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I finally realize why liberals wantED Terri Schiavo dead

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Anonymous
June 16, 2005 11:11:24 AM

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Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to justify
Schiavo being starved to death, I came across a few common arguments:

"who would want to live that way"

"it's compassionate to kill her because she's supposedly a vegetable"

"let her die, with whatever dignity she has left"

"I certainly want to live that way so terri wouldn't either"

Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of others.
In particular, they think they have the right to dictate every single
detail of everyone's lives for them. That's where the whole "it takes a
village to raise a child" thing comes from. Liberals think they know
what's best for you, better than you do. And they want to make all our
important decisions for us.

That's why liberals wantED Terri Schiavo to die. They seeN Terri in her
condition, decideD that they wouldn't want to live that way themselves,
and go about murdering her because they wantED to make the decision for
her that she's unfit to live, no matter what she herself would really
want. It's sick, but what would you expect from a group of people so
closely tied to communism and who mock the word of God?

Listen to me very carefully, liberals. You do not have the authority to
decide what standard of living is acceptable for Terri. You do not have
the authority to decide that Terri is better off dead than alive. You
do not have the authority to not decide that murdering Terri by
starving her to death is more merciful than not murdering her and
allowing her to live. Ok? I know this goes against everything Hillary
Clinton, Barbara Streisand, Dianne Feinstein and your college
professors have told you, but you do not dictate other peoples lives
and tell them what to do.
June 16, 2005 11:42:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

djinn wrote: So you think a black life is more important than a white
one? I mean
you obviously supported Terri Schiavo's murder, but here you are
whining when it's done to a black kid.

Hello,

The point made was that you're not whining when it's done to a black
kid. You're a hypocrite. You're a racist. Accept it, try to be better
next time and move on.

You can't read very well either, apparently. Plus, your ability to
form a logic-based opinion is weak.

You rail that liberals don't have the authority to decide about cases
like the Schiavo one, because you're too dense to realize that it was a
Republican judge who decided, not liberals. And he did have that right.

I assume you have a whole brain, unlike Terri. Why don't you try using
it?

Carlos
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 1:00:24 PM

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<< However, its clear he had an emotional investment in her death. He
wanted her dead to punish her family and prove he was right.>>

Nice goal-post shifting.

<< when the worst possible solution was reached >>

Dood, what part of the released autopsy report CONFIRMING HER TOTAL
BRAINDEADNESS did you not understand?
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 1:35:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

her brain was 1/2 the weight it was supposed to be for a normal human.
She died of dehydration.
she recieved no stimukus for over 10 years.
Taking the fact the brain is 90% water and a brain thats used even rarely
would maintain mass
that the autopsy is flawed.


"I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:1118931084.103886.64400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to justify
> Schiavo being starved to death, I came across a few common arguments:
>
> "who would want to live that way"
>
> "it's compassionate to kill her because she's supposedly a vegetable"
>
> "let her die, with whatever dignity she has left"
>
> "I certainly want to live that way so terri wouldn't either"
>
> Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of others.
> In particular, they think they have the right to dictate every single
> detail of everyone's lives for them. That's where the whole "it takes a
> village to raise a child" thing comes from. Liberals think they know
> what's best for you, better than you do. And they want to make all our
> important decisions for us.
>
> That's why liberals wantED Terri Schiavo to die. They seeN Terri in her
> condition, decideD that they wouldn't want to live that way themselves,
> and go about murdering her because they wantED to make the decision for
> her that she's unfit to live, no matter what she herself would really
> want. It's sick, but what would you expect from a group of people so
> closely tied to communism and who mock the word of God?
>
> Listen to me very carefully, liberals. You do not have the authority to
> decide what standard of living is acceptable for Terri. You do not have
> the authority to decide that Terri is better off dead than alive. You
> do not have the authority to not decide that murdering Terri by
> starving her to death is more merciful than not murdering her and
> allowing her to live. Ok? I know this goes against everything Hillary
> Clinton, Barbara Streisand, Dianne Feinstein and your college
> professors have told you, but you do not dictate other peoples lives
> and tell them what to do.
>
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 2:53:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Venger wrote:
> "Bruce Olin" <bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Sjise.66856$xm3.63080@attbi_s21...
> >
> > Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
> > have no right to health care.
>
> That is the most dumbassed thing I've read in Usenet lately, and that's
> saying something.

While the statement you are responding to is an overstatement, there
are lots more dumb, wrong, inflamatory, and ignorantly insulting things
about liberals in the post that started this thread. I only post this
because I remember going around a few times with you on something or
other, and I thought you were basically reasonable, but somewhat in
denial, I thought, about how hatefully ignorant some people on your
side are.--Joe (n.j.) [mWo]
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 3:12:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

There's no point arguing with today's liberals. They have ceased
organized thinking and adopted the tactics of what they used to think
they were fighting. No one who disagress with them has any rights to
think differently. You are a racist, homophobe, hypocrit, idiot,
religious fanatic, etc.

Whatever point you make they will find an instance somewhere that
something equally terrible may have been done. And after they blame Bush
for it they will blame you for it and use it as an excuse for whatever
outrage they are currenly supporting or excusing. Of course you should
beware of accepting their examples as being true since today's liberals
have raised their political leanings to the level of faith. And in a
strangely karmic turnabout, they who hate irratinal faith use the
tactics of the worst religious fanatics because of course since they are
right anything they say or do is justified.

Now to the point, they are probably right that Terri Shiavo was far
closer to brain dead than not. However, she had a loving family that did
not think so and were willing to care for her. Her settlement funds were
long exhausted so her husband no longer had a direct financial interest
in her death. However, its clear he had an emotional investment in her
death. He wanted her dead to punish her family and prove he was right.
Unfortunately so did the left because they are terrified of ever losing
a life vs death decision because of abortion. As to the directly
uninvolved, on the left as on the right there is tendancy to reduce
every issue to some basic truth and thereby ignore any possibility of
rational resolution. Today, the left believes that life is miserable
because its not perfect and therefore death is preferable in most cases
(as long as its someone elses). The right has reacted to this evil by
fighting just as hard in the opposite direction.

It seems obvious to me that the appropriate solution was to let Terri
Schiavo's parents take custody. And for those on the left that want to
scream about the cost of it, check your own hypocrisy at the door. You
scream about the hypocrisy of the right being for life but being
unwilling to pay the way for the poor, but then you turn around and want
quick death for those unable to care for themselves for the very same
reason. If you were willing to do away with public financing for all
social programs I would be more than willing to tell Terri Schiavo's
parents that she was all their problem to care for. What do you want to
bet that the terrible evil people of the selfish right would have raised
money to care for her. You good and generous proper thinking of the left
would not have been charged.

