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Tully Voltage (Benchmarks are in!!!)

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February 20, 2003 8:32:47 AM

Hi there!

I've been messing with my PIII 1.4 tully, and here's the story so far...(Abit ST6-R, 512MB PC-150)

Pushed up in increments of 1. At 140 and 145 FSB I took Sandra Benchmarks and temps. Temps were 1-2 C higher. I also ran the CPU burn-in at 145FSB for 10 re-runs. No probs!

At 148 FSB I had explorer.exe close on me. Same for 149 FSB and 150 FSB. Also after taking the CPU voltage from 1.450V to 1.475V, explorer.exe still did it's thing at 150 FSB. So now it's at 1.500V

What's the limit on core voltage here? Just in case it starts to fall over in the event of CD-R burning or heavy stress testing etc.

That's it!

Funnily enough, Sandra 2002 Pro reports my FSB as 1 higher than it's set in my BIOS, regardless of the setting. So it says I'm at 1585MHz when it's actually 1575MHz, but that's ok. In the CPU tests, the only thing beating me is the iSSE2 score of the P4 2GHz, as I don't have that. CPU Multimedia Scores are way up.

I thoroughly recommend this one if you're looking for a S370 FCPGA/2 upgrade.

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 20, 2003 7:13:54 PM

What, again, is nominal for the Tully's? 1.5V doesn't seem all that high to me, but I'd want to search for tales of 1.5V mortalities on that part before I tried it. At any rate, I think you should be most worried about heat. If for the speed you want , you have stability, and the temps don't seem that bad, then why not run it that way?
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February 20, 2003 10:42:20 PM

Guess no one cares.

Tullys are nice but they came too late to make an impact.

I wish Intel had skipped the whole Willamette introduction and went with Tualletin (sp?) for about 6-8 months. It would have made life so much more pleasant if no one ended up owning a crappy 1.3-1.7 Ghz Willamette based system. Tullies would have been so much better.

As for overclocking them today, Tualletin seems inconsequential compared to Northwood 1.8 that will easy do 2.4+ Ghz and expensive compared to Tbred B 1700+ that only costs about $60 USD and can overclock to 2.1+ Ghz to boot.

Back to your circumstance... Don't know if it's your northbridge, memory, temps or what that is limiting your bus speed, though. What chipset is on the ST6-R? Too bad it's so hard to get memory faster than PC150 these days, and even that's hard to find.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 20, 2003 11:02:53 PM

I've run between1.65v to 1.75v for over 6 months now. P3 1.26@1583 166fsb. Would not suggest over 1.75v for anything but simple benchmarking.

Nice scores.

I aint signing nothing!!!
February 21, 2003 12:29:33 AM

As for costs, my CPU was £100 and the memory £77.

In total, that would normally be the price of the CPU online. So I figure I've gained.

I may have spent the same cash on an XP1800+, some DDR and would have <b>had</b> to have settled for a mobo for around £60. Really just the K7S5A or MSI stuff.

Then I would have needed a 400W PSU to deal with that issue, so the price is actually worth it. Not to mention the fact that I have an ATA-100 RAID mobo. Naw, I'm happy with this setup (assuming it doesn't blow :smile: ) for a while. Eventually I'll get myself a 2-3GHz CPU when the prices make it the bottom of the range. Depends on mobo/mem prices too.

Right now, my priorities are on 2 x 80GB JBs, and a new monitor.

Oh. Anyone recommend a gfx card which wouldn't be wasted in this system. Nothing too expensive, nothing too crap. I have a 64MB Radeon, but plan to either shove it into the PIII GHz system, or sell it.

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 21, 2003 12:32:54 AM

I'll keep my eye on things. I have a feeling that my Aopen 300W PSU may be feeling the strain. Dunno. Shouldn't be, but then it wasn't designed for taking on all the kit I'm gonna be using.

If I get any more probs, I'll up the voltage to 1.525 or maybe 1.55, but I'll not try any higher. I'd rather run the thing at 143MHz (1500Mhz) than burn the CPU. We'll see.

