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Is it acceptable to use one disk to play simultaneously with...

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November 9, 2012 1:13:19 AM

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November 9, 2012 4:53:36 AM

So what's stopping you from giving the ripped music to 10 friends. What stops your brothers from giving the ripped music to 10 friends each? What about those 30 friends (assuming you have two brothers) what's stopping them from giving 10 more friends each? At that point you would have bought 1 CD and not too long later 333 people (including yourself) now have digital copies of the music. Is that fair to the musicians?

Same can be said about pirating games. Where does it end? When does it end? When there are no more game developers because they are not getting paid any money from all the pirating that's going on?
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November 9, 2012 7:17:38 AM

if it connects to a server and validates the key then you wont be able to play via lan. some games will also have a routine that will stop you playing a game via lan if both have the same key.
as for it being legal. going by the eula then no. but by e.u law yes. reason being is you own the game under e.u law but your hiring the game going by the eula.
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November 9, 2012 3:55:29 PM

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November 9, 2012 4:00:32 PM

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November 9, 2012 4:06:22 PM

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November 9, 2012 4:09:47 PM

Think of it like when you buy 1 copy of a game you can use it on 1 computer at a time.You can have 2 computers and have the game installed on both but by law you can't use no-cd crack because the no-cd crack is interfering with the software and both the maker and uses are in violation of law.
The music cds/dvd you can rip to mp3/mp4 but you have to own the original copy and you cannot give the files to anyone less even for free.You rip music to a usb pen drive and listen to music on your car but if the police pulls you over they might take away you usb pen and give you 24-48h to show up on the police station with the original disks or you get a ticket or even jail.They will take note of the serial number on the CD/Dvds and if you get caught again with the same music they already know it is your because it stays on record.
Now if you give them to your brother and he gets caught after you,when he would go to the police with the cd/dvd they would know that that specific cd belongs to another person a.k.a. already registered.Now 1 of 2 things can happen a) your brother pays the ticket b) they find out that he is your brother and both of you are dead meat.
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November 9, 2012 5:04:16 PM

i totally believe that what laws are in place are right. how would you feel if you worked really hard on something and expected to sell lets say 1 million copies at least to break even with production costs but you only returned 750,000 sales and this put you in the hole and puts your company into bankruptcy all because that 25% could pay for the product but decided they wanted to pirate it instead.

now i have shared games between me and my siblings before, as well as music, im no saint when it comes to this, but if i get caught doing it then i will take it. mind you i never hear of this actually come down to it and it being severe anyway on such a small scale of sharing copyright material.

as for the unlimited price you spoke about, I don't believe that will work, unless it is household licensing only, which would keep within the guidlines of the EULA or the license if you dont give the license or copyright metrial to anyone who you do not live with. But the reason companies dont do this is because they know the average consumer if they own 2, 3 or more consoles and TV's in a home with more children who play these consoles (using gaming as example), they will end up buying each child a game if they all want to play together or keep them from fighting over one disc.

in the end i believe any developer has the right to what they will allow their buyers to do with it to an extent
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November 9, 2012 5:27:11 PM

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November 10, 2012 1:22:38 AM

un4gettable47 said:
What you have just suggested would be pirating by direct distribution. There is nothing stopping all of us from doing that right now except a few cracks and keygens? The scenarios explained in my new post above explained how family sharing and maybe even sharing with your close friends should be legal. Yes, maybe there would be a limit on the number of friends and non-immediate family members you can legally share with (or even none at all). Stop defending in-justice.


Like the in-justice you are inflicting on the developers / musicians who put in a lot of time and effort into producing something that is supposed to make them money? How would you like it if you made some developed a game or wrote a song and while you have have sold 2,000 copies, there are 10,000 copies floating out there on the web or someone's PC?
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November 10, 2012 3:46:29 AM

I assume you will keep posting non-sense until someone agrees with you?
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November 10, 2012 4:01:20 AM