What a terrible political situation we have when the worst possible
solution was reached and the only people who truly benefitted were the
fund raisers on either side of the political spectrum.



I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp wrote:
> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to justify
> Schiavo being starved to death, I came across a few common arguments:
>
> "who would want to live that way"
>
> "it's compassionate to kill her because she's supposedly a vegetable"
>
> "let her die, with whatever dignity she has left"
>
> "I certainly want to live that way so terri wouldn't either"
>
> Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of others.
> In particular, they think they have the right to dictate every single
> detail of everyone's lives for them. That's where the whole "it takes a
> village to raise a child" thing comes from. Liberals think they know
> what's best for you, better than you do. And they want to make all our
> important decisions for us.
>
> That's why liberals wantED Terri Schiavo to die. They seeN Terri in her
> condition, decideD that they wouldn't want to live that way themselves,
> and go about murdering her because they wantED to make the decision for
> her that she's unfit to live, no matter what she herself would really
> want. It's sick, but what would you expect from a group of people so
> closely tied to communism and who mock the word of God?
>
> Listen to me very carefully, liberals. You do not have the authority to
> decide what standard of living is acceptable for Terri. You do not have
> the authority to decide that Terri is better off dead than alive. You
> do not have the authority to not decide that murdering Terri by
> starving her to death is more merciful than not murdering her and
> allowing her to live. Ok? I know this goes against everything Hillary
> Clinton, Barbara Streisand, Dianne Feinstein and your college
> professors have told you, but you do not dictate other peoples lives
> and tell them what to do.
>
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 3:42:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Google Beta User" <madrox99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118937624.535985.200550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> << However, its clear he had an emotional investment in her death. He
> wanted her dead to punish her family and prove he was right.>>
>
> Nice goal-post shifting.
>
> << when the worst possible solution was reached >>
>
> Dood, what part of the released autopsy report CONFIRMING HER TOTAL
> BRAINDEADNESS did you not understand?
>
dood, KRJ is a total wackjob anarchist. he's from the "Janet Reno ordered
David Koresh murdered because he heroically opposed the communist
police-state that America became after FDR's election" school. Ignore him,
and he'll go back to his cabin again.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 4:02:08 PM

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In article <1118931084.103886.64400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>
> Listen to me very carefully, liberals. You do not have the authority to
> decide what standard of living is acceptable for Terri. You do not have
> the authority to decide that Terri is better off dead than alive. You
> do not have the authority to not decide that murdering Terri by
> starving her to death is more merciful than not murdering her and
> allowing her to live. Ok? I know this goes against everything Hillary
> Clinton, Barbara Streisand, Dianne Feinstein and your college
> professors have told you, but you do not dictate other peoples lives
> and tell them what to do.
>
Listen to yourself. Dictator.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 6:10:50 PM

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On 16 Jun 2005 07:11:24 -0700, "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp"
<imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of others.

Hahahahaha.

Great troll, keep it up.

Rob (You cut-and-pasted this and added past tense to it, didn't you?)

Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net

--

Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.

Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!

Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc

"'I'm glad you're having fun, but I cannot join you for there is work
to be done. My dwarven hunter in World of Warcraft is only level 12!
I need to be level 60 come winter, and if you were wise you'd come in
from your silly playtime and do the same.'"
--Corin Tucker's Stalker, The Ant and The Grasshopper
(Something Awful June 11)
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 6:46:38 PM

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"I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:1118931084.103886.64400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to justify
> Schiavo being starved to death

Most Americans regardless of party affinity favored allowing Schiavo to die
per her wishes, and opposed government intervention into this private family
matter.

-Jeff
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 7:17:51 PM

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In article <Uygse.93443$lQ3.12331@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
KRJ <krj650@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> *snip*

You are by far the worst poster in RSPW. You really are.


--
Stefan
http://www.livejournal.com/users/lord_hatred/
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 8:01:01 PM

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"Larry Cottrill" <bearlair@shentel.net> wrote

> > Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of others.
>
> And yet, it was the GOP who stuck their noses into what should have been
> a private, family matter...

Democrats want to be your mommy, and Republicans
want to be your daddy.

--Tedward
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 9:05:54 PM

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"I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:1118931858.261175.310040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| So you think a black life is more important than a white one? I mean
| you obviously supported Terri Schiavo's murder, but here you are
| whining when it's done to a black kid.

Race isn't so much the issue as economic class. Thanks to one of those
medical malpractice lawsuits conservatives hate so much, Schiavo could
afford to pay the outrageous medical bills needed to maintain specialized
care and with it, life. It wasn't that the kid in Texas was black, it was
that the parents were poor. Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
have no right to health care.

Bruce Olin
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 9:05:55 PM

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"Bruce Olin" <bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Sjise.66856$xm3.63080@attbi_s21...
>
> "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:1118931858.261175.310040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> | So you think a black life is more important than a white one? I mean
> | you obviously supported Terri Schiavo's murder, but here you are
> | whining when it's done to a black kid.
>
> Race isn't so much the issue as economic class.

Correct racism is how the rich keep the poor at each other's throats instead
of facing the real enemy, capitalism.

Thanks to one of those
> medical malpractice lawsuits conservatives hate so much, Schiavo could
> afford to pay the outrageous medical bills needed to maintain specialized
> care and with it, life. It wasn't that the kid in Texas was black, it was
> that the parents were poor.

A white family from Kentucky would have faced the same fate.

Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
> have no right to health care.

Dumbocrats are whores to business and the status quo as well. America needs
a French revolution.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 9:13:33 PM

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dood...what part of that matters...brain dead or not, her parents were
willing to shoulder the load. The autopsy report did confirm she died of
thirst. It also confirmed that her brain was irreversibly damaged. It
did not confirm that she was brain dead, but was likely to be in a
vegetative state, which until reasonally was not considered brain dead.
Read your own side's best evidence before screaming.

But assume the autopsy confirmed that she had died fifteen years ago and
somehow her body just refused to die without assistance. Boy, I'm glad
that was the result because if it wasn't then we would have had clear
proof of medical assisted murder and your side of the argument would
have to be screaming even louder about the death penalty or some street
person allowed to die in the cold. The hypocrisy and fanaticism of the
left now actually scares me more than that of the right.