Maybe I'll look to splashing out on an Antec Truepower PSU. 430W should do. :smile:

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 21, 2003 1:25:59 AM

gah, i'm starting to think Antec isn't truly the best out there, I had no luck at all using my Antec Truepower 430 watter

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...
February 21, 2003 1:41:34 AM

Don't tell me Antec is up to their old game with overrated power supplies! I was thinking about getting one of those Truepower PSUs.

Maybe I'll get the Thermalright PSU with the built in line conditioner. Now, where is that review?...

My Enermax 330 watter was at it's limits but then I replaced the Tbird @1.5 with a Tbred B at 2.1 and the Enermax seems to have calmed down. 5V rail doesn't drop to 4.6 V any more. Around 4.8 V at heavy draw.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
February 21, 2003 2:01:25 AM

I'm not doubting it, and Crashman seems to think so too. If you're thinking of Thermalright, then you might as well look for one from Channelwell technology, they're the ones that build the PSU's for Thermaltake. Enermax 330 watter already at it's limit? That's a new one, didn't think you'd max out that low. My best PSU's in honest have been Enlight, surprisingly, it's let me max out my Thouroughbred B.

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...
February 21, 2003 2:09:11 AM

Money is the issue with me as well. A year ago I gave my old KT133 rig to my nephew. I had some good PC150 memory so I bought myself a KT133A mobo. Now I wish I had sprung for a DDR rig. (Though, DDR was pretty expensive last year).

Anyway I have an outdated mobo, some good memory, and the only sound cards I have are ISA. So for now I jam in an XP 1700+ and overclock it to 2100 Mhz. Cost me $53 USD and I end up with a CPU that is a lot cooler, about 8 degrees. Which means I'll be able to make it a lot quieter and that alone will be worth the $53.

The extra horsepower (2.1 ghz vs 1.5) is barely noticeble. My gaming benchmarks didn't improve much although the gaming experience did. Average framerates obviously aren't much better but minimum framerates must be because games are noticebly smoother. I'll have do some Serious Sam benchmarks which calculates minimums. Hopefully I saved my Tbird scores so I can compare.

I'm curious. How much performance do you gain from two drives in RAID 0 configuration? Is it really worth giving up half of the potential storage?

A Radeon 8500LE/9100 would be pretty decent for that rig of yours. I replaced a Geforce 2 GTS with a Radeon 8500 and 3DMarks went from 4500ish to 8000. That's with a Tbird @1.5. Your Tully rig shouldn't be much different.

I can't figure out if it's the SDR SDRAM or the Radeon 8500 that's limiting me though. I expected bigger gains than I got with the Tbred B @2.1.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
February 21, 2003 2:34:32 AM

Oops, I meant Thermaltake.

The things that were holding me back from getting a TruePower were some comments that a reviewer made.

Even though it tested well he was concerned that the fan ran so slowly and that such hot air was coming out the exhaust. He also thought the thermal control of the fan was curved wrong. Of course, then he went on to say it was the best power supply he ever tested. However, the comments stuck in my mind and then there were all the complaints about earlier model PSU's.

Part of the problem with this Enermax is that the 5 Volt rail is a little low to begin with. It's at about 4.91 V with virtually no load. Stick in a Tbird 1.0 overclocked to 1.5 at a lofty 1.90 volt with temps reaching 50 degrees and your looking at one power hungry CPU. Would not be surprised if it drew 100 watts.

Anyway, the power supply hangs in there down to about 4.65 volt. Below that things become unstable.

I don't think the issue is affecting my Tbred B overclock. The Vcore readings seem fine. I can get to 2.1 ghz at 1.75 volt but even 2.0 volt won't let me get any further. I can increase vCore even higher but I don't want to try it with air cooling. The 5 volt rail still drops but not as far as before.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
February 21, 2003 3:21:32 AM

Quote:
I've run between1.65v to 1.75v for over 6 months now. P3 1.26@1583 166fsb. Would not suggest over 1.75v for anything but simple benchmarking.

Agreed.

