CPU Cooling

[phill21]

i am wondering what to do with fans and a new cpu..
i have been hearing that the newer xps (2600 and above) where running about the mid 20's to early 30's degrees c.. is this a good thing? i know it will depend on what fan etc theres on there, but is that right? or am i hearing crap?
as im looking to upgrade, im looking to 'jump' from a xp1800 to a barton 3000 or just the xp2600.. im not yet sure as of yet.. what would anyone recommend as to a fan and heat sink combo as to keep it nice and cool?
i have been looking at <A HREF="http://www.spirecoolers.com" target="_new"> at this </A> and there seems to me that there are a few good fans there..
im not sure on prices etc, but i always like to think that if i spend more to get something better, then it must cost more for a reason..
any advice would be great to have and to hear.. i await your comments..

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[Lonemagi]

Ive heard good things on spire coolers. If you look on the main site here, Tom did a comparison of air coolers. As for 20 - 30c's Ive seen more like 30 - 40c's on air cooling. I would also say for the athlon, go with a kt400 or nforce 2 board that can support 333fsb, and go with a 2600, 2700 or 2800. Then when the prce goes down, and you need the extra oompf, get a barton.

And if you are not gonna OC, then keep with the stock heatsink! They come with the retail athlon cpu's because AMD has approved them. I doubt they would ship their own cpu with a shi77y heatsink and ruin a reputation. No need to go overboard and buy a really expensive hsf unless you are ocing or its hot where you are and you have no stability.

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<font color=red>
*edit* nforce 2 board that supports 333fsb, not 33fsb lol!
</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Lonemagi on 02/21/03 01:18 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[phill21]

i think i have made up my mind as to stick with amd, but im really thinking of getting the 3000+ barton anyway, or if a faster one is there and the price isnt too high, i might consider it..
well, im only going on what they are telling me, although from my own tests at home, very rough ones at that!!, with the heat sink that my girl friends son has and her heat sink, they arent getting above 42c in the bios after an hour or so.. i feel this is a good thing!! is it?
i think im going for the nforce 2 board, but which one would you recommend? ive always had an abit and i feel that it could be time for a change because they arent as good as they once was.. (not judging by the reviews anyway...)
im not going to overclock, but i want something thats a little over the top because i prefer to have something more than i need than something thats just sufficent.. i just prefer it..
oh and i know what you mean about the 33fsb or should i say 333fsb !!!!

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[Lonemagi]

High end Athlons, 2600 2700 2800 and Barton, all run 166 fsb, 333ddr. "Normal" athlons, run 133 fsb, 266ddr. I accidentaly typed 33fsb the fisttime. Thats a bit slow...

And if the cpu isnt crashing then 40 c is ok for a Palimino, I ran mine at that for a while. Hit 50c at load, but still stable.

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

 

[phill21]

hasnt the barton got a bigger L2 cache as well as the 166fsb? is that not worth getting for the extra cache or not really?
my xp1800s that i have in the three pcs that i have built for my girl friends son and herself and me are all lower than 45c at idle.. and i dont think that they go above 50c when under a full load..
with the faster fsb, what type of memory would be best to get? i know this corsair stuff is good, but is it really worth the extra cash? or is there other types of memory that are near as good but a lot cheaper out there?

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[Lonemagi]

Barton has 2x the cashe, but scores lower in a few of the benches than some of the lower scored Xp tbreds. And at 600 bucks a pop, last I checked, I personaly dont think its worth it. Thats why I suggest a higer up board that can support a 3000+, it will give you room to go above when more bartons come out.

Well, when it comes to RAM, the corsair runs easily at agressive memory timings, and nforce2 boards eat that up. so twin sticks of 256 or 512 corsair will do you nicley (nforce 2 is dual ddr). Other high end memory is Geil and Mushkin, but im not sure if all of these companies make RAM, not just test and oc it.

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

 

[phill21]

as i will be doing video editing and gaming mostly one this pc, what size/speed corsair would you recommend? i was thinking 512 x 2 @ xms 3500, but is that overkill?
i think at present costs i would go for the xp2600, but as prices fall who knows what might be round the corner?
what board would you recommend to get thats nforce 2? any one make in particular?

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[svol]

PC3500 memory is nice if you want to OC very high and want memory that can fit in a next year DDR system.
The absolute top OC mobo with the nForce2 is the Epox 8RDA+.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dimms when I turn it on

 

[phill21]

as for the memory i feel that it makes more sense spending more on the memory and having it so it will last rather than keep having to upgrade that every time as well.
i was reading a review on the epox board, it seems very nice.. wonder what its like?

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[Teq]

Hi Phill,
To answer your question about fans...

First, cooler is always better. Heat is the enemy of solid state electronics. Get it too hot and something's gonna melt. On AMD the self-destruct point is 85c or 90c depending on the chip. I always try to keep them under 50c and sometimes that does require an aftermarket Cooler.

The coolers that come with AMD chips are marginal at best. On the rare occasions when I've used them, the temps have been in the high 50s and sometimes into the 70s (under heavy load).