Google Beta User wrote:
> << However, its clear he had an emotional investment in her death. He
> wanted her dead to punish her family and prove he was right.>>
>
> Nice goal-post shifting.
>
> << when the worst possible solution was reached >>
>
> Dood, what part of the released autopsy report CONFIRMING HER TOTAL
> BRAINDEADNESS did you not understand?
>
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 9:20:43 PM

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LOL...thank you for the honor sir. Given the brilliance reasoned
arguments that you have presented, I can't tell you how honored I am to
be singled out for recognition.

What I do enjoy is the more reasonable I try to be, the more heated and
crazy is the response.

Sorry to have rattled your fanaticism again. Keep on keeping on. You're
certainly convincing everyone who already agrees with you. In days gone
by, people who disagree actually tried to reason with one another until
some sort of reasonable consensus was reached. I guess that doesn't make
for good reality TV or the next episode of Real World. Get out your
video game and kill the bad guys. Everything will be alright then.

Why do I bother? LOL what a moron.

Lord Hatred wrote:

> In article <Uygse.93443$lQ3.12331@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
> KRJ <krj650@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>*snip*
>
>
> You are by far the worst poster in RSPW. You really are.
>
>
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 9:32:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Bruce Olin" <bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Sjise.66856$xm3.63080@attbi_s21...
>
> Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
> have no right to health care.

That is the most dumbassed thing I've read in Usenet lately, and that's
saying something. Please detail how this "belief" has manifested itself -
and I really would like a really solid response that demonstrates not just
access inequity, but a real denial of "right to health care".

You've just got to be one of the bottom feeders in the impeach.bush
newsgroup...

Venger
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 9:56:13 PM

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"KRJ" <krj650@bellsouth.net> wrote

> LOL...thank you for the honor sir. Given the brilliance reasoned
> arguments that you have presented, I can't tell you how honored I am to
> be singled out for recognition.
>
> What I do enjoy is the more reasonable I try to be, the more heated and
> crazy is the response.
>
> Sorry to have rattled your fanaticism again. Keep on keeping on. You're
> certainly convincing everyone who already agrees with you. In days gone
> by, people who disagree actually tried to reason with one another until
> some sort of reasonable consensus was reached. I guess that doesn't make
> for good reality TV or the next episode of Real World. Get out your
> video game and kill the bad guys. Everything will be alright then.
>
> Why do I bother? LOL what a moron.

Perhaps you enjoy being trolled? That's better than the
alternative.

--Tedward
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 10:05:10 PM

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"I'm Right" <ImRight@urWrong.net> wrote in message
news:3hdh1hFgg3rsU1@individual.net...
| her brain was 1/2 the weight it was supposed to be for a normal human.
| She died of dehydration.
| she recieved no stimukus for over 10 years.
| Taking the fact the brain is 90% water and a brain thats used even rarely
| would maintain mass
| that the autopsy is flawed.

That's not how it works, Gomer... Dehydration is factored in when
considering autopsy results and knowledge and experience do not add
significantly to brain mass. The most massive known adult brain belonged to
an idiot, and the least massive, normal adult brain belonged to French
writer Anatole France. Einstein's brain checked in at 2.5 lbs, just like
yours or mine.

When brain cells stop receiving input, they die. They don't shrink. The
area they once occupied becomes filled with cerebral spinal fluid. Most
neural tissue cannot regenerate. My 101 year old grandmother has 101 year
old nerve cells in her brain. There are a few areas of the brain which
produce new cells, such as the hippocampus, but they are quite small.

Rehab Speech and Cognitive therapy work on the assumption of brain
plasticity, the ability of adjoining neural tissue to assume the function of
damaged cells. This is only possible if large areas of the cortex are
intact. Terri Schiavo had no functioning cortex.

Bruce Olin
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 10:06:54 PM

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Venger wrote:

> Terri is not Michael's wife. She is still their daughter.

Not anymore.

--
chris
"my point? #@&*! you, that's my point." -- Bucky Katt
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 10:46:25 PM

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<jslater@utnet.utoledo.edu> wrote in message
news:1118944410.027944.105350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Venger wrote:
>> "Bruce Olin" <bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Sjise.66856$xm3.63080@attbi_s21...
>> >
>> > Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
>> > have no right to health care.
>>
>> That is the most dumbassed thing I've read in Usenet lately, and that's
>> saying something.
>
> While the statement you are responding to is an overstatement, there
> are lots more dumb, wrong, inflamatory, and ignorantly insulting things
> about liberals in the post that started this thread.

Perhaps it's because the rest of the paragraph is partisan yet reasoned that
the conclusion is so outlandish.
> I only post this
> because I remember going around a few times with you on something or
> other, and I thought you were basically reasonable, but somewhat in
> denial, I thought, about how hatefully ignorant some people on your
> side are.--Joe (n.j.) [mWo]

Well I hope I'm not hatefully ignorant... there is no shortage of such
people on every side, to be sure.

Venger
June 16, 2005 10:47:54 PM

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On 16 Jun 2005 09:00:24 -0700, "Google Beta User"
<madrox99@hotmail.com> wrote:

><< However, its clear he had an emotional investment in her death. He
>wanted her dead to punish her family and prove he was right.>>
>
>Nice goal-post shifting.
>
><< when the worst possible solution was reached >>
>
>Dood, what part of the released autopsy report CONFIRMING HER TOTAL
>BRAINDEADNESS did you not understand?

The part that said she was brain dead.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 1:31:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

In article <7Ylse.94140$lQ3.61252@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
KRJ <krj650@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> LOL...thank you for the honor sir. Given the brilliance reasoned
> arguments that you have presented, I can't tell you how honored I am to
> be singled out for recognition.
>
> What I do enjoy is the more reasonable I try to be, the more heated and
> crazy is the response.
>
> Sorry to have rattled your fanaticism again.

What fanatacism? I only said you were a horrible poster.

Keep on keeping on. You're
> certainly convincing everyone who already agrees with you.

I didn't realize I was trying to...

In days gone
> by, people who disagree actually tried to reason with one another until
> some sort of reasonable consensus was reached. I guess that doesn't make
> for good reality TV or the next episode of Real World. Get out your
> video game and kill the bad guys. Everything will be alright then.
>

??? Shows how well you know me. I wank to porn all day.

> Why do I bother? LOL what a moron.
>

Good question. All you do is rant without any shred of logic attached
to it. I agree. What a moron.