At 1.75v you have a good chance of getting up to 1.74ghz (166FSB) if you've got good memory.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
February 21, 2003 3:31:39 AM

That too, but most power supplies I have don't really put out much exhaust air anyway. Just a very small flow of hot air. Oddly, it wasn't bad, just not the most stable or highly rated power supply i've used. Does the Enermax have the little rheostats to up the voltage? I know some of the higher end ones allow you to bump it up a bit manually. Tbirds are very heavily volted and watted processors. Still, I do think my Enlight may be holding back my stability. I can do about 8 hours of 3d mark 2001 without any crashes, and never hard lock. Just about all other programs and games run well too. It's probably not going to affect how high you get, just the stability in the end.

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...
February 21, 2003 3:32:15 AM

Tuallies death sensitive to high voltage I take it?

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...
February 21, 2003 4:26:18 AM

Well this session probably isn't going to last long. I've got the Tbred up to 2250 but it needed 2.15 volt. Temp is up to 51 degrees and climbing.

The Enermax has always put out slightly warm air, just barely above that coming out the one additional exhaust fan.

Nope, no trim pots. They were added to Enermax PSUs after the EG-351VE (mine).

Not that I know a lot about power supplies but what I see from mine I really don't understand. As the 5 volt rail drops the 12 volt rail rises. 5 V is now at 4.63 V and 12 V is at 12.6 V. The 3.3 volt rail always holds steady.

I always thought that the 5 V and 3.3 V rails are linked and that the 12 V rail is independent but it doesn't seem the case. There is some kind of push-pull going on.

I think I better shutdown. My heatsink doesn't seem to be able to cope.

I think this Tbred needs better cooling than I have.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 21, 2003 5:49:14 AM

The lowest voltage I've heard of "sudden death" occuring at was 1.75v. But that's rare. And anything below 1.75v should be fine. I run mine at 1.60v, 1.2@1466. I'd go higher, but my memory can't take it for more than a few seconds. I can get 1650MHz at 1.90v...just to boot to the POST screen. Thinking 1.70v might give me 1540MHz or more, if I could find better memory.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
February 21, 2003 10:12:15 AM

What CPU are you overclocking?

Doesn't sound like a 1.4, or you don't have PC-150....

Anyway, the memory I'm using is Crucial PC-133 'guaranteed' to work at 150MHz. I'll not push above that. I want a stable system after all. Like I said before, if I need to, I'll push the voltage to 1.55, but I think my PSU may be feeling the strain. It certainly will once I've taken the two systems and swapped about the parts to have one bare bones server and one 'all singing and dancing' system.

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 21, 2003 10:17:53 AM

Re-read it....1.2

I'd be delighted with 163MHz out of my one. That would be 1711MHz.

At 171MHz I'd be at almost 1800MHz!!!

That's insane! That's almost a 33% overclock on a CPU which is at the top end of it's core.

Naw. Not for the faint hearted amateurs like me. :wink:



<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 21, 2003 10:28:38 AM

Here's another little Q.

1400 @1575 (133 @ 150) = 12.5%

So 12.5% of 1.45V = 0.18125 added to 1.45 = 1.63125

So 1.625 or 1.65 should be the sweet spot. Or is it more trial and error than simple logic?

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 21, 2003 2:20:11 PM

Interesting theory. I was thinking no way, but ran the math on my systems numbers, and oddly enough that's exactly how mine is. Hmmm...I've never heard that one before.
February 21, 2003 2:40:47 PM

I reckon the theory is bunkum.

Svol tells me his system is far greater overclocked than his voltage.

"I did a 33% OC with a P3 700Mhz and increased the Vcore just 0.1V above the original 1.7V
According to what you're saying I should have raised it up to 2.3V."

So that's that. :smile:

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">My System Specs</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 21, 2003 3:59:08 PM

The voltage each chip needs to hit a certain speed varies. It can depend on the stepping, the week manufactured, and of course the location on the wafer which it came from. Cores that come from the middle of the wafer tend to overclock higher with less voltage then those from the edges.

My week 29 tB1 1.2 (default 1.5v):
- does 1600 @ 1.50v
- does 1650 @ 1.60v
- does 1700 @ 1.70v
- does 1740 @ 1.75v

I've run it at 1.85v (maximum supported by VRM 8.5) for a while (1.87v reported) but it doesn't help. I think I'm being held back by my memory (64mb PC100 CL2 @ 145mhz 3/3/3/7/9).