From what I can tell (in my admittedly unscientific investigations) Spire and Thermaltake are the two best brands to use. I use the Spire Rock (<A HREF="http://www.spirecooler.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=3" target="_new">http://www.spirecooler.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=3</A>) up to xp2000+ but beyond that a copper bottomed (or all-copper) heat sink seems to do a better job in which case I usually put on a Volcano 7+ (<A HREF="http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v7plus.htm" target="_new">http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v7plus.htm</A>)

I also never use the stock "rubber stuff" cooling pads on any cooler. I clean it off and put on a good quality heat sink grease like Arctic silver or the stuff Radio Shack sells. In the CPU board "Thermal Compounds" thread I wrote a description of how I prepare a HSF and CPU for installation. You may want to look up that message and you may also want to look at the instructions from Arctic Silver which are also very good (<A HREF="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm" target="_new">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm</A>).

Finally... all these heat sinks have a step on the bottom. This is clearance for the header of the ZIF socket. Be extremely careful that you don't install the HSF backwards as that can do serious damage to your CPU, motherboard and power supply.

Hope this helps ....



<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[phill21]

well i know about it being the cooler the better, this is why im rather worried as to what i should be doing to keep all my cpus as cool as possible. i dont want a whirl wind in my case, but i do want a nice amount of air going through it.
i never liked the coolers that i got with my amd cpus hence, why i dont use them!!
i have a thermaltake volcano 7+ and that blew a cpu, motherboard and memory of mine (god knows how) and when i said about it to my local pc place (not pc world ) they said the design was pants.. but when they modified it, it fitted and was fine. although i did a test on both my girl friends machine and her sons (both the same) and the spire cooler, was 1degree c better off than the volcano, admittedly this was at a medium setting.
to be honest, i dont see much good in the thermaltake heatsink.. didnt seem to make much of a difference to me or my cpu temperatures.
i dont use the stuff on the bottom either, thats a complete waste of time..
i have been looking at the alpha pal8045 (i think thats the model) heat sink, its about £35, but its meant to be one of the best about.. at best my cpu idles at 39 and at full load its reading just into 45 degrees c.
i just need to know what fan to put with it to keep the noise down, but enough to cool it more than enough, although i believe the heat sink will help..
at the local pc shop i go to, i will try one of the spire fans that they do, i think its this one..

Spire SPA07B2 MicroFlow II or
Spire 5F271B1L3 FalconRock 1 or 2 (1 has a faster fan, 2 has a slower one)

and they say that they get about 25 to 30 degrees at idle or maybe a little higher for 100% load, im not sure. but i will look at those before doing anything to much. although i have to get a better case, i really dont want to have a crap case with lots of good stuff in it!
thank you very much for all the help! very much appreaited!!

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[Teq]

Hi Phill,
There is a very telling spec that most HSF companies don't give you... "Thermal Resistance". This is rated in degrees per watt. The question is: "how much does the temperature of your cooled object go up for each watt of applied power?"

At a TR of 1, applying 50 watts of thermal energy would raise the temperature of the object 50 degrees. At .5 it would only go up 25 degrees. So the smaller the number the better.

A probable clue to your results can be obtained by comparing the thermal resistence of the heat sinks and calculating the likely operating temperature as:

(CPU power X Thermal Resistance) + Temperature in case == CPU Temp.

Of course the TR can vary according to thermal compounds used, cleanliness, and several other factors, so this is only an approximation.

Spire gives the TR spec. directly. Thermaltake gives you a chart in their detailed specs, showing the temperature rise vs power. It's a fairly simple matter to back-calculate thermal resistance. (Temp/Power == TR)

FWIW... I've put quite a vew unmodified volcano HSFs on various computers and never yet had a problem.


Anyway... Good luck with this... it sure can get confusing.

(Note: Post edited to correct temperature calculation)


<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[phill21]

I have noticed with spire, that the thermal resistance is about 0.5 sometimes it did vary to 0.35 (i think) depending on fan etc. i must admit, it was something that i wasnt sure on, but i did notice it there.
im not sure what it was with the fan from thermaltake, but it certainly didnt work as well as it should have!!
im sure an idication is better than nothing, at least that way it gives you a rough idea of what it will cool like. also, does it matter with regards to the fan used?
i know the higher the speed doesnt always mean the better the cooling, but what cfm would be best to tame down the heat from one of the newer xp chips? arent they coming up to about 80 watts now? that is a heck of a lot isnt it?
well like i said again, thank you so much for your help!!
you are right it does get a little confusing at times!!!

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[LtBlue14]

i dont use the stuff on the bottom either, thats a complete waste of time..

you mean thermal paste?
or bottom of the line hsfs?

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[phill21]

yes it the thermal paste that they stick on!!

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

 

[Teq]

Naaa.. not the thermal paste... that silly rubber pad that the manufacturers put on their heatsinks.

The problem is simple... there's something holding those pads in place. No matter how good the rubbery stuff may be the adhesive gum is still between the cooler and cpu...

I always use scrape that rubbery gunk off, clean the heat sink with alcohol and put on thermal grease.


<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>