--
Stefan
http://www.livejournal.com/users/lord_hatred/
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 2:13:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Bruce Olin wrote:
> "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com>
> wrote in message
> news:1118931858.261175.310040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> So you think a black life is more important than a white one? I mean
>> you obviously supported Terri Schiavo's murder, but here you are
>> whining when it's done to a black kid.
>
> Race isn't so much the issue as economic class. Thanks to one of
> those medical malpractice lawsuits conservatives hate so much,
> Schiavo could afford to pay the outrageous medical bills needed to
> maintain specialized care and with it, life. It wasn't that the kid
> in Texas was black, it was that the parents were poor. Conservatives
> seem to believe that poor people have no right to health care.
>
> Bruce Olin

You make a good point....but I still kinda think it is because the kid was
black and W signed that stupid evil law.

--
v/r Beau
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 2:21:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Chris Mihos" <hos@knowspaam.burro.astr.cwru.edu> wrote in message
news:D 8st5r$d4o$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu...
> Venger wrote:
>
>> Terri is not Michael's wife. She is still their daughter.
>
> Not anymore.

Sure she is, just as George Washington is still the first President of the
United States.

If you were to be shown a picture of her in their home, they would say "that
is a picture of our daughter Terri".

At Michael's home, he would not refer to a picture of Terri as his wife.

Again, husband and wife are transient terms that arise from a legal and
social contract. Bonds of kinship are not subject to same.

Venger
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 2:21:38 AM

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"Venger" <venger@augustmail.com> wrote in message
news:RXmse.2384$ks4.1395@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Chris Mihos" <hos@knowspaam.burro.astr.cwru.edu> wrote in message
> news:D 8st5r$d4o$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu...
> > Venger wrote:
> >
> >> Terri is not Michael's wife. She is still their daughter.
> >
> > Not anymore.
>
> Sure she is, just as George Washington is still the first President of the
> United States.
>
> If you were to be shown a picture of her in their home, they would say
"that
> is a picture of our daughter Terri".
>
> At Michael's home, he would not refer to a picture of Terri as his wife.
>
> Again, husband and wife are transient terms that arise from a legal and
> social contract. Bonds of kinship are not subject to same.
>
> Venger
>
you're a wackjob. dead person = WAS our daughter, not IS our daughter.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 3:15:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Venger wrote:
> "Jeff Welch" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118958398.6f1e54474b1b303eb44ed007639d7399@meganetnews2...
> >
> > "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > message news:1118931084.103886.64400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to justify
> >> Schiavo being starved to death
> >
> > Most Americans regardless of party affinity favored allowing Schiavo to
> > die per her wishes,
>
> Can you fax me a copy of those wishes she wrote down? Because I can't find
> my copy...

She didn't write them down, so we'll have to take the word of her
husband.

>
> > and opposed government intervention into this private family matter.
>
> Huh? Are you referring to the court decision stating she wanted to die based
> on... no factual information whatsoever?

Huh? Are you referring to the Schindler's contention that she wanted to
live based on ... no factual information whatsoever? On the one hand,
she communicated her desires to die to three people. On the other, she
told absolutely no one that she wanted to live.

Or the court order to remove the
> feeding tube? Just want to make sure which government intervention is okay
> into this private family matter.

He's probably referring to the state and federal executive and
legislative branches getting involved when the judicial one didn't go
their way.

>
> Curiously - in this private family matter, is Michael's new family part of
> the same private family?

Nope, just him, but nice try anyway.

>Seems to me the ONLY member of Terri's family that
> wanted her starved of food and water was Michael,

And as the husband he takes precedence, but I guess you forgot that
part.

and "family" is certainly
> a stretch when it comes to him, seeing as he was filling his role as husband
> and father with another woman...

Muddying the water might be fun for such an intellectually dishonest
person as yourself but it's really very simple. The parents said one
thing and the husband said the other. The husband has the power. Try
not to let that destroy you.
>
> Venger
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 4:13:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"the Bede" <rspwsownthebede@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:M0ose.12567$R21.12486@lakeread06...
>
>
>> >> Terri is not Michael's wife. She is still their daughter.
>> >
>> > Not anymore.
>>
>> Sure she is, just as George Washington is still the first President of
>> the
>> United States.
>>
>> If you were to be shown a picture of her in their home, they would say
> "that
>> is a picture of our daughter Terri".
>>
>> At Michael's home, he would not refer to a picture of Terri as his wife.
>>
>> Again, husband and wife are transient terms that arise from a legal and
>> social contract. Bonds of kinship are not subject to same.
>>
>> Venger
>>
> you're a wackjob. dead person = WAS our daughter, not IS our daughter.

You're a dysfunctional illiterate nimrod. Figures - probably another
impeach.bush lobotomite.

If you showed someone a picture of your dead father, would you say "that is
my father", or "that was my father"? Do you visit the graveyard to see the
headstone of your former mother? Do you tell the groundskeeper "my former
mother is buried here"? Harebrained idiot.

Venger
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 4:21:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Jeff Welch" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118958398.6f1e54474b1b303eb44ed007639d7399@meganetnews2...
>
> "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:1118931084.103886.64400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to justify
>> Schiavo being starved to death
>
> Most Americans regardless of party affinity favored allowing Schiavo to
> die per her wishes,

Can you fax me a copy of those wishes she wrote down? Because I can't find
my copy...

> and opposed government intervention into this private family matter.

Huh? Are you referring to the court decision stating she wanted to die based
on... no factual information whatsoever? Or the court order to remove the
feeding tube? Just want to make sure which government intervention is okay
into this private family matter.

Curiously - in this private family matter, is Michael's new family part of
the same private family? Seems to me the ONLY member of Terri's family that
wanted her starved of food and water was Michael, and "family" is certainly
a stretch when it comes to him, seeing as he was filling his role as husband
and father with another woman...

Venger
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 4:36:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Venger" <venger@augustmail.com> wrote in message
news:AAose.2407$ks4.2390@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
|
| "the Bede" <rspwsownthebede@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:M0ose.12567$R21.12486@lakeread06...
| >
| >
| >> >> Terri is not Michael's wife. She is still their daughter.
| >> >
| >> > Not anymore.
| >>
| >> Sure she is, just as George Washington is still the first President of
| >> the
| >> United States.
| >>
| >> If you were to be shown a picture of her in their home, they would say
| > "that
| >> is a picture of our daughter Terri".
| >>
| >> At Michael's home, he would not refer to a picture of Terri as his
wife.
| >>
| >> Again, husband and wife are transient terms that arise from a legal and
| >> social contract. Bonds of kinship are not subject to same.
| >>
| >> Venger
| >>
| > you're a wackjob. dead person = WAS our daughter, not IS our daughter.
|
| You're a dysfunctional illiterate nimrod. Figures - probably another
| impeach.bush lobotomite.
|
| If you showed someone a picture of your dead father, would you say "that
is
| my father", or "that was my father"?