Sorry, I don't read gibberish...
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November 10, 2012 2:52:31 PM

the rules on sharing may seem rediculous but they are the rules... like em or not.
if you buy 1 copy you own 1 copy. you were allowed to make 1 backup copy for your personal use but even now i think that law has been changed. instead your supposed to contact the manufacturer and they will for a nominal fee (ie the cost of a cd with post and packing) send you a replacement if the original is damaged.
as far as i know the copyright law says you cannot copy any digital media to another device if its not for personal use unless you have written permission from the copyright holder... ie you cant make a copy and let your brother use it even in the same house on the same console/pc.
the cd key is yours and yours alone... like i say you may find them odd and none sensical but they arte the laws of the land...

while i agree with your sentiments they are just that. like i say you may not like the law but that is the law... its up to you whether you abide by it.
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November 10, 2012 3:04:23 PM

Keep in mind, the laws are what they are because of people abusing the hell out of them.

It used to be that bands would tour to promote their CD as a way to make money. Now it seems to be the opposite. They make almost no money on music sold, and they make a living doing live concerts. Ever wonder why talent has taken a nose dive in the industry? Pirating played a huge part. You have to put on a good live show to make it now.
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November 10, 2012 3:09:41 PM

As everyone has tried to explain -- when you buy the content you purchase the right to use 1 copy of that content at any given time -- so yes you can install it or copy it to several different places as long as you only use 1 copy of the content at any given time !! If you want to use multiple copies at the same time you need to buy either multiple single use copies in the amount of the maximum number that will be in use at any given time or purchase a multiple user license that allows that number of concurrent users.

This is the case with everything you mention including Music -- IF you as you say give a copy to your brother to use and he plays it at the same time you are playing the copy you purchased you are illegally using the purchase and are pirating the material (if he only uses the copy during times you are not using it then it would be legal as it is only in use by one person and you purchased the one license to use it !) That is how it works and always has been so no amount of trying to convince others that what you are doing is right is not going to make it so !!
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November 10, 2012 3:34:29 PM

jaguarskx said:
Sorry, I don't read gibberish...


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November 10, 2012 5:17:21 PM

un4gettable47mike said:

So this all falls back down to a simple CD. In no way am I going to let someone tell me it is illegal to let my father put one of my CD's onto his ipod. And if that is the way I think when it comes to measly music, why should I think any different when it comes to a DVD, an older game or some software. It actually says on the CD do not LEND "WOW". So does anyone lend CD's or DVD's and or let their wife, brother, sister, family put a CD on there itunes? These ridiculous laws and prices are why the stuff isn't selling as it should.


And this shows your willingness still to Pirate or illegally use digital content and is just as bad as you did in the past with torrenting things that you never bought -- and is just as "morally corrupt" as those that continue to Pirate material, so just shows you have not changed your opinion on things as much as you are trying to convince everyone that you have. So by starting this thread you are merely trying to get others to concur, so that you can somehow feel less immoral about the decision you have made and somehow justify your actions -- and in my opinion this type of person is even worse than those that openly pirate things and at least do not try to convince others that what they are willing to do is wrong and are willing to accept it for what it is !
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November 10, 2012 5:34:09 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
lol, if you couldn't tell. I haven't made my decision yet on what I will do and to what extent. Yikes...

And I know what you mean by I am worse than those who pirate the crap out of everything. But I am only looking to get some answers explaining where I should draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not. I would like some opinions on where you guys draw the line. Do you let family members put a CD on their itunes... and go up from there. Thanks.


The line is simple -- you know what the manufacturer\distributor of the content gave you permission to do when you obtained the license and you either follow it or you don't -- there is no gray area where breaking the agreement for one reason is more acceptable than breaking it for some other reason and there is no amount of approval of others on the reason you decide to break the agreement that makes it any more or less justifiable.
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November 10, 2012 6:16:19 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
May I also point out that it is possible that you may be in the wrong also, because you are looking down on others that don't look at things the way you do (making you the worst of all). Much like certain Christians who look down on everyone and even other Christians; that don't believe/do the things that they do.


Breaking the law is wrong, period. There is no gray area. Whether you feel justified in doing so or not, does not change the law.

If you want justification for doing so, go somewhere else. I bet you'll find a lot of people who agree with you at piratebay.
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November 10, 2012 6:28:20 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
May I also point out that it is possible that you may be in the wrong also, because you are looking down on others that don't look at things the way you do (making you the worst of all). Much like certain Christians who look down on everyone and even other Christians; that don't believe/do the things that they do.


