it will work.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[error_911]

yeah, two - it is hell. And I put foam insulation in between each and the case, and they still have that ball-bearing sound, you know which one i'm talkin about. Now all I keep 'em for is hardcore overclocking/cooling, and then once I've got all my Papst fans i won't need 'em anymore either (Well, thats a lie but not on a daily basis at least)

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[error_911]

well, Papst fans really are nice and quiet, and with a good heatsink, you can go to alower CFM one, like the other Papst (go to www.directron.com, they have a nice variety) fans, they have some at 26 cfm i believe @20db, and also some nice Panaflos which are quiet with 20-25cfm range. You can probably OC that T-Bird, though NOT with the Volcano 7, no offence, but its garbage... the Volcano 7+ on the other hand is good, though not as good as an SLK800/900 or Swiftech MCX462 or Alpha PAL8045 - or watercooling (duh). I've got that Y.S.-tech TMD fan, and I actually find it loud, and yeah, it works fine on a rheostat (though I use Vantec's new "Nexus" fan controller, so there might be some discrepancy between the two, but i wouldn't think)

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[phsstpok]

Actually I have a Tbird 1.0 that's already overclocked to 1.5 Ghz. I had it just shy of 1.6 but I needed the 60mm Delta fan (the one that sounds like hair dryer). That fan seemed about 3 times louder than the TMD fan and twice as loud as the 32 cfm fan that came with the heatsink. Though the TMD fan is still in the loud category it is quieter than what I was using and it still works quite well. For me, the noise is at the just-barely-tolerable level. I'm happy with the TMD fan.

I'm trying to figure out what I would need for a Tbred. I hear they run about 20% cooler than Palomino.

What I would really like is some combination of a fan and heatsink that can give the maximum cooling yet be reduced to extremely quiet when needed.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[Quetzacoatl]

if you're going ultimate cooling but extremely quiet, why not just get an ultra high end cooler like:

Swiftech MCX462+
Thermalright SLK-800
Alpha Pal8045T

-And a high end fan, hooked up to a rheobus, like one of those Vantecs, or a Delta, Papst even

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...

 

[error_911]

dude, do go for one of those heatsinks, but please, don't get a vantec or a delta, because even on a rheostat they're way too f*cking loud ! ! go for a nice Papst - yes, I know they're a little more expensive but worth it !

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[Quetzacoatl]

gawd, are you some idiot or something? A rheobus <i>Reduces</i> noise. I use one of the Vantec tornados with a rheobus, and at 2400-3000 rpms, the noise is acceptable, and even quiet at 2500rpms.

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...

 

[error_911]

well that all depends on what you consider loud or not. I live in an apartment with my landlord downstairs, and the old f*cker hears anything over a whisper, so I either get to listen to his broomstick bangin on the ceiling, or i turn my fans down so i can hear the tv/dvd/mp3-whatever. I had two vantec tornados on my fan-controller, and I'm tellin you that I couldn't stand the noise <i>EVEN ON LOW</i> - especially when watchin a movie, and forget about doing homework around it, and thats why i suggested some Papst fans, since you can get a nice CFM outa 'em at way-low decibels, <i>idiot</i>.

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[Quetzacoatl]

then you have some strange hearing disorder, because on low settings, at 2400rpms, they make <i>less</i>noise than Vantec Stealth fans, and those things are already quiet enough. You have two and a fan control...okay, I doubt you're going below 3500rpms, I want some proof before you spam me about this. I look at mine, with individual rpm control, as well as a rheostat, if I wanted, I could hookup my Coolermaster 80mm case fans to a rheobus as well, but they're already whisper quiet. The loudest part in my whole system is the freaking hard drive! And it's the quiet model too! Maxtor D740-6L 40gb 7200rpms. Papst fans are a waste of money for what you get, you might as well use Panaflos or Coolermasters, they work just as well, quietly, and cost very little at all.

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...

 

[error_911]

Alright dude, I'll record the sound for ya from say... 1 foot away... and then you can see for yourself (but not right now, I'm tired, so it'll have to wait till tomorrow, heh).

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[CaptainNemo]

(Pal XP2100+ @ 1846Mhz)

I have a Hi/Lo/Off fan controller (6 channels) - the problem with the cheaper fans is that they barely push any air on low rpm settings.

I have a YS-TECH 120mm fan blowing on to my HSF - on full blast, it will knock my SiS burn-in temps down to 39ºC (ambient = 28ºC). At a quieter speed, it will bring the temp down to 42ºC. At a barely audible speed, it is virtually uselees (50ºC +).