In that case, IS is appropriate, however the is refers to the image, not the
person of the father.

Do you visit the graveyard to see the
| headstone of your former mother? Do you tell the groundskeeper "my former
| mother is buried here"?

In this case, the IS refers to the remains of the mother. If "buried" is
used as a verb, then it would be "was buried here"

Harebrained idiot.
|
| Venger
|
Didn't take much English, I gather.

Bruce Olin|
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 11:49:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Venger wrote:
> <jslater@utnet.utoledo.edu> wrote in message
> news:1118944410.027944.105350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Venger wrote:
> >> "Bruce Olin" <bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:Sjise.66856$xm3.63080@attbi_s21...
> >> >
> >> > Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
> >> > have no right to health care.
> >>
> >> That is the most dumbassed thing I've read in Usenet lately, and that's
> >> saying something.
> >
> > While the statement you are responding to is an overstatement, there
> > are lots more dumb, wrong, inflamatory, and ignorantly insulting things
> > about liberals in the post that started this thread.
>
> Perhaps it's because the rest of the paragraph is partisan yet reasoned that
> the conclusion is so outlandish.

Fair enough.

> > I only post this
> > because I remember going around a few times with you on something or
> > other, and I thought you were basically reasonable, but somewhat in
> > denial, I thought, about how hatefully ignorant some people on your
> > side are.--Joe (n.j.) [mWo]
>
> Well I hope I'm not hatefully ignorant... there is no shortage of such
> people on every side, to be sure.
>
> Venger

I hope you understood my paragraph above to mean that I don't think of
you that way. And my only point is to agree with your last thought
above.--Joe
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 5:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp wrote:
> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to
> justify Schiavo being starved to death, I came across a few common
> arguments:
>
> "who would want to live that way"
>
> "it's compassionate to kill her because she's supposedly a vegetable"
>
> "let her die, with whatever dignity she has left"
>
> "I certainly want to live that way so terri wouldn't either"
>
> Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of
> others. In particular, they think they have the right to dictate
> every single detail of everyone's lives for them. That's where the
> whole "it takes a village to raise a child" thing comes from.
> Liberals think they know what's best for you, better than you do. And
> they want to make all our important decisions for us.

No, keeping her alive was dictating how she lives. It's the damned
conservatives that want to dictate how we all live and die. Everything
should be up to the person in question. That's why we have prohibition of
drugs. Because the conservatives want to tell us how and what we can do to
our own bodies. And she has stated to her husband and friends that she
wouldn't have wanted to live like that.

> That's why liberals wantED Terri Schiavo to die. They seeN Terri in
> her condition, decideD that they wouldn't want to live that way
> themselves, and go about murdering her because they wantED to make
> the decision for her that she's unfit to live, no matter what she
> herself would really want. It's sick, but what would you expect from
> a group of people so closely tied to communism and who mock the word
> of God?

More conservative religious bullshit.

> Listen to me very carefully, liberals. You do not have the authority
> to decide what standard of living is acceptable for Terri. You do not
> have the authority to decide that Terri is better off dead than
> alive. You do not have the authority to not decide that murdering
> Terri by starving her to death is more merciful than not murdering
> her and allowing her to live. Ok? I know this goes against everything
> Hillary Clinton, Barbara Streisand, Dianne Feinstein and your college
> professors have told you, but you do not dictate other peoples lives
> and tell them what to do.

Neither do the conservatives. Keeping her alive was unnatural and against
what your so-called god wanted.

Ryan
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 5:45:43 PM

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"Bruce Olin" <bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iWose.70427$nG6.60032@attbi_s22...
>
> | >> Again, husband and wife are transient terms that arise from a legal
> and
> | >> social contract. Bonds of kinship are not subject to same.
> | >>
> | >> Venger
> | >>
> | > you're a wackjob. dead person = WAS our daughter, not IS our
> daughter.
> |
> | You're a dysfunctional illiterate nimrod. Figures - probably another
> | impeach.bush lobotomite.
> |
> | If you showed someone a picture of your dead father, would you say "that
> is
> | my father", or "that was my father"?
>
> In that case, IS is appropriate, however the is refers to the image, not
> the
> person of the father.

Dude, IS is always appropriate. If your dad was MIA in 'Nam, would you say
"he might be my father"? You are losing this point, badly, because either
you are being obstinate and argumentative, or because your alien leaders
didn't teach you this before sending you to this planet.

> Do you visit the graveyard to see the
> | headstone of your former mother? Do you tell the groundskeeper "my
> former
> | mother is buried here"?
>
> In this case, the IS refers to the remains of the mother. If "buried" is
> used as a verb, then it would be "was buried here"

JESUS CRIMINEY, WHERE IS SHE BURIED NOW? Isn't she STILL buried here? Was is
transitive and unless you are going to relocate the remains, indicates a
transitive state for something that isn't, using "was buried" as a
transitive and past participle is less preferred than buried as an
adjective. That isn't even the question, because while is and was are both
accurate statements, the FUNCTIONAL part of the statement is "former
mother" - which you conveniently ignored. So - you would tell someone "my
former mother was/is buried here"? Stay on target. You can yield this point
and still think Terri should have had her tube removed...

> Harebrained idiot.
> |
> | Venger
> |
> Didn't take much English, I gather.

Plenty, chum. Harebrained, adjective, idiot, noun. Diagnosis [CONFIRMED].

Venger
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 5:52:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

<omarenoryt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1118989062.820395.193000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> > He made promise to her that he wouldn't allow her to exist in a
>>> > vegetative
>> > state.
>>
>> Strange that it unmentioned until years after the incident, including
>> during
>> his damage suit.
>
> Except for it being completely unrelated to the damage suit.

Except that she was in the PVS at the time of his court testimony, and his
award request was based on the money needed to keep Terri alive for the rest
of her natural days. Her removal from life support is CRITICAL the damage
suit. If she didn't want to be kept alive in her current state, then asking
for money to keep her alive in her current state is a fraudlent request. Or,
it could be that she expressed no such desires - which is most likely.

>> > Until that promise was fulfilled, he wasn't able to move on.
>>
>> How heroic!
>>
>> > He didn't gain anything by her death that couldn't have been achieved
>> > by
>> > divorcing her.
>>
>> Just satisfaction.
>
> But not money.

Never claimed he was in it for the money. He wasn't in it for jellybeans
either. Point being?

> That really sticks in your craw, huh?

Um, no, considering I have no information indicating whether he is
financially helped or harmed by her passing. There are accusations about,
but I have no firm information, so I have not made a point of it.