Don't see it - since I never mentioned whether or not I personally agree or disagree with the license conditions or whether I follow them or not - I merely told you that according to the agreement you entered when you purchased the license you purchased a license to use a single instance of the program at a time and thus using it for multiple uses was not acceptable under that license -- whether you personally decide to break that agreement and\or feel justified in doing so is completely your decision to make and no one else can justify it for you - so my opinion or the opinion of any one else has no relevance and can not change the terms that you agreed to and justify whether you abide by those terms or not.
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November 10, 2012 7:31:02 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
People on on the piratebay.se upload full content for millions of people they don't know (making it so that millions of sales are lost). The people don't have to own the content or even have any relation to the person they are getting it from. I am against that, even after taking part in it previously. Neways... The only message I have got from the few people in this thread is that they want you to do exactly as the rules entail (even if it means not letting your little brother put your CD onto his itunes; which I think is partially ignorant). So I will have to take your opinions into consideration. But you must also take my opinions into consideration to avoid being completely pig-headed as well. Please end this thread.


First off uploading it where others have access to it does not necessarily mean lost sales (as many of those that gain access this way may still purchase it or would never of purchased it in the first place !) but that is another topic for debate and still does not alter the fact that whether the content is distributed to one person or millions has no relevance -- sharing it with even one is still breaking the agreement you entered, same as sharing it with millions is - one is no better or worse than the other. Trying to justify breaking the agreement for one reason or another still does not change the fact you are breaking the agreement.

The fact that others decide they want to do it doesn't make it any more or less wrong in the end and only you can make the decision on whether it is something you want to do - looking for others to agree or disagree with your decision doesn't justify the decision or make it any more right or wrong !
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November 10, 2012 7:40:06 PM

A couple weeks ago, there was an article on the front page of someone who made copies of a porno film and shared it with 10 of his buddies. One of them uploaded it to a torrent site. They tracked the key and found the original owner of the video and sued him for $160,000 per copy, which is the maximum the law allows for pirating. He lost and was fined $1.6 million dollars. Of course he didn't show up to court, making it an auto loss.

These pirating cases are big losses if you are caught.
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November 10, 2012 7:43:38 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
I don't want to be about blindly following the law, I want to be about doing what is right and makes sense. If the laws don't make sense, I would like to find out the truth and learn what I should live by. Please end this thread.


Revised message above before you replied. K bye.


If you don't want to follow the agreement then the "Right" thing to do would be to not use the product or talk to the person you are entering the agreement with and adjust the terms of the agreement before accepting the agreement - entering into an agreement with the intention to break it because you do not agree with the conditions is never the "Right" thing to do no matter how you try to justify it !!
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November 10, 2012 7:58:14 PM

bystander said:
A couple weeks ago, there was an article on the front page of someone who made copies of a porno film and shared it with 10 of his buddies. One of them uploaded it to a torrent site. They tracked the key and found the original owner of the video and sued him for $160,000 per copy, which is the maximum the law allows for pirating. He lost and was fined $1.6 million dollars. Of course he didn't show up to court, making it an auto loss.

These pirating cases are big losses if you are caught.


Was it the following story?

http://www.dailydot.com/news/man-fined-million-pirating...
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November 10, 2012 8:04:22 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
I don't want to be about blindly following the law, I want to be about doing what is right and makes sense. If the laws don't make sense, I would like to find out the truth and learn what I should live by. Please end this thread.


Revised message above before you replied. K bye.


Just because you do not agree with the law does not mean you are immune from being prosecuted.

If you are looking for actual legal insight, then you need to speak with a lawyer. They would likely be the individuals who would know of legal loopholes, if any.
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November 10, 2012 9:12:55 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
This is an example of piracy by direct distribution which turned into piracy through the web. Yes. So that is why the rules "would" probably be best to limit sharing to your immediate family. Close friends was just an extra idea, but could easily be misused like in this case. Mind you the person that uploaded the dvd to torrents should have been fined the maximum amount; and the person that lent his DVD should have been charged far less even though he owned the DVD (a good example of flawed laws). Neways. Is this one of those forums where someone can end the thread or not?