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
February 21, 2003 4:39:47 PM

No, but it's not in a case at the moment either - just on a motherboard tray. Ambient temp is around 18~19C. Runs at 33C idle 37C loaded with an old heatsink and fan off a Tbird-900.

Right now it consists of:
- Celeron 1.2 tB1 week 29 (and I have a week 32 to try later)
- Asus TUSL2-C (i815)
- 64mb micron PC100 CL2
- Dlink 530TX NIC
- SB 16
- ATI Mach 64 4mb (PCI)
- 5gb Quantum Fireball ATA-33

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 21, 2003 4:58:02 PM

OK, first of all, forgive my typo, now for more information:

I'm running a Celeron 1.1@1466. Once again, sorry about the typo. I bought this 1.1 after being frustated in my efforts to get a 1.2 to 1600.

I also use the high quality Crucial PC133 Cas2. But on my board, it won't run at Cas2 at anything beyond 135MHz. This is probably due to the fact I use a BX chipset and my board uses ultra-fast memory timings.

My i815 boards allowed me to run my memory at Cas2 up to 145MHz, and at Cas3 at over 150MHz. But the memory performance of my i815 boards couldn't match that of my BX, clock for clock.

I can run 150MHz at Cas3 with my BX for testing purposes only, the memory overheats at this speed.

Thinking of switching to a less agressive BX board, I have others that don't experience this phenomena, but can't match the performance of this board at 133MHz. Close enough that the extra bus speed might still be prefered. Really wishing I had some top quality PC150 right about now.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
February 21, 2003 7:08:57 PM

The i815 has 1/4 PCI and 1/2 AGP dividers so at 145FSB that is only ~36PCI (and ~73AGP if/when I get an AGP card). Any half-decent PCI card will do ~40mhz, and most will do ~45mhz. Most AGP cards will do 84mhz.

Good quality overclocking oriented i815 boards (Asus TUSL2-C & Abit ST6) will do 166FSB (42PCI, 83AGP) if you can get memory that will handle it. 166FSB is about the top for the TUSL2-C but a few people at overclockers.com run their ST6s up to 180FSB.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
February 21, 2003 7:16:44 PM

BTW: Over at overclockers.com ol' man runs his PIII-S-1400 @1690mhz (161FSB) at 1.65v.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
February 21, 2003 7:18:35 PM

What do you guys pay for PC-150?

I can get <A HREF="http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/memory/kingmax/k..." target="_new">256mb of Kingmax PC-150</A> (TinyBGA packaging, 3.6v max) for CDN$78 = ~US$50.

Lol, that VIA board in the review has pretty crappy memory scores.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JCLW on 02/21/03 04:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 21, 2003 8:28:06 PM

I had no problems running my SA6R at 174MHz bus speed, using the 133/100 CPU/RAM ratio to keep my memory speed down. It got my PIII 1000EB to 1307MHz, and that was on a Coppermine core!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 21, 2003 8:29:56 PM

That's simply because DDR memory came into the spotlight before high speed SDR memory had a chance. There was even a company that made PC175 for a few minutes before the switch.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
February 21, 2003 11:02:43 PM

Oh HO!!!

PC-175?

I'll have to keep an eye out for that!

:wink:

ach, I doubt if I'd get much more out of this <b>and</b> keep stability. Maybe take it to 153FSB for the 1600 mark. With PC-175 you could happily pop up to 162 (1700MHz)!!!, but I would assume your PCI bus would go belly up at 160+

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">Nice sig 81.</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 22, 2003 12:09:03 AM

With PC175 I could happily run at 150MHz with all the fastest timings on my current board. You have to remember that this thing is a little too fast to run your typical PC150 at it's highest "rated" timings.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
February 22, 2003 12:49:04 AM

Well at the moment I'm running at CAS 2, but to be honest I've not bothered with the other 2/3 settings. I never seem to have the kit to let em sit happily on 2. Maybe I'll give em a whirl...

As for the 5/7 or 7/9 setting, I assume that should be at 7/9 when overclocking? Or is it optional depending on stability?