What sticks in my craw is that Michael Schiavo's only relationship to Terri
was as husband, and when he took another woman and sired a family with her,
that relationship is null and void. He is not a good faith actor.

Venger
June 17, 2005 7:19:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:05:54 GMT, "Bruce Olin"
<bruce_olin@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote in
>message news:1118931858.261175.310040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>| So you think a black life is more important than a white one? I mean
>| you obviously supported Terri Schiavo's murder, but here you are
>| whining when it's done to a black kid.
>
>Race isn't so much the issue as economic class. Thanks to one of those
>medical malpractice lawsuits conservatives hate so much, Schiavo could
>afford to pay the outrageous medical bills needed to maintain specialized
>care and with it, life.

The hospice that Schiavo was in classified her as indigent and was
caring for her for free. Medicaid was paying for any medicine. If the
mom of the black kid had been able to find another facility that would
have taken care of her kid for free he would have been transferred
there. He probably wouldn't have lived very long, though. His doctors
decided that any treatment was futile and that the kid was suffering
and terminal, slowly suffocating to death, even on a respirator.

It wasn't that the kid in Texas was black, it was
>that the parents were poor. Conservatives seem to believe that poor people
>have no right to health care.
>
>Bruce Olin
>
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 8:28:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:23:20 GMT, Spike <spike@spike.spike> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:05:36 GMT, Lamont Cranston <Lamont@Shadow.com>
>wrote:

>>He made promise to her that he wouldn't allow her to exist in a
>>vegetative state.
>
>Why did it take him a few years to remember that?

I think it's more likely that it took a few years for him to realize
that there was no way she was going to get better.

Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net

--

Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.

Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!

Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc

"These days all the war games are like 'man down, we need an artillery
strike, bla bla bla.' Where is my version of the invasion of Iraq
where Saddam is a hundred feet tall and shooting ghosts out of his
head or where Afghanistan is defended by a dragon that drops eggs on
you?"
--Zack "Geist Editor" Parsons, Fashion SWAT "Retro SWAT 4"
June 17, 2005 9:41:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:25:07 -0400, "DarkSheer"
<rdettl@_____dundee.net> wrote:


>> Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of
>> others. In particular, they think they have the right to dictate
>> every single detail of everyone's lives for them. That's where the
>> whole "it takes a village to raise a child" thing comes from.
>> Liberals think they know what's best for you, better than you do. And
>> they want to make all our important decisions for us.
>
>No, keeping her alive was dictating how she lives.

And obviously... denying her nutrition and hydration was dictating how
she died.

It's the damned
>conservatives that want to dictate how we all live and die. Everything
>should be up to the person in question. That's why we have prohibition of
>drugs. Because the conservatives want to tell us how and what we can do to
>our own bodies. And she has stated to her husband and friends that she
>wouldn't have wanted to live like that.

Did she state that she would like to die like that?
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 11:04:26 PM

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<omarenoryt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1118988936.729426.178460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>> Can you fax me a copy of those wishes she wrote down? Because I can't
>> find
>> my copy...
>
> She didn't write them down, so we'll have to take the word of her
> husband.

The word of her husband should have been taken with an ocean's worth of
salt.

>> > and opposed government intervention into this private family matter.
>>
>> Huh? Are you referring to the court decision stating she wanted to die
>> based
>> on... no factual information whatsoever?
>
> Huh? Are you referring to the Schindler's contention that she wanted to
> live based on ... no factual information whatsoever?

People do not need to express a desire to LIVE, numbskull. That is the
natural state of the human body. I assume that YOU want to live, though you
have not expressed to me such a desire. Should we schedule a court date?

> On the one hand,
> she communicated her desires to die to three people.
> On the other, she
> told absolutely no one that she wanted to live.

When was the last time you updated your legal documents to indicate that you
"want to live"? Someone get my varmint gun, the harebrains are positively
overrunning the thread...

> Or the court order to remove the
>> feeding tube? Just want to make sure which government intervention is
>> okay
>> into this private family matter.
>
> He's probably referring to the state and federal executive and
> legislative branches getting involved when the judicial one didn't go
> their way.

Seeing as it is the legislative and executives roles to make and carry out
the law, which act in particular strikes you as grasping?

>> Curiously - in this private family matter, is Michael's new family part
>> of
>> the same private family?
>
> Nope, just him, but nice try anyway.

Not him, which is the point, but nice try to you too.

>>Seems to me the ONLY member of Terri's family that
>> wanted her starved of food and water was Michael,
>
> And as the husband he takes precedence, but I guess you forgot that
> part.

I was not the one who called this a "private family matter", therefore your
point is moot, unless you wish to make it to the other poster. I will
reiterate on this point, however, that Michael Schiavo was a commonlaw
husband to another woman and father to her children, any stake as Terri's
husband was dissovled uner those conditions. You can be husband to only one
wife.

> and "family" is certainly
>> a stretch when it comes to him, seeing as he was filling his role as
>> husband
>> and father with another woman...
>
> Muddying the water might be fun

Did you take an intro to rhetoric class this semester? The water isn't
"muddied" by questioning Michael Schiavo's extra-marital affair and bastard
children - it goes to the HEART of his credibility as acting in her
interest.

> for such an intellectually dishonest
> person as yourself but it's really very simple.

If it's a point you're making, it would have to be.

> The parents said one
> thing and the husband said the other. The husband has the power. Try
> not to let that destroy you.

I'm not sure there's even lint in the big bag of nothing you've brought to
this thread. You've brought - she never said she wanted to live, and Michael
Shiavo is her husband so nanny nanny boo boo. What are you, 12?

Venger
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 12:48:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Rob Browning" <pluvius3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3hc6b1d9v5j1re7p1r2c2412rsldtlkquk@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:23:20 GMT, Spike <spike@spike.spike> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:05:36 GMT, Lamont Cranston <Lamont@Shadow.com>
>>wrote:
>
>>>He made promise to her that he wouldn't allow her to exist in a
>>>vegetative state.
>>
>>Why did it take him a few years to remember that?
>
> I think it's more likely that it took a few years for him to realize
> that there was no way she was going to get better.

I would find that valid, had he not taken up with this other woman. You
don't take up with another woman if you think your comatose wife will
recover. Unless you want her to wake and put YOU into a persistent
vegetative state...