If Papst etc. fans can run at the effective quiet speed with less noise, then I don't think they are a waste of money.

 

[phsstpok]

Thanks to everyone for all the help but I seem to be hearing conflicting advice.

Quetzacoatl, first you suggest that the SLK800 isn't the best choice for a medium air flow/RPM fan which to me doesn't bode well for truly low RPM/quiet speeds. However, you later suggest the SLK800 plus a Delta or Vantec Tornado fan plus rheobus for a good compromise of cooling/quiet. (Before I heard people talking about Tornado fans I was thinking Delta).

Maybe I should clarify what I want. I want something as quiet as possible that will run a Tbred 1700+ at stock speed but I also want to be able to overclock. When in overclocking mode I don't mind noise (even a lot of noise). Low noise is more important than top overclocking. Inexpensive is more important than anything else (because I'm cheap).

error_911, you say Tornado can't be quieted even with a rheobus at minium setting.

So I have some questions. Error_911, what are the maximum and minum RPMs of the the Tornado using your rheobus? Which rheobus do you use? What are the resistance specs of the rheostats in your rheobus?. Perhaps they don't provide enough resistance to adequately lower the RPMs to a "quiet" level. To anyone, can the Tornado fan be made to spin at really low RPMS, 2000, 1500, 1000?

From what I have read so far. I'm thinking error_911's rheobus doesn't allow the Tornado's to run at a slow enough speed to be "quiet".

This is probably what I am going to do. Using an automotive rheostat (they're really cheap) I'll try a 80mm Delta fan, probably on one of the heatsinks I already own. Hopefully I'll be able to pick a rheostat with enough resistance range. If not I'll add a resistor but then the fan wouldn't be able to run at full speed so I would also add a bypass switch.

Down the road I know I'll need/want a better heatsink. Still don't know which one.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[Quetzacoatl]

Okay, so I was wrong before, yes, the Slk800 would be reasonable at med air flow/rpm, it just won't offer the same performance at the <i>lowest rpm setting</i>. The swiftech and alpha with aluninum pins will be able to dissipate the heat better at lower rpms, although the difference won't be much more than a few degrees celsius. If you do want to save money then, use a Delta 80mm fan, a rheostat and a two way dipswitch. Hook those up to an Alpha Pal8045T (the things are dirt cheap now), and use the two way dipswitch between regular 12volt current and reduced 7volt current, so you can go to 1450rpms (very, very quiet, but still about 25cfms). Your high end will only be about 3248 rpms on 7 volts, so you'll need to alternate between that and 12 volts for the maximum performance. You'll need to calculate the pull down resistance needed for 12 volts (.5amperes and 3 watts?) for the Delta fan.

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...

 

[error_911]

phsstpok, I use Vantec's NEXUS rheobus - though it's technically NOT a rheobus but a pulse-width-modulator.... it uses pulses of 12V current to run the fans at different speeds, shorter and quicker pulses to run the fan faster, slower intervals to run it, well, slower... the advantage of this type of fan-controller is that you aren't limited by the minimum power requirements, in volts, of each fan. I can run my Torandos down to 1500rpm, yet I still find them loud (DEFINITELY louder than the Y.S.-Tech TMD fan). A good compromise, as for a heatsink is Alpha's PAL8045, its the cheapest of the bunch and will definitely be able to cool your T-bird. As for a fan, Panaflos are on the more inexpensive side, but don't offer much versatility as for fan speed controlling... ACTUALLY I JUST THOUGHT OF IT - the perfect solution for you... just go grab a ThermalTake SMARTFAN 2 - it's perfect for your needs... it's pretty quiet when on low, and it comes with a speed-controller... all for about $12, AND delivers up to 75 cfm.

<b>Moore's Law:</b> <i>Processor speed doubles every 12 to 18 months.</i>
<b>OverClocker's Law:</b> <i>My processor went that fast 12 to 18 months ago.</i>

 

[phsstpok]

Hey, I like the theory behind "pulsed" voltage. Always thought of rheostats as kind of a cheat since they just burn off excess power in the form of heat.

Definitely want to stay away from the Tornados if even at slow speed they are louder than a TMD fan. The TMD is tolerable for normal use but I want less noise for DVD playback and more power for more agressive overclocking.

I'll probably still play with an automotive rheostat and the TMD fan for now. (Come to think of it I might already have one). Soon I'll get the Tbred and go from there.

I do like your Smartfan II suggestion (thanks). It's now on the top of my list of cooling upgrades.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 02/09/03 03:41 PM.</EM></FONT></P>