Nope the law was not flawed at all - because the person that uploaded it to the torrent site never agreed to the license so can not be held legally responsible for the illegal distribution (since he may not have been aware that it was not legal for him to upload as he may have never seen the license agreement !) - the only person that the company could prove had agreed to the license was the one person that originally purchased the product and had agreed to the license terms with the company and thus he was the one that was sued and found responsible for the full amount of damages.
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November 11, 2012 11:54:45 AM

The thing you are failing to realize is that there is a difference between lending someone the original media and making a copy of it and giving that to them - to lend a CD to your brother or a friend is fine as it is the original media that you paid for and there is still just the 1 copy being used at any one time (which is what you paid for in the license) - Once you start making copies of that media (whether you are ripping it to a digital format or making physical copies) you are then violating the license since now more than 1 instance of the item may\will be in use at a given time and a new license should be purchased for each copy that is in use (making a copy to store for archival purpose is fine as long as the original and the copy are not both in use at a given time) and there is a reasonable limit laid out for people in the agreement ( 1 copy per license purchased to be in use at any given time !)
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November 11, 2012 1:18:07 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
Been over this in a section far above: "You simply cannot think of it as having a squirt gun and then having to go out and buy another one if you want to play with your brother (that is what the beauty of digital software should entail)". Now just stop it. I have asked for no more replies, because it seems I am compelled to answer back >:l
- STOP EXPLAINING THINGS TO ME THAT I ALREADY UNDERSTAND.
- I UNDERSTAND, BUT DO NOT AGREE.


What is there not to agree with. It's a black and white agreement. You either follow it or not. There is nothing to dispute.
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November 11, 2012 5:36:12 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
Whatever. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe we should follow questionable laws to the tee. Or maybe you are wrong; and the rules should be stretched to what you are morally comfortable with "after truly thinking about it" (for certain situations such as this).


If you don't follow the rules or laws, you clearly are not right. There is absolutely nothing to dispute about that.

If you want to justify why you should break the law, then you have, but that does not make you right. It only gives you a reason to feel better about yourself.

Don't expect anyone who knows what right or wrong is accept that you are right. You may get people who think the law is stupid and willing to break the law with you, but that doesn't make them "right".

Break the law. I won't stop you, but be aware that there are consequences that you could face. You, and those like you, have affected the rest of us by those decisions. Don't think you are not affecting anyone.
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November 11, 2012 7:14:13 PM

un4gettable47mike said:
Well, actually I was looking to get some comments like the few above that actually have some good advice in them.


there is no advice to be given
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November 12, 2012 12:58:48 AM

There may be laws which have some gray area. Breaking a law to save someone from harm is one thing, but how can you apply that to listening to music? There is never a time where music is needed. It's simple entertainment and pirating it is simply wrong. Period, end of story.

That isn't to say there aren't laws people break every day without hesitation. I go 5 MPH over the posted speed limit quite often. If I get pulled over by a police officer, I still can be ticketed, and I would be in the wrong.

Just because something is often over looked, doesn't make it right. Just because you believe it should be free to your friends, doesn't mean it is right. If it was, a song could be purchased one time, and spread through the entire world on a single purchase. What that be fair in the slightest?

Give it up. No one is going to say you are in the right, but that doesn't stop you from doing it either. Though you should not pirate either way.
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Best solution

November 12, 2012 10:54:51 AM

I am impressed how many people give their opinion on controversial things like these not beeing fully informed. That dosent mean i am fully informed, just means i rather give an opinion than a full statement of waht i belive to be facts.

I think, to a point, this has all became to stink when everyone started acusing others of beeing imoral and thives.
There was in the 90s free music for everyone (you only had to have a friend with a dual cassete player to record from one to another), and people still bought music, and everyone still made money.
At some point, greed took over everyone, and there is too much music out there, too expensive, that more people buy than before, yet the artists get less money.

there is so much burocracy (like politicians) that live off people who actually do the job, that there is not enought money for everyone anymore.

And thats why, after about 10 years, a market that was once lucrative, becomes a sewer where the rats run from. Its human greed, and as far as i know, it knows no limits.
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