Venger
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 12:48:03 AM

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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:48:02 GMT, "Venger" <venger@augustmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Rob Browning" <pluvius3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3hc6b1d9v5j1re7p1r2c2412rsldtlkquk@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:23:20 GMT, Spike <spike@spike.spike> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:05:36 GMT, Lamont Cranston <Lamont@Shadow.com>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>He made promise to her that he wouldn't allow her to exist in a
>>>>vegetative state.
>>>
>>>Why did it take him a few years to remember that?
>>
>> I think it's more likely that it took a few years for him to realize
>> that there was no way she was going to get better.
>
>I would find that valid, had he not taken up with this other woman. You

How is that relevant? He wanted to move on with his life, and in fact
Terri's parents encouraged him to do so. That has nothing to do with
also wanting to make sure that Terri had no chance of recovery before
allowing her to die.

Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net

--

Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.

Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!

Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc

"These days all the war games are like 'man down, we need an artillery
strike, bla bla bla.' Where is my version of the invasion of Iraq
where Saddam is a hundred feet tall and shooting ghosts out of his
head or where Afghanistan is defended by a dragon that drops eggs on
you?"
--Zack "Geist Editor" Parsons, Fashion SWAT "Retro SWAT 4"
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 1:43:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Simple. LiEberals LIKE killing people.

Just ask all the babies they've murdered.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 3:28:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

"Rob Browning" <pluvius3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2oe6b1pmsr2mg972k8mju3qeak7hk4s4h6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:48:02 GMT, "Venger" <venger@augustmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> I think it's more likely that it took a few years for him to realize
>>> that there was no way she was going to get better.
>>
>>I would find that valid, had he not taken up with this other woman. You
>
> How is that relevant?

Are you serious? It took him a few years to realize she wouldn't be getting
better, but a shorter time to shack up with someone? One would presume the
former would precede the latter.

> He wanted to move on with his life, and in fact
> Terri's parents encouraged him to do so.

You know I've seen this parroted, but have seen only information that
indicated they encouraged him to divorce her, not date, and not just a year
and a half after the incident. Do you have information where the Schiavo's
confirmed that they, just 18 months removed, encouraged him to live with
another woman/date/whatever? Because that's what he did...and it's not with
the woman he is with now.

> That has nothing to do with
> also wanting to make sure that Terri had no chance of recovery before
> allowing her to die.

Unfortunately, once the lawsuit was settled, the rehabilitation stopped, and
the DNR and refusal to treat began. There is no mention of her "wishes"
prior to this point, back in 1993.

Venger
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 3:33:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Venger wrote:
> "Rob Browning" <pluvius3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2oe6b1pmsr2mg972k8mju3qeak7hk4s4h6@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:48:02 GMT, "Venger" <venger@augustmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> I think it's more likely that it took a few years for him to
>>>> realize that there was no way she was going to get better.
>>>
>>> I would find that valid, had he not taken up with this other woman.
>>> You
>>
>> How is that relevant?
>
> Are you serious? It took him a few years to realize she wouldn't be
> getting better, but a shorter time to shack up with someone? One
> would presume the former would precede the latter.

I would say allowing someone to get better is a shitload more importaint
that a marrage. Life and death = 8, marrage commitment = 4. I hate my ex
girlfriend, but I would still do anything if it meant she could come out of
a coma like state.

>> He wanted to move on with his life, and in fact
>> Terri's parents encouraged him to do so.
>
> You know I've seen this parroted, but have seen only information that
> indicated they encouraged him to divorce her, not date, and not just
> a year and a half after the incident. Do you have information where
> the Schiavo's confirmed that they, just 18 months removed, encouraged
> him to live with another woman/date/whatever? Because that's what he
> did...and it's not with the woman he is with now.

He gave up on the marrage, but he didn't give up on her getting better.
Can't you see how much of a difference of importaince the two are?

Ryan
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 3:51:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

KRJ wrote:
> There's no point arguing with today's liberals. They have ceased
> organized thinking and adopted the tactics of what they used to think
> they were fighting. No one who disagress with them has any rights to
> think differently. You are a racist, homophobe, hypocrit, idiot,
> religious fanatic, etc.

It's the conservatives you can't argue with. To think bush is a good man,
drugs should be illegal, and religion is everything, is just stupid.

> Whatever point you make they will find an instance somewhere that
> something equally terrible may have been done. And after they blame
> Bush for it they will blame you for it and use it as an excuse for
> whatever outrage they are currenly supporting or excusing. Of course
> you should beware of accepting their examples as being true since
> today's liberals have raised their political leanings to the level of
> faith. And in a strangely karmic turnabout, they who hate irratinal
> faith use the tactics of the worst religious fanatics because of
> course since they are right anything they say or do is justified.
>
> Now to the point, they are probably right that Terri Shiavo was far
> closer to brain dead than not. However, she had a loving family that
> did not think so and were willing to care for her. Her settlement
> funds were long exhausted so her husband no longer had a direct
> financial interest in her death. However, its clear he had an
> emotional investment in her death. He wanted her dead to punish her
> family and prove he was right. Unfortunately so did the left because
> they are terrified of ever losing a life vs death decision because of
> abortion. As to the directly uninvolved, on the left as on the right
> there is tendancy to reduce every issue to some basic truth and
> thereby ignore any possibility of rational resolution. Today, the
> left believes that life is miserable because its not perfect and
> therefore death is preferable in most cases (as long as its someone
> elses). The right has reacted to this evil by fighting just as hard
> in the opposite direction.

Bullshit, he wanted her dead because he didn't want her in a limbo of her
own body. Sure she had a loving family, but all they cared about was her
being alive, no matter what condition she was in. That, in my oppinion, is
selfish and evil. I could see if there was hope of recovery, but her
condition would not have changed no matter how long she lived.

I, myself, have a good outlook on life, I'm happy. But to live like a
zombie, to have my soul trapped in my own body, now that's hell. But it all
comes down to what she would have wanted, that's all that matters. He was
in it for her interest, there was no other reason.

It's funny how conservatives delude themselves into thinking they are always
right.

> It seems obvious to me that the appropriate solution was to let Terri
> Schiavo's parents take custody. And for those on the left that want to
> scream about the cost of it, check your own hypocrisy at the door. You
> scream about the hypocrisy of the right being for life but being
> unwilling to pay the way for the poor, but then you turn around and
> want quick death for those unable to care for themselves for the very
> same reason. If you were willing to do away with public financing for
> all social programs I would be more than willing to tell Terri
> Schiavo's parents that she was all their problem to care for. What do
> you want to bet that the terrible evil people of the selfish right
> would have raised money to care for her. You good and generous proper
> thinking of the left would not have been charged.

Her husband was looking out for HER best interest. Her parents were only
looking out for their own and not wanting to loose a kid.

> What a terrible political situation we have when the worst possible
> solution was reached and the only people who truly benefitted were the
> fund raisers on either side of the political spectrum.