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">Nice sig 81.</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 22, 2003 12:56:13 AM

WTF is that? Do you have divine powers or something?
February 22, 2003 2:50:50 AM

The DCT (DRAM cycle time - 5/7 or 7/9) specifies the minimum amount of time that a memory page must remain open before being closed and opened again. The shorter it is, the faster the data is written into the memory.

Also set:
1- DPCP (DRAM page closing policy) to "One bank" for optimal performance. Setting it to "All banks" will slow down your memory by about 5%.
2- "SM always bypass" to "Enabled"
3- "CPC (Command per clock) mask" to "Disabled"
(if you can)


*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 22, 2003 3:22:20 AM

JCLW gave you the fastest settings, use the slower ones if needed for stability.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
February 22, 2003 10:50:31 AM

Good link. Nice to hear I'm not the only one breaking parts here. When I installed the last CPU (1.2GHz) Celeron, I managed to break off half of the securing tab on the socket.

Now when I was pressing the HSF onto the socket with the latest CPU (I was told by the guy that sold me it (CoolerMaster BTW) that I had to bend out the locking bracket to get it onto the tab) amd using a screw driver to push down the bracket...[PING] That's the screwdriver snapped off the bits it sits into. Aw well...used a nail puller (thing in a 'V' shape) to finish the job. Needless to say, that CPU is never coming off that mobo again. :smile:

That guy gets good scores, but it's not with the ST6 mobo. He killed it. I'll go for the aggressive settings (don't have all the ones mentioned above, unless that's hidden BIOS) and prolly take the thing up to 1600MHz.

Anyone know of a hidden BIOS and the way to it on the ST6-R?

<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">Nice sig 81.</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 22, 2003 3:48:38 PM

I only know of hacked BIOSes for the TUSL2-C. Asus disables aggresive memory timmings and AGP 4x above ~142FSB (depending on BIOS version) so people hack them to re-enable all the memory options.

To my knowledge the ST6 doesn't disable anything above any speeds so nobody hacks the BIOSes. You might find a hacked BIOS with added stepping microcode but I think the latest Abit BIOS has the microcode for the tB1 stepping (newest intel s370 chip, CPUid 6B4).

BTW: The Volcano 7+ is a good s370 heatsink that clips to all three lugs on each side of the socket.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JCLW on 02/22/03 12:51 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
February 23, 2003 1:02:03 AM

I run a modded bios on a TUSL2-C. But I also have a program that forces AGP 4X and 4/way interleave on the memory at high bus speeds on the I815 chipset.If you want to try it let me know where to send.

I aint signing nothing!!!
February 23, 2003 2:32:46 AM

Many thanks.

I'm not aware of a 4-way interleave setting on the ST6-R. I assume it's never on, or always on?

Right now I have a Rage Fury in the box, so it's AGP2x. My Radeon seems to handle 2/3 AGP on the BX mobo at 133MHz, so I guess it can handle the 1/2 of 150MHz.

BTW folks, at 153MHz the PC works. Had to lift the voltage to 1.55V, but it works. Problem is on restarts the PC falls over. "BIOS checksum error"

Imagine my horror!

Anyway, the CMOS Jumper fixes it and then I can crank the settings back up. Then it falls over again. So it's back to 150FSB for me. Temps are fine. Couple of questions...

What's causing the errors?

PC-133 guarranteed at 150FSB?
PCI? (at 153MHz it's at 38.25)
Or is the BIOS really fvcked?

If it <b>is</b> the BIOS, will a flash to a newer revision make any difference or is it an RMA job?


<b><font color=blue>~ <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new">Nice sig 81.</A> ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
February 23, 2003 3:15:17 PM

Flash to the latest version anyways.

But if it works fine at 150 but not 153 then it's something else.

What's your I/O voltage running at? I don't think you can raise it above 3.3v (the default) on the ST6s.

Try setting the memory to 3/3/3/7/9 to see if that helps.

Raising the CPU vCore may help as well. 1.55v isn't high for a Tualatin core - the tB1 stepping has 1.50v for a standard voltage. I'd suggest trying 1.60 & 1.65v.

I take it you've got your FSB ratios at 4:4:1.

Since ST6s are generally good to about 180FSB it's probably your memory or your CPU. The PCI and AGP speeds should be fine up to about 166FSB, as long as you've got half decent cards in there.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
!