No, Terri benefited by finally getting put out of her misery. And that is
the ONLY benefit that matters.

Ryan
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 3:54:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Rob Browning wrote:
> On 16 Jun 2005 07:11:24 -0700, "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp"
> <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of
>> others.
>
> Hahahahaha.
>
> Great troll, keep it up.
>
> Rob (You cut-and-pasted this and added past tense to it, didn't you?)

That's exactly what I was thinking. heh.

Ryan
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 4:01:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Venger wrote:
> "Jeff Welch" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118958398.6f1e54474b1b303eb44ed007639d7399@meganetnews2...
>>
>> "I'm a djinn, wanna rub my lamp" <imagenierubmylamp@hotmail.com>
>> wrote in message
>> news:1118931084.103886.64400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> Reading these posts and seeing liberals pathetically attempt to
>>> justify Schiavo being starved to death
>>
>> Most Americans regardless of party affinity favored allowing Schiavo
>> to die per her wishes,
>
> Can you fax me a copy of those wishes she wrote down? Because I can't
> find my copy...

Her friends and husband were witnesses and therefore considered.

>> and opposed government intervention into this private family matter.
>
> Huh? Are you referring to the court decision stating she wanted to
> die based on... no factual information whatsoever? Or the court order
> to remove the feeding tube? Just want to make sure which government
> intervention is okay into this private family matter.

No, it was the guardians wishes. It should be up to the guardian if her
wishes weren't stated to anyone.

> Curiously - in this private family matter, is Michael's new family
> part of the same private family? Seems to me the ONLY member of
> Terri's family that wanted her starved of food and water was Michael,
> and "family" is certainly a stretch when it comes to him, seeing as
> he was filling his role as husband and father with another woman...

But really, would you want to put your life perminantly on hold? I know I
would want to get on with my life. It doesn't mean I wouldn't love her any
less. He was doing what he thought was in her best interest.

Ryan
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 4:11:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Venger wrote:
> <omarenoryt@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1118988936.729426.178460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>> Can you fax me a copy of those wishes she wrote down? Because I
>>> can't find
>>> my copy...
>>
>> She didn't write them down, so we'll have to take the word of her
>> husband.
>
> The word of her husband should have been taken with an ocean's worth
> of salt.
>
>>>> and opposed government intervention into this private family
>>>> matter.
>>>
>>> Huh? Are you referring to the court decision stating she wanted to
>>> die based
>>> on... no factual information whatsoever?
>>
>> Huh? Are you referring to the Schindler's contention that she wanted
>> to live based on ... no factual information whatsoever?
>
> People do not need to express a desire to LIVE, numbskull. That is the
> natural state of the human body. I assume that YOU want to live,
> though you have not expressed to me such a desire. Should we schedule
> a court date?

Not if I have to live like she did, and with no hope of recovery.

>> On the one hand,
>> she communicated her desires to die to three people.
>> On the other, she
>> told absolutely no one that she wanted to live.
>
> When was the last time you updated your legal documents to indicate
> that you "want to live"? Someone get my varmint gun, the harebrains
> are positively overrunning the thread...

I've made it clear to everyone I know that if there is less than 50% chance
of recovery, I don't want to be artificialy kept alive. Why would anyone
want to live like that?

>> Or the court order to remove the
>>> feeding tube? Just want to make sure which government intervention
>>> is okay
>>> into this private family matter.
>>
>> He's probably referring to the state and federal executive and
>> legislative branches getting involved when the judicial one didn't go
>> their way.
>
> Seeing as it is the legislative and executives roles to make and
> carry out the law, which act in particular strikes you as grasping?

But the laws were already in effect, they tried to change them to get their
way. Typical republican.

>>> Curiously - in this private family matter, is Michael's new family
>>> part of
>>> the same private family?
>>
>> Nope, just him, but nice try anyway.
>
> Not him, which is the point, but nice try to you too.
>
>>> Seems to me the ONLY member of Terri's family that
>>> wanted her starved of food and water was Michael,
>>
>> And as the husband he takes precedence, but I guess you forgot that
>> part.
>
> I was not the one who called this a "private family matter",
> therefore your point is moot, unless you wish to make it to the other
> poster. I will reiterate on this point, however, that Michael Schiavo
> was a commonlaw husband to another woman and father to her children,
> any stake as Terri's husband was dissovled uner those conditions. You
> can be husband to only one wife.

Is there a law that says a man can only love one person? Aparently the law
was on his side because he was still considered her husband.

>> and "family" is certainly
>>> a stretch when it comes to him, seeing as he was filling his role as
>>> husband
>>> and father with another woman...
>>
>> Muddying the water might be fun
>
> Did you take an intro to rhetoric class this semester? The water isn't
> "muddied" by questioning Michael Schiavo's extra-marital affair and
> bastard children - it goes to the HEART of his credibility as acting
> in her interest.

Just being there and fighting for her shows he was acting in her interest.
Why can't you grasp that? Who cares if he didn't go numb from the neck
down. Terri was a vegitable, not Michael. He needed to go on with his
life, but he still wanted to do what was best for her. Why else would he
put up with such an inconvienience when he could easily have given over
custody to her parents?

Ryan
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 4:13:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Spike wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:25:07 -0400, "DarkSheer"
> <rdettl@_____dundee.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> Liberals have always had a problem respecting the boundaries of
>>> others. In particular, they think they have the right to dictate
>>> every single detail of everyone's lives for them. That's where the
>>> whole "it takes a village to raise a child" thing comes from.
>>> Liberals think they know what's best for you, better than you do.
>>> And they want to make all our important decisions for us.
>>
>> No, keeping her alive was dictating how she lives.
>
> And obviously... denying her nutrition and hydration was dictating how
> she died.

How many times does it have to be said, she wasn't denied anything.

> It's the damned
>> conservatives that want to dictate how we all live and die.
>> Everything should be up to the person in question. That's why we
>> have prohibition of drugs. Because the conservatives want to tell
>> us how and what we can do to our own bodies. And she has stated to
>> her husband and friends that she wouldn't have wanted to live like
>> that.
>
> Did she state that she would like to die like that?

It's 100 times better than staying how she was. If euthinasia was legal we
wouldn't have that problem.

Ryan
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 5:40:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.sport.football.college,alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.impeach.bush (More info?)

Pope TardSmack I, RSPW's TRUE and ONLY Pope wrote:
> Simple. LiEberals LIKE killing people.
>
> Just ask all the babies they've murdered.

And conservatives like to prolong suffering.
!